Madeleine McCann

fin12

Accident happened, parents hid body

splinter65 wrote: »

Yes but Susie you are a person who lives in the real world where real people react in a real way to real situations.
As you can see from this thread the people who believe that the McCanns covered up their childs accidental death do not live anywhere else except the twilight zone. It’s like 9/11 conspirators.
None of the theories will allow for anything even remotely approaching a realistic scenario.
You’d have to wonder how some people even function in the real world, and come to the conclusion that they actually have little or no connection with it at all.

Or basically you just believe everything the media report and don’t question it.

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

fin12 wrote: »

Or basically you just believe everything the media report and don’t question it.

No I’ve not seen ever a scenario which explains how where when why and by whom M MCCann died.
Have you?

The parents did it

My thinking.

There is no evidence of intruder at the apartment. It doesn't mean there wasn't one, but nothing to support theory that there was.

There is some evidence of a mishap or misbehaving at the apartment, but not enough to suggest evil by parents.

There are things about the parents behaving that are not without suspicion, but I think because they were neglectful or careless. I remember the night after the child cried and no one came. I remember washing away maybe evidence on a toy (vomit with trace of drugs?)

I think it is possible, three ways. But no evidence I know of.

1) The child died from overdose and somehow was disposed.
2) The child wandered out to look for parents and was abducted on the street
3) The child wandered off and fell into somewhere not found

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deleted User wrote: »

3) The child wandered off and fell into somewhere not found

Possibly like this,


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/REX-MORGAN.htm

I would further like to say that in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine, I saw a manhole with a cover removed.

This manhole is situated on a junction of a road that runs parallel to the supermarket near to the Tapas Bar and the McCanns apartment.

The cover along with the surround that been removed and placed to the side of the road.

The road is lit by street lighting but I believe you would not have seen the hole and anyone could have fallen in.

I returned the next day and noticed that the cover had been replaced.

I am concerned that she may have fallen down the manhole and was not seen.

he also talks about the charity collectors on 3rd May.


Now I would imagine whoever put the manhole cover back on would have looked down the hole to see if anything was down there..............

Kidchameleon

xalot wrote: »

One thing that never seems to get mentioned is that Gerry reported a tennis bag missing from the apartment.....That missing bag just sticks in my head...

What? Why would that be mentioned? Gerry never reported a missing tennis bag. Link? Clarence Mitchell (spokesman for the McCanns) stated that there is no such tennis bag of interest. There is a blue sports bag in one of the photos of Apartment 5a taken by the Portuguese police and in another photo of the same spot, the bag is not there. Cue the rumor brigade. The photos were taken by the police who evidently had access to the bag in question.

Dog Man Star wrote: »

This is all well and good, but there is evidence that the McCanns are involved, it is how the lead Detective came to his conclusion. The sniffer dogs, the change of story, the deleted phone records, etc, etc, etc.

There is absolutely no evidence of an abductor, absolutely none.

Do you have any evidence of deleted phone records? I cannot seem to find any info on that other than rumors.

the_pen_turner wrote: »

That maybe true but that would only apply one the police got there and got the situation under control.
I can't imagine any parent not spending those minutes before the police arrived not searching

I once saw a woman looking for her child that ran off . She was running around , shouting his name and looking everywhere. That the way I would expect a parent to react

Gerry was seen frantically searching on the beach and under cars. I have not got access to the book by Goncalo Amaral but that is where I read that. Some of the witness statements in the McCann files also mention Gerry searching. It would not be uncommon for one of the parents to stay in the house / apartment at a time like this to speak with the police / answer ransom calls / be there if the child came back. To say that the parents did not search for the child is just plain wrong.

chicorytip

Something Else

Steve F wrote:

I'm wondering if this is the scenario, then he somehow convinced her that she was just as much to blame as him and they would lose the twins?? Again Just putting this out there....

The only scenario which would have resulted in the other children being taken into care is if Madeleine had been knowingly, as opposed to accidentally, administered an overdose of some sort of strong and potentially fatal sedative which should never be given to children of that particularly young age. The father may have had access to such given the nature of his work. There are perfectly legal medications such as Calpol, Dozol which induce sleep in children and are available to buy without prescription.

Steve F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq0pURPuQsk

What did Kate say?? And the big long pause after.What did she mean?

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Isn’t Kate a trained anaesthetist? Yet we are meant to believe she administered an accidental and fatal dose of what, calpol?
This just gets more and more laughable.

dubrov

Steve F wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq0pURPuQsk

What did Kate say?? And the big long pause after.What did she mean?

It must be a nightmare to lose a daughter and to have everyone scrutinise everything you say. The parents aren't even allowed smile without being accused of something.

chicorytip

Something Else

retro:electro wrote:

Isn’t Kate a trained anaesthetist? Yet we are meant to believe she administered an accidental and fatal dose of what, calpol? This just gets more and more laughable.

Oh, I thought he was the anaesthetist. My point was that perhaps the child had been given (accidentally) a fatal level of some illegal form of sedative and not the over the counter variety as you seem to be suggesting. Anybody could have made an error regarding the correct dosage, even a medical doctor.

Contributor 2013

I genuinely cannot believe the mods even allowed/posted this thread.

Surprised it hasn't ended up in full on handbags already (we've been half way there)

Good luck.

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

Isn’t Kate a trained anaesthetist? Yet we are meant to believe she administered an accidental and fatal dose of what, calpol?
This just gets more and more laughable.

No one knows if it was calpol or something more powerful....



those trained anaesthetist's


They've never ever ever ever killed anyone....

limnam

dubrov wrote: »

It must be a nightmare to lose a daughter and to have everyone scrutinise everything you say. The parents aren't even allowed smile without being accused of something.

Smiling is ok.


Not assisting in an investigation into your daughter's disappearance is not ok.


Trying to discredit highly skilled professionals hired to help you is not ok....


Spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on con artists to assit is not ok...


Stop pointing out nonsensical rubbish.


Both sides of the argument can agree there's plenty of behaviours from the mcanns that doesn't make much sense.


It doesn't make them killers. But lets not bring it down to something as trivial as them smiling...

Steve F

dubrov wrote: »

It must be a nightmare to lose a daughter and to have everyone scrutinise everything you say. The parents aren't even allowed smile without being accused of something.

Well I thought it was a genuine question.How can Kate be so positive that raising money for missing Children can't help HER missing Daughter?

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

chicorytip wrote: »

Oh, I thought he was the anaesthetist. My point was that perhaps the child had been given (accidentally) a fatal level of some illegal form of sedative and not the over the counter variety as you seem to be suggesting. Anybody could have made an error regarding the correct dosage, even a medical doctor.

Toxicology tests on the twins showed they were never given any sedatives at any stage.
That's the dodgiest thing about this theory, the idea that Kate having worked in anaesthesiology means she probably not only drugged her kids, but used some unspecified-but-scary, surgical grade anaesthetic drug to do it. And furthermore, that she screwed it up and killed one of them, which would not only make her a killer but a complete idiot.

Spanish Eyes

Follow the money.

Although I suppose the fund is a bit depleted now that Amaral won his case against them.

retro:electro

The parents did it

retro:electro wrote: »

Isn’t Kate a trained anaesthetist? Yet we are meant to believe she administered an accidental and fatal dose of what, calpol?
This just gets more and more laughable.

What if it was agreed that they would give some sedative. What if by accident they both gave it without the other knowing? Training wouldn't be much pertinent if I made sure I give enough to knock out the child for the night, but you did also a few minutes later.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What if it was agreed that they would give some sedative. What if by accident they both gave it without the other knowing? Training wouldn't be much pertinent if I made sure I give enough to knock out the child for the night, but you did also a few minutes later.

Where would they have disposed of the sedative that they administered before the police came, and how would they have smuggled it into Portugal with them, given it must have been of surgical strength?

gozunda

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

Toxicology tests on the twins showed they were never given any sedatives at any stage.
That's the dodgiest thing about this theory, the idea that Kate having worked in anaesthesiology means she probably not only drugged her kids, but used some unspecified-but-scary, surgical grade anaesthetic drug to do it. And furthermore, that she screwed it up and killed one of them, which would not only make her a killer but a complete idiot.

The problem was the lapse of time before any of their other children were tested.

The real issue there is the lack of any proper investigation by UK authorities into the full circumstance of the parents relative to the disappearance of their daughter ...

Spanish Eyes

retro:electro wrote: »

Toxicology tests on the twins showed they were never given any sedatives at any stage.
That's the dodgiest thing about this theory, the idea that Kate having worked in anaesthesiology means she probably not only drugged her kids, but used some unspecified-but-scary, surgical grade anaesthetic drug to do it. And furthermore, that she screwed it up and killed one of them, which would not only make her a killer but a complete idiot.

Phenergan is an anti histamine that knocks you out. Suitable for kids too in smaller doses than an adult obviously. I have used it for long haul flights, and many parents use it too for their kids in similar circumstances. Perfectly safe once kids are supervised as when you wake up you can be groggy for a while, I know this! Perfectly legal, available over the counter and anti histamines are often used in foreign countries in the event of bites etc.

I don't think anyone is saying that the parents killed their child. Far from it, but IF sedatives like the one I mentioned were used, well the child could have woken and wandered in a bit of a stupor, or fell and hit her head. That's a theory. No anaesthesia masks or intubation required at all.

Remember the twins slept through all the commotion. Soundly. I know some kids can sleep through an earthquake, but the commotion was going on for hours, it wasn't like someone accidentally let the cutlery drawer fall onto the tiles for example, or played music for a while. Just made me think anyway.

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

Toxicology tests on the twins showed they were never given any sedatives at any stage. .

Tests were done months later......

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Phenergan is an anti histamine that knocks you out. Suitable for kids too in smaller doses than an adult obviously. I have used it for long haul flights, and many parents use it too for their kids in similar circumstances. Perfectly safe once kids are supervised as when you wake up you can be groggy for a while, I know this! Perfectly legal, available over the counter and anti histamines are often used in foreign countries in the event of bites etc.

I don't think anyone is saying that the parents killed their child. Far from it, but IF sedatives like the one I mentioned were used, well the child could have woken and wandered in a bit of a stupor, or fell and hit her head. That's a theory. No anaesthesia masks or intubation required at all.

Remember the twins slept through all the commotion. Soundly. I know some kids can sleep through an earthquake, but the commotion was going on for hours, it wasn't like someone accidentally let the cutlery drawer fall onto the tiles for example, or played music for a while. Just made me think anyway.

I’ve already discussed this case with you on other threads and I’ve absolutely no desire to indulge your nonsense and have round 2 over here.

Spanish Eyes

retro:electro wrote: »

I’ve already discussed this case with you on other threads and I’ve absolutely no desire to indulge your nonsense and have round 2 over here.

No worries love. Off you go.

You don't have to engage with me, but I will keep posting anyway until a mod says otherwise which I will respect.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Anyone hear anything more about the Netflix doc that’s in the making? Should be interesting

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

Anyone hear anything more about the Netflix doc that’s in the making? Should be interesting

Sounds like you need to watch a few of them

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Sounds like you need to watch a few of them

Why? Because I won’t accuse two people of murdering their child without merit?

Shame on me!

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

Why? Because I won’t accuse two people of murdering their child without merit?

Shame on me!

Not at all.


Just your overall lack of understanding on anything that went on.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Not at all.


Just your overall lack of understanding on anything that went on.

Don’t we all? Isn’t that the reason it’s still unsolved?

Unless you know something we don’t limnam.

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

Don’t we all? Isn’t that the reason it’s still unsolved?

No, you can still understand the information that we have.


You don't seem to be very well informed on what's available


Many people argue she wasn't abducted here with informed opinions.


Then there's the others.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

No, you can still understand the information that we have.


You don't seem to be very well informed on what's available


Many people argue she wasn't abducted here with informed opinions.


Then there's the others.

Just because you don’t agree with my beliefs doesn’t mean they are ill informed or untrue. You’re basing your own theories on complete speculation and conjecture. Come back to me when you have something substantial to add.

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

Just because you don’t agree with my beliefs doesn’t mean they are ill informed or untrue. You’re basing your own theories on complete speculation and conjecture. Come back to me when you have something substantial to add.

It's nothing to do with disagreeing with you.


You've no idea what my theory is so just another example of you in with two feet without really understanding what's been discussed.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I have a new theory. Limnam was there that night and he bored Madeline to death with his waffle. I don’t have any evidence or anything that supports my theory but I think it happened so that’s enough. Who needs sedatives eh.

Charmeleon

The true measure of a good PR strategy: people with a different interpretation of the facts or a different opinion being treated with with contempt.

This is supposed to be a discussion of an actual crime, not a tribunal on thought crime.

Contributor 2013

Opps this is getting getting very personal now lads.

'YOU don't agree with MY beliefs'

'no wait YOU are the one not agreeing with MY beliefs'


Seriously boards staffers? Seriously?

This was only going to end one effin way.

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Follow the money.

Although I suppose the fund is a bit depleted now that Amaral won his case against them.

You must have followed the money so.
So where is this stashed money then and when are they going to start living the rock star lifestyle? How many years will it be before Gerry turns up to work in his Maserati?
Do you think they planned to kill her on holidays so they could start a Find Madeleine Fund?
Do you know the way they published their accounts every year to show where the money went? Do you think they got a crooked accountant to falsify them? How did the Met not uncover that fraud when they did their investigation?

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

I have a new theory. Limnam was there that night and he bored Madeline to death with his waffle. I don’t have any evidence or anything that supports my theory but I think it happened so that’s enough. Who needs sedatives eh.

Your original reply was much more cutting.

Sardonicat

chicorytip wrote: »

Steve F wrote:

I'm wondering if this is the scenario, then he somehow convinced her that she was just as much to blame as him and they would lose the twins?? Again Just putting this out there....

The only scenario which would have resulted in the other children being taken into care is if Madeleine had been knowingly, as opposed to accidentally, administered an overdose of some sort of strong and potentially fatal sedative which should never be given to children of that particularly young age. The father may have had access to such given the nature of his work. There are perfectly legal medications such as Calpol, Dozol which induce sleep in children and are available to buy without prescription.

Calpol is paracetamol which has no sedative effect whatsoever. It will ease away any aches and pains and reduce a temperature in child suffering from same, thus allowing them to settle and sleep but it will not sedate anyone. In a pain free individual a standard dose will have no perceptible affect at all.

limnam

splinter65 wrote: »

You must have followed the money so.
So where is this stashed money then and when are they going to start living the rock star lifestyle? How many years will it be before Gerry turns up to work in his Maserati?
Do you think they planned to kill her on holidays so they could start a Find Madeleine Fund?
Do you know the way they published their accounts every year to show where the money went? Do you think they got a crooked accountant to falsify them? How did the Met not uncover that fraud when they did their investigation?

Didn't they spend hundreds of thousands on con artists?


For a start...

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

The problem was the lapse of time before any of their other children were tested.

The real issue there is the lack of any proper investigation by UK authorities into the full circumstance of the parents relative to the disappearance of their daughter ...

If the sedative killed Maddie, why didn’t it kill the twins. They were much smaller.

limnam

splinter65 wrote: »

If the sedative killed Maddie, why didn’t it kill the twins. They were much smaller.

Really....


Maybe the twins were given less.....:eek:

Toots

Contributor 2013 wrote: »

Opps this is getting getting very personal now lads.

'YOU don't agree with MY beliefs'

'no wait YOU are the one not agreeing with MY beliefs'


Seriously boards staffers? Seriously?

This was only going to end one effin way.

Have you reported any of these posts?

Contributor 2013

limnam wrote: »

Really....


Maybe the twins were given less.....:eek:

Maybe they were given more


It's all conjecture at this point!

Contributor 2013

Toots wrote: »

Have you reported any of these posts?

No but you;re clearly seeing them.

Do you need me to?

limnam

Contributor 2013 wrote: »

Maybe they were given more


It's all conjecture at this point!

Absolutely.


Pointless point was made. Was just been pointed out.

redshoes15

Why did Kate McCann refuse to answer the following questions when they were put to her at interview? I really don’t see the sense in it.


1. On May 3 2007, around 22:00, when you entered the apartment, what did you see? What did you do? Where did you look? What did you touch?

2. Did you search inside the bedroom wardrobe? (she replied that she wouldn’t answer)

3. (shown 2 photographs of her bedroom wardrobe) Can you describe its contents?

4. Why had the curtain behind the sofa in front of the side window (whose photo was shown to her) been tampered with? Did somebody go behind that sofa?

5. How long did your search of the apartment take after you detected your daughter Madeleine’s disappearance?

6. Why did you say from the start that Madeleine had been abducted?

7. Assuming Madeleine had been abducted, why did you leave the twins home alone to go to the ‘Tapas’ and raise the alarm? Because the supposed abductor could still be in the apartment.

8. Why didn’t you ask the twins, at that moment, what had happened to their sister or why didn’t you ask them later on?

9. When you raised the alarm at the ‘Tapas’ what exactly did you say and what were your exact words?

10. What happened after you raised the alarm in the ‘Tapas’?

11. Why did you go and warn your friends instead of shouting from the verandah?

12. Who contacted the authorities?

13. Who took place in the searches?

14. Did anyone outside of the group learn of Madeleine’s disappearance in those following minutes?

15. Did any neighbour offer you help after the disappearance?

16. What does 'we let her down' mean?

17. Did Jane tell you that night that she’d seen a man with a child?

18. How were the authorities contacted and which police force was alerted?

19. During the searches, with the police already there, where did you search for Maddie, how and in what way?

20. Why did the twins not wake up during that search or when they were taken upstairs?

21. Who did you phone after the occurrence?

22. Did you call Sky News?

23. Did you know the danger of calling the media, because it could influence the abductor?

24. Did you ask for a priest?

25. By what means did you divulge Madeleine’s features, by photographs or by any other means?

26. Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?

27. What was your behaviour that night?

28. Did you manage to sleep?

29. Before travelling to Portugal did you make any comment about a foreboding or a bad feeling?

30. What was Madeleine’s behaviour like?

31. Did Maddie suffer from any illness or take any medication?

32. What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister?

33. What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister, friends and school mates?

34. As for your professional life, in how many and which hospitals have you worked?

35. What is your medical specialty?

36. Have you ever done shift work in any emergency services or other services?

37. Did you work every day?

38. At a certain point you stopped working, why?

39. Are the twins difficult to get to sleep? Are they restless and does that cause you uneasiness?

40. Is it true that sometimes you despaired with your children’s behaviour and that left you feeling very uneasy?

41. Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?

42. In England, did you medicate your children? What type of medication?

43. In the case files you were SHOWN CANINE forensic testing films, where you can see them marking due to detection of the scent of human corpse and blood traces, also human, and only human, as well as all the comments of the technician in charge of them. After watching and after the marking of the scent of corpse in your bedroom beside the wardrobe and behind the sofa, pushed up against the sofa wall, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

44. When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

45. When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

46. When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

47. When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, whose analysis was carried out in a British laboratory, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

48. Did you have any responsibility or intervention in your daughter’s disappearance?

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Really....


Maybe the twins were given less.....:eek:

But If the theory is that both parents accidentally administered this surgical strength sedative (unbeknownst to each other ) then both Maddie and the twins would have been given double the dose. If double the dose killed Maddie, then why didn’t double the dose kill the twins? It should be easy to answer, you’ve been thinking about it for 12 years....

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

^ @redshoes

She and Gerry answered every single one of those questions, many times, on a voluntary basis prior to being made Arguidos.
They refused to answer any further questions after being made official suspects upon receiving legal advice.

Surely you understand that if she and Gerry refused to answer any single question at all from day one, that alone would have been enough leverage to be arrested, seeing as they’d have been obstructing the investigation by not cooperating???

limnam

splinter65 wrote: »

But If the theory is that both parents accidentally administered this surgical strength sedative (unbeknownst to each other ) then both Maddie and the twins would have been given double the dose. If double the dose killed Maddie, then why didn’t double the dose kill the twins? It should be easy to answer, you’ve been thinking about it for 12 years....

I never suggested there was a double dose.....

Toots

Contributor 2013 wrote: »

No but you;re clearly seeing them.

Do you need me to?

Please report the posts.

I'm not the mod of this forum, the mods aren't watching here 24/7. The helpful thing to do would be report the posts, rather than slating the mods in the thread.

redshoes15

SusieBlue wrote: »

^ @redshoes

She and Gerry answered every single one of those questions, many times, on a voluntary basis prior to being made Arguidos.
They refused to answer any further questions after being made official suspects upon receiving legal advice.

Surely you understand that if she and Gerry refused to answer any single question at all from day one, that alone would have been enough leverage to be arrested, seeing as they’d have been obstructing the investigation by not cooperating???

If the police, in the middle of an investigation into my daughters disappearance, wanted to ask me any questions I had previously answered I would absolutely answer them fully and with gusto regardless of any legal advice.