Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

weldoninhio

dav3 wrote: »

Quote the claims and I'll answer them if I get the chance. Stop being such a dramatist.

I doubt people want to watch you get worked up over someone answering/not answering questions the way you'd like.

They're checking this thread to see what Casey will say next. Is he starting to crack? Is Casey Cracking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dav3 View Post
"Poor Peter was called a racist live on national television last night. It didn't seem to bother him.

I was going to vote for him, but then he went all racist on us."



You said he was racist here.

Franz Von Peppercorn

dav3 wrote: »

Quote the claims and I'll answer them if I get the chance. Stop being such a dramatist.

I doubt people want to watch you get worked up over someone answering/not answering questions the way you'd like.

They're checking this thread to see what Casey will say next. Is he starting to crack? Is Casey Cracking?

Casey’s gone.

quintana76

Varadker has intervened. As everybody knows all he is is a PR creation. The fact that most PR people are ex-journalists means that they subscribe to the left/ liberal PC agenda. It is not hard to see why Varadker and Coveney collectively express similar views to Aodhan O'Riordan. Take Chris Donohue who was effectively sacked from NewsTalk for being the first to knife Hook and a being a boring (due to excessive PC) useless presenter. He is now working in PR for Coveney.

The liberal media are not only influencing political direction but are at the heart of the decision making process.
Time to give Varadker etc a bloody nose if Casey stays in.

Tell me how

tretorn wrote:

Send in armed Gardai into the halting sites and search them regularly. Inspect all vehicles and if they arent taxed and insured then impound them, travellers wont get far doing burglary raids around the country without wheels.

Tag all travellers convicted of raiding the homes of the elderly, the Gardai need to know their whereabouts as soon as they put a foot out of the bed at midday.

Remove child benefit from all children of schoolgoing age who miss more than two days a month without good reason. Taking money from travellers is the only thing that will make them send their children to school. Adult males dont want their wives to be educated because that might give them courage to stand up to the men and they dont want the children to be educated beyond primary school either because education is a way out.

Would you be OK with similar approach to middle/upper class locations where people drive without tax/insurance, commit crimes and where children don't always attend school.

Traveller society has issues, it's not like the rest of us are holier than thou either.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Casey will be back Monday after what I suspect will be be a weekend of editorial attack on him and his personal life.

Naw. It’s really not worth it.

Bannasidhe

My reading of it is either:
a) Casey said what he thinks and didn't considered the possible consequences.
or
b) Casey is fully aware of the antipathy (to put it mildly) towards Travellers in Irish society and reckoned a negative comment about them would be a vote catcher.

Neither of these possible scenarios show him in a good light as far as being President are concerned imho.

The President can't just say what pops into their heads/no president should be elected due to a perceived dislike of one section of society.

It could be he is actually horrified by the level of anti-Traveller invective his comments inspired. And if he genuinely believes all Irish citizens are equal that may well be the case.

If he runs and wins he will forever be the man who became President of Ireland on the back of an Anti-Traveller vote.

Hitman3000

FrancieBrady wrote:

So there is nobody else in western society (taking a wage and expenses) that decries the negative effects of capitalism and globalisation? Because you are part of a system you cannot criticise that system's excesses and exploitations? Really? And you want to depict yourself as somebody not engaging in simplistic kneejerk reactions?

MDH is a self confessed Socialist, so I find it hypothetical that he is happy to enjoy the benefits of capitalism whilst decrying it. Not kneejerk at all I have always found those that are happy to criticize a system but yet happy to enjoy its benefits as nothing but hypocrites.
I hated M Thatcher and pretty much everything she stood for but she did say something that was spot on. The trouble with socialism is you run out of other people's money. Words to that effect.

Hitman3000

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote:

Naw. It’s really not worth it.

That you Peter?

FrancieBrady

wexie wrote: »

Pride in what? And I'm not asking that as a snide but a genuine question.

Yes it's absolutely a problem and personally I think there are probably travelers who are trying to do better and trying to get away from the harmful aspects of their culture that are being disadvantaged by the many many stereotypes.

But whenever there's an outrage like sulky racing on public roads or the likes the message from the spokes people seems to be 'it's an outrage that you are all upset over this, it's a part of our culture and you should all allows us to do it'.

The message seems to never be 'you're all right, this kind of behaviour has no place in a modern society and we as a group can and should do better'.

Rather than disproving the stereotypes (which I'm sure some/many are doing) lots of them seem to try to live up to them.

While I will fully accept there is a lot of prejudice out there against them, from where I stand there is an awful lot more that society as a whole (I'm not talking individual people but the supports, frameworks and legislation) is doing to help travelers than they are doing to help themselves.

And you know what if that is how they want it I actually don't mind, I fully understand and support 'the right to be different'.

When I start minding is when that 'right to be different' starts interfering with other peoples rights.

Well part of the problem for travellers is their 'representation' and how we (the settled community) engage with them. It is almost always to ask them to 'defend' actions by members of the community.
I think, that their representation is not up to the task yet to be perfectly frank and will retreat into a defensive position. This has echos in other similarly marginalised communities and it will take time.
Personally I think it is through education that the solution lies. There are also similar reasons across the world's marginalised communities why education is resisted and it takes hard and earnest work to achieve goals there.

There is nothing unique about the problems we have here. Echoes all around the world and indeed in how we ourselves emerged out of suppression and subjugation. Surely the lesson there is that further suppression is the totally wrong way to try and solve the problems.

FrancieBrady

Hitman3000 wrote: »

MDH is a self confessed Socialist, so I find it hypothetical that he is happy to enjoy the benefits of capitalism whilst decrying it. Not kneejerk at all I have always found those that are happy to criticize a system but yet happy to enjoy its benefits as nothing but hypocrites.
I hated M Thatcher and pretty much everything she stood for but she did say something that was spot on. The trouble with socialism is you run out of other people's money. Words to that effect.

Ah the socialists should be poor and in sackcloth argument. Apologies, not really interested in that particular rabbithole.

CrankyHaus

sightband wrote: »

I’m cynical...but that’s exactly what I would say to garner more support for the next three days. If he announces he’s still running those that are on the fence will definitely give him their vote now.

I agree. It's an old trick used by many, from Bolivar to Stalin.

Hitman3000

FrancieBrady wrote:

Ah the socialists should be poor and in sackcloth argument. Apologies, not really interested in that particular rabbithole.

No at all, but it's still hypothetical to decry a system that you benefit so lavishly from.

EdgeCase

The presidency is a very constrained, symbolic, largely ceremonial role that's about basically being a bit of a diplomat-in-chief and national mascot.

This whole campaign has been dragged off into some kind of political and Trump inspired nonsense and even rather nasty negative campaigning.

I've no sense of what why any of them would be a decent president. They're bickering and talking about irrelevant subjects that have nothing to do with the Irish presidency during debates and it's just putting me right off.

I think the failure or FF, FG, Labour and the Greens to pitch real candidates as they're supporting the incumbent is a huge disservice to the electorate.

Michael D is doing a good job in the office but I think once an election was called at needed serious candidates with actual public office experience.

The whole thing has degenerated into a farce.

It’s a serious office, not reality TV.

I'm not even sure I'll bother voting in it. I don't feel enthusiastic about any of them. For the first time in my life I feel like I might just submit a blank ballot.

It feels about as serious as a student election and it's really not only not engaging me but it's annoying me.

The % video with the US voice over just finished it for me. I've given up paying attention to the campaigns entirely.

I'll vote in the blasphemy referendum though as that law is utterly embarrassing nonsense from a bygone era.

dav3

weldoninhio wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by dav3 View Post
"Poor Peter was called a racist live on national television last night. It didn't seem to bother him.

I was going to vote for him, but then he went all racist on us."



You said he was racist here.

Ah the satire? It went over your heads, don't worry about it.

I'm shocked at how outraged people get over the smallest things these days. I was genuinely going to vote for Casey, but the whinging from him and his snowflake supporters has put me right off him. I'm strongly considering voting for one of the other candidates now. I'm shook.

As for him being a racist, I haven't made up my mind yet. He may well be, there certainly appears to be a growing opinion out there that he is.
Just this morning I was talking to a woman whom I have never met before, who told me she never votes in elections but she'll make the extra effort this time for the 14 miles on her two broken legs, to vote against the 'snowflake racist' Perter Casey, she said everyone she knows will also be voting against him.

I appears the hard working people of Ireland have had enough of Peter Casey and his constant flip-flopping and rabble-rousing statements.

wexie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well part of the problem for travellers is their 'representation' and how we (the settled community) engage with them. It is almost always to ask them to 'defend' actions by members of the community. I think, that their representation is not up to the task yet to be perfectly frank and will retreat into a defensive position.

Would have to completely agree. To me its seems very much the case that most of their representation (I don't know if there are any exceptions to this) seems quite happy with the status quo.

If they aren't they sure have an awful roundabout way of changing it.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Personally I think it is through education that the solution lies. There are also similar reasons across the world's marginalised communities why education is resisted and it takes hard and earnest work to achieve goals there.

Again I'd have to agree with you, but I'd have to follow it up with asking who should be doing that hard and earnest work? I think that if every traveler child were to finish secondary school chances are we'd end up seeing a lot more of them going on to further education.

But....I genuinely can't think of anything that could be done to make it any easier for them to do so, the supports are all in place already.

Perhaps attendance could be enforced more (I don't think that would help any) but we can't make them want to attain an education, only they themselves can achieve that.

And the first people to start making and pushing this change would have to be their very own spokespersons. The very ones that rather than advocating society to help them change are doing their damnedest to alienate society by arguing to shouldn't have to change.

lobbylad

Casey suspends his campaign to reflect:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/presidential-election-2018/peter-casey-suspends-campaign-for-presidency-following-controversial-traveller-comments-37437133.html

The Bishop Basher

He'll still be getting my vote.

looksee

Tell me how wrote: »

Would you be OK with similar approach to middle/upper class locations where people drive without tax/insurance, commit crimes and where children don't always attend school.

Traveller society has issues, it's not like the rest of us are holier than thou either.

'Would you be ok'? That's the whole point, those situations already exist. With the exception of the 'armed police' bit, and even then, if there is a gangland stand-off in an estate, the armed police will be there. People get arrested and punished for crimes, parents can be made to send children to school, gards check for tax and insurance, and there are consequenses, people can be electronically tagged if necessary...what point are you making?

Bob Harris

if you going to make a controlversial statement then stick by it and don't bow to the baying masses. He said it because he meant it and the only reason he should leave the campaign is because he's wasting his time and money not because of some act of contrition for telling the truth that some people didn't like hearing.

scotchy

200/1 now on PP.


.

FrancieBrady

Hitman3000 wrote: »

No at all, but it's still hypothetical to decry a system that you benefit so lavishly from.

You can be critical of the system you live in and seek a fair balance. Stop eith the sensationalist Daily Mailish 'decries' nonsense. He criticised elements of the system.

Bob Harris

scotchy wrote: »

200/1 now on PP.


.

He may as well be 2,000,000/1.

FrancieBrady

wexie wrote: »

Would have to completely agree. To me its seems very much the case that most of their representation (I don't know if there are any exceptions to this) seems quite happy with the status quo.

If they aren't they sure have an awful roundabout way of changing it.

I think you are missing the point about what happens when people are only engaged with to defend.
I think they will get better more astute representation as time passes tbh.

Again I'd have to agree with you, but I'd have to follow it up with asking who should be doing that hard and earnest work? I think that if every traveler child were to finish secondary school chances are we'd end up seeing a lot more of them going on to further education.

But....I genuinely can't think of anything that could be done to make it any easier for them to do so, the supports are all in place already.

Perhaps attendance could be enforced more (I don't think that would help any) but we can't make them want to attain an education, only they themselves can achieve that.

And the first people to start making and pushing this change would have to be their very own spokespersons. The very ones that rather than advocating society to help them change are doing their damnedest to alienate society by arguing to shouldn't have to change.

Well, who else is going to encourage and foster education only those tasked with doing it. Don't let the sensationalists obscure the very real and difficult work that has and is being done here. No it aint perfect but it is having an effect.

The numbers getting to higher levels in education continue to increase.

I think (as a funny aside) that two of the Tipp family members yesterday were far and away more articulate and insightful than the bould Peter managed to be tbh.

FrancieBrady

Bob Harris wrote: »

He may as well be 2,000,000/1.

PP wins again.

scotchy

Bob Harris wrote: »

He may as well be 2,000,000/1.

Back to 100/1


.

Bob Harris

scotchy wrote: »

Back to 100/1


.

He'll get about 1/100 of the votes if he even continues with the campaign.

Better chance of Shergar winning the Grand National next year.

Hitman3000

FrancieBrady wrote:

You can be critical of the system you live in and seek a fair balance. Stop eith the sensationalist Daily Mailish 'decries' nonsense. He criticised elements of the system.

Whilst enjoying 500k a year?

Richard Hillman

If he suspends his campaign because of media outrage (not public outrage) then he is too spineless to be a leader.

FrancieBrady

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Whilst enjoying 500k a year?

How do you know what he does with his money?

wexie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think you are missing the point about what happens when people are only engaged with to defend.
I think they will get better more astute representation as time passes tbh.

What's to stop Pavee Point from saying :

Actually we can't and won't defend this behaviour? This is not the kind of thing we as a people and community represent and condone and we fully condemn this behaviour and call on all responsible travelers to stand up and do the same?

......???