Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

gormdubhgorm

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

That article says travellers are dumping on the site. If there are 'country folk' dumping there on top of it all normal minded people will condemn it.

You are reading what you want into the article read it again.
The last few lines...

Ellis’s Yard is used as a dumping ground for the local area. This is a much broader problem,” a spokesperson for the group said.

She said halting site residents have tried to block certain access points in a bid to tackle the problem. However, she said developing housing on the site would eliminate the problem

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ruraldweller56 you seem to be willfully blind that non-travellers can take advantage of the situation and make it far worse.
Whether it is condemned or not that is another issue.
It is a known handy way to get rid of rubbish, by some less scrupulous people they can then pretend it is all the travellers rubbish.

It encourages more illegal dumping from a greater area, as others take advantage of it.

Wheeliebin30

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You're talking out your ar*se chief. I don't represent nor often vote for SF. And if I did what of it? My comment stands. You've workers who need state aid getting blamed by other workers slightly better off who think they should have it easier and they just might if it wasn't for all the working people and their 'can't afford to live culture'.
On to your point about dem that want and won't or what ever. Re read my comment. If you don't like the policies blame the policy makers not the recipients. Do you think anyone on welfare is willing or in a position to give back some of their entitlements because some blue shirt aficionado is feeling squeezed? Maybe the poor Tory voter who feels squeezed should go back to school or get a better job and earn a bigger crust? Same dumb logical leap. Or better still stop voting the same wasters in again and again while expecting things to be different?

I commend the governments welfare rates etc that are in place for people who GENUINELY need them and for that we are a lucky country.

One of the most generous welfare countries for people who need it.

I don’t blame the government for people taking advantage of it.

I blame the individual.

The government are trying to do the right thing by people who need welfare and shouldn’t be blamed or voted out because spongers take advantage of it.

But you never miss an opportunity to blame the blue shirts or Tory boy or Leo of course.

Ruraldweller56

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are reading what you want into the article read it again.
The last few lines...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ruraldweller56 you seem to be willfully blind that non-travellers can take advantage of the situation and make it far worse.
Whether it is condemned or not that is another issue.

"The Traveller Visibility Group accepted that while some of the rubbish comes from the halting site, it said rubbish is coming from outside sources too."

Copy and paste job. From the article.

Anyone dumping crap there is a dumbass. I'm not trying to make excuses for my fellow settled comrades dumping sh1t there. IF they are dumping sh1t there.

tayto lover

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You're talking out your ar*se chief. I don't represent nor often vote for SF. And if I did what of it? My comment stands. You've workers who need state aid getting blamed by other workers slightly better off who think they should have it easier and they just might if it wasn't for all the working people and their 'can't afford to live culture'.
On to your point about dem that want and won't or what ever. Re read my comment. If you don't like the policies blame the policy makers not the recipients. Do you think anyone on welfare is willing or in a position to give back some of their entitlements because some blue shirt aficionado is feeling squeezed? Maybe the poor Tory voter who feels squeezed should go back to school or get a better job and earn a bigger crust? Same dumb logical leap. Or better still stop voting the same wasters in again and again while expecting things to be different?

I don't have political allegiances at all so I'm not a blue shirt. I didn't vote for this Govt either. I have little time for politicians of any hue or colour as my post history will support. You on the other hand seem to lean towards SF judging by your posting history.
My point still stands that no matter who is in power there are certain people who won't work anyway.
I asked you if SF had a policy to make people work for a living or is it just another political stunt to garner votes in the next election?

gormdubhgorm

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

"The Traveller Visibility Group accepted that while some of the rubbish comes from the halting site, it said rubbish is coming from outside sources too."

Copy and paste job. From the article.

Anyone dumping crap there is a dumbass. I'm not trying to make excuses for my fellow settled comrades dumping sh1t there. IF they are dumping sh1t there.

EXACTLY!!! Anyone dumping is a dumbass.
But the way things were being portrayed in this thread that it would be incredulous that ANY non-travellers would add to an illegal dumping site.
The tone was that comment was laughable and it was reposted a number of times.
That is the main tenant of my point.
What does this say about the posters?
Posters who have the benefit of a good state education etc etc, yet spin facts to nothing more then a stereotype.
Such willful blindness and stereotyping is the lowest of the low.
Especially when it comes from people who should know better.

In my view they are just as bad as the Margaret Cash's of this world, in that they are completely blinkered by a myopic viewpoint.
My idea about more integration with travellers and non-travellers was shot down.
As it was glibly said they would only rob the people's houses while they were away....

I could give more examples of peoples stereotyping and myopic thinking on this thread, but there is too much to mention.

BBFAN

Tbf anyone who thinks that settled people haven't been dumping rubbish ever since the bin charges came in are naïve in the extreme.

ohnonotgmail

BBFAN wrote: »

Tbf anyone who thinks that settled people haven't been dumping rubbish ever since the bin charges came in are naïve in the extreme.

dumping it next to a halting site?

givyjoe

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

EXACTLY!!! Anyone dumping is a dumbass.
But the way things were being portrayed in this thread that it would be incredulous that ANY non-travellers would add to an illegal dumping site.
The tone was that comment was laughable and it was reposted a number of times.
That is the main tenant of my point.
What does this say about the posters?
Posters have the benefit of a good state education etc etc, yet spin facts to nothing more then a stereotype.
Such willful blindness and stereotyping is the lowest of the low.
Especially when it comes from people who should know better.

In my view they are just as bad as the Margaret Cash's of this world, in that they are completely blinkered by a myopic viewpoint.

Eh, no. People didn't believe that settled folks were dumping ON a HALTING SITE. That's something completely different to adding to an illegal dumping site. Come on.

tayto lover

givyjoe wrote: »

Eh, no. People didn't believe that settled folks were dumping ON a HALTING SITE. That's something completely different to adding to an illegal dumping site. Come on.

People avoid halting sites like the plague.

Ruraldweller56

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

EXACTLY!!! Anyone dumping is a dumbass.
But the way things were being portrayed in this thread that it would be incredulous that ANY non-travellers would add to an illegal dumping site.
The tone was that comment was laughable and it was reposted a number of times.
That is the main tenant of my point.
What does this say about the posters?
Posters who have the benefit of a good state education etc etc, yet spin facts to nothing more then a stereotype.
Such willful blindness and stereotyping is the lowest of the low.
Especially when it comes from people who should know better.

In my view they are just as bad as the Margaret Cash's of this world, in that they are completely blinkered by a myopic viewpoint.
My idea about more integration with travellers and non-travellers was shot down.
As it was glibly said they would only rob the people's houses while they were away....

I could give more examples of peoples stereotyping and myopic thinking on this thread, but there is too much to mention.

Well then maybe somebody else should go and get a good state education and start spinning a few of their own 'facts'. I can think of one woman in particular whose name has been dropped several times already in this thread. Although why should she bother since the likes of RTÉ and Collette Brown and zampadildo and nearly 100% of the MSM are happy to spin facts on her behalf.

I don't know all the facts behind that rubbish site. Anyone, and I mean anyone contributing to it is a pr!ck. Simple as.

But what I will point out to you is this. How is a traveller, living on a halting site, with little or no education (and thereby no job) and heaps of kids and a shot of horses supposed to be able to afford to dispose of their own rubbish, without leeching off the taxpayer or resorting to crime?


That for me is what this boils down to. I'll reiterate. I don't care how they choose to live as long as it doesn't impact on me. Either directly (as it has) or through my taxes (as it does).

Ruraldweller56

The absolute state of this.

https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1053016788735315968?s=20

alias no.9

Raheem Euro wrote: »

The point of ID is to stop the aforementioned fraud. The first argument against vouchers is always that they will sold on black market. What if you turned up for weekly shop and they told you it had been given out already. Someone else gave your name. Sorry. Your goods are linked to you and your id to protect them and ensure only you get them. No different to producing id at post office or intreo centre.

Just make it a chip and pin / contactless style card that they will need to have for next weeks payment too, pretty simple stuff, nobody will pay a blind bit of attention to anyone using such a card at a till.

Mad_maxx

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

The absolute state of this.

https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1053016788735315968?s=20

Colette browne is the most boring journalist in Ireland, she embodies everything that is wrong with the industry today

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You're talking out your ar*se chief. I don't represent nor often vote for SF. And if I did what of it? My comment stands. You've workers who need state aid getting blamed by other workers slightly better off who think they should have it easier and they just might if it wasn't for all the working people and their 'can't afford to live culture'.
On to your point about dem that want and won't or what ever. Re read my comment. If you don't like the policies blame the policy makers not the recipients. Do you think anyone on welfare is willing or in a position to give back some of their entitlements because some blue shirt aficionado is feeling squeezed? Maybe the poor Tory voter who feels squeezed should go back to school or get a better job and earn a bigger crust? Same dumb logical leap. Or better still stop voting the same wasters in again and again while expecting things to be different?

Some people believe that you are of the "I've never voted for SF but I am considering it for the next election" brigade.

I can accept that you aren't. You appear to me to have an unhealthy obsession with Leo and Eoghan, as you call them, even to the extent of adopting a username linked to the Taoiseach. So while the enemy of my enemy being my friend means that you favour SF, I guess you would drop them if they ever supported Leo for Taoiseach.

What I don't get is your obsession with him.

Tombo2001

This thread is gas - the amount of people who have set up accounts just to chat in the Margaret Cash thread. Weirdos.

Not racist of course, they are completely justified in their 'dislike' of 'some' travellers. Sure didn't their cousins cousin once get verbally abused by a traveller, and don't the travellers all have Mercs and BMWs but still claiming the dole. Every single one of them.

Tombo2001

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Colette browne is the most boring journalist in Ireland, she embodies everything that is wrong with the industry today

Ah yes..... female journalists.....another bug bear of the angry boardsie.

Care to have a pop at cyclists next?

Tombo2001

......

Deebles McBeebles

Tombo2001 wrote: »

This thread is gas - the amount of people who have set up accounts just to chat in the Margaret Cash thread. Weirdos.

Not racist of course, they are completely justified in their 'dislike' of 'some' travellers. Sure didn't their cousins cousin once get verbally abused by a traveller, and don't the travellers all have Mercs and BMWs but still claiming the dole. Every single one of them.

You might be going a bit OTT there but I suspect you know that. Anything else to add or is it going to be like yesterday again?

Mr. CooL ICE

Tombo2001 wrote: »

This thread is gas - the amount of people who have set up accounts just to chat in the Margaret Cash thread. Weirdos.

Not racist of course, they are completely justified in their 'dislike' of 'some' travellers. Sure didn't their cousins cousin once get verbally abused by a traveller, and don't the travellers all have Mercs and BMWs but still claiming the dole. Every single one of them.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Ah yes..... female journalists.....another bug bear of the angry boardsie.

Care to have a pop at cyclists next?

Tombo2001 wrote: »

......

Do you have anything to contribute to the thread at all?

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

EXACTLY!!! Anyone dumping is a dumbass.
But the way things were being portrayed in this thread that it would be incredulous that ANY non-travellers would add to an illegal dumping site.

The problem here is with the "But settled people do it too!" line of argument.

Yes, some settled people engage in illegal dumping.

Yes, some settled people commit crimes.

Yes, some settled people are on the dole.

But this line of argument ignores the reality that Travellers are far more likely to be unemployed, commit crimes, and engage in other forms of violent and antisocial behavior.

The likes of Pavee Point like to quote facts and figures when they can be used to represent Travellers as victims. They like to remind us that young male Travellers are seven times more likely to commit suicide than their settled peers, for instance, or that Travellers' life expectancy is much lower than settled people's.

But mention statistics on Traveller unemployment, criminality, domestic violence, and so on, and you'll be accused of "stereotyping" Travellers.

It's an entirely disingenuous mode of argument, generally used by those intent on representing Travellers as victims of settled people's "racism." They will listen to no evidence that supports the position that Travellers' own culture is frequently violent, lawless, misogynistic, homophobic, and dysfunctional -- instead, you'll hear some variant of "Settled people do it too."

DavidLyons_

Tombo2001 wrote: »

This thread is gas - the amount of people who have set up accounts just to chat in the Margaret Cash thread. Weirdos.

Not racist of course, they are completely justified in their 'dislike' of 'some' travellers. Sure didn't their cousins cousin once get verbally abused by a traveller, and don't the travellers all have Mercs and BMWs but still claiming the dole. Every single one of them.

Good grief.

Well yours is the first post on this thread today. The first in over 8 hours in fact.

So you effectively bumped the thread to say sweet fcuk all!

Another numpy to add to my ignore list. A list full of clowns who only post in order to try to derail threads that aren’t going their way and/or provoke their fellow posters and get them banned.

KrustyUCC

This story about an application for a pub licence in Rathkeale was posted previously

Would-be County Limerick publican claims he was ‘discriminated against’

Patrick Kealy says he’s disappointed with the decision of Judge Eoin Garavan to refuse the application for a declaration of suitability which was made under Section 18 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act.

“I don’t feel great at all, I feel very bad about it, I feel was discriminated against,” he told the Limerick Leader adding that he is unlikely to appeal the decision and will instead “let out” the premises which is located at Main Street, Rathkeale.

“I don’t know what I will do but I will probably leave it a couple of years,” he said this Wednesday.

It was alleged by State solicitor Aidan Judge during the hearing that Patrick Kealy is the “Patriarch” of the Kealy family which is involved in a long-running feud with a number of other Traveller families in the Rathkeale area.

This has been disputed by Mr Kealy who told the court the feud has been resolved and that there are no ongoing difficulties between the families.

Handing down his ruling last week, Judge Garavan noted the concerns of gardai in relation to the applicant company, the premises and the potential impact of the granting of the licence.

During the substantive hearing, Superintendent Eamon O’Neill described the situation in Rathkeale as a “powder keg” saying there was a risk of a “step backwards to future lawlessness”.

Judge Garavan said he would not comment on the garda concerns but noted they had been expressed by the superintendent in charge of the Newcastle West district.

He noted that Mr Kealy has outstanding tax liabilities of more than €100,000 and commented that he had failed to rebutt some of the allegations put forward by the State.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/349254/would-be-county-limerick-publican-claimshe-was-discriminated-against.html

Nice amount to owe the State

Tombo2001

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Do you have anything to contribute to the thread at all?

Well obviously the only contribution welcomed by the angry mob is to castigate travellers, so as far as you are concerned I obviously don't.

One way conversation only.

Post your reply and you are guaranteed your 20 thanks from 'like minded' people. No doubt that makes you feel good.

ohnonotgmail

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Well obviously the only contribution welcomed by the angry mob is to castigate travellers, so as far as you are concerned I obviously don't.

One way conversation only.

Post your reply and you are guaranteed your 20 thanks from 'like minded' people. No doubt that makes you feel good.

How about posting something positive about them?

Gravelly

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Well obviously the only contribution welcomed by the angry mob is to castigate travellers, so as far as you are concerned I obviously don't.

One way conversation only.

Post your reply and you are guaranteed your 20 thanks from 'like minded' people. No doubt that makes you feel good.

In fairness, your contributions have been pretty poor - darting in to make snide comments with no insight into the op. If you feel so strongly that others opinions are wrong, why not challenge them?

Mad_maxx

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Ah yes..... female journalists.....another bug bear of the angry boardsie.

Care to have a pop at cyclists next?

Something tells me had the tweet the other poster pulled come from fintan o toole ( and I labelled him boring), you wouldn’t play the gender card.

Mr. CooL ICE

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Well obviously the only contribution welcomed by the angry mob is to castigate travellers, so as far as you are concerned I obviously don't.

One way conversation only.

Post your reply and you are guaranteed your 20 thanks from 'like minded' people. No doubt that makes you feel good.

Mod: See here. If all you are going to do is post from the bottom portion and aim it at the majority of the thread, then you won't be posting here much longer. Try posting from the top portion and people might stop treating you like you have zero credibility in this thread.

Tombo2001

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Mod: See here. If all you are going to do is post from the bottom portion and aim it at the majority of the thread, then you won't be posting here much longer. Try posting from the top portion and people might stop treating you like you have zero credibility in this thread.

Ok - I'll leave the conversation, thanks.

gormdubhgorm

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

Travellers are far more likely to be unemployed, commit crimes, and engage in other forms of violent and antisocial behavior.

I know all that my argument is that
More integration with travellers = more likely to change negative aspects of the traveller culture such as leaving school early.

If there is any traveller crime, the line seems to change from anti-travellers that it is not just a high percentage it is all of them.
This only exacerbates the problem.

The travellers have put themselves in a strange position they rarely interact on a personal level (never mind intermarry) with non-travellers. (DNA testing proves this)
Positive normal relationships need to be built up.
Otherwise it is easier to dehumanise them if there is no real integration.
The traveller mindset of leaving school early is a major problem.

For examaple John Connors speaks about his personal discrimination.
Saying he had to put on a Dublin accent to get a security guard job, then he was told not to let in travellers in!
The most telling part about the likes John Connors despite his drive against discrimination etc.
That he and traveller culture was the main cause of his own situation in the long run.
His cousins encouraged him to leave school at 15 etc, as it was almost seen as embarrassing to stay in school longer then that as a traveller.

If there is more interaction on a normal level with travellers from non-travellers that is when things will start to improve, education, mindset perception.

It is a disgrace that there is only over 30k in the island of Ireland and they cannot be properly integrated in society.
I think there is blame on both sides both on the travellers side and non travellers side.
It is a 'lets keep out each others way unless absolutely necessary' tactic from both sides on the whole.
How is that going to solve anything?

Margaret Cash's will keep reappearing unless there is a more common sense approach.

Because currently the travellers are like a disadvantaged area in the settled community which isolated itself and calls itself and ethnic group.
Positive relationships and friendships need to be formed in order to build up trust.
Barriers need to be broken down and common interests shared.

But the way some people are talking you would swear that interacting with travellers will result in death like this US fella when he went to a remote Indian tribe.
https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/us-missionary-killed-remote-tribe-off-coast-india-59353912

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I know all that my argument is that
More integration with travellers = more likely to change negative aspects of the traveller culture such as leaving school early.

If there is any traveller crime the line seems to change from anti-travellers that it is not just a high percentage it is all of them.

The travellers have put themselves in a strange position they rarely interact on a personal level (never mind intermarry) with non-travellers. (DNA testing proves this)
Positive normal relationships are built up.
So it is easier to dehumanise them.
The traveller mindset of leaving school early is a major problem.

For examaple John Connors speaks about his personal discrimination.
Saying he had to put on a Dublin accent to get a security guard job, then he was told not to let in travellers in!
The most telling part about the likes John Connors despite his drive against discrimination etc.
However, he and traveller culture was the main cause of his own situation in the long run.
His cousins encouraged him to leave school at 15 etc, as it was almost seen as embarrassing to stay in school longer then that as a traveller.

If there is more interaction on a normal level with travellers from non-travellers that is when things will start to improve, education, mindset perception.

It is a disgrace that there is only over 30k in the island of Ireland and they cannot be properly integrated in society.
I think there is blame on both sides both on the travellers side and non travellers side.
It is a lets keep out each others way unless absolutely necessary, tactic from both sides on the whole.
How is that going to solve anything?

Margaret Cash's will keep reappearing unless there is a more common sense approach.

Who is at fault for the lack of integration? Is it the country peoples fault as per usual? A more common sense approach by who? Again you expect country people to change to accommodate travelers. What are travelers doing to change their situation?

Lefty Bicek

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The travellers have put themselves in a strange position they rarely interact


If there is more interaction on a normal level with travellers from non-travellers that is when things will start to improve, education, mindset perception.

The second quote implies an onus on non-travellers to break the barrier that you yourself claim the travellers have put up.

Telling use of language there.

Deebles McBeebles

Would agree there are issues on both sides but at this point, after this much help financially, the onus has to be on travellers changing their ways to catch up with the rest of society. We certainly shouldn't have to pay for them through taxation if they aren't putting the effort in. Too much outcry and calls of racism and not enough looking inward.

Gravelly

The issue you are missing is that travellers lifestyles are funded by “the settled community” - we pay for their existence. What do they bring to the table in return?

PlaneSpeeking

Gravelly wrote: »

The issue you are missing is that travellers lifestyles are funded by “the settled community” - we pay for their existence. What do they bring to the table in return?

Sweet Fintan Adams.

ohnonotgmail

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Sweet Fintan Adams.

i think he was in the class above me in primary school.

KrustyUCC

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Would agree there are issues on both sides but at this point, after this much help financially, the onus has to be on travellers changing their ways to catch up with the rest of society. We certainly shouldn't have to pay for them through taxation if they aren't putting the effort in. Too much outcry and calls of racism and not enough looking inward.

Graces7 wrote: »

Travellers are never going to conform to ordinary Irish standards. It is not in their ... culture.. to do so. Not in their makeup. That was why the govt(?) statement was made about them being a different culture etc.

Traveller culture will not change as their currently is no incentive for them to change imo

Deebles McBeebles

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Traveller culture will not change as their currently is no incentive for them to change imo

What incentive would you suggest? I can't some up with anything that might be viable.

I agree by the way, I wouldn't want to change either if it was me. Although I'm sure some travellers would like to integrate more into society there will always be the rest.

PlaneSpeeking

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

What incentive would you suggest? I can't some up with anything that might be viable.

I agree by the way, I wouldn't want to change either if it was me. Although I'm sure some travellers would like to integrate more into society there will always be the rest.

No incentive at all.

They've had decades of carrot and it's done f**k all but embolden them.

Stick all the way now:

Kids not in school ? Prosecution and removal of children's allowance
Married at 15 ? Prosecuted for unlawful intercourse
Criminal acts ? Locked up - nothing concurrent or suspended, hard jail time.

The only way they want to "integrate" into anything is when the homeowner is away. Or 87.

Floppybits

Gravelly wrote: »

The issue you are missing is that travellers lifestyles are funded by “the settled community” - we pay for their existence. What do they bring to the table in return?

They bring their culture and traditions. Something about songs and language.

ohnonotgmail

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

What incentive would you suggest? I can't some up with anything that might be viable.

I agree by the way, I wouldn't want to change either if it was me. Although I'm sure some travellers would like to integrate more into society there will always be the rest.

how about some disincentives instead like increased garda resources to investigate their criminality and proper prison sentences when convicted. It doesnt have to be all carrot, there should be some stick as well.

ohnonotgmail

Floppybits wrote: »

They bring their culture and traditions. Something about songs and language.

As much as i like "Green Fields of France" i dont think it is quite enough to counterbalance the rest of their lifestyle.

KrustyUCC

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

What incentive would you suggest? I can't some up with anything that might be viable.

I agree by the way, I wouldn't want to change either if it was me. Although I'm sure some travellers would like to integrate more into society there will always be the rest.

There was some discussion already on about welfare reform

Most suggestions get rejected as being too harsh, unfair on other welfare users etc

Personally I would set up a dedicated CAB unit that would raid halting sites etc every month

Can't prove where the wealth comes from then it is taken away

In general we should be giving harsher sentences for repeat offenders

Not more concurrent sentences ... you do two crimes then do two times

Education is the key

Travellers have the same access to primary and secondary education as anyone else

Enforce the laws already there in relation to school attendance

Can't read or right well as an adult and signing on

Mandatory lessons or else cut back on dole etc

Deebles McBeebles

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

No incentive at all.

They've had decades of carrot and it's done f**k all but embolden them.

Stick all the way now:

Kids not in school ? Prosecution and removal of children's allowance
Married at 15 ? Prosecuted for unlawful intercourse
Criminal acts ? Locked up - nothing concurrent or suspended, hard jail time.

The only way they want to "integrate" into anything is when the homeowner is away. Or 87.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how about some disincentives instead like increased garda resources to investigate their criminality and proper prison sentences when convicted. It doesnt have to be all carrot, there should be some stick as well.

Totally agree about being punished for their crimes obviously (that should be for everyone and not need to be said but here we are) and that carrot and stick has not worked, its only emboldened some.

I'm curious about how the hell their integration into society would come about though. I don't think the majority want it, I think they are happier living on the outskirts of society and being given the freedom to do what they want in most cases. So how do you change that long term?

KrustyUCC

very true the majority don't want to integrate and are happier living on the outskirts of society

Hard to keep up the culture and way of life if taxpayers weren't funding their entire lifestyle though

Deebles McBeebles

KrustyUCC wrote: »

very true the majority don't want to integrate and are happier living on the outskirts of society

Hard to keep up the culture and way of life if taxpayers weren't funding their entire lifestyle though

Absolutely but can you imagine a politician calling for cuts to, not even just travellers, but anyone who is taking advantage of the welfare system? Its seen as unfair or racist depending on who you ask.

KrustyUCC

Yup that's true as well

Maybe there might be a change in that way of thinking after Peter Casey

I would think that there is a lot of votes there for any government that disincentives long term unemployment

Look after people who lose their jobs for a while absolutely but make sure that people are worse off on welfare than they would be working

Gravelly

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Yup that's true as well

Maybe there might be a change in that way of thinking after Peter Casey

I would think that there is a lot of votes there for any government that disincentives long term unemployment

Look after people who lose their jobs for a while absolutely but make sure that people are worse off on welfare than they would be working

And there’s the key - “people who lose their jobs” - we spoil people who never worked, never will work, and never contribute to society in any way, far too much. It’s long past time that there was a sliding scale of unemployment payments, until, after a certain length of time (say three years) you get to the point where you are fed and housed, but that’s it.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I know all that my argument is that
More integration with travellers = more likely to change negative aspects of the traveller culture such as leaving school early.

I'd agree with that. However, if Travellers genuinely integrated into mainstream society, intermarried with settled people, encouraged their children to finish school and go to university, etc., then so-called "Traveller culture" would cease to exist within a couple of generations. A young man who gets a degree in computer science and goes to work for Google will not come back to the halting site and marry his first cousin.

In other words, integration will quickly put an end to "Traveller culture" and Travellers know that -- which is why they resist integration.

If there is any traveller crime, the line seems to change from anti-travellers that it is not just a high percentage it is all of them.
This only exacerbates the problem.

I for one have never said that all Travellers are criminals, because that is not true. What is true is that a demonstrably higher proportion of individuals within the Traveller community have criminal records. The statistics are indisputable -- Travellers are significantly more likely to be criminals.

The travellers have put themselves in a strange position they rarely interact on a personal level (never mind intermarry) with non-travellers. (DNA testing proves this)
Positive normal relationships need to be built up.
So it is easier to dehumanise them.
The traveller mindset of leaving school early is a major problem.

Agreed, but you seem to be acknowledging now that Travellers' separatist mentality and tradition of consanguineous marriage is responsible for the lack of integration. How would the Traveller community react if a young woman came to her family and said "Sorry, I don't want to marry my cousin, I want to marry a settled man"? I'm sure there would be potentially serious repercussions for her, and for him.

If there is more interaction on a normal level with travellers from non-travellers that is when things will start to improve, education, mindset perception.

You seem to be saying that non-Travellers need to interact more with Travellers so as to normalize relations, right after acknowledging that Travellers rarely interact socially or romantically with settled people. Surely the onus is on Travellers as a self-segregating group to make the first move?

It is a disgrace that there is only over 30k in the island of Ireland and they cannot be properly integrated in society.

We have only further encouraged segregation by granting Travellers ethnic minority status. This only deepens an "us vs them" mentality. They should be told that instead of getting special recognition for their "unique traditions" that they are as Irish as everyone else and that their "traditions" of early school-leaving, early consanguineous marriage, and lifelong welfare dependency coupled with mysterious sources of personal wealth will no longer be tolerated.

Positive relationships and friendships need to be formed in order to build up trust.
Barriers need to be broken down and common interests shared.

That's all very well in theory. But Travellers have such a reputation for criminality and violence that many settled people fear contact with them, for very understandable reasons.

But the way some people are talking you would swear that interacting with travellers will result in death like this US fella when he went to a remote Indian tribe.

Travellers have put up YouTube videos brandishing guns and threatening to murder rival family members. And you think it's entirely irrational to think that interacting with them could have fatal consequences?

gormdubhgorm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Who is at fault for the lack of integration? Is it the country peoples fault as per usual? A more common sense approach by who? Again you expect country people to change to accommodate travelers. What are travelers doing to change their situation?

Re-read again I said both sides.

PlaneSpeeking

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Re-read again I said both sides.

Ok I'll bite - give me ONE positive benefit of me approaching a Traveller or menber of that community ?

What would I and my working, contributing, law abiding community get out of it ?

Serious question - one thing.