Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

FrancieBrady

BattleCorp wrote: »

If there are no extra rights to be gotten from it, why did the Travellers push so hard to be designated an ethnic minority?

You may not have noticed it but travellers are a very maligned part of our society. Generalisation and sensationalism make it very difficult for them to progress in terms of self esteem and convincing their youth not to be suspicious of the institutions of the state.
It was intended to foster inclusivness and parity of esteem. The very same things the GFA was intended to do for the community Casey came from in Derry.

Most travellers don't have their own land. Most are either squatting on other people's land or in land owned by the County Councils.

So, you think if I vote for Casey it is through ignorance?

Are all people availing of local authority housing and land - squatters?

Yes, if you base your vote on what Casey said, you are voting from an ignorant base. Simple as that really.

Bannasidhe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You know it is in the context of rights as they are understood today. god with a small g rights were contextualised largely by Christian philosophers.

Nope. They weren't.

Every society has had a system of laws which included rights and duties.
Loooong before Christianity existed.
Those rights remained fairly consistent.
Not to be murdered.
Own property.

All that made then "as we understand then" is they were broadened to include previously marginalised groups such as women, non-property owners, (ex) slaves... and most of that happened fairly recently in historical terms.
The French Revolution had more to do with rights as we understand them today than Christianity - as Christianity was well entrenched when women, non-property owners had feck all rights and slavery was in full swing.

jace_da_face

Gravelly wrote: »

BTW, in relation to the case where the families wouldn't move into the mansions built for them until they had at least two stables and a field each - this is not unusual - there is another case of a similar nature happening in Kerry at the moment (where I am told the costs for a unit for ONE family has escalated to over €1,000,000) and there is another case brewing up nicely in the midlands.

Their ethnic minority status really means they can play the race card if their demands are not met. It won’t just be descrimination they shout, it will be racism. What local council wants to be called racist?

jimgoose

gmisk wrote: »

For me 100% yes, unless you want to qualify what you are saying.
It really isnt fair to tar everyone in a diverse and wide ranging group with the same brush.

Do you know who I really feel properly sorry for? I'll tell you - people from Mullingar, that's who. They have a legitimate reason for that accent.

FrancieBrady

Gravelly wrote: »

BTW, in relation to the case where the families wouldn't move into the mansions built for them until they had at least two stables and a field each - this is not unusual - there is another case of a similar nature happening in Kerry at the moment (where I am told the costs for a unit for ONE family has escalated to over €1,000,000) and there is another case brewing up nicely in the midlands.

Point of fact again ; They are not 'mansions'.

And you might want to take a look at the problem of housing refusal in total. It isn't just a traveller issue.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=hundreds+turn+down+social+housing&oq=hundreds+turn+down+social+housing&aqs=chrome..69i57.8560j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Omackeral

Technocentral wrote: »

Alt right and After Hours keyboard warriors only ones who are voting for Casey

ThE aLt RiGhT! Get a grip ffs. A massive percentage of his supporters will have voted for SSM only a couple of years ago. When you use trash terms like alt-right, all you're doing is making a show of yourself. wah wah wah racist bigot fascist. Jesus Christ an absolute parody at this stage.


Btw, the biggest ''Keyboard Warrior'' on this thread is firmly up the hobbit's hole, just sayin'...

Technocentral

jmayo wrote: »

Technocentral wrote: »

??? Those travellers who want extra land and stables are assholes, I object to ALL travellers being tarred with the same brush, thats my problem not legitimate criticism!

If I said that over 80% of travellers are unemployed could that be used as legitimate reason to infer that as a group they are either pretty lazy or unemployable for some reasons.

What percentage does it take for one to infer that the group as a whole can be basically classed as something ?

Does it have to be 100.00 %?

I grew up in Ballymun in the 80s, 65% unemployment, employers wouldnt take you on if you used that ddress.

Gravelly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Point of fact again ; They are not 'mansions'.

And you might want to take a look at the problem of housing refusal in total. It isn't just a traveller issue.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=hundreds+turn+down+social+housing&oq=hundreds+turn+down+social+housing&aqs=chrome..69i57.8560j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Here's a little task for you - tell me of a case - ONE SINGLE CASE of any non-traveller family in Ireland, at any time in the history of the state, refusing local authority housing because they didn't get a stable. Just one will do.

Spanish Eyes

jace_da_face wrote: »

Their ethnic minority status really means they can play the race card if their demands are not met. It won’t just be descrimination they shout, it will be racism. What local council wants to be called racist?

The irony is, that if any Councillor speaks up he would more than likely be lauded by non Traveller folk for his courage in speaking out and saying what most believe.

Anyway, the time has come for those that represent us to point out that ethnic status does not confer race. Ergo one cannot be racist in criticising their nefarious grabby greedy entitled and criminal ways.

Another irony is that those Travellers who have settled down and are not criminals do not belong to the above cohort. Travellers letting other Travellers down.

Equality for all is what I say now. None of this racist rubbish, the term has become so bandied about as a response to anything (Collins of Pavee Point for example), that I for one am sick of it being used as an excuse to silence us.

gmisk

jimgoose wrote: »

Do you know who I really feel properly sorry for? I'll tell you - people from Mullingar, that's who. They have a legitimate reason for that accent.

I am originally from near Ballymena..........if you want to fell sorry for anyone with an accent I should really be near the top.

Bannasidhe

Gravelly wrote: »

You asked for an answer and got it, I have no interest in playing your goalpost moving game. Only a simpleton would compare the demand of travellers with the needs of the disabled.

If you want to google my figures go right ahead, otherwise search the links I already provided.

See, we were having a discussion where you made a claim, I made a counter claim. You made an assertion - I asked for proof.
Then you had to be rude.


Why is that?

Omackeral

FrancieBrady wrote: »

20% on the back of claims that he spoke about 'what everyone believes' would be an abject failure, both by him and those making the claim that 'everyone feels' like he does.

A jump from 1% to 20% would be an astronomical leap and you know it Michael D Jr. It would send a clear message, which is as much as anyone realistically expects.

FrancieBrady

Omackeral wrote: »

Btw, the biggest ''Keyboard Warrior'' on this thread is firmly up the hobbit's hole, just sayin'...

Did someone mention 'parody'? :D

I think that statement adequately displays the rationality of the mindsets on here.

jimgoose

gmisk wrote: »

I am originally from near Ballymena..........if you want to fell sorry for anyone with an accent I should really be near the top.

You don't have to explain to people every five minutes that you're not a Traveler, it's just the accent - do you? :pac:

PlaneSpeeking

gmisk wrote: »

I am originally from near Ballymena..........if you want to fell sorry for anyone with an accent I should really be near the top.

Not at all, you might sounds like Liam Neeson!!!!!

KevIRL

Casey odds shaved another tad from 8/15 to 1/2 in the betting w/o MDH market

Spanish Eyes

Omackeral wrote: »

A jump from 1% to 20% would be an astronomical leap and you know it Michael D Jr. It would send a clear message, which is as much as anyone realistically expects.

I think that poster's real name is Kevin

Gravelly

Bannasidhe wrote: »

See, we were having a discussion where you made a claim, I made a counter claim. You made an assertion - I asked for proof.
Then you had to be rude.


Why is that?

Not being rude, simply stating fact. Any normal person would consider it idiotic to equate travellers demanding stables and fields, with disabled people requiring ramps and wider doors.

FrancieBrady

Omackeral wrote: »

A jump from 1% to 20% would be an astronomical leap and you know it Michael D Jr. It would send a clear message, which is as much as anyone realistically expects.

Yes, it would be a massive leap. What it is not, is any proof that 'everyone thinks like Casey'. In those terms it is abject failure.

gmisk

jimgoose wrote: »

You don't have to explain to people every five minutes that you're not a Traveler, it's just the accent - do you? :pac:

Er have you been to Ballymena?




I get you

Gravelly

Another point on "traveller specific" housing. The real cost is often hidden - I know of one development where the travellers demanded a field for their horses before moving in to their new free houses. The local authority bought a large greenfield site next door to the traveller development, pretended they bought it to build social housing, and instead have left it as a field for the travellers horses.

tretorn

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Does anyone know what Traveller specific accommodation actually is, when compared with the accommodation allocated to those in need of social housing who are NOT Travellers?

I'm guessing room for a few mobiles and caravans and a few horses and a shed for the sulky trap or something.

Or maybe more mundanely they are all put together in the one development for the safety of everyone else!

The travellers want to be able to dictate who lives in the halting site, they basically wsnt to live with just their extended family and if the council dont agree the stronger travellers will destroy everything in the halting site. They will also intimidate other travellers out of the site so a vacancy is created for whoever they want.
There is nothing councils can do about this because you cant provide halting sites knowing if the mix of tenant doesnt work the vanalism cost will be huge.
This is part of the culture, intimidate everyone around you including public officials.
One poir social worker was besten up very badly in a halting site by a twenty year old male. Another was savagely attacked by a dog, he came out from under a caravan and none of the male travellers lounging nearby called him off.
Male travellers dont want the Public employees assisting female travellers to help themselves. The women belong to the men and thats the way the men want it so young male takes this all in and on and on it goes.
Bannaside and her fellow employees write up nice reports that no one reads, it gives bannaside something to do and feel virtous supporting the downtrodden, the travellers have no respect for her at all.

gmisk

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, it would be a massive leap. What it is not, is any proof that 'everyone thinks like Casey'. In those terms it is abject failure.

I do think it would show that a lot of people think he has a point or at least a degree of a point when it comes to some travellers (there lack of tax contributions and reliance on welfare), and long term people on the dole who dont need to be.


Why else would they be voting for him? what other reason would there be for the jump? its not as if he would dazzle anyone watching the debates!

I am voting for Michael D btw, but it doesnt mean I disagree totally with everything Casey has said.

gmisk

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Not at all, you might sounds like Liam Neeson!!!!!

I know big Liam Neeson (him and my dad are mates) and that aint no Ballymena accent anymore lol.

jammiedodgers

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You may not have noticed it but travellers are a very maligned part of our society. Generalisation and sensationalism make it very difficult for them to progress in terms of self esteem and convincing their youth not to be suspicious of the institutions of the state.

Any traveller I've ever had any interaction certainly wasn't lacking self esteem :pac:

weldoninhio

Technocentral wrote: »

Your side has lost, we are never going back to the reactionary right days. The future is progressive. Look at last 2 referendums.

Look at the furore over the 2004 referendum. Parties falling over themselves to try to ignore it, because of a petition with 30-40,000 signatures. The will of the people is being subverted by those that screech and wail the loudest.

It's about time this b/s was stopped and people put in their place.

Omackeral

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did someone mention 'parody'? :D

I think that statement adequately displays the rationality of the mindsets on here.

Shocked you responded to this Francois, is it a case of ''if the hat fits?'' :pac:

LiamoSail

pumpkin4life wrote: »

I was watching a video with Gran Torino and John Waters there.

I disagree with Waters on a few things, but said something very interesting about Varadker.

He said that while most politicians are driven by power (Charlie Haughey the classic Irish example), there has been a new wave of politicians who are not really interested in power but in image and being liked. Varadker is more interested in being the cool guy with all the right and trendy opinions and getting his photo taken with Trudeau and taking a picture of the restaurant he was in and uploading it on Instagram, rather than wanting a dumptruck of money and his own island, like Charlie Haughey did.

The image politician is far more dangerous than the corrupt Haughey politician because the latter needs you to be more involved in how your country properly runs and succeeds. There is no Patrick Bateman. There is no Leo Varadker. If the image is to be right, he'll be right. If the image is to be left, he'll be left.

You attack Varadker by attacking his image: that he is not the cool guy and all his opinions are bollocks. A Casey president would meltdown Varadker, because it would be a constant reminder that maybe Varadker is not as down with the lads as he once taught.

Which is hilarious, because Casey is a massive leftie himself as well. But with this one topic on Travellers, he's clearly worse than Castro and whatever mass murdering communist dictator Higgins is a fan of combined.

That's an interesting take on Varadkar. His comments on Casey are contrary to his previous comments about those who get up in the mornings, and indeed his anti welfare fraud campaigns. It'll be interesting to see where he goes from here.

Have FF made any comment on Casey? They went to the left when PBP and SF were making some headway there, so if there's votes in it for them I'd fully expect them to return far more central and in line with Casey's beliefs.

I find the idea of voting for FF repulsive, however should they adopt a Casey style rhetoric in favour of those actually bothering to work for a living, I'd vote for them, dole scroungers being one of the few more repulsive groups than Fianna F

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

A jump from 1% to 20% would be an astronomical leap. It would send a clear message.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, it would be a massive leap.

Good boy.

PlaneSpeeking

gmisk wrote: »

I know big Liam Neeson (him and my dad are mates) and that aint no Ballymena accent anymore lol.

Disappoint a girl why don't you lol!!!!!!