Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

Deebles McBeebles

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Fintan O'Toole has it nailed

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-fascism-lurks-beneath-the-surface-of-irish-society-1.3679715?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Ffintan-o-toole-fascism-lurks-beneath-the-surface-of-irish-society-1.3679715

As does Ian O'D[EMAIL="o@doherty"]oherty[/EMAIL]
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ian-odoherty-peter-caseys-strength-was-the-main-parties-weakness-now-he-wants-to-take-it-all-the-way-to-the-dil-37473684.html

qwerty ui op

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Qwerty, there's this thing called Google....

People are not going on nothing as you say, they are going on lived experience. You can find studies about this all on your own with great ease.

I know all about google and I actually have tried but haven't really got anywhere.

I like for some of you guys to show me a few of the really good ones, you know the ones you go by!

ELM327

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Making wealthy people like Casey actually pay their taxes here like the rest of us while decreasing taxes on the middle class would be a good start on the tax front. There's something particularly reprehensible about someone who avoids paying tax here claiming that they're on the side of the middle class.

The rest of the points are fair enough though IMO, despite the inevitable outrage. We're too soft on repeat offenders, and RTE is a complete waste of money for the most part. The HSE spending needs to be looked at too, although I'm concerned that some people's 'solution' there would be moving to completely private healthcare, which I'd be strongly opposed to.

We already have a two tier healthcare system, arguably a three tiered one actually


Private: Get seen pretty quickly and access to better services (eg private hospitals, VHI swiftcare etc)
Public - No Medical Card: For those in lower paid employment who cannot afford health insurance, have to pay for private themselves or pay for public treatments in a lot of cases
Public - Medical Card (Or the neuveaux riche as I call them): Free access to everything, even better than Private above as GP care is free as opposed to getting €30 back.




I suggest just chop the whole thing and either make it all free and top notch, or all private and lower general taxation.

Deebles McBeebles

qwerty ui op wrote: »

I know all about google and I actually have tried but haven't really got anywhere.

I like for some of you guys to show me a few of the really good ones, you know the ones you go by!

As I mentioned before, people are discussing things going by their own lived experience mainly. No one is here to hold your hand through your thesis.

qwerty ui op

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Would you usually ask people to quantify their opinions with scientific journals or other studies in general conversation?

Just to correct you there! I haven't said people go on nothing nor have I asked for scientific journals or even studies Im just looking for something that forms their views

Brendan Bendar

Haven’t read all this O’Toole and O’Doherty stuff but it’s very simple.

People who get up early and work hard are sick of bankrolling wasters who make no effort other than game the system.

Casey said that, spot on.Got the reaction from those who were in that situation.

Paying for everything getting nothing ,watching spenks coining it as a lifestyle choice.

So simples.

Chop chop.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

So no one abuses the welfare state, no one of "variable tenure locations" steals from the working Joe who commutes 1 hour away, or from farmers?


Riight. Care to explain how Peter Casey increased his support from 2 to 23% based on a week or two of running a campaign based on that exact tenet?

Because he threw out a load of ranty stuff that triggers with people. He gave no answers to it, and wasnt held to give any answers, the role he was going for couldnt even impact what he was talking about in the first place.

So yeah some people were taken in by it. Id expect that to happen any day of the week regardless of the topic.




As i already pointed out, I could start a party tomorrow and grab a load of votes spouting all sorts of narrow focussed ranty nonsense with no real substantive solutions. This would get me votes with no problem


Its the way of the world.

What i do take issue with is that Casey has suddenly unlocked this secret and found something we didnt know existed.


now thats ridiculous. just like how some random millionaire businessman who lives in the states has any idea what its like to be you in Ireland in 2018

maxwell smart

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Making wealthy people like Casey actually pay their taxes here like the rest of us while decreasing taxes on the middle class would be a good start on the tax front. There's something particularly reprehensible about someone who avoids paying tax here claiming that they're on the side of the middle class.

The rest of the points are fair enough though IMO, despite the inevitable outrage. We're too soft on repeat offenders, and RTE is a complete waste of money for the most part. The HSE spending needs to be looked at too, although I'm concerned that some people's 'solution' there would be moving to completely private healthcare, which I'd be strongly opposed to.

I think I read that he has only moved back here from the US a few months ago and so hasn't been resident here. He did say he would now be living here and paying tax. Fairly sure his company is paying tax here. I absolutely agree everyone who lives here should pay tax. Including whatever ethnic minorities we have in the country.

hawkelady

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Would you usually ask people to quantify their opinions with scientific journals or other studies in general conversation?

Just to correct you there! I haven't said people go on nothing nor have I asked for scientific journals or even studies Im just looking for something that forms their views

You need look no further than the stats on the anmount of travellers in prison. ! There you go , and by god I’d say the majority of them haven’t got caught !
You’re welcome btw

listermint

maxwell smart wrote: »

I think I read that he has only moved back here from the US a few months ago and so hasn't been resident here. He did say he would now be living here and paying tax. Fairly sure his company is paying tax here. I absolutely agree everyone who lives here should pay tax. Including whatever ethnic minorities we have in the country.

Grand so, he spent the last 2 years studying the trump model of 'facts' then.

Yes lets be taken in by this charmer...




Sure he said it, it must be true. Kinda like the whole nama stardust thing.

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

Because he threw out a load of ranty stuff that triggers with people. He gave no answers to it, and wasnt held to give any answers, the role he was going for couldnt even impact what he was talking about in the first place.

So yeah some people were taken in by it. Id expect that to happen any day of the week regardless of the topic.




As i already pointed out, I could start a party tomorrow and grab a load of votes spouting all sorts of narrow focussed ranty nonsense with no real substantive solutions. This would get me votes with no problem


Its the way of the world.

What i do take issue with is that Casey has suddenly unlocked this secret and found something we didnt know existed.


now thats ridiculous. just like how some random millionaire businessman who lives in the states has any idea what its like to be you in Ireland in 2018

No that's missing the point and making the same mistake the mainstream media is making too.
What he has achieved is to bring these issues to discussion (including the thread you are posting on now).



I wonder what "ranty nonsense" he uttered during the campaign. I heard the soundbites and the recordings, none of which were a rant at all, merely a reasoned response to a posed question.

blanch152

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Making wealthy people like Casey actually pay their taxes here like the rest of us while decreasing taxes on the middle class would be a good start on the tax front. There's something particularly reprehensible about someone who avoids paying tax here claiming that they're on the side of the middle class.

The rest of the points are fair enough though IMO, despite the inevitable outrage. We're too soft on repeat offenders, and RTE is a complete waste of money for the most part. The HSE spending needs to be looked at too, although I'm concerned that some people's 'solution' there would be moving to completely private healthcare, which I'd be strongly opposed to.

Look when the State is paying more money to people on social welfare than their own nurses, guards and teachers get after paying tax, pension contributions, rent/mortgage and commuting costs, then there is something wrong with the system that has nothing to do with taxes.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

No that's missing the point and making the same mistake the mainstream media is making too.
What he has achieved is to bring these issues to discussion (including the thread you are posting on now).



I wonder what "ranty nonsense" he uttered during the campaign. I heard the soundbites and the recordings, none of which were a rant at all, merely a reasoned response to a posed question.

to the fore?

Do you read irish newspapers. They have been giving out about Welfare recipients for decades.

christ on a bike, do people even bother to inform themselves. Its almost like politics is new to them.

There is no clique narrative here, if you read headlines in the likes of the herald or the indo for the last 10 years you'd see anti welfare headlines etc etc.


nothing new, nothing changed.


Casey is not the messiah stop treating him like one its laughable.

listermint

blanch152 wrote: »

Look when the State is paying more money to people on social welfare than their own nurses, guards and teachers get after paying tax, pension contributions, rent/mortgage and commuting costs, then there is something wrong with the system that has nothing to do with taxes.

Listen here. if you are going to make statements back them up with facts will you


https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

Assetbacked

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/comment-we-cannot-allow-tenants-to-act-as-if-they-own-houses-37456377.html

That is absolutely shocking!

"The real scandal in social housing is that, in Dublin alone, 1,367 families are homeless while there are 5,000 two, three, four and even five-bedroom council-owned homes occupied by just one person.

There are a further 5,000 under-occupied - for instance, only two people in a four-bed house. This pattern is repeated across the country. It comes on top of news there are 3,600 empty State-owned homes which house nobody."

How is this not a big focus of councils and the media?! So many people living in council homes that are way bigger than they need. They should be moved to more appropriate units in order to free these homes up. It is a perfect example of dependency on the state if it is a situation where someone has been renting a council home for a long time and would feel injustice at being moved to a more appropriate alternative house.

ELM327

blanch152 wrote: »

Look when the State is paying more money to people on social welfare than their own nurses, guards and teachers get after paying tax, pension contributions, rent/mortgage and commuting costs, then there is something wrong with the system that has nothing to do with taxes.

+1

listermint wrote: »

to the fore?

Do you read irish newspapers. They have been giving out about Welfare recipients for decades.

christ on a bike, do people even bother to inform themselves. Its almost like politics is new to them.

There is no clique narrative here, if you read headlines in the likes of the herald or the indo for the last 10 years you'd see anti welfare headlines etc etc.


nothing new, nothing changed.


Casey is not the messiah stop treating him like one its laughable.

Anti Welfare headlines?
"Christ on a bike" as you would say, did you not see all the left wing media clamouring around ms Cash? Where was the anti-welfare (or even centrist) viewpoint then?
Do you even read Irish news anymore?

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

+1






Anti Welfare headlines?
"Christ on a bike" as you would say, did you not see all the left wing media clamouring around ms Cash? Where was the anti-welfare (or even centrist) viewpoint then?
Do you even read Irish news anymore?

Oh back to Mrs Cash,

I couldnt give a crap about what she does or doesnt do. She is 1 story in the midst of thousands of stories of actual people requiring assistance.

Yet you pretend there hasnt been an anti welfare slant in the media for decades.

I think your codding me at this point.

listermint

Casey / trump playbook.


Create 'another side' then vilify them publically as much as you can. Create a real them versus us wedge. The point is not to vilify the other side so much as to create a common ground with a support base for you. Sell them anything you think they want to hear and keep it going.



Profit.




This has been around since the Romans, Yet you stand there pretending like its not what has happened and casey is a prophet

Silentcorner

listermint wrote: »

Oh back to Mrs Cash,

I couldnt give a crap about what she does or doesnt do. She is 1 story in the midst of thousands of stories of actual people requiring assistance.

Yet you pretend there hasnt been an anti welfare slant in the media for decades.

I think your codding me at this point.

It is how it is premised.

Lets take a man convicted of a crime, his 45th conviction, imagine if we knew exactly how much his free legal aid bill was and what it is cumulative...that would really sharpen the mind!

listermint

Silentcorner wrote: »

It is how it is premised.

Lets take a man convicted of a crime, his 45th conviction, imagine if we knew exactly how much his free legal aid bill was and what it is cumulative...that would really sharpen the mind!

I actually dont understand what you are trying to say here?

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

Casey / trump playbook.


Create 'another side' then vilify them publically as much as you can. Create a real them versus us wedge. The point is not to vilify the other side so much as to create a common ground with a support base for you. Sell them anything you think they want to hear and keep it going.



Profit.




This has been around since the Romans, Yet you stand there pretending like its not what has happened and casey is a prophet

Wow.
You are obsessed with Trump. This is an Irish issue, an Irish problem.
(Ironically it doesn't exist in the US even 10% of what we have here due to their effective controls on welfare)

ELM327

Silentcorner wrote: »

It is how it is premised.

Lets take a man convicted of a crime, his 45th conviction, imagine if we knew exactly how much his free legal aid bill was and what it is cumulative...that would really sharpen the mind!

listermint wrote: »

I actually dont understand what you are trying to say here?

Simplified version:
Man commits crime.
Man has 44 previous convictions.
Man gets free legal aid again.
Hmm, I wonder, what the total cost of 45 free legal aid cases are?

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

Wow.
You are obsessed with Trump. This is an Irish issue, an Irish problem.
(Ironically it doesn't exist in the US even 10% of what we have here due to their effective controls on welfare)

Obsessed with Trump ?

No 'your boy casey' came from over there.

You pretend like he didnt pick this stuff up from watching it.


give over.

I know you are smart ELM , stop trying to pretend you dont see this man and what hes at.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

Simplified version:
Man commits crime.
Man has 44 previous convictions.
Man gets free legal aid again.
Hmm, I wonder, what the total cost of 45 free legal aid cases are?

Alot,

Whats your point ?

They have free legal aid in all functioning democracies.

Is it a thing that you want to get rid of!?

Really??

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

Obsessed with Trump ?

No 'your boy casey' came from over there.

You pretend like he didnt pick this stuff up from watching it.


give over.

I know you are smart ELM , stop trying to pretend you dont see this man and what hes at.

You've switched tack from the fake higher ground to the fake compliment. Interesting.


I see exactly what he's at, and in a country where there is a dearth of rational right (or even centre right) fiscal politics, he speaks for many others not only me.

Silentcorner

listermint wrote: »

I actually dont understand what you are trying to say here?

Sorry, it was in reference to the welfare culture and the issues it creates, and how it is reported in the news.

The media are prolific at court reporting, but one little change would make a great difference.

So, like I said, if we were informed by newspapers how much the Free Legal Aid bill was for each case, and how much free legal aid each defendant has received in total it would have a massive effect on who we blame for the continuing cycle of convictions and free legal aid, which we all have to pay for through the public purse.

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

Alot,

Whats your point ?

They have free legal aid in all functioning democracies.

Is it a thing that you want to get rid of!?

Really??

Yes. Not directly of course, it's not the free legal aid I have the problem with, it's the cumulative effect. Three strikes and you're out. 25 to life. Solves the problem.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

You've switched tack from the fake higher ground to the fake compliment. Interesting.


I see exactly what he's at, and in a country where there is a dearth of rational right (or even centre right) fiscal politics, he speaks for many others not only me.

Centre right!?

FG are centre right regardless of what way you want to paint them.

They brought in Water Charges ffs.

I think there is a dearth of rational thinking when people get hung up on single stupid issue topics like travellers.

You are being taken advantage off ELM and no its not by the bogey man welfare recipients.

Use a bit more savvy there horse.

Doctor Jimbob

ELM327 wrote: »

You've switched tack from the fake higher ground to the fake compliment. Interesting.


I see exactly what he's at, and in a country where there is a dearth of rational right (or even centre right) fiscal politics, he speaks for many others not only me.

There's a big difference between a person willing to implement right-wing fiscal policies and a businessman offering populist soundbites to get a bit of attention to himself.

Peter Casey speaks for Peter Casey.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes. Not directly of course, it's not the free legal aid I have the problem with, it's the cumulative effect. Three strikes and you're out. 25 to life. Solves the problem.

3 strikes and your out!


Lol laughed at, now i know your messing. Give over will ya. That stuff doesnt work in the States and it wont work here.

Will you please go off and read up on some of the stuff you are saying. I have because i bother to inform myself.