Madeleine McCann

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Shop40 wrote: »

Why didn’t the McCanns search for Madeleine themselves when she went missing? He even played a game of tennis in the days afterward.

Nothing will convince me they don’t know what happened.

To be honest, nobody could understand their mindset at that time.
Also, they may have been advised to go about things as normal and do stuff to try take their mind off things. Only they know that.

fin12

Accident happened, parents hid body

Deusexmachina wrote: »

We are 100% sure Madeline was alive when she was abducted’.
Again, what is suspicious about that him saying that? He is saying that they believe the abductor didn’t murder her and then remove the body. (Which happens in many cases - Soham girls for example).

‘We can tell you we are not connected with her death’.
This is if she is dead. The family have always said that there is still a chance she is still alive until a body is found. He was answering a question worded in that way.

You are using semantics to find ‘suspicious’ behavior where there is none. If Gerry had killed his own daughter and miraculously buried her body without being seen, there would be a huge amount of evidence surfaced at this stage.

Give the poor parents a break. You have no evidence whatsoever that they killed their daughter - just a lot of conjecture which is very unfair on grieving parents.

And u have no evidence either that they weren’t involved.

Babooshka

Boom_Bap wrote: »

To be honest, nobody could understand their mindset at that time.
Also, they may have been advised to go about things as normal and do stuff to try take their mind off things. Only they know that.

Did they speak about this in the aftermath? you sound as though you know for a fact that people around them didn't understand why they acted normal, just curious. I certainly could not go play a game of tennis feeling sick to my stomach that my 3 yr old was somewhere I had no idea where, that is probably the hardest part of this for me to understand and it does seem unbelievably odd. I don't even think they did any of the stuff a lot of people do, but that boggles my mind completely.

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I've no idea if they spoke of it and know nothing of fact
You are speaking of how you would deal/cope, everyone in that situation would/could act differently, that's the angle that I'm looking from.
Nobody can say for sure how or why they done anything in the days after the event.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Babooshka wrote: »

Did they speak about this in the aftermath? you sound as though you know for a fact that people around them didn't understand why they acted normal, just curious. I certainly could not go play a game of tennis feeling sick to my stomach that my 3 yr old was somewhere I had no idea where, that is probably the hardest part of this for me to understand and it does seem unbelievably odd. I don't even think they did any of the stuff a lot of people do, but that boggles my mind completely.

I think it's difficult to get into their mindset at the best of times . I accept that everyone is different but I struggle with a lot of the Mc Canns decisions to be honest .
The fact they brought three small children on holiday to Portugal snd then put them in a creche boggles my mind . They saw them at best for two or three hours a day , the rest was all about them . Jogging , tennis , meals out
The fact they looked at the risks of leaving three small children alone and unsupervised and chose to have a meal out instead
The fact they heard Madeleine say she and Sean cried and still went and left them that very night again
The fact they ignored the offer of a paid baby sitter to watch over three very young instead decided to leave them unsupervised
All these decisions scream out that it was all about the adults having a good time , they scream selfishness and lack of any sort of compromise .
In my world parents take kids on holidays and enjoy them enjoying it . They put them to bed and stay with them or take them out asleep in buggies
I posted early in thread that most thinking ,caring , responsible parents would do this instinctively .


Yet I still don't see it as leading me to believe they purposely harmed Madeleine . I think they handed her on a plate by making it very easy for an opportunist or a planned abduction . This they have to live with and in my opinion it is this guilt that drives them to never letting this go and thinking that Madeleine is alive and waiting . Guilt is a huge huge burden to carry .

MrStuffins

fin12 wrote: »

And u have no evidence either that they weren’t involved.

And I have no evidence that the ghost of John Lennon lives on the moon. It's not up to someone to have proof that something ISN'T the case. it's the other way around.

Babooshka

iamwhoiam wrote: »

This they have to live with and in my opinion it is this guilt that drives them to never letting this go and thinking that Madeleine is alive and waiting . Guilt is a huge huge burden to carry .

I am very much of the same mindset as you. Not relating to their parenting style doesn't make them guilty of being involved in anything more sinister than neglect and handing them up for an opportunist. I do agree spending a holiday with the kids is for the kids fun mainly, a babysitter at night, I get it, that would have been the answer - but too late for that little pet, and I'm sure they agonise over that. It's so tragic and sad.

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

MonkieSocks wrote: »

" We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"
Why would anyone abduct a dead body?
link for this

Says it at 2mins 10 sec approx
.

Thanks for link.


We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"


What is wrong with that statement.



_________________________________________________________

Why would anyone abduct a dead body?

There is no Forensic Evidence, None absolutely that there was a cadaver in 5A

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

MOD NOTE
I'm lifting all the thread bans that were put in place last week.

For those returning, please play nice.

fin12

Accident happened, parents hid body

MrStuffins wrote: »

And I have no evidence that the ghost of John Lennon lives on the moon. It's not up to someone to have proof that something ISN'T the case. it's the other way around.

No u can be as guilty as sin but not enough evidence to convict u.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

fin12 wrote: »

No u can be as guilty as sin but not enough evidence to convict u.

So what? It's a meaningless statement of the obvious that brings nothing to the discussion. The MacCaans are as legally innocent..

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I would say that they have reconciled themselves with the fact that Madeline is now dead. In a way, it’s probably the best scenario out of some bad options. I think after all this time I would just rather her to be at peace rather than being under the control of god knows who, so him saying “we had nothing to do with her death”, isn’t that remarkable to me. I think this over analysis of what they did or didn’t do or did or didn’t say in the aftermath is futile. We were privileged from the start in that we had unrestricted access to their every move, and so a lot of what they said and did was up for consumption. We do not have that kind of access with other cases, and so actually, we have no idea how people in this scenario should act. Look at Shannon Matthew’s mum, what you would think to be a textbook response to a missing child, yet it later came out she was responsible. I’m sure if you went through every crime ever committed you would find the loved ones doing all sorts of suspicious and odd things, but this shouldn’t be used as a barometer for guilt or innocence. I know through some of the hardest times of my life I’ve done and said some stupid things, I would hope no one would judge me for things I did when I was at my lowest.

Also, if we are to believe Gerry was involved in her death- through accidental or intent- would he really go out and play tennis the next day? He would totally milk it and do a Karen Matthews on it. People paint a picture of him as a clinically cold father and person, disposed of Maddie and staged an abduction so he could keep Sean and Amelie.. surely if the casual disposal of his little daughter’s body was such a non event in his life then losing custody of his other two children would be a walk in the park.

Also, just imagine for a minute that they weren’t involved. Not only have they had to live with the fact their daughter was abducted, but also half of the internet believe they killed her. It’s just wrong. I’m not excusing their behaviour, it was awful and they are part responsible for handing her up on a plate as an earlier post correctly says.

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

" We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"

There may be evidence that proves this happened which could prove this statement true. We just don't know, I'm just playing devils advocate on that.



Not all evidence is released to the press/media, so we don't know.

fin12

Accident happened, parents hid body

retro:electro wrote: »

I would say that they have reconciled themselves with the fact that Madeline is now dead. In a way, it’s probably the best scenario out of some bad options. I think after all this time I would just rather her to be at peace rather than being under the control of god knows who, so him saying “we had nothing to do with her death”, isn’t that remarkable to me. I think this over analysis of what they did or didn’t do or did or didn’t say in the aftermath is futile. We were privileged from the start in that we had unrestricted access to their every move, and so a lot of what they said and did was up for consumption. We do not have that kind of access with other cases, and so actually, we have no idea how people in this scenario should act. Look at Shannon Matthew’s mum, what you would think to be a textbook response to a missing child, yet it later came out she was responsible. I’m sure if you went through every crime ever committed you would find the loved ones doing all sorts of suspicious and odd things, but this shouldn’t be used as a barometer for guilt or innocence. I know through some of the hardest times of my life I’ve done and said some stupid things, I would hope no one would judge me for things I did when I was at my lowest.

Also, if we are to believe Gerry was involved in her death- through accidental or intent- would he really go out and play tennis the next day? He would totally milk it and do a Karen Matthews on it. People paint a picture of him as a clinically cold, disposed of Maddie and staged an abduction so he could keep Sean and Amelie.. surely if the casual disposal of his little daughter’s body was such a non event in his life then losing custody of his other two children would be a walk in the park.

Might not have been about the other two children at all, didnt want to lose his career and go to prison.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Orrrr.. maybe he didn’t kill her :pac:

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

fin12 wrote: »

And u have no evidence either that they weren’t involved.

Thankfully the pinnacle of justice relies on proving guilt, not innocence.

Steve F

retro:electro wrote: »

Thankfully the pinnacle of justice relies on proving guilt, not innocence.

Neither of which has been done.........

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Exactly

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Boom_Bap wrote: »

There may be evidence that proves this happened which could prove this statement true. We just don't know, I'm just playing devils advocate on that.

Not all evidence is released to the press/media, so we don't know.

What evidence is there that hasn't been released?

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

What evidence is there that hasn't been released?

That's the thing, we don't know.
Evidence in cases can be withheld from the public, we don't know if there is any in this case

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Boom_Bap wrote: »

That's the thing, we don't know.
Evidence in cases can be withheld from the public, we don't know if there is any in this case

The PJ report and files release were pretty thorough. I doubt they are keeping secrets hidden. Stating there is withheld evidence belongs in a conspiracy forum.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

The PJ report and files release were pretty thorough. I doubt they are keeping secrets hidden. Stating there is withheld evidence belongs in a conspiracy forum.

The police do not release all evidence to the public. Not should they. Even if something goes to court, not all evidence may be brought before the court.
There's no need to release all evidence to the public, just to satisfy nosey people.
Police release what they want to release, if they want to.

Deusexmachina

fin12 wrote: »

And u have no evidence either that they weren’t involved.

I have no evidence that you weren’t involved either, but innocent until proven guilty and all that.

goat2

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

bubblypop wrote: »

The police do not release all evidence to the public. Not should they. Even if something goes to court, not all evidence may be brought before the court.
There's no need to release all evidence to the public, just to satisfy nosey people.
Police release what they want to release, if they want to.

If they have evidence, why then is there no one in court, with evidence there would be an answer

fin12

Accident happened, parents hid body

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I have no evidence that you weren’t involved either, but innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Except I have an air tight alabi during that time, was 17 and still in School.

Deusexmachina

fin12 wrote: »

Except I have an air tight alabi during that time, was 17 and still in School.

The Mc Canns have a tight alibi too. Unless you believe all their friends were and still are complicit in her death and that her body was magically buried out of sight before the alarm was raised and never found despite all the searches by two police forces.
And if you believe all that there’s this bridge I’d like to sell you.

Sadb

retro:electro wrote: »

I don’t think Kate and Gerry had anything to do with it. I think the most obvious answer is what likely happened. Someone had been watching their behaviour on previous nights and acted on opportunity when they knew the kids were alone. I don’t think Kate and Gerry are particularly nice people, in fact I don’t like them at all and they are partly responsible for what happened to their daughter. But I just don’t think they’re capable of what some people are accusing them of. It’s clear as day that Kate is tormented ever since and she has grief written all over her face. I think they’re cold and detached and odd and have made a lot of strange decisions but I don’t think they’re murderers.

What do you think is the most obvious answer? Because it’s certainly not a child being abducted from her bed while on holiday in Spain.

Sadb

smelly sock wrote: »

Being a parent i dont think any mother or father could knowingly cover it up and act it out for all these years.

I would say the child was snatched. Any of the missing kids cases is heart breaking.

Have you seriously never read/heard any stories of atrocities committed by parents on their own children? I would say they are far far more common than stranger attacks.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Sadb wrote: »

What do you think is the most obvious answer? Because it’s certainly not a child being abducted from her bed while on holiday in Spain.

Because when a decided lack of evidence equates to anything else, then all signs tend to point towards. It’s the most likely scenario in my opinion

Sadb

Seve OB wrote: »

I would never leave my kids either but look at it this way. This was 11 years ago now. Fresh in your mind as your nippers are growing up and a reason for us to be so protective over our kids.
Maybe this case is a contributing factor to the protective nature we place on our kids nowadays.

I mean go back to when I was the same age back in the 80s and was left out on the street all day playing ball etc.

Times change, the McCanns got caught out, but just maybe there is more cotton wool around our kids nowadays because of Madeline.

I have a child the same age as Madeleine and I never left him alone before this case occurred. It was not normal behaviour 11 years ago anyway.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Sadb wrote: »

I have a child the same age as Madeleine and I never left him alone before this case occurred. It was not normal behaviour 11 years ago anyway.

I have a son who is now 38 , I never left him for a second at that age . It wasn't normal behaviour even way back then either . I don't know anyone then or now who would even think it

limnam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have a son who is now 38 , I never left him for a second at that age . It wasn't normal behaviour even way back then either . I don't know anyone then or now who would even think it

Think it was the McCanns spokesperson who told prime time that it was perfectly normal for brits to leave thier kids alone on holidays


bizzaareee statement to make.

Kidchameleon

It was stupid to leave the kids alone of course but the McCanns have never said it was a good idea and have stated their regret many many times. I dont know why people keep banging on about it - they agree that it was wrong!

ozzy jr

Something Else

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I dont know why people keep banging on about it

Because it's the reason why the poor girl is missing/dead.

Steve F

News just in
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46196238

ozzy jr

ozzy jr wrote: »

Because it's the reason why the poor girl is missing/dead.

No, the reason she is abducted / dead is because someone abducted her and/or killed her.
Leaving kids alone was never the right thing to do, but she wouldn't have been abducted/killed if someone didn't do that.
The actual offender is the person who abdicted/killed her.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

bubblypop wrote: »

No, the reason she is abducted / dead is because someone abducted her and/or killed her.
Leaving kids alone was never the right thing to do, but she wouldn't have been abducted/killed if someone didn't do that.
The actual offender is the person who abdicted/killed her.

She wouldn't have been abducted if she wasn't left alone

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

She wouldn't have been abducted if she wasn't left alone

You dont know that
No one does

Steve F

Opinions on this clip please
a couple of key points are Gerry's reaction at 4 seconds in and the look he gives her at 1:06???
Again I feel something is "off"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kaoVqWaOQI

the_pen_turner

Something Else

bubblypop wrote: »

You dont know that
No one does

no one can know that she wouldnt have been abducted but its very likely that if the parents or sitter was there and the door locked etc that she whould have been a lot less likeely to be.

surely a would be abducter wouldnt break into a appartment with parents in it and risk being caught

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

bubblypop wrote: »

You dont know that
No one does

In all fairness we can make a good guess that if Madeleine was being looked after and supervised it is highly unlikely she would be taken

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

the_pen_turner wrote: »

no one can know that she wouldnt have been abducted but its very likely that if the parents or sitter was there and the door locked etc that she whould have been a lot less likeely to be.

surely a would be abducter wouldnt break into a appartment with parents in it and risk being caught

Unfortunately it has happened:

Girl, six, is abducted from bath and left naked in street

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1506491/Girl-six-is-abducted-from-bath-and-left-naked-in-street.html

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

In all fairness we can make a good guess that if Madeleine was being looked after and supervised it is highly unlikely she would be taken

Maybe, maybe not, as that story shows.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not, as that story shows.

Well , the maybe not is much much more likely .

Something Else

An abduction just seems so unlikely. The evidence never really pointed that way at all. It's a tourist resort, there would have been a lot of people around and the parents were making checks. One would have had to have been very fortunate to get in and out with a child undetected. Not to mention a 3 year old would likely scream and kick up a fuss if they woke up in a stranger's arms.

I also don't think the area had any sort of history of abducted young girls.

I also doubt that the checks were precise. That's important because it makes it even harder to plan.

Deusexmachina

ozzy jr wrote: »

Because it's the reason why the poor girl is missing/dead.

No. That unfair. It’s not the reason. They were wrong to leave their kids alone. But they didn’t kill Madeline. The two events are not morally equal.

Deusexmachina

Deleted User wrote: »

An abduction just seems so unlikely. The evidence never really pointed that way at all. It's a tourist resort, there would have been a lot of people around and the parents were making checks. One would have had to have been very fortunate to get in and out with a child undetected. Not to mention a 3 year old would likely scream and kick up a fuss if they woke up in a stranger's arms.

I also don't think the area had any sort of history of abducted young girls.

I also doubt that the checks were precise. That's important because it makes it even harder to plan.

Have you read anything about the case?

fin12

Accident happened, parents hid body

Outside of the MCCanns and their friends at dinner, what time was the last independent sighting of Madeline on May 3rd?

Deusexmachina

Something Else

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Have you read anything about the case?

Yeah lots. Not recently though. Have you?

fin12

Something Else

fin12 wrote: »

Outside of the MCCanns and their friends at dinner, what time was the last independent sighting of Madeline on May 3rd?

Fairly sure she was at the kids club until 6pm. Nobody outside the McCanns saw her after.
Matthew Oldfield went to check on the kids at 9:30 I believe but didn't look very hard and couldn't recall if Madeline was there or not...

Why he bothered going at all is odd. Surely you'd at least look to see if the kids were there!