Madeleine McCann

ozzy jr

Something Else

Didn't Kate wash the curtains in the apartment?

Why would anyone do that when they were on holiday :rolleyes:

Deusexmachina

gerrybbadd wrote: »

The parents definitely know something. Why would Kate refuse to answer ANY questions that would help in the investigation?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1041635/The-48-questions-Kate-McCann-wouldnt-answer--did.html

Great video here of body language analysis from a Ted talk, spliced with McCann interviews. Obvious tells here. They're lying

What do you think happened?

tretorn

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Its not even the randomness of someone kidnapping the children, its also keeping your children safe.

What if the three year old had left and got into the swimming pool, what if she wandered out onto the road carrying one of the smaller ones in her arms.

It was just such a risky thing to do.

Spanish Eyes

The other parents in the group at least had baby monitors which they brought to the restaurant. McCanns did not.

It is some mystery alright.

gerrybbadd

Something Else

Deusexmachina wrote: »

What do you think happened?

I genuinely have no idea. I do think the kids were sedated. I think however, there may have been an accident leading to Maddie's death, a fall or something along those lines.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gerrybbadd wrote: »

The parents definitely know something. Why would Kate refuse to answer ANY questions that would help in the investigation?

Completely incorrect, Kate & Gerry were both extensively questioned on a voluntary basis at the beginning of the investigation.
After they were made "Arguido's" aka official suspects, they were then brought in for questioning again. Their legal adviser advised them not to answer any futher questions at this point.
They were asked the exact same questions as they were asked when there voluntarily. They had already answered all those questions previous to being made arguidos.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I didn't suggest that you are. I am asking you if you think the loss of their little girl is punishment enough for the negligence?
Is it really fair for people to keep castigating them? "Shame on them"

I think it very fair for people to have an opinion Yes

jimwallace197

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gerrybbadd wrote: »

The parents definitely know something. Why would Kate refuse to answer ANY questions that would help in the investigation?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1041635/The-48-questions-Kate-McCann-wouldnt-answer--did.html

Great video here of body language analysis from a Ted talk, spliced with McCann interviews. Obvious tells here. They're lying

There is a lot of reasons why they may not have answered questions in the police investigation that doesnt make them guilty. How often have we seen detectives manipulate an interrogation to paint a narrative that they have chosen to believe themselves.

In this day and age, I would be very careful in answering any questions the police may ask me in a a situation like this without a solicitor present. The gards/police are not always there to discover the truth, they are there to build a case thay they believe will hold up in court

optimist16

Personally I'm not interested in conspiracy theories. None of us know what happened. I read the evidence with an open mind although I fully expected to believe the McCanns. I don't wish to think ill of anyone and I'm not capable of making it up. There's lots of links here to evidence (not conspiracy theories) that is thoroughly shocking. There is simply too much to cover. Instead of the continuous shaming of those that simply cannot deny the evidence, please read it and then tell us we're wrong. I can't see there's a conclusion to be drawn but I think everyone should know the facts.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

optimist16 wrote: »

Personally I'm not interested in conspiracy theories. None of us know what happened. I read the evidence with an open mind although I fully expected to believe the McCanns. I don't wish to think ill of anyone and I'm not capable of making it up. There's lots of links here to evidence (not conspiracy theories) that is thoroughly shocking. There is simply too much to cover. Instead of the continuous shaming of those that simply cannot deny the evidence, please read it and then tell us we're wrong. I can't see there's a conclusion to be drawn but I think everyone should know the facts.

I've studied and followed this case extensively for at least 8 years. I still do not believe the parents had any involvement.
I don't believe them to be guilty of anything apart from making a terrible mistake, which they will suffer for for the rest of their lives.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I let my daughter climb trees - sorry, my bad.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SusieBlue wrote: »

I've studied and followed this case extensively for at least 8 years. I still do not believe the parents had any involvement.
I don't believe them to be guilty of anything apart from making a terrible mistake, which they will suffer for for the rest of their lives.

Personally I think someone knew of the pattern of leaving the kids and either took the opportunity or passed on information . The Mc Canns was the easiest apartment to access and watch from apartments behind it .
Unfortunately it would have been made very easy for someone to take a child once they figured out the pattern . The kids were left in a vulnerable risky situation

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

I let my daughter climb trees - sorry, my bad.

Do you leave her in bed in a house and go out to dinner ? Then that is the comparison that is relevant to this case ?

nc6000

The parents did it

tretorn wrote: »

This was supposed to be a family holiday, ie spending time with your children, not getting them to bed early so they could be left alone. Why didnt they just leave the children at home if they wanted to socialise every night without their three under threes.

Don't forget that the kids were in a creche\daycare facility onsite each day while the parents were doing activities like tennis lessons etc. It's not like they had had them all day before they went out each evening.

Dog Man Star

jimwallace197 wrote: »

The investigation was haphazard at best and really showed the ineptitude of the portugese police who in fairness wouldnt have come across many cases like this.

None of that is true. That is exactly what the McCann's projected to the world. It is a very common tactic in cover-ups like this.

The McCanns contacted PR guru Clarence Mitchell, who put this notion out immediately via the press, followed by smearing Rober Murat, an initial suspect, who was cleared soon after.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/18/ukcrime.marketingandpr

tretorn

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I did note that.

It didnt sound like much of a family holiday to me.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Personally I think someone knew of the pattern of leaving the kids and either took the opportunity or passed on information . The Mc Canns was the easiest apartment to access and watch from apartments behind it .
Unfortunately it would have been made very easy for someone to take a child once they figured out the pattern . The kids were left in a vulnerable risky situation

This is exactly what I think happened too.

Dog Man Star

The Portugese police summarised the events like this:

Madeline awoke during the night (as per previous night)
Walked into the living room and possibly fell from the sofa onto the tiled floor (sniffer dog indicated blood behind the sofa), possibly while Gerry was talking to his tennis friend just outside the house.
Gerry discovered Madeline already dead, carried Madeline down to the beach (witnessed by Smith family members)
Informed Kate who went to house and sounded alarm. "They've taken her" was the first thing she said as she ran to the Tapas bar, leaving twins asleep alone in apartment.

Kate and Gerry's phone texts and calls deleted during this period of the night.

At some point after hiring the car, Gerry retrieved the body and drove to final resting place (sniffer dog indicated cadaver in boot of car).

When this happened is the most dubious point, but they were not watched 24/7 and their phones were not tapped, enforced by UK lawmakers and against the Portugese police wishes. They went jogging together most days, which suggests time together to plan.

Just to add, I think what has happened to them is punishment enough and I believe the police feel the same.

Their constant exposure in the media is to continue to avoid suspicion, though this is fading over time as expected. Again, this has happened in many cover-ups in the past, even on the Late Late Show and it not in any way unusual.

Two mortgage payments were made from the fund while they were in Portugal, they did not personally profit from the fund nor the books as far as I know and both have returned to work.

Keyzer

Dog Man Star wrote: »

The Portugese police summarised the events like this:

Madeline awoke during the night (as per previous night)
Walked into the living room and possibly fell from the sofa onto the tiled floor (sniffer dog indicated blood behind the sofa), possibly while Gerry was talking to his tennis friend just outside the house.
Gerry discovered Madeline already dead, carried Madeline down to the beach (witnessed by Smith family members)
Informed Kate who went to house and sounded alarm. "They've taken her" was the first thing she said as she ran to the Tapas bar, leaving twins asleep alone in apartment.

Kate and Gerry's phone texts and calls deleted during this period of the night.

At some point after hiring the car, Gerry retrieved the body and drove to final resting place (sniffer dog indicated cadaver in boot of car).

When this happened is the most dubious point, but they were not watched 24/7 and their phones were not tapped, enforced by UK lawmakers and against the Portugese police wishes. They went jogging together most days, which suggests time together to plan.

If thats true, Inspector Clouesau must be running the Portugeuse police force.

Steve F

Dog Man Star wrote: »

The Portugese police summarised the events like this:

Madeline awoke during the night (as per previous night)
Walked into the living room and possibly fell from the sofa onto the tiled floor (sniffer dog indicated blood behind the sofa), possibly while Gerry was talking to his tennis friend just outside the house.
Gerry discovered Madeline already dead, carried Madeline down to the beach (witnessed by Smith family members)
Informed Kate who went to house and sounded alarm. "They've taken her" was the first thing she said as she ran to the Tapas bar, leaving twins asleep alone in apartment.

Kate and Gerry's phone texts and calls deleted during this period of the night.

At some point after hiring the car, Gerry retrieved the body and drove to final resting place (sniffer dog indicated cadaver in boot of car).

When this happened is the most dubious point, but they were not watched 24/7 and their phones were not tapped, enforced by UK lawmakers and against the Portugese police wishes. They went jogging together most days, which suggests time together to plan.

Just to add, I think what has happened to them is punishment enough and I believe the police feel the same.

They're constant exposure in the media is to continue to avoid suspicion, though this is fading over time as expected. Again, this has happened in many cover-ups in the past, even on the Late Late Show and it not in any way unusual.

Two mortgage payments were made from the fund while they were in Portugal, they did not personally profit from the fund nor the books as far as I know and both have returned to work.

Do they think other members of the party knew this?

Deusexmachina

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I think it very fair for people to have an opinion Yes

Having an opinion is different to expressing that opinion on a Public Forum. (The internet is full of people hating the Mc Canns and producing 'evidence' that they killed their own little girl and magically smuggled out her body and buried her without anyone noticing.)

As a parent, I would be very slow to point the finger at other parents and accuse them of murdering (or accidently killing and disposing of) their own child.

Surely we should only ever do that if we have irrefutable and fully accepted evidence delivered in a Court. Otherwise it is just total speculation and adding to the agony of that poor family.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

The Portugese police summarised the events like this:

Madeline awoke during the night (as per previous night)
Walked into the living room and possibly fell from the sofa onto the tiled floor (sniffer dog indicated blood behind the sofa), possibly while Gerry was talking to his tennis friend just outside the house.
Gerry discovered Madeline already dead, carried Madeline down to the beach (witnessed by Smith family members)
Informed Kate who went to house and sounded alarm. "They've taken her" was the first thing she said as she ran to the Tapas bar, leaving twins asleep alone in apartment.

Kate and Gerry's phone texts and calls deleted during this period of the night.

At some point after hiring the car, Gerry retrieved the body and drove to final resting place (sniffer dog indicated cadaver in boot of car).

When this happened is the most dubious point, but they were not watched 24/7 and their phones were not tapped, enforced by UK lawmakers and against the Portugese police wishes. They went jogging together most days, which suggests time together to plan.

They were in an unfamiliar location, in a high state of stress, fear and anxiety.

Where on earth could they have disposed of the body to say it still hasn't been found, despite heavy media scrutiny and extensive searching?

I don't find it remotely plausible that they were able to come up with that plan and execute it so seamlessly on a spur of the moment decision upon finding their daughter fatally injured.
Not only that, but that they stuck to their story, and neither one of them has cracked since.

I might find your theory possible, if you were suggesting this was all a pre-planned affair, thought up by Kate & Gerry, even before they left the UK.
That they planned to intentionally neglect their children to the point of causing a fatal accident, and they had thought up a plan to get rid of the body for if that scenario happened.
I mean, its still far fetched, but it would explain how they were able to so thoroughly dispose of the body without being caught while in a state of hysteria.
Otherwise your theory makes no sense.

Dog Man Star

Steve F wrote: »

Do they think other members of the party knew this?

No they don't. There was a few changing stories, but they put this down to those having unattended children too. There is no evidence of the group knowing.

The Portugese police reports, witness statements and almost everything else is online. They are hiding nothing. It is all there for you to read.

Kingp35

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Surely we should only ever do that if we have irrefutable and fully accepted evidence delivered in a Court. Otherwise it is just total speculation and adding to the agony of that poor family.

Unfortunately the case is unsolved so literally everything is speculation. This is a discussion forum and as such various "theories" will be put forward if a case is unsolved. The mods will deal with anything that we believe to be stepping over the line.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Having an opinion is different to expressing that opinion on a Public Forum. (The internet is full of people hating the Mc Canns and producing 'evidence' that they killed their own little girl and magically smuggled out her body and buried her without anyone noticing.)

As a parent, I would be very slow to point the finger at other parents and accuse them of murdering (or accidently killing and disposing of) their own child.

Surely we should only ever do that if we have irrefutable and fully accepted evidence delivered in a Court. Otherwise it is just total speculation and adding to the agony of that poor family.

Read my posts then . Not once did I accuse the Mc Canns of anything other than neglect . Not even they could deny that.

Dog Man Star

SusieBlue wrote: »

They were in an unfamiliar location, in a high state of stress, fear and anxiety.

Not unfamiliar, they had been there many times.

SusieBlue wrote: »

Where on earth could they have disposed of the body to say it still hasn't been found, despite heavy media scrutiny and extensive searching?

There are hundreds of thousands of missing people all over the world.

SusieBlue wrote: »

I don't find it remotely plausible that they were able to come up with that plan and execute it so seamlessly on a spur of the moment decision upon finding their daughter fatally injured.
Not only that, but that they stuck to their story, and neither one of them has cracked since.

They have too much to lose to crack. They have changed their story, particularly on opened doors and curtains blowing. See Police reports, all available here: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk.

The more you read, the less you will believe their story.

But like I said, it's a tragic accident. Time to leave it to rest now.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Not unfamiliar, they had been there many times.

I hadn't seen any evidence that they had stayed in that apartment "many times" before, but I'm open to correction. Its irrelevant anyway. They didn't have local knowledge. They were on holidays.
They were not in a position to know where to dump a body.

There are hundreds of thousands of missing people all over the world.

But very, very few in such peculiar circumstances as Madeleine McCann.

They have to much to lose to crack. They have changed their story, particularly on opened doors and curtains blowing. See Police reports, all available here: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk.

The more you read, the less you will believe their story.

And they have so much more to lose by continuing to push the case in the media spotlight for the last decade, they could be found out at any minute & their "secret" discovered.
Yet they keep pushing for awareness & recognition.
They have garnered so much attention, funding & media coverage that at this point if they're found out, they'd be better off dead themselves because the public would have them for dinner.
Why would they still be publicizing this case, when they have a HUGE secret to hide?
It makes no sense.

But like I said, it's a tragic accident. Time to leave it to rest now.

That remains unproven. This is a discussion forum, we are discussing the case, no need to backseat mod by suggesting we stop talking about it.

Dog Man Star

SusieBlue wrote: »

I hadn't seen any evidence that they had stayed in that apartment "many times" before, but I'm open to correction. Its irrelevant anyway. They didn't have local knowledge. They were on holidays.
They were not in a position to know where to dump a body.



But very, very few in such peculiar circumstances as Madeleine McCann.



And they have so much more to lose by continuing to push the case in the media spotlight for the last decade, they could be found out at any minute & their "secret" discovered.
Yet they keep pushing for awareness & recognition.
They have garnered so much attention, funding & media coverage that at this point if they're found out, they'd be better off dead themselves because the public would have them for dinner.
Why would they still be publicizing this case, when they have a HUGE secret to hide?
It makes no sense.


That remains unproven. This is a discussion forum, we are discussing the case, no need to backseat mod by suggesting we stop talking about it.

To discuss the case, you need the details. Read the police files. All your questions will be answered there.

Pete Moss

Were the McCanns the only members of their party to leave their door unlocked? I've listened to a couple of podcasts on this case. They all mention the rotating schedule the 'Tapas 9' had for checking on each other's children throughout the evening. One podcast mentions the McCanns to be the only one of the group to leave a door unlocked. I found that odd, especially given if someone was checking on the kids from the other 3 families, they'd require a key to their respective apartments.

It was probably cleared up in 2007, but was there any cctv footage realised by the hotel at all? Or from around the surrounding area?

Also, can someone more familiar with the case confirm what Kate McCann said to Gerry when she returned to the restaurant (without her other 2 kids) having discovered Madeline was missing? One podcast stated she said "we've let her down". Whilst others state she said "they've taken her".

I'm certainly far from an expert in the ins and outs of this case, but her reaction to the discovery her child was missing is quite bizarre. I may be wrong, but my understanding is when she discovered her child was missing, she was quite calm and walked to the restaurant to inform the others, whilst leaving the twins alone. Normally I'd imagine a parent to be quite hysterical in such circumstances - I don't mean to generalise, she might have ice in her veins and keep a calm head, but it seems a strange reaction under the circumstances.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

To discuss the case, you need the details. Read the police files. All your questions will be answered there.

Don't be so patronising, I've read them, that has what lead me to form my opinions.
My opinion being different to yours does not make it incorrect.
This is an unsolved case, your theory is not more pertinent than mine, just because you say so.