Madeleine McCann

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SusieBlue wrote: »

So you admit that she had answered all the questions before, and that you were misrepresenting the situation when you said that she had refused to answer any and all questions put to her?

To correct the record. Once Kate was formally made a suspect she refused to answer any questions that were put to her at interview.

Do you really think that this exonerates her of her duty to truthfully answer all questions that were put to her? Strange view point one. I didn't phase it like that initially because I didnt wouldn't consider it as being a valid point.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

OwlsZat wrote: »

To correct the record. Once Kate was formally made a suspect she refused to answer any questions that were put to her at interview.

Do you really think that this exonerates her of her duty to truthfully answer all questions that were put to her? Strange view point one. I didn't phase it like that initially because I didnt wouldn't consider it as being a valid point.

Thanks for clarifying.
Yes I do think it exonerates her, for reasons I already explained. If you’d ignore professional legal advice and answer anyway, that’s your prerogative, but I can understand why she wouldn’t and I don’t think it signifies her guilt in any manner:
She didn’t withhold any information and she only stopped cooperating when they stopped looking for Madeleine. No good could have come out of answering those questions again.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

OwlsZat wrote: »

To correct the record. Once Kate was formally made a suspect she refused to answer any questions that were put to her at interview.

Do you really think that this exonerates her of her duty to truthfully answer all questions that were put to her? Strange view point one. I didn't phase it like that initially because I didnt wouldn't consider it as being a valid point.

I think that if her Solicitor tells her not to answer, then there clearly is no duty.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

TheW1zard wrote: »

Didnt their mobile ping off various towers while travelling around in the rental. What are you doing taking excursions 3 weeks after your kids gone missing.
Im not new to the topic, nor am i trolling a thread!
So many dodgy things about the case!

These are the questions Kate refused to answer after being made a suspect. Some of the things inferred are quite daming. Amazing a seemingly innocent person didn't choose to refute the one's that were incorrect.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6816327/The-48-questions-Kate-McCann-didnt-answer-disappearance-daughter-Madeleine.html

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

I think that if her Solicitor tells her not to answer, then there clearly is no duty.

Why would a solicitor tell an innocent person not to tell the truth? Obviously they don't.

A solicitor might tell a guilty party not to answer if they believe that there's a risk lies told trying to claim innocence might be fallable and instead prove guilt.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SusieBlue wrote: »

She only stopped cooperating when they stopped looking for Madeleine. No good could have come out of answering those questions

She didn't look herself for Madeline. Ironically, the police stopped looking for the same reason she didn't bother looking in the first place. People who suffer great tragedy thirst for the truth. If she had a genuine want for the truth. She would have cooperated fully and aided in establishing it.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

OwlsZat wrote: »

These are the questions Kate refused to answer after being made a suspect. Some of the things inferred are quite daming. Amazing a seemingly innocent person didn't choose to refute the one's that were incorrect.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6816327/The-48-questions-Kate-McCann-didnt-answer-disappearance-daughter-Madeleine.html

You aren’t giving the full picture there and I won’t stop pointing it out until you stop misrepresenting what happened.

It no longer seems quite as ‘damning’ or suspicious when you consider she had ALREADY answered them all, several times over.
She refuted them and cooperated in 8-12 hour long interviews in the week leading up to being made arguido.
A very relevant point you keep dishonestly leaving out.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

OwlsZat wrote: »

She didn't look herself for Madine. Ironically, the police stopped looking for the same reason she didn't bother looking in the first place. People who suffer great tragedy thirst for the truth. If she had a genuine want for the truth. She would have cooperated fully and aided in establishing it.

A very mean spirited and judgmental attitude to take when you’ve never been in her position.
You have no idea how you’d personally react to such a situation, stress, fear, anger, frustration and sadness can cause a person to do all sorts of things.
Stop judging her based on what you suppose you’d do. It’s completely irrelevant when it’s never happened to you.

Ironically, Kate is the only woman I’ve ever heard of whose child disappeared while on holiday.
So seeing as there’s no other case to compare it to, I could claim that Kate’s reaction is the ‘normal’ one.
But I wouldn’t be so ignorant to make that assumption when I know that each individual would have a different response and none of those are wrong and none of those make them guilty of anything.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SusieBlue wrote: »

You aren’t giving the full picture there and I won’t stop pointing it out until you stop misrepresenting what happened.

It no longer seems quite as ‘damning’ or suspicious when you consider she had ALREADY answered them all, several times over.
She refuted them and cooperated in 8-12 hour long interviews in the week leading up to being made arguido.
A very relevant point you keep dishonestly leaving out.

Calling someone dishonest because they dont agree with your feeble point is childish at best. Give over.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

OwlsZat wrote: »

Calling someone dishonest because they dont agree without your feeble point is childish at best. Give over.

Yes, I don’t agree with the fact that you keep intentionally leaving out the fact that she has already answered all of those questions. It’s not feeble, it’s relevant.

You are saying it’s damning that she refused to answer, she had already answered. That fact changes the whole context of your point, it’s not so damning when that part is included.
So long as you keep refusing to acknowledge it, I’ll keep pointing it out.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

The point about being made Arguido is made in the Guardian below. It's an interview technique used when it's obvious to authorities that the persons version of events can be proven to be untruthful. Kate was instructed by her lawyer not to answer as she would have implicated herself in Madelines death.


She was exceptionally lucky not to be prosecuted. Too much of the evidence was circumstantial and because she offered no answers the lies could not be tested against. Instead the case fell lame and they got away. That's the law for you. Plenty guilty people get away.


"Depending on the answers they may be moving towards a prosecution. If you cannot provide an alibi or the right answers they may move to prosecute. This is a serious moment. The suspect may be close to being charged," Ms Gale said."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/07/ukcrime.madeleinemccann2

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

OwlsZat wrote: »

She didn't look herself for Madeline. Ironically, the police stopped looking for the same reason she didn't bother looking in the first place. People who suffer great tragedy thirst for the truth. If she had a genuine want for the truth. She would have cooperated fully and aided in establishing it.

Yes she did. Check the nannie's account of the night MM went missing.

SusieBlue

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

Yes, I don’t agree with the fact that you keep intentionally leaving out the fact that she has already answered all of those questions. It’s not feeble, it’s relevant.

You are saying it’s damning that she refused to answer, she had already answered. That fact changes the whole context of your point, it’s not so damning when that part is included.
So long as you keep refusing to acknowledge it, I’ll keep pointing it out.

It’s certainly NOT fact that she had already answered those questions. If you’re so sure that she did, what were the answers she provided?

At the end of the day, they screamed abduction from the minute it happened. They even rang family and told them that the window had been smashed. The window wasn’t smashed. In fact, it didn’t even open from outside. Then the story changed to the door been open... the tapas 9 completely contradicted each other, despite only been at the table for just over an hour. Text messages were deleted on phones. The dogs signalled in the apartment and at the cars. They wouldn’t do a reconstruction as they didn’t see the point. There are plenty of reasons to at the very least not rule them out.

TheW1zard

Accident happened, parents hid body

Cmere didnt she run out of the apartment screaming "They took her".
Not a normal first reaction

TheW1zard

Something Else

TheW1zard wrote: »

Cmere didnt she run out of the apartment screaming "They took her".
Not a normal first reaction

And back down to the bar with the 2 twins left in the room alone.

TheW1zard

Accident happened, parents hid body

Havent watched the Netflix thing but this I found a good watch.
I went into it impartial but obviously think otherwise now.

https://youtu.be/uS6ucYudNAo

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

My favourite lie Kate told is the nonsense she kept talking about the window.

Curtains blowing, shutters open and I knew Madeline was taken. Then it turns out the window was 46cm across and a meter off the ground!

Total con artist.

OwlsZat

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

TheW1zard wrote: »

Havent watched the Netflix thing but this I found a good watch.
I went into it impartial but obviously think otherwise now.

https://youtu.be/uS6ucYudNAo

Amazing how many of the experts agree on an accidental death.

TheW1zard

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

TheW1zard wrote: »

Cmere didnt she run out of the apartment screaming "They took her".
Not a normal first reaction

There are a few things that feel suspicious to me about kate.

1. "They took her!" - What was that all about?
2. She and Gerry played squash they day after the disappearance. Who would do that? When my cat went missing, I couldn't even watch TV, never mind think about doing sport.
3. She washed cuddle cat because it had gotten grimey.

mcgragger

Accident happened, parents hid body

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are a few things that feel suspicious to me about kate.

1. "They took her!" - What was that all about?
2. She and Gerry played squash they day after the disappearance. Who would do that? When my cat went missing, I couldn't even watch TV, never mind think about doing sport.
3. She washed cuddle cat because it had gotten grimey.

Its a mystery for the ages.

If the parents did it accidentally or not what did they do with the body of the poor child?

How can you dispose of a child corpse?

mcgragger

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

mcgragger wrote: »

Its a mystery for the ages.

If the parents did it accidentally or not what did they do with the body of the poor child?

How can you dispose of a child corpse?

Then the cadaver dog getting a scent in a car they rented weeks after the disappearance.

SusieBlue

The parents did it

SusieBlue wrote: »

They didnt hire the car until 3 weeks after she disappeared. How do you propose they hid the body for 3 weeks and subsequently disposed of it, with the police breathing down their neck and every news station in the world camped outside their apartment, following their every move?

They don't have to keep the body for 3 weeks. But if they reuse a bag that had carried a body, that could be a detection, example.

Phoebas

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deleted User wrote: »

They don't have to keep the body for 3 weeks. But if they reuse a bag that had carried a body, that could be a detection, example.

Nothing was detected in the car.

The dog gave an indication. The follow up investigation detected nothing.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Phoebas wrote: »

Nothing was detected in the car.

The dog gave an indication. The follow up investigation detected nothing.

And the dogs were also found to be incompetent, they gave false positive alerts in subsequent cases and were retired from service not long after.
They simply aren’t reliable.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They don't have to keep the body for 3 weeks. But if they reuse a bag that had carried a body, that could be a detection, example.

Sorry but that just isn’t credible, why on earth would they keep and continue to use the bag they used to store their daughters corpse if they were trying to avoid rousing any suspicion?

SusieBlue

The parents did it

SusieBlue wrote: »

Sorry but that just isn’t credible, why on earth would they keep and continue to use the bag they used to store their daughters corpse if they were trying to avoid rousing any suspicion?

How would I know? I merely give an example of what could happen

limnam

SusieBlue wrote: »

And the dogs were also found to be incompetent, they gave false positive alerts in subsequent cases and were retired from service not long after.
They simply aren’t reliable.

Even if they were unreliable.

While drinking brandy with a known pedophile she wrote how she laughed as the pedophile joked the dog wouldn't be allowed up on the stand.

Bizarre behavior for a mother discussing people taking tax payers money to assist her in finding her daughter.

As usual with this story

We can dismiss things here and there

With the McCanns we have to dismiss a mountain of oddity. This shouldn't be the case for incident people in the wrong place at the wrong time.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Even if they were unreliable.

While drinking brandy with a known pedophile she wrote how she laughed as the pedophile joked the dog wouldn't be allowed up on the stand.

Bizarre behavior for a mother discussing people taking tax payers money to assist her in finding her daughter.

As usual with this story

We can dismiss things here and there

With the McCanns we have to dismiss a mountain of oddity. This shouldn't be the case for incident people in the wrong place at the wrong time.

He wasn't a known pedophile. :rolleyes:

limnam

cnocbui wrote: »

He wasn't a known pedophile. :rolleyes:

Weird that you chose that aspect to comment on and not the fact she joked with him regarding the dog taking the stand.

Why is his status of a pedophile more important to you to defend than her actions?

Ignoring that.

He's a known pedophile.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Weird that you chose that aspect to comment on and not the fact she joked with him regarding the dog taking the stand.

Why is his status of a pedophile more important to you to defend than her actions?

Ignoring that.

He's a known pedophile.

Is it possible Kate McCann could have known he was a pedophile at the time? There. Get it now?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Only scanning this thread so not fully up to speed.

Is it true Gerry and Kate went playing squash the next day after Madeline disappeard? Source?

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Only scanning this thread so not fully up to speed.

Is it true Gerry and Kate went playing squash the next day after Madeline disappeard? Source?

No, it isn't.

limnam

cnocbui wrote: »

Is it possible Kate McCann could have known he was a pedophile at the time? There. Get it now?

It's possible

But that's not really my problem with this

It's her joking about the dogs taking the stand.

He's trying to find your missing daughter and all your worried about is if the dogs will be allowed to be used as evidence.

Bizarre.

ozzy jr

Something Else

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Only scanning this thread so not fully up to speed.

Is it true Gerry and Kate went playing squash the next day after Madeline disappeard? Source?

Tennis, not squash.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

It's possible

But that's not really my problem with this

It's her joking about the dogs taking the stand.

He's trying to find your missing daughter and all your worried about is if the dogs will be allowed to be used as evidence.

Bizarre.

Can you post a a direct quote of what she wrote?

You'd be thankful if your daughter went missing and someone comes along with a dog and suggests you killed your child and had her remains in your hire car, when you know you didn't?

In those circumstances I would actually want to kill the trucker, not be thinking he's only trying to help.

limnam

cnocbui wrote: »

Can you post a a direct quote of what she wrote?

You'd be thankful if your daughter went missing and someone comes along with a dog and suggests you killed your child and had her remains in your hire car, when you know you didn't?

In those circumstances I would actually want to kill the trucker, not be thinking he's only trying to help.

It's in her book and quoted in the thread before.

If I didn't kill my daughter I'd be grateful for anyone's help regardless.

What I wouldn't be doing is drinking with a known pedophile while laughing about it and then making money of the joke.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

It's in her book and quoted in the thread before.

If I didn't kill my daughter I'd be grateful for anyone's help regardless.

What I wouldn't be doing is drinking with a known pedophile while laughing about it and then making money of the joke.

So in a murder investigation into your child, someone walks up to the detective in charge of the case and says that you murdered your daughter, and you claim you would be grateful for their 'help', even though you knew they were lying?

I don't believe you, but can't actually prove you aren't serious.

Kate didn't have a drink with a known pedophile - he was only generally known to be a pedophile well after she had a drink with him. You are really trying it on there.

juno10353

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

And the dogs were also found to be incompetent, they gave false positive alerts in subsequent cases and were retired from service not long after.
They simply aren’t reliable.

Where is this stated?

limnam

cnocbui wrote: »

So in a murder investigation into your child, someone walks up to the detective in charge of the case and says that you murdered your daughter, and you claim you would be grateful for their 'help', even though you knew they were lying?

I don't believe you, but can't actually prove you aren't serious.

Kate didn't have a drink with a known pedophile - he was only generally known to be a pedophile well after she had a drink with him. You are really trying it on there.

I'm not aware the dog trainer accused anyone of murder.

If I was innocent I'd know the highly sought after training (hired by the FBI) would have no reason to "stich me up" so no i'd have no concerns

I would only be concerned if I killed my daughter.

She was drinking with a known pedophile. She was joking and relived that dogs been used to HELP them would not be able to be used in court regardless of what evidence was found.

I'm not sure how you can claim she wasn't

limnam

juno10353 wrote: »

Where is this stated?

My understanding is the dogs and the trainer had exceptional records.

They were also hired by the FBI.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

juno10353 wrote: »

Where is this stated?

Feast your eyes: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html

limnam

Why was the McCanns funding known con men.

Why did they spend hundreds of thousands on a team who had no experience in finding missing kids.

The list of why did they do X is endless.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Why was the McCanns funding known con men.

Why did they spend hundreds of thousands on a team who had no experience in finding missing kids.

The list of why did they do X is endless.

Perhaps they didn't know they were con men. Con men con, that's what they do.

Perhaps they couldn't find a team that did have experience finding missing kids. You could go find one in the yellow pages to show how easy it is.

I actually sort of agree with you. Biggest why for me is why they wouldn't keep their heads down and let it all just quietly fade away, if they had been involved.

limnam

cnocbui wrote: »

Perhaps they didn't know they were con men. Con men con, that's what they do.

Perhaps they couldn't find a team that did have experience finding missing kids. You could go find one in the yellow pages to show how easy it is.

I actually sort of agree with you. Biggest why for me is why they wouldn't keep their heads down and let it all just quietly fade away, if they had been involved.

I'm not suggesting it would be an easy thing to find. But I'd be reluctant to hand over 100e to someone to fix my car who had never done it before.

Never mind hundreds of thousands to find the most precious thing in the world to me.

Massive amount of money to multiple teams.

Very odd.

I don't think it's uncommon for guilty people to put themselves in the limelight

limnam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

I'm not suggesting it would be an easy thing to find. But I'd be reluctant to hand over 100e to someone to fix my car who had never done it before.

Never mind hundreds of thousands to find the most precious thing in the world to me.

Massive amount of money to multiple teams.

Very odd.

I don't think it's uncommon for guilty people to put themselves in the limelight

Soham murders, Ian Huntley, made himself known to reporters and police.

I suppose the logic being "if I'm out in public no-one will suspect me"

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

They were also hired by the FBI.

What cases did they work on for the FBI?, prior to the Madeleine missing person investigation

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

MonkieSocks wrote: »

What cases did they work on for the FBI?

Don't worry, the same MO unfolded - dogs barked in the garage and the body of the person they were looking for was found many kilometers away on the bank of a stream/river. Don't think any forensic evidence was recovered from the scene of the barks, just as with Portugal, Jersey and Shannon Mathews. 0 out of 4 since retiring from the Police force.

limnam

MonkieSocks wrote: »

What cases did they work on for the FBI?, prior to the Madeleine missing person investigation

Don't recall sating they did.


The point was the FBI were happy enough with the work to hire them.



It's not like he was some con artist floating around taking money like the lads hired by the McCanns to find their child.


Or selling snake oil. Some people try to make it out like he was trying to frame them.


Again I find it really odd that people bring up the dog and yet ignore the fact she was drinking brandy and laughing with a known pedophile relived that the any evidence regardless would not be permitted in court.


THIS is what's important not the dog barking.

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Don't recall sating they did.


Again I find it really odd that people bring up the dog and yet ignore the fact she was drinking brandy and laughing with a known pedophile relived that the any evidence regardless would not be permitted in court.


THIS is what's important not the dog barking.

It wasn't general knowledge that Freud was an alleged pedophile until after his death in 2009

McCann met him in 2007.

What cases and what evidence was produced in any court by Martin Grime for the FBI after you say he was working for them?

limnam wrote: »

THIS is what's important not the dog barking.

How is that not important?

limnam

MonkieSocks wrote: »

It wasn't general knowledge that Freud was an alleged pedophile until after his death in 2009

McCann met him in 2007.

What cases and what evidence was produced in any court by Martin Grime for the FBI after you say he was working for them?





How is that not important?

The fact it wasn't in the public domain doesn't mean it wasn't known to the McCanns.

Like the person before you I find it very strange the only comment you want to make on this is if it was known or not. You don't seem to want to discuss a mother of a missing child laughing with the pedophile that any evidence found couldn't be used.

Your only concern seems to be if the pedophile was outted by them at the time or not.

Why?

If we take the dog barked because something was there, we've no proof.

If it was a false positive, we've no proof

What we have is the mother of a "missing" child drinking brandy with a known pedophile and laughing about the fact no evidence could be used one way or another.

That's what we have. That's what's known. But you seem to want to divert away from that to anything other than that.

I don't have a list of all the cases.