Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

NasserShammaz

AllForIt wrote: »

I still can't get over what Martin Collins of Pavee point said on Prime Time which could only be described as an out and out attack on the people of Ireland and the state. In a nutshell he said that all the traveller issues are directly attributable to individual and state racism they have suffered for centuries and poor stats in relation to very high drop out rates especially for girls from school, high suicide rates etc are the result of this racism. He frames the situation as such and infers that high crime rates are a natural consequence of this and also infers high imprisonment rates are partly racially motivated in that they get harsher sentences.

Ok, so lets say this is true and we'll try to sort it out. Education is a barrier to work so lets make it illegal for anyone to drop out of school until leaving cert level. Lets have equality for travellers and anyone able-bodied on long term welfare be required to participate on TUS courses just like settled folk do or have their social welfare payments cut, just like settled folk do. If the TUS schemes don't meet the needs of travellers then let the government design schemes that do. Same for educational courses, courses designed specially for travellers if need be. If travellers were seen to engage in all of this instead of hanging around street corners I think this would have a positive effect on traveller-community relations. Just some random ideas off the top of my head.

On second thoughts I'm not sure it would catch on. I don't get the impression they are particularity dissatisfied with their lot. The primary compliant is the prejudice they say they suffer from the people who support their lifestyle and not getting quite enough off them either. And if they were to reach employment levels comparable to ours wouldn't they just over time meld into our society and become indistinguishable from everyone else and what would become of their culture then? Maybe they would consider my idea as a kind of social engineering trick to wipe them out through dilution slowly over time.

I would like to ask Mr Collins how he envisions a satisfactory solution to the problems. Imagine the racism is gone, the state gives them all they ask for...what then? Where will they live...what will they do all day long...what kind of accommodation is preferred. Or is it just time to face the truth which is your demographic is actually a sub culture of ours, not a separate sustainable distinct independent one, and that fact is hard to swallow since you regard culture so highly. That fact as I see it is the fundamental reason why the traveller issue is such a hard nut to crack and I frankly don't ever see a solution to it unless travellers themselves change.

On this particular controversy I think yes it prolly wasn't right for a presidential candidate to bring up any minority that could in any way be construed as an attack on them. However I feel that something like this was bound to happen because I sense a deepening disquiet re traveller issues over the last couple of years or so and that's what happens when one is not allowed in public discourse to say anything at all about travellers without being labelled a racist.

Martin Collins yea right Id take more notice of Joan Collins TBH.

Roger Hassenforder

NasserShammaz wrote: »

Martin Collins yea right Id take more notice of Joan Collins TBH.

WTF has Dynasty got to do with this....


I'll get me coat

Discodog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The drop in the odds is to coax more money out of fools. I genuinely can never understand why people fall for this bookie stunt. But anyway...:D

What towns and villages are 'on their knees'? And shouldn't there be some anger directed at others and state agengies for allowing these towns to be brought 'to their knees'?

The travellers in the halting site, on the Headford Road Galway, persistently & continually abuse & fail to look after their horses. Thousands have been spent in seizing horses, only for the travellers to get more. Almost every night there is another horse loose on the road.

Do you think that the Guards should be there 24/7 ? What penalties should be imposed on the travellers who do this ? Who should pay for the 24 hour cctv required to constantly monitor the site & road ?

FrancieBrady

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Apologies if ive misquoted you directly.
Its just I've surmised, based on your obfuscation on simple questions, that the Tipp travellers in question should have been given the land.

Please correct me:
Which is it*:
They should not have been given the land etc.
They should have been given the land etc.

Casey opinioned the former and is being decried as a racist

*Irrespective of any agrrement, which is a "they said-we said". Its a simple issue of entitlement.

If the council agreed, then they should honour the agreement.
If the council didn't agree, then they shouldn't be given the land.

And that isn't 'all' Casey said. He went on to generalise about 'all' travellers.

Discodog

Gen.Zhukov wrote: »

I listened to the RTE 1 o'clock news. I think there was genuine surprise at the avalanche of texts in favour of P. Casey. Kinda shows just how little these people know about the real world.

Secondly, a question. If Casey does pull out but still gets a massive amount of votes, is there any danger that those votes will be lumped in with the spoiled votes and we will never know the figure ? Technically speaking they could be called spoiled votes as the candidate was not running.

Oh they know but are scared to be labelled as a racist. No one dare speak the truth until now. I abhor racism & discrimination which is why I abhor one group being allowed to do as they please at the expense of the rest.

FrancieBrady

Discodog wrote: »

The travellers in the halting site, on the Headford Road Galway, persistently & continually abuse & fail to look after their horses. Thousands have been spent in seizing horses, only for the travellers to get more. Almost every night there is another horse loose on the road.

Do you think that the Guards should be there 24/7 ? What penalties should be imposed on the travellers who do this ? Who should pay for the 24 hour cctv required to constantly monitor the site & road ?

Loose horses have brought a town the size of Galway 'to it's knees'? Are we sensationalising just a tweeny tiny bit here?

Travellers who break the law should be treated exactly the same as anybody else who breaks it.

The same people who pay for law and order and cctv in every other part of the country should pay for it.

Again I ask, whose fault is it that the law in the country is being ignored?

Roger Hassenforder

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the council agreed, then they should honour the agreement.
If the council didn't agree, then they shouldn't be given the land.

And that isn't 'all' Casey said. He went on to generalise about 'all' travellers.

And his other generalizations were pretty much spot on

tretorn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here is a line from the HSE charter which outlines what you can expect when using the service.



You just perfectly and adequately showed that in reality, this isn't the case. You can pay for better.

Of course I can pay for better. So can Margaret Cash and her ilk but they prefer to spend lots of money on communion dresses and designer footwear.
The HSE motto is in relation to public care, if you want your child to wait in line behind the Cash brood then the HSE will treat you equally. She wont pay for anything and you want equality to happy days for you.
Its none of the HSEs business or yours if I pay six thousand euros for health care, this means I get my treatment faster because I pay fir this service.
I have a big mortgage too because I dont want travellers ending up next door to me. I dont want traveller children in school with my children either, I see how they behave in nutgrove shopping centre and I want as much distance between them and my children as money can buy.
Vote for Peter Casey.
Send a message to Leo.

Roger Hassenforder

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Loose horses have brought a town the size of Galway 'to it's knees'? Are we sensationalising just a tweeny tiny bit here?

Travellers who break the law should be treated exactly the same as anybody else who breaks it.

The same people who pay for law and order and cctv in every other part of the country should pay for it.

Again I ask, whose fault is it that the law in the country is being ignored?

Ive read that three times.
I cant see where she/he has made that claim..
"Brought to its knees" indeed.

FrancieBrady

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

And hes other generalizations were pretty much spot on

Well they factually weren't. 83% of travellers at the last census lived in permanent accommodation.
Casey claimed they camped on land that isn't theirs.

He has form for lying about these things, he lied about Higgins objecting to a planning permission. A

And those lies were designed to do one thing - incite.

NasserShammaz

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again I ask, whose fault is it that the law in the country is being ignored?

It must be everyone else's but the fu*kers Breaking the law

FrancieBrady

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Ive read that three times.
I cant see where she/he has made that claim..
"Brought to its knees" indeed.

Look at the post. They hightlighted my question in the quoted post.

I can only assume that 'Galway' was the answer to 'What towns and villages are 'on their knees'?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108403630&postcount=2676

Gen.Zhukov

Discodog wrote: »

Oh they know but are scared to be labelled as a racist. No one dare speak the truth until now. I abhor racism & discrimination which is why I abhor one group being allowed to do as they please at the expense of the rest.

I'm with you on that. There was surprise/shock though. Cormac O' Hara for sure.
Perhaps the surprise was that the texts weren't in Irish.:pac: Listen back.

FrancieBrady

tretorn wrote: »

Of course I can pay for better. So can Margaret Cash and her ilk but they prefer to spend lots of money on communion dresses and designer footwear.
The HSE motto is in relation to public care, if you want your child to wait in line behind the Cash brood then the HSE will treat you equally. She wont pay for anything and you want equality to happy days for you.
Its none of the HSEs business or yours if I pay six thousand euros for health care, this means I get my treatment faster because I pay fir this service.
I have a big mortgage too because I dont want travellers ending up next door to me. I dont want traveller children in school with my children either, I see how they behave in nutgrove shopping centre and I want as much distance between them and my children as money can buy.
Vote for Peter Casey.
Send a message to Leo.

Sorry, that falls a long way short as an answer. Good rant, bad answer.

FrancieBrady

Gen.Zhukov wrote: »

I'm with you on that. There was surprise/shock though. Cormac O' Hara for sure.
Perhaps the surprise was that the texts weren't in Irish.:pac: Listen back.

I thought O'Hara's surprise was (and he actually said this) 'We certainly have received a lot of texts but how can you answer texts like that?'

Probably filled with the hate Casey incited imo.

Discodog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Loose horses have brought a town the size of Galway 'to it's knees'? Are we sensationalising just a tweeny tiny bit here?

Travellers who break the law should be treated exactly the same as anybody else who breaks it.

The same people who pay for law and order and cctv in every other part of the country should pay for it.

Again I ask, whose fault is it that the law in the country is being ignored?

I didn't say "to it's knees" It was your phrase.

But they aren't, especially as it's incredibly difficult to identify who own each horse, so they have to be seized which costs a lot.

Oh you mean us the taxpayers.

The authorities could stop it by diverting badly needed resources. It would need a 24 hour guard on the site which you would argue was discrimination.

Roger Hassenforder

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well they factually weren't. 83% of travellers at the last census lived in permanent accommodation.
Casey claimed they camped on land that isn't theirs.

He has form for lying about these things, he lied about Higgins objecting to a planning permission. A

And those lies were designed to do one thing - incite.

Or can live in permanent accomdation.

So i must be imaging all those travellers living at the side of roads, derelict lanes, cul de sacs etc?

How does "we should all be treated the same" incite anyting other than a sense of civic pride, and solidarity?

Discodog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I thought O'Hara's surprise was (and he actually said this) 'We certainly have received a lot of texts but how can you answer texts like that?'

Probably filled with the hate Casey incited imo.

Luckily most don't share your opinion.

Of course the texts can't be answered. We aren't allowed to talk about criminality when one certain group are involved.

Roger Hassenforder

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Look at the post. They hightlighted my question in the quoted post.

I can only assume that 'Galway' was the answer to 'What towns and villages are 'on their knees'?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108403630&postcount=2676

I read that as a contribution rather than rebuttal/proof.
How would you bring a town to its knees other than famine, siege, warfare?

FrancieBrady

Discodog wrote: »

I didn't say "to it's knees" It was your phrase.

Not sure why you highlighted the phrase if you weren't addressing it. Anyway, we will all await for the original poster to come back and tell us what towns and villages are 'on their knees'.

But they aren't, especially as it's incredibly difficult to identify who own each horse, so they have to be seized which costs a lot.

Oh you mean us the taxpayers.

The authorities could stop it by diverting badly needed resources. It would need a 24 hour guard on the site which you would argue was discrimination.

There are laws in this land, if they are not being upheld because gardai and the authorities don't have the resources, then that isn't your fault or mine.

FrancieBrady

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I read that as a contribution rather than rebuttal/proof.
How would you bring a town to its knees other than famine, siege, warfare?

Well we agree on something. Clearly the person who originally and breathlesly claimed it is gone with the wind, or taking a break for the weekend, so to speak!

Discodog

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I read that as a contribution rather than rebuttal/proof.
How would you bring a town to its knees other than famine, siege, warfare?

It's a common phrase when people, like the animal welfare people, are at the end of their tether trying to deal with a group of criminals.

Hitman3000

FrancieBrady wrote:

Probably filled with the hate Casey incited imo.

You have claimed several times that Casey has engaged in incitement to hatred , which is a crime. I'm curious have you made a compliant to the authorities and provided proof of your claim?

FrancieBrady

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Or can live in permanent accomdation.

So i must be imaging all those travellers living at the side of roads, derelict lanes, cul de sacs etc?

How does "we should all be treated the same" incite anyting other than a sense of civic pride, and solidarity?

No, you aren't imagining anything. What you are not seeing, is ALL travellers living at the side of the road etc.

FrancieBrady

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You have claimed several times that Casey has engaged in incitement to hatred , which is a crime. I'm curious have you made a compliant to the authorities and provided proof of your claim?

Yes, as it happens. Along with a number of others. I don't expect it to go far, but it is important that somebody registers these things.

_Whimsical_

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well I do believe that society needs to treat different groups differently at times.

If a group is marginalised or an area deprived then yes, in the humane caring society that I want to live in, yes sometimes you need to treat people unequally.

And again, I fully understand and agree that some use this to their advantage, right across society. Travellers abuse it, settled people abuse it, wealthy developers will abuse special area designations etc.

Hope that point of view is understandable.

I fully agree with your sentiment. Certain groups do require special considerations and special accommodations. Travelers too. However those accommodations should endeavour only to help those groups live the best lives possible, not to enable them to stay mired in serious problems that result in lower mortality, social exclusion and criminality, not sanction the justification for poor living standards as "just their culture".

I'd completely agree with putting money into education, spread out housing in the wider community, not in special traveller estates, one to one school supports where needed, but also imposing sanctions on a parent where a child's education is not actively supported and facilitated by parents. I don't see justification for refusing houses or being allowed ride horses on streets for fun or even quite frankly keep a horse.

Right now there doesn't seem to be a real end goal with policy or conversation about travellers place in our society. I think it has to be full integration as Irish citizens with the same rights, expectations, responsibilities, life expectancy etc. Is it really feasible that we accept the status quo and let young men die of suicide at a rate of 6x the settled population? Letting it continue is almost like state discrimination against citizens.

Hitman3000

FrancieBrady wrote:

Yes, as it happens. Along with a number of others. I don't expect it to go far, but it is important that somebody registers these things.

Yet you have used the caveat imo about proof when asked. Good to know you have 'proof' . Personally I think the desk Garda would just view you as a crank, along with the others.

jace_da_face

PP has Casey placed at 67/1 now and Duffy at 100/1

NIMAN

jace_da_face wrote: »

PP has Casey placed at 67/1 now and Duffy at 100/1

Casey gone from 500/1 to 67/1....thats some drop in odds !! (for a racist).

Hitman3000

NIMAN wrote:

Casey gone from 500/1 to 67/1....thats some drop in odds !! (for a racist).

The polls tomorrow should make interesting reading.