Madeleine McCann

Plumbthedepths

splinter65 wrote:

What crime did they commit? If you believe a crime was committed then you surely know the name of the law that was broken. Is it not amazing to you that considering the tapas children were in so much danger from there parents, that no misfortune has befallen any of them ever since?

They lost one child through their irresponsible behaviour, it would have seemed bizarre if they lost another child if they continued with their behaviour. Already answered your question that you were too impatient to await an answer.

Plumbthedepths

splinter65 wrote:

Under which statute in Portuguese law is abondonment a crime, and what is the criteria to meet such a charge?

It was very easy for me to find the reference to 'abandonment of a minor in Portuguese law. You can easily do the same.
You can twist my comment any way you want but it does not change the fact that they are responsible for the disappearance of their daughter and I suspect her death by whatever circumstances it occurred.

limnam

splinter65 wrote: »

But who was going to benefit from them being charged put on trial found guilty and punished?

Another child of other reckless parents who don't do it as they know there's consequences ?

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

They lost one child through their irresponsible behaviour, it would have seemed bizarre if they lost another child if they continued with their behaviour. Already answered your question that you were too impatient to await an answer.

No I saw your answer but you didn’t answer my question about the criteria in Portuguese justice to meet a charge of abandonment and my other query about which statute in Portuguese law mentions abandonment?

Plumbthedepths

splinter65 wrote:

No I saw your answer but you didn’t answer my question about the criteria in Portuguese justice to meet a charge of abandonment and my other query about which statute in Portuguese law mentions abandonment?

You got an answer, the fact you don't like it is not my problem.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

They lost one child through their irresponsible behaviour, it would have seemed bizarre if they lost another child if they continued with their behaviour. Already answered your question that you were too impatient to await an answer.

They lost a child, but the likely culprit was a predatory pedophile. That's who should be blamed.

Children have been taken from their bath with their parent in another room, driven away, raped and dumped. No blame on the parent's there for not keeping a closer watch - as well there shouldn't be. The blame should lie with the criminal. Literally hundreds of thousands small children drown every decade and their parents cop nothing like the flak the McCanns have to put up with from people with your mindset.

There is no punishment you or society could visit on the McCanns that is worse than they have already received.

Plumbthedepths

cnocbui wrote:

They lost a child, but the likely culprit was a predatory pedophile. That's who should be blamed.

So you believe the McCanns bare no responsibility?

limnam

cnocbui wrote: »

They lost a child, but the likely culprit was a predatory pedophile. That's who should be blamed.

There's no evidence of this.

cnocbui wrote: »

Children have been taken from their bath with their parent in another room, driven away, raped and dumped. No blame on the parent's there for not keeping a closer watch - as well there shouldn't be. The blame should lie with the criminal. Literally hundreds of thousands small children drown every decade and their parents cop nothing like the flak the McCanns have to put up with from people with your mindset.

Because someone was taken from a bath doesn't mean you should head of to a restraunt and leave your kids to fend for themselves.


Your either not a parent or not very bright.

cnocbui wrote: »

There is no punishment you or society could visit on the McCanns that is worse than they have already received.

That's partially true if they were not involved in her death/dissapearance

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

There's no evidence of this.

There doesn't have to be. There is no evidence that points to what might have happened to Madeline. I think that Occam's razor makes the abduction theory the most plausible one.

Because someone was taking from a bath doesn't mean you should head of to a restraunt and leave your kids to fend for themselves.


Your either not a parent or not very bright.

You will get a caution if you carry on with personal insults like that. I am a parent and they have both managed to reach adulthood under my irresponsible care.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So you believe the McCanns bare no responsibility?

None whatsoever.

limnam

cnocbui wrote: »

You will get a caution if you carry on with personal insults like that. I am a parent and they have both managed to reach adulthood under my irresponsible care.

What personal insult?


If you think it's ok to leave three kids in an aparentment while you go out to a restraunt it means only 1 of two things. You're not a parent. Or you're not very bright. E.g. a very bad parent if you think the aboe is ok, this is not a personal insult. it's a fact.

Plumbthedepths

cnocbui wrote:

None whatsoever.

That's your opinion, I'm of the opinion they are fully responsible for their child's loss and more likely death.

limnam

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

That's your opinion, I'm of the opinion they are fully responsible for their child's loss and more likely death.

I think the Portuguese police called it wreckless in the docu

shamrock55

Something Else

splinter65 wrote: »

But who was going to benefit from them being charged put on trial found guilty and punished? What purpose would that serve? Children go missing all the time and are found safe and sound later. Should all those parents be charged with neglect or only the McCanns? Should all the Tapas 7 be charged with neglect or only the McCanns? Surely if they were charged with neglect then all their children should have been taken into care. Do you think that would be a good idea? Do you think that all the children are still in danger from their neglectful parents today?

Well for one thing, the other 2 children would benefit from their parents never leaving them alone in a strange place again if nothing else

Plumbthedepths

limnam wrote:

I think the Portuguese police called it wreckless in the docu

I would imagine they were being conservative with their description of the McCanns actions.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

What personal insult?


If you think it's ok to leave three kids in an aparentment while you go out to a restraunt it means only 1 of two things. You're not a parent. Or you're not very bright. E.g. a very bad parent if you think the aboe is ok, this is not a personal insult. it's a fact.

Saying someone isn't 'very bright' because you don't agree with them is a personal insult, it's not an argument. What you are claiming as fact is actually just a personal opinion.

shamrock55

Something Else

The 2 things I took from the single episode I watched was when one of the mcanns friends went to check but only went to the bedroom door but never looked in apparently, why would you get up from your dinner, walk 100yrds to check children yet not even bother to poke your head through an open door
I find that extraordinary tbh, also the fact that they let the side door that lead directly onto the street open is mind boggling unless of course this was the plan and their conststant checking was only to see had the job been done, after all the first thing Kate said was they've taken madeline

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You got an answer, the fact you don't like it is not my problem.

So you think they should have been charged with “abandonment” but you don’t know if such a crime exists in Portugal and you don’t know what the criteria is either. Gotcha.

limnam

cnocbui wrote: »

Saying someone isn't 'very bright' because you don't agree with them is a personal insult, it's not an argument. What you are claiming as fact is actually just a personal opinion.

This is not about disagreeing with you.


Leaving your kids alone while you go to the pub is wreckless. ( this is been kind)



Only a complete idiot would think otherwise.

Plumbthedepths

splinter65 wrote:

So you think they should have been charged with “abandonment†but you don’t know if such a crime exists in Portugal and you don’t know what the criteria is either. Gotcha.

Funny the Sun carried a story quoting the Portuguese interior minister who stated they considered making the McCanns aguidos for child abandonment. The article is easily found but again I don't suppose searching would suit your agenda.

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It was very easy for me to find the reference to 'abandonment of a minor in Portuguese law. You can easily do the same.
You can twist my comment any way you want but it does not change the fact that they are responsible for the disappearance of their daughter and I suspect her death by whatever circumstances it occurred.

But you brought up the charge of abandonment so surely it’s not difficult for you to back that up with a link.
You are stating categorically here that the McCanns are responsible for the death and/or disappeance of their daughter. Have you forwarded your theory and supporting evidence to either if the investigating police forces? Because if you haven’t then I might as well claim that you are responsible for the disappeance of Lord Lucan.

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Funny the Sun carried a story quoting the Portuguese interior minister who stated they considered making the McCanns aguidos for child abandonment. The article is easily found but again I don't suppose searching would suit your agenda.

So your knowledge of Portuguese law extends to but doesn’t exceed something that you read in the Sun 10 years ago. I see.

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

shamrock55 wrote: »

The 2 things I took from the single episode I watched was when one of the mcanns friends went to check but only went to the bedroom door but never looked in apparently, why would you get up from your dinner, walk 100yrds to check children yet not even bother to poke your head through an open door
I find that extraordinary tbh, also the fact that they let the side door that lead directly onto the street open is mind boggling unless of course this was the plan and their conststant checking was only to see had the job been done, after all the first thing Kate said was they've taken madeline

What plan was this now?

Plumbthedepths

splinter65 wrote:

So your knowledge of Portuguese law extends to but doesn’t exceed something that you read in the Sun 10 years ago. I see.

Pathetic response tbh .

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

What personal insult?


If you think it's ok to leave three kids in an aparentment while you go out to a restraunt it means only 1 of two things. You're not a parent. Or you're not very bright. E.g. a very bad parent if you think the aboe is ok, this is not a personal insult. it's a fact.

You can’t accuse someone who doesn’t agree with you of being a bad parent or being stupid. It is merely your opinion that leaving the children in their bedrooms to be checked on every half hour was neglect. Just your opinion. It doesn’t make you right and it doesn’t make you a good parent, or bright for that matter.

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Pathetic response tbh .

Your knowledge of Portuguese justice extends to an article you read in the Sun newspaper. Fact. That’s all anybody needs to know about any theory you might have.

limnam

splinter65 wrote: »

You can’t accuse someone who doesn’t agree with you of being a bad parent or being stupid. It is merely your opinion that leaving the children in their bedrooms to be checked on every half hour was neglect. Just your opinion. It doesn’t make you right and it doesn’t make you a good parent, or bright for that matter.

I thought we were all well past the fact that what they did was neglectful.


It has normally been the one thing the vast majority agreed on here.


I think most normal balanced folk will admit leaving 3 young kids of that age alone in an unlocked apartment in a foriegn country is wreckless.


*shrug*

limnam

I think Gerry is an agreement anyway


Gerry McCann told yesterday of his terrible regret at leaving his children alone on the night Madeleine disappeared.



He admitted: 'We made a mistake, but we are paying more for it than anyone could ever possibly imagine.'



If it was the right thing to do. It wouldn't be a mistake.

Plumbthedepths

splinter65 wrote:

Your knowledge of Portuguese justice extends to an article you read in the Sun newspaper. Fact. That’s all anybody needs to know about any theory you might have.

I will take the opinions of Rui Pereira former Portuguese interior minister over the snide comments of an anonymous internet user anytime.
As for theory I have not put forward one, however if I did it would have the same validity as any other one posted here. What is fact is the child disappearance is solely down to the behaviour of her parents nothing you say changes that.

shamrock55

Something Else

splinter65 wrote: »

What plan was this now?

To have someone take her of course

limnam

Moita Flores, a former police chief, backed his countryman, Pereira and told
the show that if Kate and Gerry had been Portuguese, they would have been
arrested for abandonment.



Speaking on a documentary in 2013, he said: “Have no doubts. If this had
involved a Portuguese child our public ministry would have immediately set
off measures which are in place to protect children.



“In our culture this kind of behaviour would have not been tolerated as
reasonable. I am not even sure it is tolerated under Anglo-Saxon cultural
values.’’

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Of course what the parents did was wrong . Law or no law they left three small children alone . Forget abduction for a minute but remember much higher risks. Falling , high temperatures , seizures , crying in fear from a bad dream , crying with lonliness for their mummy , coughing , choking , are all risks the Mc Canns chose to disregard for a quiet dinner and a bottle of wine
Of course it was wrong

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I will take the opinions of Rui Pereira former Portuguese interior minister over the snide comments of an anonymous internet user anytime.
As for theory I have not put forward one, however if I did it would have the same validity as any other one posted here. What is fact is the child disappearance is solely down to the behaviour of her parents nothing you say changes that.

He's just a politician saying things to make him and his country look good. The key point is they didn't.

Portugal is a country with a legal system that lets a man abduct a teenager, rape her several times, admit to doing so in court and walk out of the court laughing, literally. He was told not to do it again, so I suppose that's something.

Personally I wouldn't be holding up a Portuguese politician tolerant of such a legal system as someone having a gravitas of commendable moral authority and high ethics.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Of course what the parents did was wrong . Law or no law they left three small children alone . Forget abduction for a minute but remember much higher risks. Falling , high temperatures , seizures , crying in fear from a bad dream , crying with lonliness for their mummy , coughing , choking , are all risks the Mc Canns chose to disregard for a quiet dinner and a bottle of wine
Of course it was wrong

Needs a soundtrack of violins and a cut to a close up shot of tear trickling down a rosy cheek.

limnam

cnocbui wrote: »

Needs a soundtrack of violins and a cut to a close up shot of tear trickling down a rosy cheek.

I'm sure if the mccanns were not responsible.


Their recklessness has caused many to be shed.


But feel free to make light of the seriousness of the situation.

Plumbthedepths

cnocbui wrote:

He's just a politician saying things to make him and his country look good. The key point is they didn't.

The reasons why they didn't was explained. His position as a politician is irrelevant. Senior police officers stated the same.

cnocbui wrote:

Portugal is a country with a legal system that lets a man abduct a teenager, rape her several times, admit to doing so in court and walk out of the court laughing, literally. He was told not to do it again, so I suppose that's something.

Whataboutery.

cnocbui wrote:

Personally I wouldn't be holding up a Portuguese politician tolerant of such a legal system as someone having a gravitas of commendable moral authority and high ethics.

Relates again to whataboutery on your behalf.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

Needs a soundtrack of violins and a cut to a close up shot of tear trickling down a rosy cheek.

Great contribution

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

I thought we were all well past the fact that what they did was neglectful.


It has normally been the one thing the vast majority agreed on here.


I think most normal balanced folk will admit leaving 3 young kids of that age alone in an unlocked apartment in a foriegn country is wreckless.


*shrug*

Welll there you are again slinging the insults around personalizing the whole thing.

limnam

splinter65 wrote: »

Welll there you are again slinging the insults around personalizing the whole thing.

Oh yes calling parents who don't leave their kids alone to go eating and drinking normal and balanced.


Horrific.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

splinter65 wrote: »

You can’t accuse someone who doesn’t agree with you of being a bad parent or being stupid. It is merely your opinion that leaving the children in their bedrooms to be checked on every half hour was neglect. Just your opinion. It doesn’t make you right and it doesn’t make you a good parent, or bright for that matter.

You certainly can call parents who leave three kids in an unlocked apartment open to a public road , not seen from where they sat poor parents .
You simplify it by saying " in their bedrooms " as if they were simply in the next room . They weren't , between them and their children was a pool , a path , bushes and a verandah . The kids were left alone in an unlocked apartment its that simple . Poor parenting , selfish parenting and high risk taking .
A child was taken from her bed without them even noticing which just shows the high risk they ignored

limnam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

You certainly can call parents who leave three kids in an unlocked apartment open to a public road , not seen from where they sat poor parents .
You simplify it by saying " in their bedrooms " as if they were simply in the next room . They weren't , between them and their children was a pool , a path , bushes and a verandah . The kids were left alone in an unlocked apartment its that simple . Poor parenting , selfish parenting and high risk taking .
A child was taken from her bed without them even noticing which just shows the high risk they ignored

You can't call them bad parents. They've suffered enough.

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Oh yes calling parents who don't leave their kids alone to go eating and drinking normal and balanced.


Horrific.

No that’s not what you said. You said that people who don’t agree with you aren’t normal or balanced and that they’re stupid. There’s a world of difference.

limnam

splinter65 wrote: »

No that’s not what you said. You said that people who don’t agree with you aren’t normal or balanced and that they’re stupid. There’s a world of difference.

Nope, here's what was wrote.


"I think most normal balanced folk will admit leaving 3 young kids of that age alone in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country is reckless."


Let me know if you need anything else cleared up

Plumbthedepths

How difficult is it to read what someone posted and to quote same, instead of making up stuff?

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

splinter65 wrote: »

No that’s not what you said. You said that people who don’t agree with you aren’t normal or balanced and that they’re stupid. There’s a world of difference.

No that is not what was said . Read it again

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Nope, here's what was wrote.


"I think most normal balanced folk will admit leaving 3 young kids of that age alone in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country is reckless."


Let me know if you need anything else cleared up

I think most normal balanced folk will admit leaving 3 young kids of that age alone in an unlocked apartment in a foriegn country is wreckless.

So if you don’t agree that what the McCanns and other friends were doing was wreckless then your abnormal and unbalanced.
Are you genuinely not seeing it or just pretending not to?

splinter65

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

No that is not what was said . Read it again

I’ve just read it again.
Here it is

I think most normal balanced folk will admit leaving 3 young kids of that age alone in an unlocked apartment in a foriegn country is wreckless.

So if you don’t agree that what the McCanns and other friends were doing was wreckless then your abnormal and unbalanced.
Are you genuinely not seeing it or just pretending not to?

limnam

splinter65 wrote: »

I’ve just read it again.
Here it is

I think most normal balanced folk will admit leaving 3 young kids of that age alone in an unlocked apartment in a foriegn country is wreckless.

So if you don’t agree that what the McCanns and other friends were doing was wreckless then your abnormal and unbalanced.
Are you genuinely not seeing it or just pretending not to?

All you're seeing is the words you're trying to put into my posts.

limnam

splinter65 wrote: »

I

So if you don’t agree that what the McCanns and other friends were doing was wreckless then your abnormal and unbalanced.

Gerry McCann doesn't agree with what he was doing????


He said it was a mistake and would never do it again. Do you think he thinks like that because it was a great idea?

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

splinter65 wrote: »

I’ve just read it again.
Here it is

I think most normal balanced folk will admit leaving 3 young kids of that age alone in an unlocked apartment in a foriegn country is wreckless.

So if you don’t agree that what the McCanns and other friends were doing was wreckless then your abnormal and unbalanced.
Are you genuinely not seeing it or just pretending not to?

Most normal balanced parents would not dream of leaving their children in the situation the Mc Cann left theirs . Thats it in a nutshell . If you feel it would be right to leave your toddlers alone in an unlocked apartment away from earshot or eyesight then Yes I would be questioning your parenting skills .

I am astonished that anyone would even admit to thinking it was within the realms of responsible parenting