Madeleine McCann

Deusexmachina

Salvatore Cool BubbleMGS wrote: »

No. They have retained custody of their other children despite mindless neglect of all of them. They have not been punished nearly enough.

That’s disgusting.

Alrigghtythen

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/10/15/1381827336041/Efit-images-of-man-police-009.jpg?width=300&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&

goat2

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

No, the other apartments were unlocked too, with the usual sliding doors.

Also, the McCanns both claimed that the alleged abductor left through the bedroom window with Madeline in his arms, which they claim was opened when they got to the apartment. Upon investigation, the Portugese police discounted their theory as to be too implausible.

The window sill was covered in lichen (similar to moss) which was totally undisturbed.

The bar staff questioned their regular checks. At least one recalled not seeing anyone leaving the bar to check on the children.

The night before Kate McCann stated that both Madeline and one of the twins were crying for some time (also verified by a neighbour) and no one attended to them.

My opinion: the routine checks are highly dubious. Why bother not hiring a babysitter, if regular checks are needed anyway? They weren't short of cash, they could've paid the available babysitter to check on the children.

Was the bar that quiet that night , I have worked in bars, and could not tell you the movement of any customer in the bar, that does not sound right, since there was a big number of people at the table, one would not miss one absentee at a time.
Children do cry in the middle nof the night, and most likely those boys were teething at that time, one starts crying and wake up the rest so, you are bound to have a lot of noise coming from a home with 3 under 3 yrs old

goat2

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

ozzy jr wrote: »

Didn't Kate wash the curtains in the apartment?

Why would anyone do that when they were on holiday :rolleyes:

Did she say that she washed the curtains

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

goat2 wrote: »

Was the bar that quiet that night , I have worked in bars, and could not tell you the movement of any customer in the bar, that does not sound right, since there was a big number of people at the table, one would not miss one absentee at a time.
Children do cry in the middle nof the night, and most likely those boys were teething at that time, one starts crying and wake up the rest so, you are bound to have a lot of noise coming from a home with 3 under 3 yrs old

It wasn't in the middle of the night that the kids were heard crying by an upstairs neighbour . She heard a young child crying at 10:30 and it lasted for an hour until she heard the patio door open and someone enter . She heard a child call
" daddy , daddy " loudly and felt it was an older child and not a baby

.

Steve F

goat2 wrote: »

Did she say that she washed the curtains

I heard she washed "cuddle Cat" but I never heard about Curtains
If that is true then that IS suspicious :eek:

ozzy jr

Something Else

Blood on the curtains

Later at the Ocean Club, the use of the dogs ended up triggering a turnaround in the investigation.

As Sol could discover, the dogs detected cadaver odour behind a couch in the apartment’s living room, close to a window that leads to the resort’s back area.

This window had curtains that were removed and analysed by police, and a small blood sample was detected. Both the curtains and the wall where it was located at, had been washed.

Taken from here.....

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html

I've no idea how reliable that site is, there's been so much spoken about this case over the years, it can be hard to remember what's fact and what's fiction.

MonkieSocks

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

ozzy jr wrote: »

Taken from here.....

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html

I've no idea how reliable that site is, there's been so much spoken about this case over the years, it can be hard to remember what's fact and what's fiction.

Blogs Totally unreliable


Have a read here ozzy, offical released police files,


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/sitemap.htm

Dog Man Star

iamwhoiam wrote: »

As far as I am aware they were not in Pda L prior to 2007 in May

Yes this is correct. I am totally wrong about this, my apologies. I was certain they had visited this resort many times through their use of the tennis court and daycare facilities, but it was not this specific resort in Praia da Luz, nor Portugal in fact.

I was totally wrong, sorry.

Dog Man Star

Steve F wrote: »

I heard she washed "cuddle Cat" but I never heard about Curtains
If that is true then that IS suspicious :eek:

No, there was no curtains washed.

The 'cuddle cat' toy was washed, Kate McCann said it was covered in sunscreen.

My opinion: I brought my children's pyjamas in my suitcase on a long trip away so I could feel close to them. Weird right? I couldn't imagine ever doing what Kate McCann did if my child went missing and I consider this very strange and suspicious. But, this is not evidence just behaviour.

goat2

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I don't believe much of what people are accusing the parents of on here or any other internet site nor blogs,
and still don't think the parents did any harm to their little girl, all pictures of her that we have seen, show a well loved and cared for child,

ozzy jr

Something Else

goat2 wrote: »

I don't believe much of what people are accusing the parents of on here or any other internet site nor blogs,
and still don't think the parents did any harm to their little girl, all pictures of her that we have seen, show a well loved and cared for child,

How can you say she was well cared for?

If she was well cared for she wouldn't be missing now. Yeah it might have been the first time she was left alone, but that's all it took. Poor girl.

Charmeleon

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Dog Trainer Martin Grime's Rogatory Statement

Quote:




____________________________

Forensic Report by John Robert Lowe, 18 June 2008

Quote:

OUTROS APENSOS I, volume IIPages 300 to 326Witness Deposition (Criminal Procedure Rules, r27.1 (1); Criminal Justice Act 1967, s.9; Magistrates' Courts Act 1980, s.5B)Deposition of: JOHN ROBERT LOWE BSc CBiol MlBiol RFP Age: Older than 18Profession of Witness: Forensic ScientistAddress of Witness: Forensic Science Service Ltd., Birmingham Laboratory, Priory House, Gooch Street North, Birmingham, B5 6QQWith respect to: References FSS: 300 655 190 / 400 947 125 References Client: 07/06085, 201/07.0GALGS CJS URN:ConclusionIn my opinion, the laboratory results that were attained did not help to clarify whether or not the DNA results obtained within the scope of this case were from Madeleine McCann.

Not really related to the point I was making, which was the misconception that the ‘bungling’ Portuguese police were just fantasists. The thrust of the UK police investigation was aimed directly at the parents.

From the leaked memo:

“

---

5. (C) Madeleine McCann's disappearance in the south of
Portugal in May 2007 has generated international media
attention with controversy surrounding the Portuguese-led
police investigation and the actions of Madeleine's parents.
Without delving into the details of the case, Ellis admitted
that the British police had developed the current evidence
against the McCann parents, and he stressed that authorities
from both countries were working cooperatively. He commented
that the media frenzy was to be expected and was acceptable
as long as government officials keep their comments behind
closed doors.”


As for the dogs, fine, they may alert for old blood but that begs the question as to why they indicated blood or human remains behind the sofa in the apartment, the wardrobe, their hire car, on ‘cuddle cat’, on Kate’s clothes and so on but not at any other locations unconnected to the case. That’s really, really hard to explain isn’t it?

zoe 3619

The parents behaviour is jaw droppingly unbeliveable.Nobody would leave kids of that age unminded night after night.Something very wrong there and I do think they're hiding something.
Having said that,as strangers to the area,I don't think they could have disposed of a body so effectively that 10 years of searching would not have found it.

feargale

Salvatore Cool BubbleMGS wrote: »

No. They have retained custody of their other children despite mindless neglect of all of them. They have not been punished nearly enough.

That is a disgustingly despicable, heartless post, hardly worthy even of the rags that turned on the McCanns when they were not obliging them with copy and savaged them in a vengeful way. It would be unduly kind to call it judgemental. Who are you to set yourself up as judge and jury in this case? Have you had access to the reams that have been written about it, police reports etc. etc.? Even if we were to accept that the parents were negligent, you think they deserve more loss and suffering than they have had to endure? For your information, children's care orders are made to protect children, not to punish parents.

tinpib

Something Else

Just spotted this thread, haven't read it so apologies if posted before.

I'm as obsessed about this case as any sane person ought to be and I have found the Richard Hall documentaries on YouTube to be fascinating.

He seems to be a conspiracy nut, but he has hours and hours of his own docs on Madeline McCann that I don't think are conspiratorial at all, 14 hours in total.

He just pours over all the evidence that is available and points out inconsistencies. Huge, huge numbers of inconsistencies.

I would describe it as he is asking the questions any decent lawyers would be asking the McCanns and other witnesses if it ever went to trial.

Fascinating stuff.

Probably best to start here

Deusexmachina

zoe 3619 wrote: »

The parents behaviour is jaw droppingly unbeliveable.Nobody would leave kids of that age unminded night after night.Something very wrong there and I do think they're hiding something.
Having said that,as strangers to the area,I don't think they could have disposed of a body so effectively that 10 years of searching would not have found it.

I think this is the core issue on every thread about this case. Yes, the parents were wrong to leave their children unattended.
But that does not mean they are ‘hiding something’. It just means that all the parents in that group were very wrong to think they could safely leave their children in the apartments while checking in on them regularly. That’s not good enough.
But the jump from there to accusing them of killing their little girl and then secretly dumping her body while surrounded by the police and the worlds media is ridiculous and stupid.

Deusexmachina

tinpib wrote: »

Just spotted this thread, haven't read it so apologies if posted before.

I'm as obsessed about this case as any sane person ought to be and I have found the Richard Hall documentaries on YouTube to be fascinating.

He seems to be a conspiracy nut, but he has hours and hours of his own docs on Madeline McCann that I don't think are conspiratorial at all, 14 hours in total.

He just pours over all the evidence that is available and points out inconsistencies. Huge, huge numbers of inconsistencies.

I would describe it as he is asking the questions any decent lawyers would be asking the McCanns and other witnesses if it ever went to trial.

Fascinating stuff.

Probably best to start here

The problem with all these eejits is that it is really easy to find many inconsistencies in all ‘official versions’ of any story. That’s why you have hundreds of websites spouting utter crap about the moon landings never happening, the 9/11 cia plot, the murder of JFK by the mafia or the Government, UFOs and aliens in Roswell, Elvis still alive, the Illuminati secretly ruling the world...etc.

The problem with all of them is that they cannot come up with a reasonable explanation themselves that does not complete collapse under the most basic scrutiny.

My issue with these muppets is the the Mc Canns are parents who have lost their child in the most tragic circumstances. This isn’t a soap opera or Sherlock Holmes. These are real people who have suffered immeasurable loss and pain. Yet these people continue to taunt them with their nonsense.

Shop40

The cadaver dogs answered the mystery of Madeleine years ago. She died in the apartment. They also picked up the scent of death in the McCann’s car. The McCanns have no faith in highly trained police dogs though.

I always wondered why the parents didn’t look for Madeleine when she went missing? If my little daughter went missing, I would be desperately searching. I know that without ever being in their situation.

I remember reading an article about an Italian couple (I think also both doctors) who were friends of the McCann’s for a while before the disappearance. They went on holiday with the McCanns and others.In evidence they gave to police, the woman was so unnerved by how Gerry treated his daughter, (making sexual innuendo about her to another male), that she warned her husband not to leave their baby alone with him.

Shop40

proudboy wrote: »

To come out and say she was murdered is a bit of a stretch. She was dead in the apartment but i wouldn't say murdered.

I edited that when I saw it. Had only woken up.

tinpib

Something Else

Deusexmachina wrote: »

The problem with all these eejits is that it is really easy to find many inconsistencies in all ‘official versions’ of any story. That’s why you have hundreds of websites spouting utter crap about the moon landings never happening, the 9/11 cia plot, the murder of JFK by the mafia or the Government, UFOs and aliens in Roswell, Elvis still alive, the Illuminati secretly ruling the world...etc.

The problem with all of them is that they cannot come up with a reasonable explanation themselves that does not complete collapse under the most basic scrutiny.

My issue with these muppets is the the Mc Canns are parents who have lost their child in the most tragic circumstances. This isn’t a soap opera or Sherlock Holmes. These are real people who have suffered immeasurable loss and pain. Yet these people continue to taunt them with their nonsense.

It appears to me like you have posted this without watching any of his videos. Saying "eejits" and he has not "come up with a reasonable explanation themselves that does not complete collapse under the most basic scrutiny."

There are 14 hours of videos there, I watched maybe 8 hours of videos well over a year ago. I started watching a recent 3 part 90 minute set where he sets out what he thinks happened to her based on the evidence available.

I find it interesting that you dismiss him without watching them. That doesn't seem like an open-minded rational thing to do.

There are inconsistencies and then there are the sheer volume of inconsistencies in stories here which leads me to only one thing. What witnessses said happened did not happen.

As I say it was over a year ago but my lightbulb moment was when he examined the account of the last independent witness to see Madeleine alive.

This is from memory, he called round to their apartment at 8pm on the night it was claimed she was kidnapped and saw her there with Kate.

One account[either Kate or yer man] was that he remained outside the apartment door and had a quick chat for about 30 seconds, the other account was that he came inside and sat down on the couch and chatted for 5 minutes.

That type of inconsistency points to only one thing to me, it never happened, and they are coming up with a cock and bull story to police.

That's just from memory, watch the 14 hours of videos and make up your own mind before dismissing him.

He seems to have exhaustively researched everything.

tinpib

Something Else

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I think this is the core issue on every thread about this case. Yes, the parents were wrong to leave their children unattended.
But that does not mean they are ‘hiding something’. It just means that all the parents in that group were very wrong to think they could safely leave their children in the apartments while checking in on them regularly. That’s not good enough.
But the jump from there to accusing them of killing their little girl and then secretly dumping her body while surrounded by the police and the worlds media is ridiculous and stupid.

Just read this now, again the Richard Hall docs he believes Madeline died on Saturday April 28th as this is the last photo there is of her. I posted above that I believe the last sighting of Madeleine by an independent witness on Thursday May 3rd is a cock and bull story.

So they had a few days to plan and dispose of her body.

As I say, check out his videos and make up your own mind.

The Portuguese police named the parents as suspects, when you examine the evidence available that the police had like Richard Hall has you would have them as suspects too.

judeboy101

Something Else

Shop40 wrote: »

The cadaver dogs answered the mystery of Madeleine years ago. She died in the apartment. They also picked up the scent of death in the McCann’s car. The McCanns have no faith in highly trained police dogs though.

I always wondered why the parents didn’t look for Madeleine when she went missing? If my little daughter went missing, I would be desperately searching. I know that without ever being in their situation.

I remember reading an article about an Italian couple (I think also both doctors) who were friends of the McCann’s for a while before the disappearance. They went on holiday with the McCanns and others.In evidence they gave to police, the woman was so unnerved by how Gerry treated his daughter, (making sexual innuendo about her to another male), that she warned her husband not to leave their baby alone with him.

It's been well established that dogs used for their "smell" abilities are not reliable. Drug dogs give many many false positives for instance. They pick up on subtle changes in handlers behaviour as often as they pick up a scent. Cadaver dogs no different.

tinpib

Something Else

judeboy101 wrote: »

It's been well established that dogs used for their "smell" abilities are not reliable. Drug dogs give many many false positives for instance. They pick up on subtle changes in handlers behaviour as often as they pick up a scent. Cadaver dogs no different.

Maybe they do, what are the percentages?

11 positive responses, not 1, [I think it's 11, it's in the Richard Hall docs] in an apartment, car etc where a child has gone missing leads me to believe there was a body.

judeboy101

Something Else

tinpib wrote: »

Maybe they do, what are the percentages?

11 positive responses, not 1, [I think it's 11, it's in the Richard Hall docs] in an apartment, car etc where a child has gone missing leads me to believe there was a body.

Can't find anything on cadaver dogs but US courts have ruled drugs dogs no better than a coin toss

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-court-drug-dog-thats-barely-more-accurate-than-a-coin-flip-is-good-enough/?noredirect=on

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

tinpib wrote: »

Just read this now, again the Richard Hall docs he believes Madeline died on Saturday April 28th as this is the last photo there is of her. I posted above that I believe the last sighting of Madeleine by an independent witness on Thursday May 3rd is a cock and bull story.

So they had a few days to plan and dispose of her body.

As I say, check out his videos and make up your own mind.

The Portuguese police named the parents as suspects, when you examine the evidence available that the police had like Richard Hall has you would have them as suspects too.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA_WILDING.htm


There are police interviews with creche staff and had seen Madeleine on May 3 rd in the creche . Do you honestly think they are all confused or lying or covering something up ? Why would they ?




What is notable in the interviews is how often and for how long the children were in the creche . And that a free babysitting service was offered from 19:30 until 23:30 and never used by the Mc Canns .
For some inexplicable reason they thought it better to leave three very young children alone rather than bed them down under supervision and care and lift them home when they themselves went home .
I would be very critical of many decisions made with the children on that holday and very critical about their poor parenting . But it still doesn't lead me to thinking they harmed Madeleine .

ozzy jr

Something Else

judeboy101 wrote: »

Can't find anything on cadaver dogs but US courts have ruled drugs dogs no better than a coin toss

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-court-drug-dog-thats-barely-more-accurate-than-a-coin-flip-is-good-enough/?noredirect=on

95% reliable

https://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/expert_well-trained_cadaver_dogs_95_percent_accurate_can_smell_remains_15_feet_d.html

judeboy101

Something Else

ozzy jr wrote: »

95% reliable

https://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/expert_well-trained_cadaver_dogs_95_percent_accurate_can_smell_remains_15_feet_d.html

"said Sharon, a cadaver police dog trainer"

Not exactly unbiased

ozzy jr

Something Else

judeboy101 wrote: »

"said Sharon, a cadaver police dog trainer"

Not exactly unbiased

Either is your ability to "not be able to find anything on cadavar dogs".

You know how to search on the internet don't you? There's plenty of information out there on the the pros and cons of cadavar dogs.

judeboy101

Something Else

ozzy jr wrote: »

Either is your ability to "not be able to find anything on cadavar dogs".

You know how to search on the internet don't you? There's plenty of information out there on the the pros and cons of cadavar dogs.

Is there, more like sharon?