Madeleine McCann

v638sg7k1a92bx

OwlsZat wrote: »

Actually study the case files, or easier if people are talking about specific details just stick them into Google for yourself and read up on the subject. Your ruining the thread of those who have.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm

No ruining involved, just calling people out on their factual inaccuracies. For example, there is no evidence, proof, corroboration, whatever you want to call it, that the McCann's medicated their children and yet this has been repeated ad nausea on this thread.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

OwlsZat wrote: »

Actually study the case files, or easier if people are talking about specific details just stick them into Google for yourself and read up on the subject. Your ruining the thread of those who have.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm

You're ruining the thread with your aggressiveness, shutting down any theory you disagree with.
Just cause someone believes something different to you, it doesn't make them wrong.

There is no proof of either scenario so your point is irrelevant. I see the case files in one light, you another.
Neither of us is wrong, as much as you would like to insist otherwise.

v638sg7k1a92bx

For all those conspiracy theorists who say that the UK investigation was scuppered from the start because they were restricted from investigating the McCann's and that their job was to find the McCann's innocent (an oxymoron in itself) because of the UK Government cover up.

Primarily what we sought to do from the beginning is try to bring everything back to the beginning, to zero if you like, and then reanalyse and reassess everything, accepting nothing!

DCI Andy Redwood on Crimewatch UK

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

1. How do you know the kids were medicated?

2. How do you know that they were crying for 1.5 hours the night before?

3. Cadaver dogs are not reliable evidence in their own right, the dogs could have been barking at anything. You would also have to believe that the body had decomposed to such an extent in approx. 2 hours that it left a scent that could be detected by dogs weeks later. Doesn't pass the sniff test to me, bodies don't decompose and stagnate that quickly.

1. The fact that the other two children slept though the entire ransacking of the apartment all the countless visitors, sirens, shouting and commotion and the fact that Kate continually checked the twins for to make sure they were breathing. Something she would be medically trailed to do as an anesthetist.

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/10/fiona-payne-kate-mccann-kept-putting.html
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

2. The video contains a very impressive passage about a little episode that was reported by Mrs Fenn, the lady that lives in the apartment directly above apartment 5A, in her witness statement to the Polícia Judiciária, on the 20th of August 2007, as follows:

“She [Pamela Fenn] thus mentions that on Tuesday, the 1st of May 2007, and while alone at home, at around 10.30 p.m. she heard a child crying, that by the sound of it seemed to her to be coming from a young child and not from a two-year-old or younger baby. Simultaneously with the crying that lasted for about one hour and 15 minutes, and became increasingly more intense and expressive, the child screamed “daddy – daddy”, the deponent has no doubt that the crying came from the lower floor. At around 11.45 p.m., which is to say, one hour and fifteen after it started, she felt the parents arriving, but didn’t see them, nevertheless she heard the balcony door opening, which she noticed because she was quite worried, given the fact that the crying lasted for over an hour and increased steadily. When asked, she said that she didn’t know the reason for the crying, maybe a nightmare, or any other destabilising factor. She adds that as soon as the parents entered the house, the child stopped crying.” in Process 201/07.0 GALGS, pages 2412-2413

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

3. These Cadavar dogs and blood dogs are excellent, and have solved countless cases, even in Ireland.

http://laidbareblog.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-truth-of-dogs-mccann-case-and-more.html
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm


The only factual inaccuracy is your defense of a position without the slightest notion of the case.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SusieBlue wrote: »

shutting down any theory you disagree with

Any chance you'll quote where I unfairly shut down a theory I disagreed with?

The only thing I've asked is that people use the word evidence correctly and stay close to the facts.

v638sg7k1a92bx

OwlsZat wrote: »

Any chance you'll quote where I unfairly shut down a theory I disagreed with?

The only thing I've asked is that people use the word evidence correctly and stay close to the facts.

You talk about "facts" and yet you just made the following statement

OwlsZat wrote: »

The children were medicated and left alone. The 1.5 hours Madeline cried the night before calling for her father. Show you, you are being lied to by Gerry and the coloring booking timelines. Obviously you don't mind.

With that in mind, can you please explain as a statement of fact

1. That the children were medicated
2. That the children cried for 1.5 hours calling for their father

Please and thank you

v638sg7k1a92bx

OwlsZat wrote: »

1. The fact that the other two children slept though the entire ransacking of the apartment all the countless visitors, sirens, shouting and commotion and the fact that Kate continually checked the twins for to make sure they were breathing. Something she would be medically trailed to do as an anesthetist.

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/10/fiona-payne-kate-mccann-kept-putting.html
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

2. The video contains a very impressive passage about a little episode that was reported by Mrs Fenn, the lady that lives in the apartment directly above apartment 5A, in her witness statement to the Polícia Judiciária, on the 20th of August 2007, as follows:

“She [Pamela Fenn] thus mentions that on Tuesday, the 1st of May 2007, and while alone at home, at around 10.30 p.m. she heard a child crying, that by the sound of it seemed to her to be coming from a young child and not from a two-year-old or younger baby. Simultaneously with the crying that lasted for about one hour and 15 minutes, and became increasingly more intense and expressive, the child screamed “daddy – daddy”, the deponent has no doubt that the crying came from the lower floor. At around 11.45 p.m., which is to say, one hour and fifteen after it started, she felt the parents arriving, but didn’t see them, nevertheless she heard the balcony door opening, which she noticed because she was quite worried, given the fact that the crying lasted for over an hour and increased steadily. When asked, she said that she didn’t know the reason for the crying, maybe a nightmare, or any other destabilising factor. She adds that as soon as the parents entered the house, the child stopped crying.” in Process 201/07.0 GALGS, pages 2412-2413

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

3. These Cadavar dogs and blood dogs are excellent, and have solved countless cases, even in Ireland.

http://laidbareblog.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-truth-of-dogs-mccann-case-and-more.html
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm


The only factual inaccuracy is your defense of a position without the slightest notion of the case.

These are not facts, this is hearsay.

1. You have no proof that sleeping children were medicated

2. A woman who hear a crying child in a complex full of families with children means nothing.

3. Cadaver dogs and blood are excellent what exactly?

Still waiting

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Can you please move on from this tedious back and forth?

v638sg7k1a92bx

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Can you please move on from this tedious back and forth?

Happy to move on but we need to call people out on some of the claims they are making.

For example, a neighbour hears a baby crying in the middle of the night and somehow this is some indication of guilt or suspicious activity.

The twins slept through the commotion of the night and all of a sudden this means the kids were medicated. Anyone who has kids or familiar with children will tell you that kids would sleep through a tornado.

The body was moved in the rental car three weeks after the disappearance while the world was watching them

Gerry McCann dumped the body at sea

The body was kept in a fridge

Cadaver dogs don't lie

They wrote their cover story down in a copy book

We have to ask the question as to what stage does empirical evidence and objectionable facts not matter to people anymore that they will just continue with these wild conspiracy theories and when you grill them on the intricate details i.e. when you ask them to explain the logistics as to how the McCann's could realistically conceal a dead body in a fridge for three weeks, then rent a car, move the body, dump it somewhere that they know it would never be found, in a foreign country, while the police and the world media are watching them, and the response you get it something along the lines of "oh well, they had local help".

Then when you ask them how they would organise something like disposing a body in a foreign country, they spin it into another conspiracy about the Tapas 7 and a pact of silence and how one of them was there before so they could have done it. Then when you ask them why somebody would concoct and maintain a cover story for 12 years and how difficult that would be etc etc, they say that there is some type of police or government cover up to maintain the original cover up.

Tomw86

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Happy to move on but we need to call people out on some of the claims they are making.

For example, a neighbour hears a baby crying in the middle of the night and somehow this is some indication of guilt or suspicious activity.

The twins slept through the commotion of the night and all of a sudden this means the kids were medicated. Anyone who has kids or familiar with children will tell you that kids would sleep through a tornado.

The body was moved in the rental car three weeks after the disappearance while the world was watching them

Gerry McCann dumped the body at sea

The body was kept in a fridge

Cadaver dogs don't lie

They wrote their cover story down in a copy book

We have to ask the question as to what stage does empirical evidence and objectionable facts not matter to people anymore that they will just continue with these wild conspiracy theories and when you grill them on the intricate details i.e. when you ask them to explain the logistics as to how the McCann's could realistically conceal a dead body in a fridge for three weeks, then rent a car, move the body, dump it somewhere that they know it would never be found, in a foreign country, while the police and the world media are watching them, and the response you get it something along the lines of "oh well, they had local help".

Then when you ask them how they would organise something like disposing a body in a foreign country, they spin it into another conspiracy about the Tapas 7 and a pact of silence and how one of them was there before so they could have done it. Then when you ask them why somebody would concoct and maintain a cover story for 12 years and how difficult that would be etc etc, they say that there is some type of police or government cover up to maintain the original cover up.

These are all theories - they could have happened and could not have. peoples opinions on this vary.

The abduction is also a THEORY.

So before you start attacking everyone who disagrees with you, take a deep breath, maybe 2 and consider a more reasonable response. You are ruining the threat for everyone and coming across as pretty stupid while doing so as you are not familiar with the case and are jumping in two footed on what people are saying without reading responses correctly!

One example of this is people never said it had to be the body in the car - but rather an item of clothing/material which came in contact with the body. You seem oblivious to this and never picked up on.

Again only a THEORY (you should probably actually google the meaning of that word before responding)!

v638sg7k1a92bx

Tomw86 wrote: »

These are all theories - they could have happened and could not have. peoples opinions on this vary.

The abduction is also a THEORY.

So before you start attacking everyone who disagrees with you, take a deep breath, maybe 2 and consider a more reasonable response. You are ruining the threat for everyone and coming across as pretty stupid while doing so as you are not familiar with the case and are jumping in two footed on what people are saying without reading responses correctly!

One example of this is people never said it had to be the body in the car - but rather an item of clothing/material which came in contact with the body. You seem oblivious to this and never picked up on.

Again only a THEORY (you should probably actually google the meaning of that word before responding)!

What about an alien abduction, is that also a theory. Should we take all these theories seriously?

Tomw86

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

What about an alien abduction, is that also a theory. Should we take all these theories seriously?

Yes it is a theory and if you want to engage in that theory then fire ahead.

I don't believe in Aliens so you'll have to find someone else to argue with on that one...maybe a mirror?

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

lol, you seem to have alot of experience in desperation, particularly when it comes to trying to suggest the parents and friends were involved in the disappearance.

The only desperation was that of parents trying to find their missing child, and on the flip side, the desperation of conspiracy theorists trying to suggest the McCann's are responsible by taking every word and action they made and try to wrench it out of context as if it was some indication of guilt.

Right you can quit with the personalisation rubbish while your at it.

At this point in time I personally back no single scenario. There are many many questions to be answered with regards to what actually went on that night. It remains that the parents and friends were the last people to see that child alive. Unfortunately as the case stands there are more questions than answers. This is a discussion forum and that's how it is. Deal with it.

The stupidity of assigning 'conspiracy theorists' to anyone who does not subscribe to your opinion is pathetically blinkered imo.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Tomw86 wrote: »

Yes it is a theory and if you want to engage in that theory then fire ahead.

I don't believe in Aliens so you'll have to find someone else to argue with on that one...maybe a mirror?

But that's my point. Some of the theories being put forward are just as plausible as an alien abduction and yet when theses theories are called out the reaction of the people purporting them is to dig their heels in even more and spin that narrative into an even more ridiculous theory.

The problem with these theories is that their intention is not one of genuine concern but rather to try at all costs to implicate the parents in the disappearance which is what Amaral did from the outset.

No matter what way we spin these theories, if we were to do the most basic walkthrough of anyone one of them, be it the Tapas 7, Gerry McCann, the cadaver dogs, the rental car and what that would actually entail to pull something like this off, they fall to pieces within the first few sentences which is why the UK Police and Portuguese police are pursuing an abduction as the most likely scenario but yet people on here will trawl over the same debunked concepts that serious police investigators have looked at in great detail and continue to push this agenda as if people on the internet are going to discover or unearth something that the police haven't already done.

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

But that's my point. Some of the theories being put forward are just as plausible as an alien abduction and yet when theses theories are called out the reaction of the people purporting them is to dig their heels in even more and spin that narrative into an even more ridiculous theory.

The problem with these theories is that their intention is not one of genuine concern but rather to try at all costs to implicate the parents in the disappearance which is what Amaral did from the outset.

No matter what way we spin these theories, if we were to do the most basic walkthrough of anyone one of them, be it the Tapas 7, Gerry McCann, the cadaver dogs, the rental car and what that would actually entail to pull something like this off, they fall to pieces within the first few sentences which is why the UK Police and Portuguese police are pursuing an abduction as the most likely scenario but yet people on here will trawl over the same debunked concepts that serious police investigators have looked at in great detail and continue to push this agenda as if people on the internet are going to discover or unearth something that the police haven't already done.

So your role is to close down discussion you do not approve of - or deem implausible? Good luck with that.

A number of inaccurate points - the Portuguese police are not pursuing an 'abduction' theory

The Portuguese police (and not just Amaral) published their findings that they believed the child died accidentally.

The UK investigation has been limited in its scope since it first began. It has never even interviewed the last people to see the child alive. Iwhich is quite incredible tbh. So much for starting from scratch :rolleyes:

chicorytip

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:

The problem with these theories is that their intention is not one of genuine concern but rather to try at all costs to implicate the parents in the disappearance which is what Amaral did from the outset.

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:

No matter what way we spin these theories, if we were to do the most basic walkthrough of anyone one of them, be it the Tapas 7, Gerry McCann, the cadaver dogs, the rental car and what that would actually entail to pull something like this off, they fall to pieces within the first few sentences which is why the UK Police and Portuguese police are pursuing an abduction as the most likely scenario but yet people on here will trawl over the same debunked concepts that serious police investigators have looked at in great detail and continue to push this agenda as if people on the internet are going to discover or unearth something that the police haven't already done.

The abduction theory is clearly one that "falls to pieces within the first few sentences". We have evidence of this. The bedroom window and the roll down shutter which, as has been demonstrated in reconstructions, cannot be opened from the outside so therefore could not have been used as a point of entry by a kidnapper. The absence of fingerprints or other DNA on both the inside of the window and the inside of the shutter apart from just one - Kate McCanns. The complete absence of any similar material that could have belonged to an intruder in the room itself. The state of the bedroom as detectives first entered. It had what looked like a very carefully arranged appearance staged to make it appear as if an abduction had taken place. Kate Mc Cann's statement to the PJ and later re-enacted by her in a recorded reconstruction for TV that a strong gust of wind blown through the open bedroom window had caused the partially open door to almost slam in her face as she went to enter and check on the children. The weather reports for the exact period show that it was, in fact, a perfectly calm evening with no wind or gusts blowing.
Amaral has been vilified and destroyed professionally by the British political, police and journalistic establishment purely for carrying out his job in a diligent fashion. The word went out. The McCann's must be found innocent, whatever it takes.

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

chicorytip wrote: »

. The word went out. The McCann's must be found innocent, whatever it takes.

Who sent the word out and why?

gozunda

Something Else

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Who sent the word out and why?

As we seem to have entered into a Test Your Knowledge Quiz phase of the discussion - perhaps you would first answer a question I asked several pages back and as yet have received no answer...

gozunda wrote: »

First you might explain where you abstracted that very strange and bizarre commentary on the Gaspar police interviews

That any of that (in italics) frankly vicious misogyny can be attributed to a professional source is quite unbelievable.

Interestingly the source link you provide does NOT contain any of the commentary on said abstract. eg. 'Woman scorned' :rolleyes:

Can you present a reliable official link for where the detailed police man said that.

Would you be good enough to explain. Thanks.

chicorytip

Something Else

MonkieSocks wrote:

Who sent the word out and why?

British Intelligence (MI6) acting at the behest of it's political masters at the time i.e. senior cabinet members with the assistance of Leicstershire police and the Portuguese embassy in London.

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

chicorytip wrote: »

British Intelligence (MI6) acting at the behest of it's political masters at the time i.e. senior cabinet members with the assistance of Leicstershire police and the Portuguese embassy in London.

Thanks

gozunda

Something Else

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Thanks

Have you found the source of that hilarious commentary on the Gaspar statement you posted?

Thanks

Lady Poepoe

I also really would like a proper read of this statement they put up. It seems like a quote from a blog so maybe that's why Monkiesocks isn't linking.
The more people give links the easiler it is to hopefully stop the back and forth bickering.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Who sent the word out and why?

Who cares. Every time someone spells out the obvious it's questioned with an acquisitional why. Nobody here knows why this happened. Only that it did. The parents hid her body to avoid loosing their twins. **** happens when you party naked. They took chances and got burned. We live and we move on. It is sad that justice for Madeline will never be served but that's life. In this case it seems the political backing the couple got was misjudged and irreversible.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Tomw86 wrote: »

These are all theories - they could have happened and could not have. peoples opinions on this vary.

The abduction is also a THEORY.

So before you start attacking everyone who disagrees with you, take a deep breath, maybe 2 and consider a more reasonable response. You are ruining the threat for everyone and coming across as pretty stupid while doing so as you are not familiar with the case and are jumping in two footed on what people are saying without reading responses correctly!

One example of this is people never said it had to be the body in the car - but rather an item of clothing/material which came in contact with the body. You seem oblivious to this and never picked up on.

Again only a THEORY (you should probably actually google the meaning of that word before responding)!

This is what I'm talking about.

chicorytip wrote: »

British Intelligence (MI6) acting at the behest of it's political masters at the time i.e. senior cabinet members with the assistance of Leicstershire police and the Portuguese embassy in London.

Spanish Eyes

Personally I think it is over now.

We can speculate and have arguments and so on but nothing will come of it anymore.

The only thing IMV that is true is that the parents were negligent. But then again they were never accused or convicted of that. Great that they were doctors, in the company of doctors and so on.

Anyway, will keep an eye on the thread, but to my mind it is over now.

Apart from the fate of the little child Madeleine.

v638sg7k1a92bx

chicorytip wrote: »

The abduction theory is clearly one that "falls to pieces within the first few sentences". We have evidence of this. The bedroom window and the roll down shutter which, as has been demonstrated in reconstructions, cannot be opened from the outside so therefore could not have been used as a point of entry by a kidnapper. The absence of fingerprints or other DNA on both the inside of the window and the inside of the shutter apart from just one - Kate McCanns. The complete absence of any similar material that could have belonged to an intruder in the room itself. The state of the bedroom as detectives first entered. It had what looked like a very carefully arranged appearance staged to make it appear as if an abduction had taken place. Kate Mc Cann's statement to the PJ and later re-enacted by her in a recorded reconstruction for TV that a strong gust of wind blown through the open bedroom window had caused the partially open door to almost slam in her face as she went to enter and check on the children. The weather reports for the exact period show that it was, in fact, a perfectly calm evening with no wind or gusts blowing.
Amaral has been vilified and destroyed professionally by the British political, police and journalistic establishment purely for carrying out his job in a diligent fashion. The word went out. The McCann's must be found innocent, whatever it takes.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Nothing, absolutely nothing you mentioned in that long winded post is considered evidence or corroborates anything. It's just a load of hearsay and conjecture. I've been over the same points that I can't be bothered to do it again.

As for Amaral, did you know that he was made a formal suspect in a case that related to a missing child the day after Madeline McCann's disappearance!!!
He also came up with the same theory that the missing child who has never been found, who he claims is dead, an opinion based on shaky DNA evidence (more shaky than the DNA evidence that other posters say implicate the McCann's). He also was of the opinion in that case that the child's body was kept in a fridge and disposed of weeks later. Any of this sound familiar to you???

Amaral, was sacked because he publicly criticised the UK police, not the other way around.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Personally I think it is over now.

We can speculate and have arguments and so on but nothing will come of it anymore.

The only thing IMV that is true is that the parents were negligent. But then again they were never accused or convicted of that. Great that they were doctors, in the company of doctors and so on.

Anyway, will keep an eye on the thread, but to my mind it is over now.

Apart from the fate of the little child Madeleine.

Careless and poor judgement Yes, negligent as in child neglect, No.
They've publicly and the addressed the fact that they left the kids alone umpteen times. Something that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Their occupation is neither hear nor there.

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Nothing, absolutely nothing you mentioned in that long winded post is considered evidence or corroborates anything.It's just a load of hearsay and conjecture. I've been over the same points that I can't be bothered to do it again. [/b]

As for Amaral, did you know that he was made a formal suspect in a case that related to a missing child the day after Madeline McCann's disappearance!!!He also came up with the same theory that the missing child who has never been found, who he claims is dead, an opinion based on shaky DNA evidence (more shaky than the DNA evidence that other posters say implicate the McCann's). He also was of the opinion in that case that the child's body was kept in a fridge and disposed of weeks later. Any of this sound familiar to you??? Amaral, was sacked because he publicly criticised the UK police, not the other way around.

Tbh theres little in that except a number of platitudes which have been constantly repeated at this stage. It remains many things have been discussed and remain controversial with a range of different views tbh.

I have to ask why the obsession with repeatedly thrashing Goncalo Goncalo Amaral btw? Is he that big of a bugbear that his name is constantly invoked as if it somehow negates the disappearance of the child?

What he did elsewhere is irrelevant to the basic facts of this case where a child was left alone in an apartment and disappeared from said apartment - allegedly whilst under the care of her parents.

I think everyone knows Amaral wrote a book to explain (in his words) what happened with that case. He has proposed a number of theories as to how the child could have inexplicably vanished. He also explains how the investigation went astray and various impacts of this. That is what it is. His role in the investigation has been thoroughly critically analysed imo.

In the interests of accuracy the 'facts' detailed are wrong. Amaral was not 'sacked'. He was removed from the case after criticising the British Police and their reluctance to only consider one line of inquiry. He later retired from the Police force. Amaral was replaced as the lead investigator in the case by Paulo Rebelo, the deputy national director of the Polícia Judiciária. The final report of the investigation under Paula Rebelo concluded that the child died as as a result of an accident which likley occured in the apartment.

And lastly would you detail exactly which posters claim that the DNA evidence implicate the McCann's?

Thanks.

chicorytip

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:

As for Amaral, did you know that he was made a formal suspect in a case that related to a missing child the day after Madeline McCann's disappearance!!! He also came up with the same theory that the missing child who has never been found, who he claims is dead, an opinion based on shaky DNA evidence (more shaky than the DNA evidence that other posters say implicate the McCann's). He also was of the opinion in that case that the child's body was kept in a fridge and disposed of weeks later. Any of this sound familiar to you???

If that is the Joana Cipriano case you are referring his opinion proved to be entirely accurate because that's exactly what happened to the poor child. Her killers admitted murdering her, chopping up her remains and storing them in a freezer before burying them weeks later.

Spanish Eyes

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Careless and poor judgement Yes, negligent as in child neglect, No.
They've publicly and the addressed the fact that they left the kids alone umpteen times. Something that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Their occupation is neither hear nor there.

Oh I think it is important. And it seems they had the media descend on day one and had help that way to get them portrayed as the victims of an abduction. NO, the child was left along with her tiny siblings night after night. But if you think that is ok, fine.

My point was that the child is gone, the parents are responsible for leaving the eldest child alone along with the twins probably still in nappies and so on.

FFS doesn't bear thinking about.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Oh I think it is important. And it seems they had the media descend on day one and had help that way to get them portrayed as the victims of an abduction. NO, the child was left along with her tiny siblings night after night. But if you think that is ok, fine.

My point was that the child is gone, the parents are responsible for leaving the eldest child alone along with the twins probably still in nappies and so on.

FFS doesn't bear thinking about.

Why is their occupation so important to you?

I can't speak for the parent but I expect their courtship of the media was to raise as much awareness as possible in an attempt to find their missing daughter. If your daughter was missing are you saying you would refuse media attention because it might make you look bad???

v638sg7k1a92bx

chicorytip wrote: »

If that is the Joana Cipriano case you are referring to his opinion proved to be entirely accurate because that's exactly what happened to the poor child. Her killers admitted murdering her, chopping up her remains and storing them in a freezer before burying them weeks later.

They also said that they their confessions were coerced and one of the reasons why Amaral was made a formal suspect. `

Why don't you apply the same level of scepticism to Amaral as you do to the McCann's?

Spanish Eyes

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Why is their occupation so important to you?

I can't speak for the parent but I expect their courtship of the media was to raise as much awareness as possible in an attempt to find their missing daughter. If your daughter was missing are you saying you would refuse media attention because it might make you look bad???

Calm down now. They appear to have had access to Government, Sky and all the rest of it within 12 hours.

I think I would have been picking up every stone in that area to try and find her, before engaging the media. But it happened, and very quickly!

v638sg7k1a92bx

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Calm down now. They appear to have had access to Government, Sky and all the rest of it within 12 hours.

I think I would have been picking up every stone in that area to try and find her, before engaging the media. But it happened, and very quickly!

More "Government access" theories

hawkelady

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Why is their occupation so important to you?

I can't speak for the parent but I expect their courtship of the media was to raise as much awareness as possible in an attempt to find their missing daughter. If your daughter was missing are you saying you would refuse media attention because it might make you look bad???

But they refused a child social worker from the uk who knew the area well and spoke the language , she offered her help but was refused. The mccanns come out of this sorry story looking like sneaky snakes ... maybe on Gerry’s deathbed he might let us in on the real story

chicorytip

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:

They also said that they their confessions were coerced and one of the reasons why Amaral was made a formal suspect. `

A formal suspect for what? The murder itself?? He was accused of falsifying documentation in relation to the case - a charge that, to my knowledge, was not upheld. He had no direct role in the interrogation of the suspects who, by the way, happened to be the mother and uncle of the murdered girl. They had been conducting an incestuous relationship and had been seen having sex by Joana. They decided to kill her to prevent their secret from being exposed.
Amaral did not purport the "freezer" theory in relation to Madeleine. That is something that has been speculated about by investigating journalists and people on internet forums such as this one. He is convinced that the McCann's are lying and that Madeleine died (accidentally) in the apartment.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

And lastly would you detail exactly which posters claim that the DNA evidence implicate the McCann's?

Thanks.

If the same DNA evidence yields a positive indication for a corpse proves Madelines DNA is present it strongly indicates moving of a body. The truth of the lie. It's actually crazy the truealle analysis hasn't yet been made public.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

negligent as in child neglect, No.

The woman stating in the apartment above said they left Madeline crying for her father for an hour and 15 minutes. They also left the apartment unlocked and went in and out through the patio.

That's easily neglect. The fact that there was a night child minding service and they didn't use and the fact Kate checked the twins on the GCS scale tells you they medicated the children. They are very clearly guilty of child neglect.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Careless and poor judgement Yes, negligent as in child neglect, No.
e.

Child neglect absolutely Yes . Leaving three kids under 4 in an unlocked apartment accessable from a public road , not within hearing distance and unable to see the entrance . No question its neglect .

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

OwlsZat wrote: »

If the same DNA evidence yields a positive indication for a corpse proves Madeline DNA is present it strongly indicates moving of a body.

Fascinating

OwlsZat wrote: »

It's actually crazy the truealle analysis hasn't yet been made public

Have they done a test?

Operation Grange is an ongoing investigation, Scotland Yard won't be releasing anything of evidentiary value to the general public.

It would jeopardise any future trial.



Nothing from Portuguese Police either

v638sg7k1a92bx

OwlsZat wrote: »

The woman stating in the apartment above said they left Madeline crying for her father for an hour and 15 minutes. They also left the apartment unlocked and went in and out through the patio.

That's easily neglect. The fact that there was a night child minding service and they didn't use and the fact Kate checked the twins on the GCS scale tells you they medicated the children. They are very clearly guilty of child neglect.

A woman stating x and y in an complex full of families with children is hearsay.

I think you and many others misinterpret the meaning of child neglect, especially in a legal context. Careless, poor judgement, stupid, I would agree but child neglect it is not. Sorry.

v638sg7k1a92bx

OwlsZat wrote: »

The woman stating in the apartment above said they left Madeline crying for her father for an hour and 15 minutes. They also left the apartment unlocked and went in and out through the patio.

That's easily neglect. The fact that there was a night child minding service and they didn't use and the fact Kate checked the twins on the GCS scale tells you they medicated the children. They are very clearly guilty of child neglect.

Another example on this thread of an ill-informed ignorant opinion that has no basis in fact despite your overuse of the word.

v638sg7k1a92bx

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Child neglect absolutely Yes . Leaving three kids under 4 in an unlocked apartment accessable from a public road , not within hearing distance and unable to see the entrance . No question its neglect .

No, it isn't. You don't understand the meaning of the word.

v638sg7k1a92bx

hawkelady wrote: »

But they refused a child social worker from the uk who knew the area well and spoke the language , she offered her help but was refused. The mccanns come out of this sorry story looking like sneaky snakes ... maybe on Gerry’s deathbed he might let us in on the real story

They refused a social worker from the UK??? This is a new one, go on give the details and we'll just let the supporting tabloid story unravel.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Another example on this thread of an ill-informed ignorant opinion that has no basis in fact despite your overuse of the word.

You should be moderated to prevent your stupidity rubbing off on anyone.

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

They refused a social worker from the UK??? This is a new one, go on give the details and we'll just let the supporting tabloid story unravel.

Tristen Hissing Typhoon- would you at least go and research the PJ files before making uninformed comments such as that. It's not the first time. And no I'm not here to hand feed you.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

No, it isn't. You don't understand the meaning of the word.

neglect
/nɪˈɡlɛkt/
verb
1.
fail to care for properly.
"the old churchyard has been sadly neglected"
synonyms: fail to look after, fail to care for, fail to provide for, leave alone, abandon; archaicforsake

v638sg7k1a92bx

gozunda wrote: »

Tickers- would you at least go and research the PJ files before making uninformed comments such as that. It's not the first time. And no I'm not here to hand feed you.

I'm not interested in researching those file as they are fundamentally flawed and contaminated.

Tomw86

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

I'm not interested in researching those file as they are fundamentally flawed and contaminated.

You actually don't have a clue and again are making yourself look beyond stupid.

Definition of neglect;
Child neglect is a form of child abuse, and is a deficit in meeting a child's basic needs, including the failure to provide adequate health care, supervision, clothing, nutrition, housing as well as their physical, emotional, social, educational and safety needs.

As you can see, the McCanns are guilty of one of the many forms of child neglect by their failure to provide adequate supervision and not meeting their safety needs.

Please can you advise where you think they did provide this?

Thanks

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Just a reminder, we've been down this neglect avenue already and it looks like it's going done the same path again.


I don't want to see that on the thread as it causes a train wreck.