Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

FrancieBrady

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Do your own research they do not receive more that the average industrial wage in unemployment benefit.

You’ve done yourself a disservice and me a discourtesy by not only parsing what I said but putting it in quotes.

Was that “I was busy” a retraction or an apology or just a another attempted put down

TbL

Look, you cannot change what you said and then attack me for taking you up wrong. You never mentioned 'the average industrial wage in unemployment benefit.'
Here is what you said:

Do you think that the US government would provide them with handouts that are greater than the average wage without ever having worked a day in their lives?

Native Americans have received billions from the state. Basically it is a payment to keep their heads down and go away. This is on top of what was done to them and the forced ending of their nomadic existence. They have many of the problems travellers have in a much more exaggerated way. Similarly, Aborigines. You will hear the same hate speech uttered against these peoples too. Irish settled people are in no way unique in that respect.

ThebitterLemon

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

If you must know it was the first ethnic minority that came into my head when I was constructing my post.

Does that assuage your outrage?

TbL

Fair enough, but Jaysus TBL, going on about Native Americans encamped on private property in relation to this thread isn't the best example to demonstrate your point especially when you have things like the Indian Removal Act of 1830 which lead to the forced expulsion of many people off their lands in Florida. I'm sure you'll agree this is a violation of rights that is eerily similar to the suggested violation of private property rights today and the negative publicity it would no doubt receive.

freshpopcorn

FrancieBrady

tayto lover wrote: »

Settled people dont live in halting sites or wreck them.

Ha. I know an estate in a large Leinster town where they were burning houses to avail of the upgraded ones.

Hitman3000

FrancieBrady wrote:

Ha. I know an estate in a large Leinster town where they were burning houses to avail of the upgraded ones.

I know of an estate in my home town where one traveller family burnt out 11 new houses so noone could get housed beside them. Council rebuilt the 11 houses at enormous cost and moved the family in question to a stand alone house on 2 arces 6 miles from the town.

buried

Vote Quint Number 1, or be on welfare all winter

ThebitterLemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Look, you cannot change what you said and then attack me for taking you up wrong. You never mentioned 'the average industrial wage in unemployment benefit.'
Here is what you said:

Native Americans have received billions from the state. Basically it is a payment to keep their heads down and go away. This is on top of what was done to them and the forced ending of their nomadic existence. They have many of the problems travellers have in a much more exaggerated way. Similarly, Aborigines. You will hear the same hate speech uttered against these peoples too. Irish settled people are in no way unique in that respect.

You’re being pedantic now Francie, have you a breakdown of these billions, capital projects versus expenditure benefits. I said the average industrial wage, I thought that was directionally clear enough and fair minded and objective person would understand my context.

You however attribute a quote to me that was totally incorrect and changed the context.

You still haven’t retracted it and I’d imagine if you were on the receiving end of such a tactic, you’d be calling me all sorts.

FFN..Francie’s Fake News.

Your credibility continues to erode

TbL

tayto lover

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ha. I know an estate in a large Leinster town where they were burning houses to avail of the upgraded ones.

I have no doubt BUT the word consistently refers to travellers.

irishproduce

Peter Casey should have been invited on to Late Late show tonight.
RTE wouldn't risk that though would they, might prove to be too popular

ThebitterLemon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fair enough, but Jaysus TBL, going on about Native Americans encamped on private property in relation to this thread isn't the best example to demonstrate your point especially when you have things like the Indian Removal Act of 1830 which lead to the forced expulsion of many people off their lands in Florida. I'm sure you'll agree this is a violation of rights that is eerily similar to the suggested violation of private property rights today and the negative publicity it would no doubt receive.

Absolutely but I take exception to being branded a racist or an advocate of genocide. My point was trying to rebut Francies point on the black crime figures and if you’d read the post and assimilated it you might have understood what I was trying to say (whether you agree or not is irrelevant) rather to latch onto a lazy smear tag.

Anyway at least you had the courtesy to follow up with a civil post and I retract my post insinuating that you enjoyed blow up dolls, I’m sure that’s not the case

TbL

ThebitterLemon

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Absolutely but I take exception to being branded a racist or an advocate of genocide. My point was trying to rebut Francies point on the black crime figures and if you’d read the post and assimilated it you might have understood what I was trying to say (whether you agree or not is irrelevant) rather to latch onto a lazy smear tag.

The intention wasn't to brand you as a racist etc. Apologies if you thought I was. I just thought bringing Native Americans into a point regarding the violation of property rights wasn't the best example to use considering their own experiences of forced removal from lands they lived on.

Anyway at least you had the courtesy to follow up with a civil post and I retract my post insinuating that you enjoyed blow up dolls, I’m sure that’s not the case

TbL

Cheers. Having a nice cup of tea and a bar of chocolate right now.

freshpopcorn

John Connors hasn't being overly vocal about this!

FrancieBrady

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

You’re being pedantic now Francie, have you a breakdown of these billions, capital projects versus expenditure benefits. I said the average industrial wage, I thought that was directionally clear enough and fair minded and objective person would understand my context.

You however attribute a quote to me that was totally incorrect and changed the context.

You still haven’t retracted it and I’d imagine if you were on the receiving end of such a tactic, you’d be calling me all sorts.

FFN..Francie’s Fake News.

Your credibility continues to erode

TbL

I said I parsed it and then I quoted it in full. If that upsets you, apologies. Again here is what you said in full.

Do you think that the US government would provide them with handouts that are greater than the average wage without ever having worked a day in their lives?

When the billions the state are apportioned per head, Native Americans have received many times the average wage, industrial or otherwise. 20 billion in a quick glance at google for 2015 on top of special grants for education etc.

I didn't 'brand you a racist or somebody advocating genocide btw, I did brand you mis-informed.

Cork Boy 53

irishproduce wrote: »

Peter Casey should have been invited on to Late Late show tonight.
RTE wouldn't risk that though would they, might prove to be too popular

Actually in the interests of fair and balanced broadcasting, until the election campaign is over, RTE could not have one single candidate appear on the Late Late or any other chat show. All the others would have to be given the opportunity of appearing as well.

irishproduce

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Casey will be back Monday after what I suspect will be be a weekend of editorial attack on him and his personal life.

Meetings were held today and yesterday in all the big Sunday papers to decide on their approach to take him down this weekend.
There is a cosy concensus. But you know what, enough people are aware of the attempts that will be made to discredit him or what he said.
I will ignore it, and i'll be voting for him next week.

wexie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When the billions the state are apportioned per head, Native Americans have received many times the average wage, industrial or otherwise. 20 billion in a quick glance at google for 2015 on top of special grants for education etc.

Ah now...if you start adding up and calculating the money that is being spent on traveler services nationwide and then work them out per capita we'd also no longer be talking about Margaret Cash and her 52k a year now would we?

It'd be a multitude of that.

Hitman3000

irishproduce wrote:

Meetings were held today and yesterday in all the big Sunday papers to decide on their approach to take him down this weekend. There is a cosy concensus. But you know what, enough people are aware of the attempts that will be made to discredit him or what he said. I will ignore it, and i'll be voting for him next week.

Leo earlier suggesting how people should vote, in itself is reason enough to vote for Casey.

NIMAN

Some female guest on Sean O'Rourke today said that if he gets a lot of votes now, it'll be a sad reflection on the Irish voter.

So basically she is calling all those who vote for him racist as well.

tabby aspreme

irishproduce wrote: »

Peter Casey should have been invited on to Late Late show tonight.
RTE wouldn't risk that though would they, might prove to be too popular

They can't give any candidate preferential air time. Also, with all the accusations of racism, as a result of PC saying, he thought all Irish citizens should be treated equally, RTE don't want another law suit on there hands, after the Sean Gallagher mess.

FrancieBrady

wexie wrote: »

Ah now...if you start adding up and calculating the money that is being spent on traveler services nationwide and then work them out per capita we'd also no longer be talking about Margaret Cash and her 52k a year now would we?

It'd be a multitude of that.

Not disputing that at all. I was disputing the notion that Native Americans are not given money. They are, essentially to go away and not rock the boat. Have a look at casinos and reservation legislation.
None of it has solved the endemic problems among those peoples though.

ThebitterLemon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The intention wasn't to brand you as a racist etc. Apologies if you thought I was

Thank you.

I just thought bringing Native Americans into a point regarding the violation of property rights wasn't the best example to use considering their own experiences of forced removal from lands they lived on.



Agreed and conceded.


Cheers. Having a nice cup of tea and a bar of chocolate right now.

Thank you

Agreed and conceded

Put the chocolate in the fridge it’s nicer cold.

wexie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

wexie wrote: »

Ah now...if you start adding up and calculating the money that is being spent on traveler services nationwide and then work them out per capita we'd also no longer be talking about Margaret Cash and her 52k a year now would we?

It'd be a multitude of that.

Not disputing that at all. I was disputing the notion that Native Americans are not given money. They are, essentially to go away and not rock the boat. Have a look at casinos and reservation legislation.
None of it has solved the endemic problems among those peoples though.

I'm not sure but that's not how read what that poster was saying. I read it as 'they don't get more than the average wage in direct cash* payments' rather than no money is being spent on them.

And he's right they don't. And, by the way I'm not arguing they are being treated well or fairly.

Pun not intended :pac:

Gen.Zhukov

doylefe wrote: »

It's factually correct to say that travellers camp on other people's land.

And look for massive compensation for having to move.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/traveller-families-seeking-up-to-800000-to-move-from-site-for-new-dublin-airport-runway-838597.html

A number of Traveller families are seeking compensation over Dublin Airport's plans to build a second runway, it has been reported.

Up to 14 families based at Collinstown are to be moved from land owned by airport authorities, many of which have lived at the site for 30 years.

According to the Sunday Times, the families are looking for sums ranging between €100,000 and €800,000 to move.

Fingal County Council said that an alternative site for the families is being sought at Coolquay.

irishproduce

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think it was Aine Lawlor. And indeed it was truly shocking. I just could not believe what I was hearing.

I have fired off an email to RTE in disgust.

The last thing that man is is racist, but she would not let it go. Poor man is being savaged.

Anyone got a link to the piece?
Fair play letting RTE know it's not acceptable treatment. I haven't heard it but two of you here flagging it.

GarIT

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was reared within 300 yards of one that is used regularly, it has caused no more trouble than some of the pubs in the town. When I married I bought the house next door, so Yes, I choose to live next to a halting site.

I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Fann Linn

irishproduce wrote: »

Meetings were held today and yesterday in all the big Sunday papers to decide on their approach to take him down this weekend.
There is a cosy concensus. But you know what, enough people are aware of the attempts that will be made to discredit him or what he said.
I will ignore it, and i'll be voting for him next week.

Any links for the above?

ThebitterLemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said I parsed it and then I quoted it in full. If that upsets you, apologies. Again here is what you said in full.



When the billions the state are apportioned per head, Native Americans have received many times the average wage, industrial or otherwise. 20 billion in a quick glance at google for 2015 on top of special grants for education etc.

I didn't 'brand you a racist or somebody advocating genocide btw, I did brand you mis-informed.

Point of correction, you didn’t mention parsing or quote me in full in the post I’m referring to.

Again Francie you are twisting phraseology to suit yourself. I mentioned average wage and now you’re talking about special grants. Talking about comparing apples with hippopotamus.

You’re a gas man, you’ve misquoted me, inferred that I’m a fool and moran, and that my opinions are dangerous and misinformed. Can you please show me where I’m misinformed, I’ll hold my hand up if I am.

Unlike you Francie I’ll admit when I’m wrong or have made an error, I’m also open to changing my mind where someone puts a logical argument in front of me.

Mis quoting me or selectively changing the context of my opinion is really disingenuous and makes you come across like a proselytizing zealot.

TbL

FrancieBrady

wexie wrote: »

I'm not sure but that's not how read what that poster was saying. I read it as 'they don't get more than the average wage in direct cash* payments' rather than no money is being spent on them.

And he's right they don't. And, by the way I'm not arguing they are being treated well or fairly.

Pun not intended :pac:

Here is what the poster said:

Do you think that the US government would provide them with handouts that are greater than the average wage without ever having worked a day in their lives?

The fact is the American government gives billions, it doesn't give to others to others on top of other benefits. Unemployment among NA's is much higher than other groups bar blacks.

FrancieBrady

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Point of correction, you didn’t mention parsing or quote me in full in the post I’m referring to.

Again Francie you are twisting phraseology to suit yourself. I mentioned average wage and now you’re talking about special grants. Talking about comparing apples with hippopotamus.

You’re a gas man, you’ve misquoted me, inferred that I’m a fool and moran, and that my opinions are dangerous and misinformed. Can you please show me where I’m misinformed, I’ll hold my hand up if I am.

Unlike you Francie I’ll admit when I’m wrong or have made an error, I’m also open to changing my mind where someone puts a logical argument in front of me.

Mis quoting me or selectively changing the context of my opinion is really disingenuous and makes you come across like a proselytizing zealot.

TbL

Maybe stop huffing, accept my apology for parsing you and deal with what is being said?

Not my fault you need to qualify what you said.

ThebitterLemon

wexie wrote: »

I'm not sure but that's not how read what that poster was saying. I read it as 'they don't get more than the average wage in direct cash* payments' rather than no money is being spent on them.

And he's right they don't. And, by the way I'm not arguing they are being treated well or fairly.

Pun not intended :pac:

Thank you Wexie, that was exactly my point, I also am not arguing that they have not been terribly treated, they have. Francie appears to be a selective reader but an adept misquoter

TbL