Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

Omackeral

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Please come back when you've decided to deal with the actual substantial points I've raised.

You're just going to ignore those very clear points I made because you haven't a hope of going against them. You're either a troll or absolutely off your nut.

Omackeral

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Again, you're refusing to deal with the actual racism by obfuscating and deflection.

Keep sticking your head in the sand, by all means.

You're going back on ignore, I can feel my IQ dropping when I read your posts.

Tipsy McSwagger

hill16bhoy wrote: »

See, according to this, you're actually now telling us that you should be able to legitimise any sort of bigotry based on colour, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, disability etc., because you include a qualifier.

"Contributing in a positive manner society" is one of these nebulous "how long is a piece of string" comments.

One can dream up any old **** to justify saying people are "not contributing positively to society". This notion itself relies on prejudice.

Is a person who is paralysed from the neck down "contributing positively to society"? What if they're a gay or a black person who is paralysed from the neck down?

Is somebody with dementia "contributing positively to society?

One can easily envisage how all sorts of people can be vilified as "not contributing positively to society".

The Nazis claimed the Jews were not contributing positively to society and justified their vilification and ultimate slaughter of them on exactly this basis.

This thread is full of the same type of justification for vilification and racism against Travellers.

Now you're telling us with a straight face that the very basis on which the Nazis vilified and ultimately slaughtered the Jews, is actually legitimate grounds for discrimination and vilification of people on grounds of "colour, creed, nationality, sexuality etc."!!!!!!

In the reality of civilised, liberal societies, there are and should NEVER be ANY qualifiers for anybody to have the right to be treated with dignity and respect based on their colour, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender or bodily characteristics.

The ignorance of history is utterly astounding.

………that the travellers were a great bunch of lads.

ELM327

hill16bhoy wrote: »

You don't understand the term "racial discrimination".

The UN defines it as such:

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

I place a lot weight in that definition.

You haven't even offered a definition, though we can all assume it doesn't include anti-Traveller prejudice.

Earlier on you told us that there could be no such thing as racism (racial discrimination) between white Europeans.

According to your own definition of race and racism, can you tell us, was the Holocaust racist?

For the fourth time now, these are the races. And I do not see "Irish Travellers" mentioned

• Caucasoid (White) race
• Negroid (Black) race
• Capoid (Bushmen/Hottentots) race
• Mongoloid (Oriental/ Amerindian) race
• Australoid (Australian Aborigine and Papuan) race

The holocaust. Let's see. Was that an issue of ethnicity? Absolutely, as ethnic Germans were favoured over ethnic groups such as Jews, Roma etc.

But was it a racial issue? Well, as no two groups in the 5 distinct races were in direct conflict, no it is not a racial issue. An ethnic issue, yes, but most certainly not a racist one.

Silentcorner

hill16bhoy wrote: »

See, according to this, you're actually now telling us that you should be able to legitimise any sort of bigotry based on colour, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, disability etc., because you include a qualifier.

"Contributing in a positive manner society" is one of these nebulous "how long is a piece of string" comments.

One can dream up any old **** to justify saying people are "not contributing positively to society". This notion itself relies on prejudice.

Is a person who is paralysed from the neck down "contributing positively to society"? What if they're a gay or a black person who is paralysed from the neck down?

Is somebody with dementia "contributing positively to society?

One can easily envisage how all sorts of people can be vilified as "not contributing positively to society".

The Nazis claimed the Jews were not contributing positively to society and justified their vilification and ultimate slaughter of them on exactly this basis.

This thread is full of the same type of justification for vilification and racism against Travellers.

Now you're telling us with a straight face that the very basis on which the Nazis vilified and ultimately slaughtered the Jews, is actually legitimate grounds for discrimination and vilification of people on grounds of "colour, creed, nationality, sexuality etc."!!!!!!

In the reality of civilised, liberal societies, there are and should NEVER be ANY qualifiers for anybody to have the right to be treated with dignity and respect based on their colour, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender or bodily characteristics.

The ignorance of history is utterly astounding.

You do realise that treating someone with respect, whoever they may be, does not mean that I am suggesting legalising bigotry if they don't.....you nutter!!!

So, I will ask, for a third time, where is my or anyone else's sense of entitlement evident in our opinions?

ELM327

Omackeral wrote: »

"Anecdotal". Here's a stat for you. 50% of inmates in Castlerea are Travellers. That's not an anecdote, that's a fact.

Stop being racist!
That's racist against prisoners! Apparently everything can be a race now!

mickdw

Rennaws wrote: »

X1000

I agree with Casey and have zero time for political correctness in fact i love nothing more then winding up SJW's..

But what I found so incredibly sinister in all of this was the manner in which our entire state successfully manipulated this election.

How dare a Taoiseach tell a country how to vote.

What the government did to Casey is not all that different to what was done to Maurice McCabe.

It's sickening and honestly makes me nervous to live in a state as corrupt as ours has become..

As for our current President, I used to have great respect for the man. I have none now and i sincerely hope he ends up regretting doing second term.

Now, when are we going to see these expenses ?

To be honest, I didn't believe the main stream media still had this power in these times with the numerous online media however they appear to have far far too much power still.

Where does a fight back come from?

hill16bhoy

tayto lover wrote: »

Wrong.
Casey spoke for those who saw recently how the entitlement culture works and how our taxes are being used. He is a one hit wonder for sure but the issues are still there if an actual politician wants to take them up.

Plus he made a good bit of money for those of us who predicted how "the easily enraged" would rightfully react. Why did they react that way? Well you know yourself Francie. You were here long enough.

Peter Casey and his supporters are the very embodiment of an "entitlement culture".

Casey supporters tell us that they are "afraid of being shouted down".

That's weasel code for "I should be able to say whatever racist nonsense I want, unchallenged."

That's not how it works.

It shows zero understanding of living in the real world, it shows zero personal responsibility, zero understanding of history, and it shows zero regard for free speech.

In other words, Casey supporters are the most delicate, entitled snowflakes around.

Real pretend victims.

Tipsy McSwagger

Omackeral wrote: »

You're going back on ignore, I can feel my IQ dropping when I read your posts.

Casey said travellers were Irish and should be treated equally to everyone else, like the Polish, Africans and anyone else who comes to this country. Somehow this is racist and he is like the Nazis. You’re wasting your time debating this because there’s nothing to debate.

Tipsy McSwagger

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Peter Casey and his supporters are the very embodiment of an "entitlement culture".

Casey supporters tell us that they are "afraid of being shouted down".

That's weasel code for "I should be able to say whatever racist nonsense I want, unchallenged."

That's not how it works.

It shows zero understanding of living in the real world, it shows zero personal responsibility, zero understanding of history, and it shows zero regard for free speech.

In other words, Casey supporters are the most delicate, entitled snowflakes around.

Real pretend victims.

Can you explain exactly what Casey said was racist.?

hill16bhoy

Silentcorner wrote: »

You do realise that treating someone with respect, whoever they may be, does not mean that I am suggesting legalising bigotry if they don't.....you nutter!!!

So, I will ask, for a third time, where is my or anyone else's sense of entitlement evident in our opinions?

I've just pointed out in very concise and logical terms how you did legitimise bigotry with a previous comment, because you said there should be a qualifier, which if one dosnn't meet, makes you fair game for bigotry.

Read your comment back - that's exactly what you did.

You didn't deal with the reply.

So you've just answered the latter of part of your own question for me.

I'd suggest that you read back over every weasley, obfuscatory comment here that denies the notion of racism from Casey supporters.

That's the very embodiment of entitlement culture and lack of personal responsibility - the belief that others should NOT be allowed call actual racists, "racists"!!!

Tipsy McSwagger

hill16bhoy wrote: »

I've just pointed out in very concise and logical terms how you did legitimise bigotry with a previous comment, because you said there should be a qualifier, which if one dosnn't meet, makes you fair game for bigotry.

Read your comment back - that's exactly what you did.

You didn't deal with the reply.

So you've just answered the latter of part of your own question for me.

I'd suggest that you read back over every weasley, obfuscatory comment here that denies the notion of racism from Casey supporters.

That's the very embodiment of entitlement culture and lack of personal responsibility - the belief that others should NOT be allowed call actual racists, "racists"!!!

Can you explain exactly what Casey said was racist.?

-Please answer because I will keep asking

tayto lover

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Peter Casey and his supporters are the very embodiment of an "entitlement culture".

Casey supporters tell us that they are "afraid of being shouted down".

That's weasel code for "I should be able to say whatever racist nonsense I want, unchallenged."

That's not how it works.

It shows zero understanding of living in the real world, it shows zero personal responsibility, zero understanding of history, and it shows zero regard for free speech.

In other words, Casey supporters are the most delicate, entitled snowflakes around.

Real pretend victims.

Jaysus you're coming across as a complete fruitcake in the real world with these posts. What a stupid post and not your first either.

Silentcorner

hill16bhoy wrote: »

I've just pointed out in very concise and logical terms how you did legitimise bigotry with a previous comment, because you said there should be a qualifier, which if one dosnn't meet, makes you fair game for bigotry.

Read your comment back - that's exactly what you did.

You didn't deal with the reply.

So you've just answered the latter of part of your own question for me.

I'd suggest that you read back over every weasley, obfuscatory comment here that denies the notion of racism from Casey supporters.

That's the very embodiment of entitlement culture and lack of personal responsibility - the belief that others should NOT be allowed call actual racists, "racists"!!!

You went Godwin...spectacularly....comparing Jews to Travellers is highly offensive, you are a disgrace! You keep avoiding specific questions and you keep lobbing insults like a weasel!!! I'm annoyed with myself for engaging!

tayto lover

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Can you explain exactly what Casey said was racist.?

I've been asking that since the early stages but still no response. You won't get one that makes any sense either.

Potential-Monke

Wow. Didn't think this thread would still be going. It's still all about how people who have opinions based on experience are racists against an ethnic minority?

Has the actual topic been discussed, ie: should they be considered an ethnic minority?

blinding

Make sure you can call someone a racist !

Excuse for not engaging with their concerns !

Rinse and Repeat ad nauseum.............

no.8

Like Fintan O'Toole, you appear to be either completely out of touch with reality or are in intense denial. Countries like Switzerland, Spain and Poland are not afraid to listen to the words of the masses, to engage and discuss open issues. This is one of several. I'm sure you wouldn't actively sweep the health system issues under the carpet, nor the housing crisis, to which many of the travelling community can obtain for free (while many of us struggle)

Redneck Culchie

tayto lover wrote: »

I've been asking that since the early stages but still no response. You won't get one that makes any sense either.

Just seen the guests for tonights RTE cutting edge Traveller Peter Casey traveller debate, as expected 2 D4 liberal womenCiara Kelly permanently outraged twit
Niamh Horan
Some fella called Martin from Pavee Point


Exactly whats wrong with media in this country. No commentator for Casey voters

RandomName2

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Peter Casey and his supporters are the very embodiment of an "entitlement culture".

Okay so I see you're explicitly changing your register to that of the rich liberal-arts major American university student for your argument. I can guess what we're in for.

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Casey supporters tell us that they are "afraid of being shouted down".

I've noticed this quite a bit recently. There's a growing tendency of debates being polarized by lumping everyone your disagree with into a particular camp, and the further the identity of that camp is from the point that is being debated the better.

hill16bhoy wrote: »

That's weasel code for "I should be able to say whatever racist nonsense I want, unchallenged."

Which is weasel code for 'I can't argue against your points, so I'll call you names so that you will be socially shamed and be unable to make your points'.

I challenged you to show how Travelers are a race. I challenged you again. You slip and slide greasily away from the issue as you know that your argument is built out of nothing.

I challenge you again.

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Real pretend victims.

A part of me was tempted to post an image of an attacked pensioner, in a classic 'you call this a pretend victim' type move. In all honesty though that would be a dirty, emotive tactic, when what is really called for is a level headed assessment of the situation. What would I be hoping to achieve by doing this? Just to try and shame you without addressing your point?

Okay so the real rebuttal is that you try and smear individuals as racists instead of intellectually debating them and then have the temerity to call them snowflakes when they call you out on your attempts to silence discussion on societal matters. Your claims that attempts to silence discussion is a defense of free speech is just one of those weird double-think strategies.

The Bishop Basher

tayto lover wrote: »

Jaysus you're coming across as a complete fruitcake in the real world with these posts. What a stupid post and not your first either.

I tried to make sense of that post a few times and gave up..

He’s great though. We need more like him..

The looney left will eat itself eventually..

No input required from us..

Just sit back and enjoy the spectacle..

Redneck Culchie

Hill16Bhoy probably a Sinn Fein supporter. Wont be many of them left soon.

Once upon a time they dominated Irish political discussion online. Back to your Twitter safe space Bhoy with the other permanently offended types

Tipsy McSwagger

Rennaws wrote: »

I tried to make sense of that post a few times and gave up..

He’s great though. We need more like him..

The looney left will eat itself eventually..

No input required from us..

Just sit back and enjoy the spectacle..

In 10 years the world will be full of jars of food, women can’t open them and it would be sexist/racist for a man to help.

wexie

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Wow. Didn't think this thread would still be going. It's still all about how people who have opinions based on experience are racists against an ethnic minority?

See the problem is, you or I would be quite happy to call a scumbag a scumbag regardless of what socio-economic or ethnic background they are. Display scumbag behaviour, get judged as a scumbag it is literally as simple as that.

However, there are some people who think that somehow, you can't do this once they are of a recognized minority (and yes I'm using those words quite deliberately) because it's considered racist, or bigoted or whatever other term for discriminatory language you can dream of.

It's no different from an african american asshole pulling the race card when they're being called an asshole......for being an asshole. It's an easy out and shifts the focus of the conversation away from the fact he's an asshole.

Somehow, somewhere along the line, people seem to have lost the ability to judge individual people on their individual behaviour.

And, by the way, I think that goes for both sides of the argument here in some cases.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Has the actual topic been discussed, ie: should they be considered an ethnic minority?

Ah now you know better than that!! That's not how we do things round these parts.

tabby aspreme

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

Hill16Bhoy probably a Sinn Fein supporter. Wont be many of them left soon.

Once upon a time they dominated Irish political discussion online. Back to your Twitter safe space Bhoy with the other permanently offended types

With the support some of them were given MDH in the presidential election I thought they were jumping the sinking SF ship

Spanish Eyes

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

Just seen the guests for tonights RTE cutting edge Traveller Peter Casey traveller debate, as expected 2 D4 liberal womenCiara Kelly permanently outraged twit
Niamh Horan
Some fella called Martin from Pavee Point


Exactly whats wrong with media in this country. No commentator for Casey voters

I doubt there ever will be TBH. Media manipulation and silencing of other voices is becoming a bit sinister IMV.

No wonder Casey garnered the votes he did. At last, people were able to voice their fears and give the Establishment a message.

Oh and by the way in this house we have a bet as to how many seconds it will take Martin Collins to mention the Racist word in any discourse. Tonight my friends, my vote is 15 seconds into anything he has to say. Which, if it does happen will not be challenged by anyone anyway.

blinding

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

Just seen the guests for tonights RTE cutting edge Traveller Peter Casey traveller debate, as expected 2 D4 liberal womenCiara Kelly permanently outraged twit
Niamh Horan
Some fella called Martin from Pavee Point


Exactly whats wrong with media in this country. No commentator for Casey voters

They need more of the Casey Vote /Message in Elections .

Rural law and Order Candidates is the only way this message is going to hit home .

Redneck Culchie

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I doubt there ever will be TBH. Media manipulation and silencing of other voices is becoming a bit sinister IMV.

No wonder Casey garnered the votes he did. At last, people were able to voice their fears and give the Establishment a message.

Oh and by the way in this house we have a bet as to how many seconds it will take Martin Collins to mention the Racist word in any discourse. Tonight my friends, my vote is 15 seconds into anything he has to say. Which, if it does happen will not be challenged by anyone anyway.

Apparently its a different Martin, Martin Ward but I would say your bet is still safe with this chap.

Not sure how they can claim to understand voters concerns by censoring their views. That Niamh one might take the Casey side though maybe. The show has terrible guests otherwise it could be interesting .

tayto lover

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

Just seen the guests for tonights RTE cutting edge Traveller Peter Casey traveller debate, as expected 2 D4 liberal womenCiara Kelly permanently outraged twit
Niamh Horan
Some fella called Martin from Pavee Point


Exactly whats wrong with media in this country. No commentator for Casey voters

Yeah just as I expected. Stacked. Collins and a few Dub Libs. No balance at all.

tayto lover

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

Hill16Bhoy probably a Sinn Fein supporter. Wont be many of them left soon.

Once upon a time they dominated Irish political discussion online. Back to your Twitter safe space Bhoy with the other permanently offended types

I wonder if he was the lad wearing the Celtic Jersey and complaining about the foreign games that time? Could have been him.