Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

Gravelly

jmayo wrote: »

Actually if you knew anything at all you would know that the Irish that were in Britain during the 1950s, people like my father, were always in work.
Now my father had a trade and was very employable, but the Irish were mainly working as manual labourers.
They may not have been welcome in some boarding houses or other establishments ala the famous notice in the window, but as sure as shyte they were very welcome on building sites.

Sadly the ones often employing them were other Irish, who had made it to be subbies and contractors, and they often rode them along with the pubs where they were often paid.

Also many from the West of Ireland headed over to Lincolnshire year after year to work after the summer work was done to work as tattie pickers and make some money for the winter.



I wrote about this earlier and no one picked up on it.

There are the Mickie D supporters claiming he will romp home and he has over 60% of the vote, etc.

But this all got me thinking about his actual support base.

He has the support of 4 political parties: Labour, FF, FG and PBP or one of the other leftie clowns.

But he is really a Labour man.
That is his party.

And it is the party leadership of FF, FG telling their members and supporters to vote for Higgins because they haven't bothered fielding their own candidates.

For these voters it is not the same as having one of their own to stand behind come hell or high water.
He was the best of a bad lot.

There were people, even some high ranking ones, in the two main parties who felt they should have run their own candidate.
Maybe a vote for Casey will be their way of sticking it to the party leaderships that they should have for "the party's sake" fielded a candidate.

Even as it is there would be some of the FF and FG background who were never fans of Labour (and Higgins) and they would have voted for him rather than let a shinner near the place.
A bit like giving a preference to a Labour candidate because they might be the ones to help your lads into government.
There isn't that incentive at play here.

Now some of these voters might see Casey, who they might actually agree with, as a viable alternative.
And this is especially true for rural voters.

If Higgins is relying on core Labour voters and the "more enlightened intellectuals" in FF and FG, he might not have anywhere near 60%.

So it could get very interesting.

Interesting take.

I'd say Casey will get a massive rural vote - every neighbour I've spoken to in the past week has said they are voting for him. He got lucky last time, he might not be so lucky this time around.

FrancieBrady

Gravelly wrote: »

"the stats on media presentations of travellers" ah here.

Yes, if you bothered to research them there is not a 'love-in' going on around travellers in the media. Another untruthful conspiracy theory.

Speaking of stats, did you find me those cases of non-travellers refusing houses because they didn't have stables yet?

I said I probably couldn't. Can you now comment on the links that show hundreds of refusals of various types of social housing for a variety of reasons including unsuitability (the travellers in Tipp point) that I posted that show it is a problem across the entire welfare system and not just among travellers. And vindicate Casey's reasons for targeting one community?

McMurphy

Can anyone answer this?

If Casey hadn't of been asked the question about the travellers, would any one be any the wiser of what his opinion on them was either way?

Running an election where he stood on a platform ridiculing them, I could entertain the incitement to hatred baloney.

What j see was a question asked of a presidential candidate, and a very poor hatchet job attempt on his answer.

The bigot racist and hatred accusations are a load of nonsense, but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

FrancieBrady

Gravelly wrote: »

Ah Francie.

You don't want debate, you want us all to either pretend travellers are saints, or shut our mouths. Be some bit honest.

Another out and out lie.

Which fantasy world lets you believe that somebody who continually states that 'there are issues with travellers' is contending all travellers are saints?

Just unbelievable what people will stoop to in this joint. :rolleyes:

knipex

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am expressing my opinion of what he said and how he said it and what he did next.
First of all, he targeted a community.
Secondly, he said something that is simply not true about SEMS.
Thirdly, he generalised about that community.
And Fourthly, he went to a location for a photo op, singularly designed (and successfully) to stoke anger against a community.

All the hallmarks of an incitement campaign. The results of which are all around you on this thread.

Can you please quote exactly what he said that was so offensive. I have seen multiple claims made as to what he actually said but very few of them actually reflect reality.


He said he didn't believe that travels were a separate ethnic group. (I knwo he isn't the only one that believes that or is he not allowed to express a belief that is contrary to yours ?

He said that traveler culture involved camping on other peoples land. According to travels there culture is nomadic and involves traveling. They obviously have to park up at some stage. Unless they own land all over the country they park on land that they do not own.

He said that as a community they pay less that their share of taxes. According to all the traveler groups unemployment is very high among st travels, as such they pay no income taxes as such as a group they pay far less taxes than the national average. Or is he not allowed to day that ? Can he think it ?

To be honest of the people who will vote for Casey I think only a small minority will do so because of his comments on travelers. More will do so because of his comments re the welfare state (or are those an incitement to hatred also) and as a finger in the eye to the increasingly left wing state that we have become.
There is an echo chamber liberal media, a public with an increasingly pervasive sense of entitlement and complete lack of responsibility. There is a belief that no one should ever be offended, no one should be responsible for their own action, there should be no hard and fast rules, its all exceptions and hard cases. No one can voice a thought that runs contrary to the media echo chamber and image is everything and some people are just tired of begin looked at with contempt as if we were Neanderthals. The right to free speech is dieing and the lack of tolerance among-st the so called liberal elite bears resemblance to that of totalitarian regimes. Of course there was going to be a reaction.

But ignore it all, reinterpret it as hate speech, lack of tolerance, narrow minded backwardness and look down your noses at the Neanderthals.

Omackeral

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Bearing in mind that I may come across as a husky chasing his own tail, I don't think anyone yet has given any sort of coherent argument as to how calling for equality equals hatred.

Casey was asked a question and answered it.

Perhaps the makers of the podcast should have edited it out?
Perhaps Casey shouldn't have said what what he believed in (thats called lying)?
Perhaps his comments shouldn't have been used to try and incite hatred (against Casey)

Only in Ireland could you be asked a bloody question, answer it truthfully, and be accused of stoking up hatred.

Danzy

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Bearing in mind that I may come across as a husky chasing his own tail, I don't think anyone yet has given any sort of coherent argument as to how calling for equality equals hatred.

Casey was asked a question and answered it.

Perhaps the makers of the podcast should have edited it out?
Perhaps Casey shouldn't have said what what he believed in (thats called lying)?
Perhaps his comments shouldn't have been used to try and incite hatred (against Casey)

Only in Ireland could you be asked a bloody question, answer it truthfully, and be accused of stoking up hatred.

He committed blasphemy, not against a religion or a God but against modern "progressiveness".

There is a very strong tendency in many on the modern Left /liberal spectrum to go ape when someone expresses a counter view or does not conform.

It is a serious problem for them at the moment.

Irregardless of the topic, disagreement or counter point is a sin.

gmisk

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Can anyone answer this?

If Casey hadn't of been asked the question about the travellers, would any one be any the wiser of what his opinion on them was either way?

Running an election where he stood on a platform ridiculing them, I could entertain the incitement to hatred baloney.

What j see was a question asked of a presidential candidate, and a very poor hatchet job attempt on his answer.

The bigot racist and hatred accusations are a load of nonsense, but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

If travellers hadnt have been brought up...he would likely have come last polling 2%. Do you honestly think different?


I personally dont think his comments are racist at all, he maybe worded a few things poorly but its all been a bit of a storm in a teacup really.

I also wouldnt vote for him in a million years because I think he is a rambling clown and would be an embarrassment as president, which you know is what we are meant to be voting on.....

FrancieBrady

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Can anyone answer this?

If Casey hadn't of been asked the question about the travellers, would any one be any the wiser of what his opinion on them was either way?

Running an election where he stood on a platform ridiculing them, I could entertain the incitement to hatred baloney.

What j see was a question asked of a presidential candidate, and a very poor hatchet job attempt on his answer.

The bigot racist and hatred accusations are a load of nonsense, but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Casey would still be on 2% had he not been 'asked' the traveller question Johnny.
Arranged interviews for PR purposes come with a list of leading questions from the handlers, generally.

mariaalice

knipex wrote: »

Can you please quote exactly what he said that was so offensive. I have seen multiple claims made as to what he actually said but very few of them actually reflect reality.


He said he didn't believe that travels were a separate ethnic group. (I knwo he isn't the only one that believes that or is he not allowed to express a belief that is contrary to yours ?

He said that traveler culture involved camping on other peoples land. According to travels there culture is nomadic and involves traveling. They obviously have to park up at some stage. Unless they own land all over the country they park on land that they do not own.

He said that as a community they pay less that their share of taxes. According to all the traveler groups unemployment is very high among st travels, as such they pay no income taxes as such as a group they pay far less taxes than the national average. Or is he not allowed to day that ? Can he think it ?

To be honest of the people who will vote for Casey I think only a small minority will do so because of his comments on travelers. More will do so because of his comments re the welfare state (or are those an incitement to hatred also) and as a finger in the eye to the increasingly left wing state that we have become.
There is an echo chamber liberal media, a public with an increasingly pervasive sense of entitlement and complete lack of responsibility. There is a belief that no one should ever be offended, no one should be responsible for their own action, there should be no hard and fast rules, its all exceptions and hard cases. No one can voice a thought that runs contrary to the media echo chamber and image is everything and some people are just tired of begin looked at with contempt as if we were Neanderthals. The right to free speech is dieing and the lack of tolerance among-st the so called liberal elite bears resemblance to that of totalitarian regimes. Of course there was going to be a reaction.

But ignore it all, reinterpret it as hate speech, lack of tolerance, narrow minded backwardness and look down your noses at the Neanderthals.

I am curious how do you divide out the opinion of the balanced evolved individuals who just happened to have more to the 'right' opinions from the hate-filled ranting or opinions informed by the person's mental health issues or just general nastiness and resentment?

BattleCorp

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Casey would still be on 2% had he not been 'asked' the traveller question Johnny.
Arranged interviews for PR purposes come with a list of leading questions from the handlers, generally.

You have proof that he arranged for that question to be asked I assume?

JMNolan

BattleCorp wrote: »

You have proof that he arranged for that question to be asked I assume?

Francie doesn't do evidence. Just calls of racism.

Silentcorner

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Casey would still be on 2% had he not been 'asked' the traveller question Johnny.
Arranged interviews for PR purposes come with a list of leading questions from the handlers, generally.

It should also be pointed out Francie, Peter Casey was also the only candidate who didn't identify as a feminist, a question they were all asked by the Irish Independent, lets be honest about it, doing that alone in this day and age showed bravery.

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Casey would still be on 2% had he not been 'asked' the traveller question Johnny.
Arranged interviews for PR purposes come with a list of leading questions from the handlers, generally.

But he was asked it, I'd wager that he didn't ask them, to ask him either.

His call for equality seems to have resonated with a sizeablechunk of the population, otherwise we'd not still be discussing it here, and he'd not have went from the bookies worst horse in the race to the 2nd fav.

Said it before.

Genie back in the bottle stuff on a poor hatchet job on the man.

weldoninhio

Technocentral wrote: »

I grew up in Ballymun in the 80s, 65% unemployment, employers wouldnt take you on if you used that ddress.

What did the other 35% do??

Silentcorner

mariaalice wrote: »

I am curious how do you divide out the opinion of the balanced evolved individuals who just happened to have more to the 'right' opinions from the hate-filled ranting or opinions informed by the person's mental health issues or just general nastiness and resentment?

The same way you would for someone who just happened to have more to the "left" opinions...I would guess!

mariaalice

Silentcorner wrote: »

The same way you would for someone who just happened to have more to the "left" opinions...I would guess!

That's not answering the question :pac: I have never come across anyone on the left who is full of hate-filled bile lots of bonkers ideas and intolerance on the left, but hate-filled bile not as much.

Brendan Bendar

Omackeral wrote: »

ThE aLt RiGhT! Get a grip ffs. A massive percentage of his supporters will have voted for SSM only a couple of years ago. When you use trash terms like alt-right, all you're doing is making a show of yourself. wah wah wah racist bigot fascist. Jesus Christ an absolute parody at this stage.


Btw, the biggest ''Keyboard Warrior'' on this thread is firmly up the hobbit's hole, just sayin'...

Never was a truer…………………………………:D

Gravelly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, if you bothered to research them there is not a 'love-in' going on around travellers in the media. Another untruthful conspiracy theory.

You have a thing about conspiracy theories. One could almost say you have a conspiracy theory about them. The main media outlets in Ireland are extremely pro-traveller. RTE only ever mentions them in a positive light, as a poor put-upon "culture".

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said I probably couldn't. Can you now comment on the links that show hundreds of refusals of various types of social housing for a variety of reasons including unsuitability (the travellers in Tipp point) that I posted that show it is a problem across the entire welfare system and not just among travellers. And vindicate Casey's reasons for targeting one community?

Did you? I must have missed that .......:rolleyes:

Why would I give a damn about people refusing housing that's not suitable? Did they ask for stables? Fields? Poor try at deflection.

JeffKenna

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Casey would still be on 2% had he not been 'asked' the traveller question Johnny.
Arranged interviews for PR purposes come with a list of leading questions from the handlers, generally.

That's ridiculous to slander someone like that with no proof.

FrancieBrady

BattleCorp wrote: »

You have proof that he arranged for that question to be asked I assume?

Nope, and I never said I have.
I said (read a bit more carefully this time please) it bears all the hallmarks of a stunt to incite the kind of hatred and anti-traveller sentiment we have seen in bundles on this thread alone.
He even admitted last night that he knew it was a divisive thing to say after previously wringing his hands that he didn't mean to stoke up division, to Aine Lawlor before he took his 'break'

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely. And opinions that incite hate for the sake of it, should never be aired or given oxygen.

Do you think this kind of stuff can be put back in the box Johnny? Seen any other examples of it in your lifetime in Ireland and elsewhere?

Am I allowed say that I find the culture of FGM by ethnic African tribes to be barbaric?

If I am, then I am also allowed say that I find the culture of taking women out of education and marrying them off by the Traveller community to be misogynist and unacceptable.

I have had an academic debate with Rhineshark through this thread on the nature of ethnicity. While it was academic and principle-based, and we disagreed, it did mean that arguing that the Travelling Community are not an ethnic group is not a racist or bigoted argument if it is based on how you define ethnicity.

Gravelly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nope, and I never said I have.
I said (read a bit more carefully this time please) it bears all the hallmarks of a stunt to incite the kind of hatred and anti-traveller sentiment we have seen in bundles on this thread alone.
He even admitted last night that he knew it was a divisive thing to say after previously wringing his hands that he didn't mean to stoke up division, to Aine Lawlor before he took his 'break'

Nasty, snide attempt at slander with no basis whatsoever. Every post of yours is groundless conjecture, you can't back up a thing. You are a spoofer.

Beechwoodspark

taxi man just told me

He
Everyone in his family
And all his friends

Are voting for Casey tomorrow.

Be some craic If he won

Silentcorner

mariaalice wrote: »

That's not answering the question :pac: I have never come across anyone on the left who is full of hate-filled bile lots of bonkers ideas and intolerance on the left, but hate-filled bile not as much.

I have and I suspect I am not the only one who has.

pumpkin4life

https://twitter.com/CaseyPeterJ/status/1055482948206690304

:D:D

I'm starting to think he could win this.

ShaneC93

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

taxi man just told me

He
Everyone in his family
And all his friends

Are voting for Casey tomorrow.

Be some craic If he won

The odds have gone down significantly the past few days.. I put 10 quid on him to win at 41/1 and now it's 11/1 only 2-3 days later.

I'm still not convinced he'll win but it looks like he's a good bet for 2nd place now which would still be a good way to get a debate started.

BattleCorp

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

taxi man just told me

He
Everyone in his family
And all his friends

Are voting for Casey tomorrow.

Be some craic If he won

Apart from my Mam who is pretty much the same age as Higgins, everybody else in my family is voting Casey.

JeffKenna

CASEY #1... Spread the word

BattleCorp

pumpkin4life wrote: »

https://twitter.com/CaseyPeterJ/status/1055482948206690304

:D:D

I'm starting to think he could win this.

What might play in Higgin's favour is that there will probably be a shockingly low turnout.

Older people tend to vote more than young people and they would be typical Higgins voters.


By the way, shockingly bad publicity on the Blasphemy referendum. Very little information put out by the referendum commission. Anyway, I apologise, nothing to do with this thread.