Madeleine McCann

limnam

dubrov wrote: »

There isn't really evidence of anything.
The parents deserve the benefit of the doubt unless evidence proves otherwise

So why did you say no point providing evidence?


No said she didn't answer questions as a witness....


The day after answering those questions she was made a suspect and then refused to answer any questions...


I'm not sure what is been proved here? apart from the fact after answering qestions they felt they would make her a suspect?

Cyrus T Buford

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

Evidence of an abduction= missing kid

Evidence of a murder/foul play=

Sorry but thats absolute nonsense.

The fact that there is a missing kid is not "proof" of an abduction...nor is it proof of foul play.
All it is, is a fact that the child is no longer eith her parents.

You say no-one has proof of a cover up, wheras you havnt yet given credible proof of an abduction..(the child being missing..is does not proove your theory.

There are two main theories being posted on this thread, BOTH of which are highly possible.
There is no suffiant amount of proof either way (which is why they are called theories by the way retro) if there was proof...then the case would be solved and closed would it not?! Yes.

I belive it wasnt an abduction, but who is to say im wrong?!....dedinatly not you (or are you able to give me a name and description of the abductor...or where he/she/they took maddie?)

However, if the case is ever solved and IF it was found to be an abduction, then ok. I do aknowledge it as a very very likely possibility (without proof) but i just dont think thats what happened.

You are veing extreamly biased in your posts and the statment i quoted by you is absolute nonsense in my opinion.
Do you belive what you have actually said here?

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Thats the set she didn't answer?


I'm referring to what was asked as a witnessed that she was asked and answered or did i miss something on the link

This one

limnam

MonkieSocks wrote: »

This one

ok,



is it just me or do those answers not match up with the questions that were not answered?

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Cyrus T Buford wrote: »

You are veing extreamly biased in your posts and the statment i quoted by you is absolute nonsense in my opinion.
Do you belive what you have actually said here?

I am being no more bias than anyone else here accusing people of drugging, murder, disposing of a body and cover ups without even as much as a credible timeline. But yes, I’m the one spouting nonsense :rolleyes:

Hmm maybe “evidence” of an abduction was the wrong word. Indicator of an abduction would be more accurate.

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

Hmm maybe “evidence” of an abduction was the wrong word. Indicator of an abduction would be more accurate.

Both wrong.

Cyrus T Buford

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

Hmm maybe “evidence” of an abduction was the wrong word. Indicator of an abduction would be more accurate.

The fact that the child is missing can indicate absolulutly anything.
There is more than one, even two possible scenarios of that night.

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

ok,
is it just me or do those answers not match up with the questions that were not answered?

Never said they were the same questions.


She was cooperative on the 6th as a witness.


she refused to answer questions on 7th as a aguido on legal advice from her solictor Dr. Carlos Pinto de Abreu

limnam

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Never said they were the same questions.


She was cooperative on the 6th as a witness.


she refused to answer questions on 7th as a aguido on legal advice from her solictor Dr. Carlos Pinto de Abreu

Oh not saying you did.


There was others stating earlier that she answered all those questions already.



She didn't as she wasn't asked those on the 6th.


Thanks for clearing that one up for us.

Spanish Eyes

The child is dead imo.

The parents are still together, which I reckon is unusual. But there may be a pact or something, but I shudder to think of things like that.

So what do we do from here. On a discussion board I mean.

Nothing will change, the child is gone, parents ok, other kids ok, it is over until a body is found really.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Cyrus T Buford wrote: »

The fact that the child is missing can indicate absolulutly anything.
There is more than one, even two possible scenarios of that night.

Right. But to believe she was drugged murdered and disposed of requires an absurd leap in logic and is a scenario that gets trotted out time and time again without any support by those spouting it. At least with my theory I’m not blaming anyone for murder.

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

Right. But to believe she was drugged murdered and disposed of requires an absurd leap in logic and is a scenario that gets trotted out time and time again without any support by those spouting it. At least with my theory I’m not blaming anyone for murder.

Your just blaming someone else, with no evidence.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Your just blaming someone else, with no evidence.

Would you have a look at what you’re writing. Embarrassing.

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

Would you have a look at what you’re writing. Embarrassing.

Cyrus T Buford

Something Else

limnam wrote: »

Your just blaming someone else, with no evidence.

Exactly.

You have just as little proof..so what gives you the right to go "spouting" rectro.electro.??

(And before you say it again...the child being missing isnt proof) ðŸ˜

Cyrus T Buford

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

Would you have a look at what you’re writing. Embarrassing.

Hahaha...quit your spouting there!

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I’m claiming she was abducted. I’m not blaming any one person in particular.
You’re accusing real life people who also happen to be the child’s parents. Didn’t think I’d need to explain that but here we go.

Jaysus like

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

So.. I’ll ask again. Timeline of events... anyone?

Cyrus T Buford

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

I’m claiming she was abducted.
You’re accusing real life people

Yea because im sure she was abducted by Barnie The Dinasour or some other made up person

limnam

Cyrus T Buford wrote: »

Yea because im sure she was abducted by Barnie The Dinasour

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Cyrus T Buford wrote: »

Yea because im sure she was abducted by Barnie The Dinasour or some other made up person

Actually I think Barney drugged her and took her and she now lives in his tree house with him and Baby Bop. There’s no proof behind this theory but I’m 100% sure it’s true because Kate was wearing purple and green when she was being questioned so it’s a sign. Also Gerry is a fan of dinosaurs.

Mike9832

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Gerry and the tennis bag..... sorry now and if I get a warning so be it...but would the bins have been collected before anyone was alerted about the missing child?

I know it sounds awful, but at this stage all we have are theories.

At the end of the day the parents left three babies alone at night in a foreign country. That is the ONE absolute fact we know. Remember.

I thought they had them when that was the main line of enquiry years ago

Gerry to this day still denies ever having that gear bag, photo evidence suggests he had

limnam

SusieBlue wrote: »

She answered them.
Several times over.

No she didn't


This was the line of questioning as a witness


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

retro:electro wrote: »

So.. I’ll ask again. Timeline of events... anyone?

times are all approximate ranges

7.00-7.15
McCanns putting children to bed

7.15- 8.30
McCanns getting ready to go out and having a glass of wine

8.35
McCanns Arrive at Tapas Bar
Chat to Carpenter couple at another table

8.40
Jane Tanner arrives at Tapas


8.45
Rachel and Matt Oldfield leave their apartment for Tapas

8.50
Russell O’Brien arrives at Tapas
Matt Oldfield goes back to chase up the Paynes.

On his return, he listens outside McCann apartment reporting that all was quiet.

8.55
Fiona and David Payne arrive with Dianne Webster

9.05
Gerry McCann goes to check children
Notes children’s bedroom door is open wider than he thought they’d left it
Uses bathroom

9.10
Gerry McCann leaves apartment and meets Jez Wilkins for chat in street

9.15
Jane Tanner goes to do a check. Sees Gerry talking to Jez.

Sees Man carrying child walking away from apartment,Walks quickly along Rue Dr Agostinho da Silva



9.20
Gerry McCann returns to Tapas and explains that he has been chatting outside for a while.

9.25
Jane Tanner returns from her check
Kate McCann stands up to do her check but Matt Oldfield offers to pop in on his way past to do his check.


9.30
Matt Oldfield and Russell O’Brien leave Tapas together for a check.

Oldfield enters McCann apartment and listens but does not enter children’s bedroom although he says the bedroom door was half open.

On his return to the Tapas, he says that Russell O’Brien is staying with a sick child.


9.45
Jane Tanner returns to the apartment to let her husband go back to the Tapas and finish his meal.

She remains in the apartment.

10.00
Kate McCann goes to do her check and finds Madeleine missing.
Raises the alarm.

10.00
A man carrying a child is seen walking towards the beach on Rue da Escola Primaria by Smith family

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Thanks for that Monkie Socks. But your timeline doesn’t include the drugging, murder and burial of Madeline, which is what I’m interested in reading from those who believe she wasn’t abducted.

bunderoon

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

Thanks for that Monkie Socks. But your timeline doesn’t include the drugging, murder and burial of Madeline, which is what I’m interested in reading from those who believe she wasn’t abducted.

Who said that they murdered and buried her?

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

bunderoon wrote: »

Who said that they murdered and buried her?

So when you wrote this you were insinuating what exactly..

Scent of cadavor were found in multiple places in the apartment and also in the back of the car (and her blood) they hired 25 days AFTER she went missing.
He dumped the fridge freezer from the apartment.
His gym bag is missing

bunderoon

Something Else

Strange that its has to be made even clearer.

The evidence allows for the possibility of her dying in the apartment before or on that night. You seem to miss the fact that it could have been accidental.
The cadavor dogs had multiple hits in the apartment that we are told an abduction took place.

As sickening as it sounds, the fridge freezer and missing bag allows for the possibility for storage & removal.
The car boot that was flagged by the dogs could have been a transfer from items / bag that were in the apartment and were then placed in the boot of the car.

Simply put, why would cadavor dogs both flag the boot of a car that was hired after an alleged clean abduction - where no trace of an abduction / breaking & entering was found.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Grand. I’ll amend my post so:

Thanks for that Monkie Socks. But your timeline doesn’t include the drugging, possible murder/ accidental death, cover up and possible burial of Madeline or disposal of evidence, which is what I’m interested in reading from those who believe she wasn’t abducted.

Hope that clarifies.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

bunderoon wrote: »

Strange that its has to be made even clearer.

The evidence allows for the possibility of her dying in the apartment before or on that night. You seem to miss the fact that it could have been accidental.
The cadavor dogs had multiple hits in the apartment that we are told an abduction took place.

As sickening as it sounds, the fridge freezer and missing bag allows for the possibility for storage & removal.
The car boot that was flagged by the dogs could have been a transfer from items / bag that were in the apartment and were then placed in the boot of the car.

Simply put, why would cadavor dogs both flag the boot of a car that was hired after an alleged clean abduction - where no trace of an abduction / breaking & entering was found.

So what about the GDR sniffer dogs that scoured the whole area, including in the apartments? You think Portuguese dogs are inferior to British dogs or something?




I know you want to think a body could be hidden from a small army of trained sniffer/SAR dogs, but that really is very unlikely.

Charmeleon

The Portuguese dogs were trained to follow the scent of a living person from a sample of clothing for example. Martin Grimes dogs are specialists at detecting deceased victims and crime scenes.

Steve F

Mike9832 wrote: »

I thought they had them when that was the main line of enquiry years ago

Gerry to this day still denies ever having that gear bag, photo evidence suggests he had

Interesting
Do we have photo's of Gerry with said bag and do we have evidence of him denying he had it?

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

MOD
There were a few warnings in the past few days advising to play nice with each other, it looks like these notes are not being observed.


We want to keep this thread running, but it's up to the contributors of the thread to keep things civil and in the charter.


Please stay away from personal jibes at each other and stick to the facts of the case.


There will be thread bans handed out from here on to those that cannot abide by this.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Charmeleon wrote: »

The Portuguese dogs were trained to follow the scent of a living person from a sample of clothing for example. Martin Grimes dogs are specialists at detecting deceased victims and crime scenes.

Search and Rescue dogs were also used and are trained to detect people - alive or dead.

loveall

Hi all, my first post I've been reading.

The McCann story is supposed to be emotive. You're arguing the same sides of the one coin. You're supposed to argue. Stop! Be sure it's 11 years since, not 12.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

bunderoon wrote: »

Strange that its has to be made even clearer.

The evidence allows for the possibility of her dying in the apartment before or on that night. You seem to miss the fact that it could have been accidental.
The cadavor dogs had multiple hits in the apartment that we are told an abduction took place.

As sickening as it sounds, the fridge freezer and missing bag allows for the possibility for storage & removal.
The car boot that was flagged by the dogs could have been a transfer from items / bag that were in the apartment and were then placed in the boot of the car.

Simply put, why would cadavor dogs both flag the boot of a car that was hired after an alleged clean abduction - where no trace of an abduction / breaking & entering was found.

Ok, but how would they have carried out all of that without being caught or even arousing suspicion?
We're now going down the line of them storing the body in a freezer for 3 weeks after the child went missing, before putting her in the "missing" tennis bag, and into the car to dispose of. 25 days later while the glare of the worlds media was on their backs.
How did they, or how would they, have been able to execute that without leaving behind a shred of evidence to implicate themselves?
How were they not seen?

limnam

SusieBlue wrote: »

or how would they, have been able to execute that without leaving behind a shred of evidence to implicate themselves?
How were they not seen?

How did the abductor?

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

How did the abductor?

The worlds media wasn't on the abductor while the abduction was taking place.
The 3 children were alone in that apartment that night, there was nobody watching.
Its being suggested that the McCann's hid Madeleine in a fridge freezer, put her in a tennis bag, into their hire care, and then disposed of her body.
25 days after she was reported missing.

I'm curious as to the logistics of how they managed to do this undetected, when by that point, the Portuguese police were growing suspicious of them and they were being hounded at every move by the media.
Its a logical question.

limnam

SusieBlue wrote: »

The worlds media wasn't on the abductor while the abduction was taking place.
The 3 children were alone in that apartment that night, there was nobody watching.
Its being suggested that the McCann's hid Madeleine in a fridge freezer, put her in a tennis bag, into their hire care, and then disposed of her body.
25 days after she was reported missing.

I'm curious as to the logistics of how they managed to do this undetected, when by that point, the Portuguese police were growing suspicious of them and they were being hounded at every move by the media.
Its a logical question.

The fact the world is or isn't looking doesn't change the forensic feat the abductor managed to do by removing a child from a holiday complex not leave a shred of evidence. By the same night the worlds media was on everyone, potential abductor McCann etc, yet Nada.


But you're only suggesting the McCann wouldn't be able to do it in those circumstances but somehow someone else would?


then you make false claims on the thread such as Kate answering questions she was never asked.


Why are you making false claims?


It sounds like you just don't want it to be them rather than showing why it wasn't them...

IngridM20

Accident happened, parents hid body

New poster - I've been following the thread since it was posted, and have in the past been in the camp of giving the McCann's 'the benefit of the doubt'.

However, since watching all (I got obsessed!) the YouTube interviews, I simply cannot abide these two. They are guilty as sin, and I hope it is discovered in our lifetime. I am glad people are still talking about it, and by the looks of things, most are suspicious of these two monsters. I particularly despise the smug cold bastard Gerry. I feel sorry for their young teen twins.

I just don't understand how they can calmly hide and bury their daughter even if it was an unintentional overdose. This part makes my head spin, along with the numerous paedo connections... RIP Madeleine.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

The fact the world is or isn't looking doesn't change the forensic feat the abductor managed to do by removing a child from a holiday complex not leave a shred of evidence. By the same night the worlds media was on everyone, potential abductor McCann etc, yet Nada.


But you're only suggesting the McCann wouldn't be able to do it in those circumstances but somehow someone else would?


then you make false claims on the thread such as Kate answering questions she was never asked.


Why are you making false claims?


It sounds like you just don't want it to be them rather than showing why it wasn't them...

You are being disingenuous by saying those scenarios are the same when they absolutely aren't.
Madeleine disappeared from that apartment with no witnesses, no sightings, nothing. There was literally no one watching at all, hence the case remains unsolved a decade later.

Yet you are trying to compare like for like saying the McCanns would have been able to store the body for over 3 weeks, and dispose of it in their hire care using a tennis bag, while their every move was being scrutinised by both the media and two police forces?
Which media and police force were on the scene when the abduction was actually taking place, or if it suits you better, the minutes were Madeleine disappeared?

Kate was interviewed for 11 hours a day in the 3 days prior to being made arguido. I'm not making any false claims.
You are the one being insincere saying the McCanns would have been able to store, hide and dispose of a body while the whole world was watching.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

IngridM20 wrote: »

New poster - I've been following the thread since it was posted, and have in the past been in the camp of giving the McCann's 'the benefit of the doubt'.

However, since watching all (I got obsessed!) the YouTube interviews, I simply cannot abide these two. They are guilty as sin, and I hope it is discovered in our lifetime. I am glad people are still talking about it, and by the looks of things, most are suspicious of these two monsters. I particularly despise the smug cold bastard Gerry. I feel sorry for their young teen twins.

I just don't understand how they can calmly hide and bury their daughter even if it was an unintentional overdose. This part makes my head spin, along with the numerous paedo connections... RIP Madeleine.

How do you think they did it? Without catching themselves out, how do you think they managed to do that?

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

It’s inaccurate that the abductor left “no evidence whatsoever”, vital evidence was probably destroyed that night by the failure to close off the crime scene, allowing some 20 people to roam through the rooms and the yard as the scene was not preserved.

“Professor Dave Barclay, a forensic analyst, told a Channel 4 Dispatches documentary the evidence might have cleared her parents of involvement on day one.
He said police should have been “more aggressive” in protecting the family’s holiday apartment from being contaminated. “It’s clear that the forensic examination on the first day wasn’t what we would have expected,” he said.
“There were opportunities missed. And one of those opportunities did a great disservice to the McCanns.”
Chris Stevens, a former detective superintendent, said after an examination of the scene that a potential abductor could have been in and out of the apartment in “less than a minute”.

Also there were photos of officers in normal clothes without gloves, more effort could have been made for sure.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

IngridM20 wrote: »

I just don't understand how they can calmly hide and bury their daughter even if it was an unintentional overdose. This part makes my head spin, along with the numerous paedo connections... RIP Madeleine.

Most of us can’t understand that. Care to give us a timeline of events to back up your theory?

Also YouTube is FULL of conspiracy videos. I’m pretty sure there’s one at the minute saying Britney was behind 9/11.

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

It’s inaccurate that the abductor left “no evidence whatsoever” , vital evidence was probably destroyed that night by the failure to close off the crime scene, allowing some 20 people to roam through the rooms and the yard as the scene was not preserved.

“Professor Dave Barclay, a forensic analyst, told a Channel 4 Dispatches documentary the evidence might have cleared her parents of involvement on day one.
He said police should have been “more aggressive” in protecting the family’s holiday apartment from being contaminated. “It’s clear that the forensic examination on the first day wasn’t what we would have expected,” he said.
“There were opportunities missed. And one of those opportunities did a great disservice to the McCanns.”
Chris Stevens, a former detective superintendent, said after an examination of the scene that a potential abductor could have been in and out of the apartment in “less than a minute”.

Also there were photos of officers in normal clothes without gloves, more effort could have been made for sure.

Prof X says Y - FACT!


Professional dog trainer now hired by the FBI says X - BS!


Porturguse police trying to entrap! - FACT!


British police with holding statements from people who holiday'd with the McCanns - British Police the real heros.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Prof X says Y - FACT!


Professional dog trainer now hired by the FBI says X - BS!


Porturguse police trying to entrap! - FACT!


British police with holding statements from people who holiday'd with the McCanns - British Police the real heros.

Look. I know you really really want it to have been Kate and Gerry. But really really wanting something isn’t enough. You have to back up your beliefs with facts. You can’t even provide a basic timeline.

limnam

retro:electro wrote: »

Look. I know you really really want it to have been Kate and Gerry. But really really wanting something isn’t enough. You have to back up your beliefs with facts. You can’t even provide a basic timeline.

I don't care who did it.


I've no interest in blaming the McCann's on something they didn't do.

loveall

Why do you believe MM is dead?

or

why do you believe she was abducted?

Plumbthedepths

Firmly believe the McCanns were involved directly or indirectly . Based on everything I have read and seen todate.The child died on the day in question or shortly thereafter. Her bones may one day be found, but those responsible are still there getting on with their lives.
This is all the rest of you have aswell an opinion based on what is in the public domain. You are equally wrong in your assertions as you are right.

xalot

Something Else

Steve F wrote: »

Interesting
Do we have photo's of Gerry with said bag and do we have evidence of him denying he had it?

https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.com/2017/02/hunt-for-gerrys-missing-tennis-bag.html

Dont know anything about the website or it's accuracy but the photo looks genuine. Another forum quotes Goncalo as saying:

The issue with the bag is the following, Gerald McCann said at one point in time that he did not have any sports bag. Mark Harrison, an English expert, who did the planning of the searches that were carried out with the CSI dogs, of the cadaver odour and blood, at the end of July, early August, puts forward that serious hypothesis - that the body was taken inside a sports bag, he speaks of a golf bag, of a sports bag – and indeed a sports bag existed. There are photographs taken inside the apartment [rented by the McCanns/5A] immediately after the disappearance, an hour later, and the sports bag is there, inside the closet and is of a darkish blue colour. Thus, those photographs exist, contrary to what anyone can say that they did not own a sports bag – the sports bag was there. A sports bag, even though there wasn't any brand like "Adidas" in the bag, but it was a bag of that kind. So, what happened to that bag, what took place next, other situations ensued relatively to another bag, something that it's not worth mentioning now here, there are people who also talk about a bag...

Don't forget, Goncalo's version of the investigation has been ruled a faithful and accurate one by the Portugese Supreme Court.

There was a blue sports bag, now there isnt."

The fact that Gerry and Clarence Mitchell both deny this bag existed raises concerns for me.