Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

gormdubhgorm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

The second quote implies an onus on non-travellers to break the barrier that you yourself claim the travellers have put up.

Telling use of language there.

Why is it telling? The non-travellers are the larger majority so they are the ones the position of power, government, media etc etc.
The as a result of this superior level of influence the onus should be on non-travellers.

On a simplistic level -
How many settled people have traveller mates?

Not many - there is no real interaction.

Deebles McBeebles

Gravelly wrote: »

And there’s the key - “people who lose their jobs” - we spoil people who never worked, never will work, and never contribute to society in any way, far too much. It’s long past time that there was a sliding scale of unemployment payments, until, after a certain length of time (say three years) you get to the point where you are fed and housed, but that’s it.

Absolutely. And it should be said that doesn't just apply to travellers. Not saying you meant it like that but in a thread about travellers it could be taken that way.

Where I'm from there are certain areas where large amounts of settled people have never worked and never plan to work. I'd imagine they are costing a lot more than travellers are. I'm talking generations of work-shy people who do nothing but take. One of them has a penchant for riding a horse along footpaths. Never fu*ckin picks up after it though. I get caught in that situation with a dog and bang, 150 quid please.

gormdubhgorm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Ok I'll bite - give me ONE positive benefit of me approaching a Traveller or menber of that community ?

What would I and my working, contributing, law abiding community get out of it ?

Serious question - one thing.

I can give you many reasons.

Get to know them and take away your fear factor which is implied in your second sentence, for a start.
Then you can gradually change mindsets on both sides through the natural course of interaction and sharing postive aspects of culture.

Also if settled people/non-travellers got to know travellers better the law abiding travellers can be differeniatited from the criminal element.
Plus then the law abiding travellers would be more inclined to help the policing of the criminal element as more trust develops.

Plus as the travellers get more integrated and accepted by the larger Irish community it will lead to the travellers realising the value of education so there will be less disadvantaged/and/or criminal elements in the traveller community as a result.

PlaneSpeeking

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Get to know them and take away your fear factor which is implied in your second sentence, for a start.
Then you can gradually change mindsets on both sides through the natural course of interaction and sharing postive aspects of culture.

Also if settled people/non-travellers got to know travellers better the law abiding travellers can be differeniatited from the criminal element.
Plus the law abiding travellers would be more inclined to help the policing of the crimanal element as more trust develops.

Plus as the travellers get more intergrated and accepted by the larger Irish community it will lead to the travellers realising the value of education so there will be less disadvantaged/and/or criminal elements in the traveller community as a result.

Oh the "fear factor" is well established, given I live down the country.

I'll invite them in for tea so. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Paddy Cow

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Re-read again I said both sides.

It sounds great in theory to get travellers to integrate but HOW would that work when they do not want to integrate.

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Re-read again I said both sides.

No. you said

If there is more interaction on a normal level with travellers from non-travellers that is when things will start to improve, education, mindset perception.

You are putting the onus on country people to interact more with travelers.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is a disgrace that there is only over 30k in the island of Ireland and they cannot be properly integrated in society.
I think there is blame on both sides both on the travellers side and non travellers side.

Where is the blame on the side of country people? Are they responsible for travelers not sending their children to school? For travelers resorting to violence in the first instance? For traveler criminality? Which of are country people responsible for?

sasta le

A good thing about social media is that the general public are becoming more and more aware of how bad the traveling community is

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I can give you many reasons.

Get to know them and take away your fear factor which is implied in your second sentence, for a start.
Then you can gradually change mindsets on both sides through the natural course of interaction and sharing postive aspects of culture.

Also if settled people/non-travellers got to know travellers better the law abiding travellers can be differeniatited from the criminal element.
Plus then the law abiding travellers would be more inclined to help the policing of the criminal element as more trust develops.

Plus as the travellers get more integrated and accepted by the larger Irish community it will lead to the travellers realising the value of education so there will be less disadvantaged/and/or criminal elements in the traveller community as a result.

The fear factor you speak off is well earned. It is up to travelers to change their behaviour to reduce that. Until they do why should country people make an effort?

Paddy Cow

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why is it telling the non-travellers? Are the larger majority so they are the ones the position of power, governement, media etc etc.
The as a result of this superior level of influnce the onus should be on non-travellers.

On a simplistic level -
How many settled people have traveller mates?

Not many - there is no real interaction.

Le sigh. No they don't. You only have to look at the Peter Casey debacle. The media and other politicians were calling him disgraceful etc yet the majority of people commenting on the media agreed with him, which was reflected in him going from 1% in the polls to 23% in the election.

Floppybits

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Ok I'll bite - give me ONE positive benefit of me approaching a Traveller or menber of that community ?

What would I and my working, contributing, law abiding community get out of it ?

Serious question - one thing.

You might get your driveway power washed or tarred or your gutters cleaned. Can't say to what standard or if the price would be competitive?

Rory28

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I can give you many reasons.

Get to know them and take away your fear factor which is implied in your second sentence, for a start.
Then you can gradually change mindsets on both sides through the natural course of interaction and sharing postive aspects of culture.

Also if settled people/non-travellers got to know travellers better the law abiding travellers can be differeniatited from the criminal element.
Plus then the law abiding travellers would be more inclined to help the policing of the criminal element as more trust develops.

Plus as the travellers get more integrated and accepted by the larger Irish community it will lead to the travellers realising the value of education so there will be less disadvantaged/and/or criminal elements in the traveller community as a result.

I would swear from reading this you have never had to deal with them much. The fear factor is just straight up fear from past experiences. How can 'settled' people get to know travellers when they don't want to integrate?

Remember when the Polish first started coming here in great numbers? There was a lot of people saying **** about them because they were new and foreign but as we worked/socialized with them those initial impressions fell by the wayside. The difference is the Polish actually integrated.

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/criminal-assets-bureau-seizes-vehicles-worth-130-000-in-raids-1.3713180

Anyone fancy playing Crime Family or Traveller Family? Since the media won't report which it is. The link is the most detailed article I could find on it.

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why is it telling the non-travellers? Are the larger majority so they are the ones the position of power, governement, media etc etc.
The as a result of this superior level of influnce the onus should be on non-travellers.

what influence do i have as an individual to change this? why should i change my behaviour to accommodate them? They sure as hell wont change to accommodate country people. They need to realise that their culture of no education, marrying young, having large families, general criminality and dependence on social welfare are unsustainable.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

On a simplistic level -
How many settled people have traveller mates?

Not many - there is no real interaction.

Practically all of my mates are people i either went to school or college with or have worked with. So you can understand why i dont have any traveler mates.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I was a witness in a circuit court trial recently and a man of our ethnic community was in front of the judge begging to be let out of prison because he was diagnosed with cancer. Why was he in prison, you might wonder?

Because a sweet old lady gave him the benefit of the doubt and had him do odd jobs around her house that she paid him for, he would pick up bits of shopping etc for her. She was in her 80s I think. Anyway, he didn’t just do odd jobs. He sold her late husbands tools, trailers, lawnmowers, even her car. He robbed her blind, I think the damage exceeded 15k.

His wife took the stand to plead on his behalf saying she’d sell her 2010 car and pay it back to the old woman, and that they would pay a sum a money weekly from their social welfare. He was released.

Funny how there was only talk of repaying the elderly woman when he himself had a terminal illness and didn’t want to die in prison? Water off a ducks back going in there in his full health.

ohnonotgmail

Jasiah Hot Talker wrote: »

I was a witness in a circuit court trial recently and a man of our ethnic community was in front of the judge begging to be let out of prison because he was diagnosed with cancer. Why was he in prison, you might wonder?

Because a sweet old lady gave him the benefit of the doubt and had him do odd jobs around her house that she paid him for, he would pick up bits of shopping etc for her. She was in her 80s I think. Anyway, he didn’t just do odd jobs. He sold her late husbands tools, trailers, lawnmowers, even her car. He robbed her blind, I think the damage exceeded 15k.

His wife took the stand to plead on his behalf saying she’d sell her 2010 car and pay it back to the old woman, and that they would pay a sum a money weekly from their social welfare. He was released.

Funny how there was only talk of repaying the elderly woman when he himself had a terminal illness and didn’t want to die in prison? Water off a ducks back going in there in his full health.

i guarantee that woman never seen a penny

tayto lover

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I can give you many reasons.

Get to know them and take away your fear factor which is implied in your second sentence, for a start.
Then you can gradually change mindsets on both sides through the natural course of interaction and sharing postive aspects of culture.

Also if settled people/non-travellers got to know travellers better the law abiding travellers Ccan be differeniatited from the criminal element.
Plus then the law abiding travellers would be more inclined to help the policing of the criminal element as more trust develops.

Plus as the travellers get more integrated and accepted by the larger Irish community it will lead to the travellers realising the value of education so there will be less disadvantaged/and/or criminal elements in the traveller community as a result.

What has Pavee Point achieved in this area?
They are the organisation funded by the taxpayer to help travellers integrate, educate, find employment, seek human rights and seek housing. Their motto seems to be " nothing about them without them". So what have they achieved?
Maybe you could inform us? I'm all ears.

Gravelly

Rory28 wrote: »

I would swear from reading this you have never had to deal with them much. The fear factor is just straight up fear from past experiences. How can 'settled' people get to know travellers when they don't want to integrate?

Remember when the Polish first started coming here in great numbers? There was a lot of people saying **** about them because they were new and foreign but as we worked/socialized with them those initial impressions fell by the wayside. The difference is the Polish actually integrated.

The Polish are actually a great example - I doubt I know a single Irish person that doesn't have at least one Polish friend, I know several Irish people married to Poles, and most of us work with and socialise with Polish people all the time.

Now how come us terrible bigoted "settled people" could mix so well, in such a short time, with people from another country, with different traditions and language, yet we can't do the same with travellers?

Could it possibly be that it is the travellers fault, and not ours?

Rory28

Gravelly wrote: »

Could it possibly be that it is the travellers fault, and not ours?

Now you're a racist. I think.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why is it telling the non-travellers? Are the larger majority so they are the ones the position of power, governement, media etc etc.
The as a result of this superior level of influnce the onus should be on non-travellers.

People in positions of power and influence in politics and the media, from Michael D. Higgins to Ryan Tubridy, will bend over backwards to praise Travellers' unique traditions and culture, welcome recognition of their ethnic minority status, etc. Miriam O'Callaghan came out and posed for pictures with Margaret Cash and her children.

However, few Travellers live in Dublin 4 or in the vicinity of Áras an Uachtaráin.

This means that the people in positions of power and influence are also the least likely to be encountering Travellers on a daily basis, and so they can afford to have a romanticized view of them and lecture the rest of us about our "racism."

Lefty Bicek

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why is it telling the non-travellers are the larger majority so they are the ones the position of power, governement, media etc etc.

How many settled people have traveller mates?

Well, how many settled people have power, government, and media mates ?



Anyway you said 'non-travellers'.

Now you're squirming about the 'power, government, media etc etc', which is a deflection anyway, because that is just another minority (elite, this time) with which most people have little enough contact. You can tell that by how out of touch they are.

Your last comment shows what you meant originally is what you were called out on. So please, no more waffling.

But IF said elite were to go about breaking down the barrier that YOU said travellers have put up... uproar.

ohnonotgmail

Gravelly wrote: »

The Polish are actually a great example - I doubt I know a single Irish person that doesn't have at least one Polish friend, I know several Irish people married to Poles, and most of us work with and socialise with Polish people all the time.

Now how come us terrible bigoted "settled people" could mix so well, in such a short time, with people from another country, with different traditions and language, yet we can't do the same with travellers?

Could it possibly be that it is the travellers fault, and not ours?

As Fr Ted would say "they're a great bunch of lads". They came over here with the right intentions and fitted right in. The Lithuanians i know are the same. Just dont starting drinking vodka with either group. I think i can still feel the hangovers.

gormdubhgorm

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

Agreed, but you seem to be acknowledging now that Travellers' separatist mentality and tradition of consanguineous marriage is responsible for the lack of integration. How would the Traveller community react if a young woman came to her family and said "Sorry, I don't want to marry my cousin, I want to marry a settled man"? I'm sure there would be potentially serious repercussions for her, and for him.

The same things happen with interracial marriages, people eventually become used to them. But it will be tough for the first intrepid few.

We have only further encouraged segregation by granting Travellers ethnic minority status. This only deepens an "us vs them" mentality.

I agree with this part it only increases the sense of 'other'
They are Irish as far as I am concerned that live in caravans/houses.

That's all very well in theory. But Travellers have such a reputation for criminality and violence that many settled people fear contact with them, for very understandable reasons.
Travellers have put up YouTube videos brandishing guns and threatening to murder rival family members. And you think it's entirely irrational to think that interacting with them could have fatal consequences?
Travellers have put up YouTube videos brandishing guns and threatening to murder rival family members. And you think it's entirely irrational to think that interacting with them could have fatal consequences?

That fear really needs to be broken down not all travellers are going to shoot and rob you. In the 'culture' machismo guff is all part of it.
Again think of the worst non-traveller disadvantaged areas in Dublin there are a lot of similarities between them and the Travellers.
Marrying young, not seeing the need for education beyond a basic point, high rates of crime and mental health issues

The same methods that try to improve Traveller mindset if thier specific major barriers are broken down, if people chill out and get to know each other.

As for saying that Traveller culture would die if there was intermarrying from settled people.
I doubt this because in history we see how the Anglo-Irish developed who ended up 'being more Irish then the Irish themselves' etc etc.

Paddy Cow

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I can give you many reasons.

Get to know them and take away your fear factor which is implied in your second sentence, for a start.
Then you can gradually change mindsets on both sides through the natural course of interaction and sharing postive aspects of culture.

Also if settled people/non-travellers got to know travellers better the law abiding travellers can be differeniatited from the criminal element.
Plus then the law abiding travellers would be more inclined to help the policing of the criminal element as more trust develops.

Where are you going to make friends with these travellers when they do not want to integrate? I dare you to walk into a halting site and try to be their friend.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus as the travellers get more integrated and accepted by the larger Irish community it will lead to the travellers realising the value of education so there will be less disadvantaged/and/or criminal elements in the traveller community as a result.

Traveller kids have been integrating with settled kids for years in school, GAA and boxing clubs. The problem is they are with drawn at around 15 by older travellers so that they don't become too integrated with settled people. Travellers girls are married off as teens before they can develop their own independent identity.

PlaneSpeeking

Gravelly wrote: »

The Polish are actually a great example - I doubt I know a single Irish person that doesn't have at least one Polish friend, I know several Irish people married to Poles, and most of us work with and socialise with Polish people all the time.

Now how come us terrible bigoted "settled people" could mix so well, in such a short time, with people from another country, with different traditions and language, yet we can't do the same with travellers?

Could it possibly be that it is the travellers fault, and not ours?

I've said many a time on here, large Polish community in my town and a credit to the human race every one of them. Send more, it would be a Godsend.

The special ethnic folk ? Yeah avoid the town centre on the days the court sits.

iamwhoiam

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Ok I'll bite - give me ONE positive benefit of me approaching a Traveller or menber of that community ?

What would I and my working, contributing, law abiding community get out of it ?

Serious question - one thing.

I have a great relationship with a traveller lady . We have known each other for about 30 years now . She calls to me about every 2 months and we learn from each other . I enjoy her chats and catch up
My daughter lives a few doors down from a settled traveller family with three gorgeous kids . He is first out to shovel snow for his eldery neighbour , always helps with clearing up leaves and tidying the area .
A few doors down from that family is a non traveller family with two new cars and everything is the finest and the best . Their two children are the bane of everyones life as they are spoiled unruly brats
I take people how they are not who they are because I know which family I would choose to live beside and which would benefit me as a neighbour

gormdubhgorm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Well, how many settled people have power, government, and media mates ?



Anyway you said 'non-travellers'.

Now you're squirming about the 'power, government, media etc etc', which is a deflection anyway, because that is just another minority (elite, this time) with which most people have little enough contact. You can tell that by how out of touch they are.

Your last comment shows what you meant originally is what you were called out on. So please, no more waffling.

But IF said elite were to go about breaking down the barrier that YOU said travellers have put up... uproar.

It is not defelction.You seem to be getting either intentionally/unintentionally confused.
The majority in Ireland are non-travellers = they are the ones with influence education etc etc = that influence and education could/should be used for positive integration. But they are the ones with the major fears which is a part of the reason the travellers have not integrated.
The non-travellers are the ones who make the law and create the media headlines.

Travellers = very clannish, law abiding ones have strong moral codes, but fearful of discrimination. If the non-travellers are seen to make an effort to get to know them then they will be more open. who
There should be a soft move into the traveller culture by the non-travellers.
A cultural exchange. Rather then scaremongering and scapegoating on either side.

Nothing will change otherwise.

Unless of course you would like another alternative send in the Irish Army (dawn raids) and it works out at about five bullets per solider? Then they would be cleaned out, problem solved.

ohnonotgmail

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Where are you going to make friends with these travellers when they do not want to integrate? I dare you to walk into a halting site and try to be their friend.

I reckon you would end up like yer man in India who was riddled with arrows by the natives.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The same things happen with interracial marriages, people eventually become used to them. But it will be tough for the first intrepid few.

Ireland has largely accepted interfaith marriage, interracial marriage, and most recently same-sex marriage. But I can guarantee that few young settled Irish men would consider trying to go out with a Traveller girl -- for the simple reason that her father/brothers/uncles/cousins wouldn't take too kindly to it and anything could happen to that young man and his family.

That fear really needs to be broken down not all travellers are going to shoot and rob you. In the 'culture' machismo guff is all part of it.

Numerous settled people have been assaulted or robbed by Travellers, and Travellers have murdered members of their own families in cold blood at weddings. To suggest that it's all harmless machismo guff is wrong.

As for saying that Traveller culture would die if there was intermarrying from settled people.
I doubt this because in history we see how the Anglo-Irish developed who ended up 'being more Irish then the Irish themselves' etc etc.

Well, the Anglo-Irish have long since assimilated with the native populations, and today there's no real distinction. The same thing would happen to Travellers if they started intermarrying with settled people. Their entire identity is predicated on segregation from the settled communities, and if segregation were replaced by integration, they would quickly become indistinguishable from everyone else.

Gravelly

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There should be a soft move into the traveller culture by the non-travellers.

In what way? Should we make a few call-out videos on youtube? Rob a few elderly people? Marry our cousins at 15?

Perhaps, given that we fund their lifestyle, and are the main victims of their criminal enterprises, the travellers should make "a soft move" into our culture, by acting like civilised people, and then there won't be a problem.

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not defelction.You seem to be getting either intentionally/unintentionally confused.
The majority in Ireland are non-travellers = they are the ones with influence education etc etc = that influence and education could/should be used for positive integration. But they are the ones with the major fears which is a part of the reason the travellers have not integrated.
The non-travellers are the ones who make the law and create the media headlines.

Travellers = very clannish, law abiding ones have strong moral codes, but fearful of discrimination. If the non-travellers are seen to make an effort to get to know them then they will be more open. who
There should be a soft move into the traveller culture by the non-travellers.
A cultural exchange. Rather then scaremongering and scapegoating on either side.

Nothing will change otherwise.

The only thing that travelers are afraid is that their children might get an education and realise what a terrible lifestyle they live. Their children might actually get proper jobs and their daughters wont rush into marriage at the first opportunity.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There should be a soft move into the traveller culture by the non-travellers.
A cultural exchange.

I have to ask as a serious question -- have you ever interacted with actual Travellers?

Honestly, you are coming off sounding like an earnest sociology or psychology student here, full of textbook ideas about integration and cultural exchange, but a bit unaware of what it's like to deal with actual Travellers.

sasta le

Why isn’t anything done about the abuse of children in the traveling community?

gwalk

sasta le wrote: »

Why isn’t anything done about the abuse of children in the traveling community?

T'is Culture, boss

Lefty Bicek

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not defelction.You seem to be getting either intentionally/unintentionally confused.
.

I'm not confused about anything. You wrote...

non-travellers? Are the larger majority so they are the ones the position of power, governement, media etc etc.

That is just false, as others have pointed out. Sly, almost.

Even if it were true it matters not, because since, as you said...

The travellers have put themselves in a strange position they rarely interact on a personal level (never mind intermarry) with non-travellers.

They have agency.

They are the ones with the inferior educational attainment, inferior health outcomes and life expectancy, inferior attitudes to women's reproductive rights etc etc etc

They need to get their acts together, and they don't need to be mates with me to do it.

Floppybits

What does a soft move to Traveler culture mean? Why does the majority have to make that move? Why can't the Traveler move to the settle way?

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

sasta le wrote: »

Why isn’t anything done about the abuse of children in the traveling community?

As I said before, if a settled person took his 12-year-old daughter out of school and then married her off to a cousin when she was 16, it would be a national scandal.

When Travellers do it, we're told that we have to respect their culture and traditions.

The government recently proposed raising the minimum age of marriage to 18, with no exceptions to be granted by the courts. Travellers came out in protest, calling the move "anti-Traveller," and AFAIK the government has backed down.

Danielle Maughan, who appeared in the hit television show My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, got married the day after her 16th birthday. This is seen as entirely normal in Traveller culture, and few dare criticize it for fear of appearing "racist."

ohnonotgmail

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

As I said before, if a settled person took his 12-year-old daughter out of school and then married her off to a cousin when she was 16, it would be a national scandal.

When Travellers do it, we're told that we have to respect their culture and traditions.

The government recently proposed raising the minimum age of marriage to 18, with no exceptions to be granted by the courts. Travellers came out in protest, calling the move "anti-Traveller," and AFAIK the government has backed down.

Danielle Maughan, who appeared in the hit television show My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, got married the day after her 16th birthday. This is seen as entirely normal in Traveller culture, and few dare criticize it for fear of appearing "racist."

even if the government did as planned they would just get married up the north.

stuff.hunter

...quite cant get it, marriage at 15 and, I presume that theres some kind of 'physical contact' involved ( ) after which as far as I know, is illegal and being prosecuted or I'm wrong and sex with 15yrs old is OK now

KrustyUCC

I don't think that applies when they are married

"Ireland statutory rape law is violated when an individual has consensual sexual contact with a person under age 17 who is not their spouse"

https://www.ageofconsent.net/world/ireland

I'm open to correction though

ohnonotgmail

stuff.hunter wrote: »

...quite cant get it, marriage at 15 and, I presume that theres some kind of 'physical contact' involved ( ) after which as far as I know, is illegal and being prosecuted or I'm wrong and sex with 15yrs old is OK now

the minimum marriage in ireland is 18. You can only get married under 18 with a court order. In northern ireland the minimum age is also 18 BUT 16 and 17 year olds can get married with their parents consent. Once a person has married they are considered of legal age to have sex.

Gravelly

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I don't think that applies when they are married

"Ireland statutory rape law is violated when an individual has consensual sexual contact with a person under age 17 who is not their spouse"

https://www.ageofconsent.net/world/ireland

I'm open to correction though

Wonder if that clause was put in especially to accommodate travellers?

thegetawaycar

Welfare cuts are the only thing that will force Travellers (or the won't work brigade) to engage.

Anyone who thinks that the money from Welfare is used on essentials is not paying attention to all the charities that give food, clothing and shelter to the scroungers (not just travellers).

If people don't want to cut the welfare payment fine then incentivise it, have a very low payment and for taking part in reading and writing courses get supplements, childrens allowance only while children are in formal schooling etc...

The councils are afraid of travellers, ring a council with a complaint on your neighbour over suspected fraud and then ring them on a traveller with the same issue and note the differences. Next election I'll be asking all politicians that call to my door what is their take on the entitlement culture, what they plan on doing about it and basing my vote on this.
If many others do the same it might improve.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Gravelly wrote: »

Wonder if that clause was put in especially to accommodate travellers?

Historically, the main reason for the court exemption was to allow an underage pregnant girl to marry the father of her unborn child and thus avoid the stigma of becoming an unmarried mother.

However, i'd say the main applicants for court exemptions these days are Travellers.

If a court grants permission for a 16-year-old girl to marry, it would naturally be inconsistent to prosecute her husband for having sex with her. So that's why the age of consent doesn't not apply to married couples.

Gravelly

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

Historically, the main reason for the court exemption was to allow an underage pregnant girl to marry the father of her unborn child and thus avoid the stigma of becoming an unmarried mother.

However, i'd say the main applicants for court exemptions these days are Travellers.

If a court grants permission for a 16-year-old girl to marry, it would naturally be inconsistent to prosecute her husband for having sex with her. So that's why the age of consent doesn't not apply to married couples.

A paedophillia licence, basically.

ohnonotgmail

Gravelly wrote: »

Wonder if that clause was put in especially to accommodate travellers?

Unlikely. Marrying young was the norm for all people 100 years ago. Travelers just stick to the old tradition of marrying young.

ohnonotgmail

Gravelly wrote: »

A paedophillia licence, basically.

Until very recently a marriage licence was also a rape licence. No man could be convicted of raping his wife.

gormdubhgorm

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

I have to ask as a serious question -- have you ever interacted with actual Travellers?

Honestly, you are coming off sounding like an earnest sociology or psychology student here, full of textbook ideas about integration and cultural exchange, but a bit unaware of what it's like to deal with actual Travellers.

Yes I have.
And for the most part they were sound like anyone else.
I didn't get robbed, shot, or was even threatened to be shot.

Which is is why I said in my original post I was only ever robbed and threatened by non-travellers. Does that mean I should be more afraid of non-travellers?

When you break it down into its simplest for no interaction between groups, leads to fear of the unknown, which leads to prejudice, stereotyping and sensationalism.

I don't know why for the life of me that a more common sense approach is not taken, of people just getting to know each other as people.

All the other stuff the government has tired over the years has has largely failed.

Rory28

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

people just getting to know each other as people.

how can we do that if we dont work with them or go to school with them?

CinemaGuy45

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yes I have.
And for the most part they were sound like anyone else.
I didn't get robbed, shot, or was even threatened to be shot.

Which is is why I said in my original post I was only ever robbed and threatened by non-travellers. Does that mean I should be more afraid of non-travellers?

When you break it down into its simplest for no interaction between groups, leads to fear of the unknown, which leads to prejudice, stereotyping and sensationalism.

I don't know why for the life of me that a more common sense approach is not taken, of people just getting to know each other as people.

All the other stuff the government has tired over the years has has largely failed.

I am convinced your just a wind up to provoke anger as all your posts in this thread are insane.

This is the reality.

I have had enough interactions with these people that if only every met one more that would be one too many.:mad:

Jerichoholic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yes I have.
And for the most part they were sound like anyone else.
I didn't get robbed, shot, or was even threatened to be shot.

Which is is why I said in my original post I was only ever robbed and threatened by non-travellers. Does that mean I should be more afraid of non-travellers?

When you break it down into its simplest for no interaction between groups, leads to fear of the unknown, which leads to prejudice, stereotyping and sensationalism.

I don't know why for the life of me that a more common sense approach is not taken, of people just getting to know each other as people.

All the other stuff the government has tired over the years has has largely failed.

Go for a drink in a pub when travelers are there, see what you think about it then.