Official Conor McGregor thread (part 6) *Read Mod Note in Post 1* Revised 13-01-19

Tazzimus

spix wrote: »

Well, it was nearly broken and definitely damaged, it was a clean submission win, not a neck crank which could have been peeled off. I usually defend mcgregor but the lack of respect to cowboy and perry is crazy. They're both extremely dangerous fighters.

Have a wrestler apply a fulcrum choke on you and peel it off, before you think your head is gonna pop off.

Mellor

spix wrote: »

He's 1-1 at 155lbs and hasn't shown he can definitely consistently win at that weight, he did skip the whole queue to face Alvarez.

Khabib is undefeated and a arguably the best grappler in MMA. Holding a loss to Khabib against someone is bizarre.
Conor has only had title fights at 155. If he climbed up on unranked guys his win rate would be much more consistent.

spix wrote: »

it was a clean submission win, not a neck crank which could have been peeled off.

Neck cranks can be just peeled off now? Good to know I guess.

spix

Mellor wrote: »

Khabib is undefeated and a arguably the best grappler in MMA. Holding a loss to Khabib against someone is bizarre.
Conor has only had title fights at 155. If he climbed up on unranked guys his win rate would be much more consistent.


Neck cranks can be just peeled off now? Good to know I guess.

He's undefeated but its still a stoppage loss. Al + Barboza were not stopped.

Conor had no resistance to the choke, he could have at least tried to push khabibs arms up over his face, he just accepted it. It looked like he went towards khabibs hands once to try separate his grip but changed his mind. I watch pretty much every ufc card and you very often see people in worse submission situations where you think there is no hope they can get out of this, but they still at least try and are sometimes successful. Conor just doesn't seem to be able to handle those kind of situations well at all, I blame his preparation. Too much yes men around who are very unlikely to put him in a choke.

Subcomandante Marcos

spix wrote: »

Conor had no resistance to the choke, he could have at least tried to push khabibs arms up over his face, he just accepted it.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to escape an RNC/Fulcrum choke.

spix

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Spoken like someone who's never tried to escape an RNC/Fulcrum choke.

Conor is a world class fighter, on the biggest stage. Other fighters on undercards getting paid peanuts escape chokes where the arm is under the chin. That's much harder to get out of but some still manage and most try. Diaz + khabib, once the arms were around his throat/neck there was no attempt at all to get out of it.

This fight had several situations like this, went to a decision. Does Conor tap here, I think the answer is yes. The guy in yellow was paid $12,500

dave1982

I would usually be the first to slam Conor but tbf I don't think he tapped early, I have never been in that hold before but I assume with the strength of Khabib Conor must have felt his whole face jaw neck was gonna break.

I think Cowboy is a good for Conor, Cowboy will make him look good, although I'd like to see Aldo get a payday

Jim Bob Scratcher

I'd like to see the fight that never happened, him and Dos Anjos

Tazzimus

spix wrote: »

Conor is a world class fighter, on the biggest stage. Other fighters on undercards getting paid peanuts escape chokes where the arm is under the chin. That's much harder to get out of but some still manage and most try. Diaz + khabib, once the arms were around his throat/neck there was no attempt at all to get out of it.

I don't think there's much debate on whether he tried to escape, there was no try. I'd say it's cos he was bolloxed and didn't have the energy for it.

On the other side of it, you have someone as strong as Khabib basically sitting on your back trying to twist your head off. If he started fighting it there was a good chance he would have been belly down with Khabib still on his back raining down god knows what.

However, "Just peeling it off" is not a valid defence for a RNC/Fulcrum choke..

Mellor

spix wrote: »

He's undefeated but its still a stoppage loss. Al + Barboza were not stopped.

That's a very simplistic view of MMA.
A stoppage vrs decision win isn't a measure of ability.

Conor had no resistance to the choke, he could have at least tried to push khabibs arms up over his face, he just accepted it. It looked like he went towards khabibs hands once to try separate his grip but changed his mind.

And that's a simplistic view of jiu jitsu. It's natural, to think to easy to just do X or Y. But it's a different story when you're drowning.

Too much yes men around who are very unlikely to put him in a choke.

I've no doubt that some lads in the are entourage playing the yes man to gain favour. But you're mad if you think brown and black belt training partners are going easy on the mats.

Mellor

spix wrote: »

Other fighters on undercards getting paid peanuts escape chokes where the arm is under the chin. That's much harder to get out of but some still manage and most try.

This fight had several situations like this, went to a decision. Does Conor tap here, I think the answer is yes. The guy in yellow was paid $12,500

Being under the chin isn't harder to escape by default. It's a it's one of a number of variable

Maybe it's a bad split second from that fight. But that's not a bad choke. It's not under the chin, it's not closing the carotid, not cranking the neck. It looks bad because of the bodylock.

yourdeadwright

Mellor wrote: »

Being under the chin isn't harder to escape by default. It's a it's one of a number of variable

Maybe it's a bad split second from that fight. But that's not a bad choke. It's not under the chin, it's not closing the carotid, not cranking the neck. It looks bad because of the bodylock.

People are idiots form behind there keyboard's
If you have ever grappled and a decent level grappler has you in a neck crank you'll have some idea of how McGregor felt, now multiple that by 50 ,

Khabib isn't some blue or purple belt who is your team mate that your rolling with in training ,He is a world class grappler on your back trying to rip your head off, If you question McGregor's tap turn off your computer take a stroll down to your local gym and ask one of the instructors to show you the choke/crank , Then come back and let us know how it felt,

spix

Mellor wrote: »

Being under the chin isn't harder to escape by default. It's a it's one of a number of variable

Maybe it's a bad split second from that fight. But that's not a bad choke. It's not under the chin, it's not closing the carotid, not cranking the neck. It looks bad because of the bodylock.

I just chose a random screenshot from that fight where he was in a somewhat dangerous position, was likely worse several times, I know there was several submission attempts but he never tapped and managed to get out of it. Be honest, can you imagine Conor being in a position like that which doesn't result in a tap. There is ways to at least try to get out of everything if you want to. Khabib lets go of submission attempts very easily, if Conor put up any resistance he could've survived it. It was a bit sad to just see him give up and tap seeing how he started round 4 looking full of energy.

Tazzimus

spix wrote: »

I just chose a random screenshot from that fight where he was in a somewhat dangerous position, was likely worse several times, I know there was several submission attempts but he never tapped and managed to get out of it. Be honest, can you imagine Conor being in a position like that which doesn't result in a tap. There is ways to at least try to get out of everything if you want to. Khabib lets go of submission attempts very easily, if Conor put up any resistance he could've survived it. It was a bit sad to just see him give up and tap seeing how he started round 4 looking full of energy.

I'm curious as to what you think he could have done to lessen the pain of that choke?
I'd rather a RNC any day of the week compared to that.

LollipopJimmy

Tazzimus wrote: »

I'm curious as to what you think he could have done to lessen the pain of that choke?
I'd rather a RNC any day of the week compared to that.

I got caught in one yesterday when drilling escapes from the RNC, my jaw is still sore

Tazzimus

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I got caught in one yesterday when drilling escapes from the RNC, my jaw is still sore

Had a fella neck crank me "enthusiastically" when he couldn't get the elbow under my chin.
Thought I'd tough it out and he'd burn his arms out; That lasted about 4 seconds before I tapped. The sore jaw lasted a lot longer though

yourdeadwright

Tazzimus wrote: »

Had a fella neck crank me "enthusiastically" when he couldn't get the elbow under my chin.
Thought I'd tough it out and he'd burn his arms out; That lasted about 4 seconds before I tapped. The sore jaw lasted a lot longer though

At least with a choke the ref will save you when you go out, some neck crank's feel like your head is about to pop off,

I hate them much prefer a choke and can actually fight off a choke better at time ,

Mellor

spix wrote: »

Be honest, can you
imagine Conor being in a position like that which doesn't result in a tap. There is ways to at least try to get out of everything if you want to.

There are ways to escape every submissions.
Doesn't mean you can or should escape every submission.

Khabib lets go of submission attempts very easily, if Conor put up any resistance he could've survived.

Khabib was still trying to rip his head off after the tap. "Letiting go easy" wasn't on the agenda that night.

yourdeadwright

Mellor wrote: »

There are ways to escape every submissions.
Doesn't mean you can or should escape every submission.
[quite]Khabib lets go of submission attempts very easily, if Conor put up any resistance he could've survived.

Khabib was still trying to rip his head off after the tap. "Letiting go easy" was on the agenda that night.[/QUOTE]

100% Khabib lets subs go on guys who he knows he can just beat at will , With Connor he was never letting go ,

Subcomandante Marcos

Khabib wasn't juat trying to win that fight with the crank. He was trying to break Conor's jaw, and I'd say he wasn't far off it.

darced

I guess I'm in the minority in believing Conor tapped quickly and easily, we seen it before with Diaz lads, no attempt to escape. I don't believe for a second he doesn't fight those subs if he is fresh, he just does not have heart in those positions when he is tired.

spix

darced wrote: »

I guess I'm in the minority in believing Conor tapped quickly and easily, we seen it before with Diaz lads, no attempt to escape. I don't believe for a second he doesn't fight those subs if he is fresh, he just does not have heart in those positions when he is tired.

I'm not sure he was that tired, definitely not as tired as he was in the diaz fight. He started the round with alot of energy and was jumping over the cage a few second later. I think he just didn't want to be on the ground with khabib anymore, not enough grappling experience in real fights to have confidence to get out the position he was in without taking further damage so he gave up without trying to get out of it.

spix

yourdeadwright wrote: »

100% Khabib lets subs go on guys who he knows he can just beat at will , With Connor he was never letting go ,

But if Conor didn't tap and managed to show some resistance, he could have let go so he wouldn't burn his arms out. He appeared to let go of a kimura earlier for that reason.

Mellor

darced wrote: »

I guess I'm in the minority in believing Conor tapped quickly and easily, we seen it before with Diaz lads, no attempt to escape.

I don't think people are saying he fought with everything he had. It's more the notion that "it wasn't under the chin", or that a crank isn't a real submission.
Tough Int it out is pointless, unless you have some sort of escape to work.

Useful.Idiot

darced wrote: »

we seen it before with Diaz lads, no attempt to escape.

Ah come on, there was no escaping that one. Diaz countered every single defensive move Conor made on the ground then flattened him out and sunk the choke in proper. Only options he had was tapping or going unconscious.

darced

Useful.Idiot wrote: »

Ah come on, there was no escaping that one. Diaz countered every single defensive move Conor made on the ground then flattened him out and sunk the choke in proper. Only options he had was tapping or going unconscious.

We have seen people escape that position countless times. Conor was gassed and looking for a way out, he made no attempt to esacpe.

Kirby

darced wrote: »

I guess I'm in the minority in believing Conor tapped quickly and easily, we seen it before with Diaz lads, no attempt to escape. I don't believe for a second he doesn't fight those subs if he is fresh, he just does not have heart in those positions when he is tired.

Fatigue makes cowards of us all. Never were truer words spoken.

"Heart" has nothing to do with it. I'm 100% with you that Conor would have tried to fight it off if fresh. But he wasn't fresh. He was knackered.

The spirit might be willing, but the body doesn't care. Have you never pushed yourself so hard you could barely stand? Been so exhausted that even normal things become incredibly difficult? Get to that point and I guarantee you will tap. No amount of "heart" will beat exhaustion.

Tazzimus

darced wrote: »

We have seen people escape that position countless times. Conor was gassed and looking for a way out, he made no attempt to esacpe.

He wasn't escaping it.
Diaz is much better on the ground than he is and he knows that.
There was an element of giving up at that stage, but even if that was round one I'd say it would have been the same result.

Autecher

I think Rogan has been reading this thread, he said this yesterday.

"He did not tap prematurely," Rogan said on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. "He did not defend it though. Here's the deal. He was done, he was beaten down. Khabib f**ked him up. Khabib smashed him.

"There was a lot of people who don’t train who think that that was something that you shouldn’t tap to. They are out of their f**king minds. That is what is called ‘a fulcrum choke’. It’s not necessarily a choke but it does choke you and it really feels like your ****ing head is going to pop off.
"What he's doing is wrapping around the face and you don't even have to go under the jaw. You can get it on the chin, especially if you're as strong as Khabib. Then you clamp your hands together and you're pressing your forearm against his back. And Khabib is so strong. He's been grappling since he was a baby. All his muscles are designed to squeeze and crush people".

"If you look at what Conor did, Conor just waited until he couldn’t take it anymore more and tapped. Both of his arms were down. He was getting his neck cranked and he didn't defend with two on one. That was a perfect example of the fulcrum choke. It's a neck crank. It's a choke, there's a lot of **** going on there. It doesn’t have to be under the chin, it can be on the face and you’re going to get f**ked up."

darced

cliggg wrote: »

I think Rogan has been reading this thread, he said this yesterday.

"He did not tap prematurely," Rogan said on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast."He did not defend it though. Here's the deal. He was done, he was beaten down. Khabib f**ked him up. Khabib smashed him.

"There was a lot of people who don’t train who think that that was something that you shouldn’t tap to. They are out of their f**king minds. That is what is called ‘a fulcrum choke’. It’s not necessarily a choke but it does choke you and it really feels like your ****ing head is going to pop off.
"What he's doing is wrapping around the face and you don't even have to go under the jaw. You can get it on the chin, especially if you're as strong as Khabib. Then you clamp your hands together and you're pressing your forearm against his back. And Khabib is so strong. He's been grappling since he was a baby. All his muscles are designed to squeeze and crush people".

"If you look at what Conor did, Conor just waited until he couldn’t take it anymore more and tapped. Both of his arms were down. He was getting his neck cranked and he didn't defend with two on one. That was a perfect example of the fulcrum choke. It's a neck crank. It's a choke, there's a lot of **** going on there. It doesn’t have to be under the chin, it can be on the face and you’re going to get f**ked up."

If you don't defend the sub you are tapping early in my book. Of course when he is getting neck cranked against Khabib or choked against Diaz he will get his jaw dislocated or choked unconscious if he does nothing.

Og81

darced wrote: »

If you don't defend the sub you are tapping early in my book. Of course when he is getting neck cranked against Khabib or choked against Diaz he will get his jaw dislocated or choked unconscious if he does nothing.

But whats being said is that he didnt defend the choke. He tried to fight it off(the choke itself) by wriggling and trying to take khabib out of position but didnt try defend before the choke was applied and he was in a vulnerable position.