Official Conor McGregor thread (part 6) *Read Mod Note in Post 1* Revised 13-01-19

spix

The Nal wrote: »

12-6 elbows, grabbing shorts, knees, grabbing the cage, low blows, the lot.

There was no 12-6 elbows, anyone who says that doesnt know what a 12-6 elbow is. Putting toes in the fence is a natural reaction, everyone does it by accident. There was no intentional low blows, most were actually toes into the stomach and just looked like low blows. Yes he grabbed the shorts but khabib also grabbed his. Anything else?

Perifect

spix wrote: »

Maybe because he thought he was about to finish it, doesn't mean he was going to be successful. As the video shows he really tried to finish it after the knee, the knee didn't make him lose the position he already had, didn't alter his grip and didn't hurt him as he called to the referee immediately after it. Commentators are right, it was an illegal knee but that doesn't mean it was to 'cheat' or that it had any affect on anything, it was just Conor saying FU to khabib for calling to Dana.

How do you know this? Did you talk to McGregor about it? In all sports, cheating is done to gain an advantage. This doesn't look any different!

EagererBeaver

Tazzimus wrote: »

Yep, only man to ever cheat in an MMA match.

Would be a bit weird if he started complaining Greg Hardy in the McGregor thread though, wouldn't it?

Perifect

spix wrote: »

There was no 12-6 elbows, anyone who says that doesnt know what a 12-6 elbow is. Putting toes in the fence is a natural reaction, everyone does it by accident. There was no intentional low blows, most were actually toes into the stomach and just looked like low blows. Yes he grabbed the shorts but khabib also grabbed his. Anything else?

If you're explaining, you're losing.

It looks like the cheating prolonged the fight, it's a much bigger list of incidents than I knew about!

The Nal

spix wrote: »

There was no 12-6 elbows, anyone who says that doesnt know what a 12-6 elbow is.

There were 2 or 3 to the back of the head.

spix

Perifect wrote: »

How do you know this? Did you talk to McGregor about it? In all sports, cheating is done to gain an advantage. This doesn't look any different!

Because the video proves he done it after khabib shouted dana, why didn't he do it before that, he was in that same position for a good few seconds beforehand. The video also proves there was no advantage given by the knee. It clearly wasn't intentional cheating and was actually a reaction to khabib calling to dana.

Perifect

spix wrote: »

Because the video proves he done it after khabib shouted dana, why didn't he do it before that, he was in that same position for a good few seconds beforehand. The video also proves there was no advantage given by the knee. It clearly wasn't intentional cheating and was actually a reaction to khabib calling to dana.

So you are just guessing. To me, it looks like he knew he was in deep trouble and it was a desperate move to save himself. He didn't accidentally knee Khabib in the head so it was intentional cheating.

Tazzimus

The Nal wrote: »

Well he got away with it so you can't fault him there. No issue with pushing the rules to the limits in sport. It does show desperation though.

John Jones must be awful desperate in all his fights so.

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Would be a bit weird if he started complaining Greg Hardy in the McGregor thread though, wouldn't it?

Wouldn't be the strangest thing to be mentioned in this thread to be fair.

Perifect wrote: »

So you are just guessing. To me, it looks like he knew he was in deep trouble and it was a desperate move to save himself. He didn't accidentally knee Khabib in the head so it was intentional cheating.

That Kimura wasn't being finished so he wasn't in too much trouble from it.

Mellor

Rory28 wrote: »

He was handled with ease. What difference does that 1st round mean if he couldnt even land a punch? He was dead on his feet in the later rounds.

Well it meant Khabib didn't land a punch either. Grappling isn't particularly effective if you can't strike or attack.

Perifect

Tazzimus wrote: »

That Kimura wasn't being finished so he wasn't in too much trouble from it.

Did the knee prevent Khabib from finishing it? We'll never know.

EagererBeaver

Tazzimus wrote: »

Wouldn't be the strangest thing to be mentioned in this thread to be fair.

That's true

spix

The Nal wrote: »

There were 2 or 3 to the back of the head.

I only saw 1 and Khabib was in motion so it just happened to land there, he could've been aiming for the ear or side of his head. Just because someone throws an elbow from that position doesn't mean it was an intentional 9-12 elbow.


Nothing nearly as bad as Jon Jones finishing Gustafsson with multiple illegal strikes to the back of the head but nobody seemed to notice that? When they done the playback afterwards the commentators were completely silent, probably muted to not point out they were illegal.

Fact is its very rare for a fight to go several rounds with no form of 'cheating' intentional or otherwise. They're only worth pointing out if its bad enough to have an affect on the fight, nothing Conor did in that fight had any affect on it other than making Khabib shout at the ref for a split second.

Ush1

Haven't watched it back but I remember thinking at the time when McGregor threw that knee it looked like desperation, maybe fear that Khabib would yank it and mess up his shoulder. I say this as someone who was up for McGregor.

Conor also confirmed that the big overhand Khabib landed changed the course of the fight. Whatever about the wrestling, gas tank, ring rust etc.... that one punch tangibly changed the outcome. He said the only reason it landed is because he basically done no striking in the build up, or at least much sparring strikes. Kavanagh also said they concentrated too much of defense(presumably wrestling to try and stay standing).

spix

Perifect wrote: »

Did the knee prevent Khabib from finishing it? We'll never know.

You should watch the video you linked to. He tried to finish it after the knee, not before, there was no kimura attempt before the knee. There was also no change in position or grip from the knee. It didn't prevent anything.

spix

Perifect wrote: »

So you are just guessing. To me, it looks like he knew he was in deep trouble and it was a desperate move to save himself. He didn't accidentally knee Khabib in the head so it was intentional cheating.

It it was desperation he would've kneed him again when khabib actually tried to finish the kimura...He wasn't in a desperate position the time he done the knee. Khabib had a hold of his arm but wasn't actually doing anything with it.

Perifect

spix wrote: »

You should watch the video you linked to. He tried to finish it after the knee, not before, there was no kimura attempt before the knee. There was also no change in position or grip from the knee. It didn't prevent anything.

As someone said, it seemed like Khabib was about to yank his arm or do some damage. The knee clearly put him off. There was a change of position so it clearly had an effect. Blatant cheating basically.

Perifect

spix wrote: »

It it was desperation he would've kneed him again when khabib actually tried to finish the kimura...He wasn't in any danger the time he done the knee.

He was illegally kneeing and using the fence at the time. He clearly was in deep trouble and he was cheating out of desperation. What should the ref have done at this moment if he was doing his job correctly?

spix

Perifect wrote: »

He was illegally kneeing and using the fence at the time. He clearly was in deep trouble and he was cheating out of desperation. What should the ref have done at this moment if he was doing his job correctly?

The video clearly shows there was absolutely no change in position caused by the knee and he wasn't in serious danger at time of knee since Khabib hadn't actually attempted the kimura yet. He was in far more danger a few seconds later when Khabib tried to 'yank his arm' and could've kneed him again but he didn't. To me that proves it wasn't desperation and was a response to Khabib calling at Dana.

Ref done the right thing since the knee clearly did not hurt Khabib or change the position he was in. If the ref done anything else it could've impacted the fight.

Perifect

spix wrote: »

The video clearly shows there was absolutely no change in position caused by the knee and he wasn't in serious danger at time of knee since Khabib hadn't actually attempted the kimura yet. He was in far more danger a few seconds later when Khabib tried to 'yank his arm' and could've kneed him again but he didn't. To me that proves it wasn't desperation and was a response to Khabib calling at Dana.

Ref done the right thing since the knee clearly did not hurt Khabib or change the position he was in. If the ref done anything else it could've impacted the fight.

There was a change of position. And he couldn't have kneed him a second time. I think you need to rewatch the video. It shows that McGregor knows he was in deep trouble and in desperation he cheated. Surely the ref should have done something about that?
I think we're going round in circles here. You're seeing something completely different than me in the video and seem to be excusing cheating.

Mellor

Perifect wrote: »

There was a change of position. And he couldn't have kneed him a second time. I think you need to rewatch the video. It shows that McGregor knows he was in deep trouble and in desperation he cheated. Surely the ref should have done something about that?

Before the knee, McGregor's hand was in front of his stomach. Khabib can't finish a kimura from there (with that grip).
After the knee, yes there was a change of position. Khabib moved McGregor's hand off his stomach to his side. The change position introduced the threat of s submission.

Perifect

Mellor wrote: »

Before the knee, McGregor's hand was in front of his stomach. Khabib can't finish a kimura from there (with that grip).
After the knee, yes there was a change of position. Khabib moved McGregor's hand off his stomach to his side. The change position introduced the threat of s submission.

Yes but wouldn't you think McGregor sensed what was coming? Khabib had a position in which a transition to a kimura was predictable? He was calling out to Dana before completing the submission. McGregor kneed him in desperation. Again, I'm not an expert on this but it seems fairly obvious.

Mellor

Perifect wrote: »

Yes but wouldn't you think McGregor sensed what was coming? Khabib had a position in which a transition to a kimura was predictable? He was calling out to Dana before completing the submission. McGregor kneed him in desperation. Again, I'm not an expert on this but it seems fairly obvious.

I've no idea what Conor's motive for the knee was. And I'm not ignoring the fact it was illegal.
I'm just pointing out Khabib wasn't in position to apply a kimura until after the knee. The change of position was after the knee, and it improved Khabib's position.

So repeating "but there was a change of position, so it had an effect" doesn't make a lot of sense.

Perifect

Mellor wrote: »

I've no idea what Conor's motive for the knee was. And I'm not ignoring the fact it was illegal.
I'm just pointing out Khabib wasn't in position to apply a kimura until after the knee. The change of position was after the knee, and it improved Khabib's position.

So repeating "but there was a change of position, so it had an effect" doesn't make a lot of sense.

But the other lad was saying that there was no change of position! That doesn't make a lot of sense. It's just wrong.
Khabib moved to submit but we'll never know if the knee had any effect in preventing a submission. Khabib seemed fairly confident before the knee arrived. Clear cheating anyway, no matter what way you look at it.

Tazzimus

Perifect wrote: »

But the other lad was saying that there was no change of position! That doesn't make a lot of sense. It's just wrong.
Khabib moved to submit but we'll never know if the knee had any effect in preventing a submission. Khabib seemed fairly confident before the knee arrived. Clear cheating anyway, no matter what way you look at it.

Go watch the video you linked, that Kimura wasn't happening with or without the knee.

He let go because he knew he wasn't able to get it, not because of the knee. He barely even acknowledged the knee.

Mellor

Perifect wrote: »

But the other lad was saying that there was no change of position! That doesn't make a lot of sense. It's just wrong.

I think he said the change in position wasn't because of the knee - and not that there was no change at all.
As in Khabib change position on his own.

Khabib moved to submit but we'll never know if the knee had any effect in preventing a submission.

We'll never know with 100% certainty because of all the variables. But given Khabib kept the grip, improved his position, and didn't get the finish. It seems likely that he wouldn't have finished either without the knee.

Perifect

Tazzimus wrote: »

Go watch the video you linked, that Kimura wasn't happening with or without the knee.

He let go because he knew he wasn't able to get it, not because of the knee. He barely even acknowledged the knee.

We don't know what his plan was! He called for Dana, what was he going to say next, what was he going to do? We will never know because of the illegal knee. All we do know is that it was a desperate move from McGregor and he felt he was in danger.

Tazzimus

Perifect wrote: »

We don't know what his plan was! He called for Dana, what was he going to say next, what was he going to do? We will never know because of the illegal knee. All we do know is that it was a desperate move from McGregor and he felt he was in danger.

Except he wasn't. His arm was across his stomach, no way in hell a Kimura gets finished from there.
We don't know why he kneed him in the head, but I very much doubt it was due to the Kimura attempt at that stage of it.

Perifect

Mellor wrote: »

I think he said the change in position wasn't because of the knee - and not that there was no change at all.
As in Khabib change position on his own.


We'll never know with 100% certainty because of all the variables. But given Khabib kept the grip, improved his position, and didn't get the finish. It seems likely that he wouldn't have finished either without the knee.

But maybe Khabib was planning something else. We'll never know. Khabib was going to say something to Dana, he didn't. He called out to the ref after the knee. Clearly, the knee caused a change of position and a change in what Khabib had in mind!

Perifect

Tazzimus wrote: »

Except he wasn't. His arm was across his stomach, no way in hell a Kimura gets finished from there.
We don't know why he kneed him in the head, but I very much doubt it was due to the Kimura attempt at that stage of it.

You don't cheat if you're comfortable. He kneed and was using the wire. He clearly sensed danger and with no other alternatives, he went illegal.

The Nal

Just looking back at the fight again. Some of the punches McGregor threw were pathetic. So afraid of the takedown. Some of the them were basically slaps. And not in a Diaz way.