Madeleine McCann

weldoninhio

Something Else

cursai wrote: »

Car was rented weeks after she went missing. Either stinky body transport or car has ability to time travel.

Cadaver could have been rotten meat.
Dogs aren't that smart and are easily distracted.
Not everyone can be a detective and thank god for that. I'll keep my faith in the portugese police.

1. Or something that had been in contact with the dead body was in the boot.
2. Rotten meat does not emit human cadaverene scent, which is what the dog is trained to detect.

micks_address

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So any thoughts on Scotland Yard not finding evidence of abduction after years of investigation?

its one thing not finding something, its another thing releasing false information.. how easy do you think it is to find anything after a number of years? If scotland yard were on the case from day one they would have had a much better chance of finding something.. how many years after did they actively get involved? The private investigation was a complete distraction.. if they had engaged scotland yard immediately they would have had a much better hope of success.. that's if there is an abduction.. i certainly have no idea what happened so can only guess.. im less inclined to believe that she died that evening given the timeline etc.. just the practical side of things don't add up... im also less inclined to believe a dog can smell a corpse that has been somewhere for at most an hour after death..

the facts just are not there to prove anything either way..

cgcsb

Something Else

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Not necessarily . It could be a lone wolf with no connections . Strange but possible , in this case nothing can be ruled out as there is simply no evidence

She'd be far too valuable an asset, given the global attention for him to keep to himself. Someone hands you an object on a platter so valuable that just images of it cost thousands and you're saying you would still keep it to yourself?

Plumbthedepths

iamwhoiam wrote:

Sure . There is no evidence of anything at all . No evidence of an abduction or an accident or a murder or a sale of a child Nothing at all that would eliminate any of the above And just as a matter of interest why is your posting so passive aggressive ? Can you not simply have a discussion without putting people down ?

Passive aggressive and putting people down? Can you elaborate please?
I referenced the inability of Scotland Yard to find evidence of abduction instead of replying to my comment you accuse me , if you don't want to or can't answer my question why respond at all?

paul64

Maybe Maddie died earlier that day or previously and the McCann’s had a third party collect her body and dispose of it while they are at dinner. Them knowing they would come back and she’s gone hence the they’ve taken her quote from Kate

tibruit

cnocbui wrote: »

The bins were one of the first things that were searched, according to the nanny (Catriona). There were, I think, 9 GNR officers searching from 02:00 onward. If the Mark Warner staff could think to check the bins, I am sure they could too.

There were apparently 188 bins in the town that were collected between midnight and 4 am. How thoroughly do you think their contents were investigated when the search was primarily all about a child that had either wandered off or been abducted? I`d say the searching of the bins involved little more than opening the lid and having a quick look inside. If somebody wanted to hide a body, they would have made some attempt to cover it over with rubbish.

micks_address

paul64 wrote: »

Maybe Maddie died earlier that day or previously and the McCann’s had a third party collect her body and dispose of it while they are at dinner. Them knowing they would come back and she’s gone hence the they’ve taken her quote from Kate

She was alive leaving the kids club at 6.15

Plumbthedepths

I only asked you had you any thoughts on Scotland Yard being unable to find any evidence of abduction. You could have just said you don't want to answer. Scotland Yards line of investigation was only to follow abduction no other avenues according to Collin Sutton.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

paul64 wrote: »

Maybe Maddie died earlier that day or previously and the McCann’s had a third party collect her body and dispose of it while they are at dinner. Them knowing they would come back and she’s gone hence the they’ve taken her quote from Kate

It seems very far fetched that they would know a third party person in Portugal who would be willing to do that . But anything is possible in this bizarre and strange case

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Passive aggressive and putting people down? Can you elaborate please?
I referenced the inability of Scotland Yard to find evidence of abduction instead of replying to my comment you accuse me , if you don't want to or can't answer my question why respond at all?

Actually do you know what . Fine I won't be answering you posts from now on
I can't be arsed really

Plumbthedepths

iamwhoiam wrote:

Actually do you know what . Fine I won't be answering you posts from now on I can't be arsed really

More polite if you just said you can't answer.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

She'd be far too valuable an asset, given the global attention for him to keep to himself. Someone hands you an object on a platter so valuable that just images of it cost thousands and you're saying you would still keep it to yourself?

No . I think she was so valuable but also such a huge risk that anyone who might have taken her would get rid of her very quickly . Just my opinion as I have no evidence but I doubt Madeleine was alive for long as she was a liability and far too high a risk for anyone to hang on to her

v638sg7k1a92bx

cgcsb wrote: »

I don't think the police had the means to go corpse shopping without raising any suspicion. The staff working in mortuaries etc. aren't going to keep quiet for the cops, especially in a case where the sun newspaper would have set them up for life to spill the beans.

So you think that the police don't have the means to hide a corpse but McCanns, who are on holiday in a place they've never been before, who also have two infant twins in their care, have more means and wherewithal to dispose of a body than the local police???

You think that staff working in mortuaries wouldn't be willing to keep quiet for the Portuguese police but the McCann's group of 7 friends would be willing to cover up the death or abduction of a child. Would the sun newspaper not be willing to set them up for life also?

Your thought process is all over the place.

v638sg7k1a92bx

paul64 wrote: »

Maybe Maddie died earlier that day or previously and the McCann’s had a third party collect her body and dispose of it while they are at dinner. Them knowing they would come back and she’s gone hence the they’ve taken her quote from Kate

So the parents arrange for someone to collect a dead body while they were on holidays, having dinner. Did they look this person up in the golden pages?

Something Else

Its frustrating when people keep saying there is no evidence for anything. There was plenty of evidence that she died in the apartment. Unfortunately it wasn't 100% conclusive.
The evidence is still there though. Perhaps when DNA testing improves it can be revisited.

There is no evidence of abduction.

Plumbthedepths

Deleted User wrote:

There is no evidence of abduction.

Exactly.

cgcsb

Something Else

iamwhoiam wrote: »

No . I think she was so valuable but also such a huge risk that anyone who might have taken her would get rid of her very quickly . Just my opinion as I have no evidence but I doubt Madeleine was alive for long as she was a liability and far too high a risk for anyone to hang on to her

The abductor only needed to hang on to images or videos of maddie and figure out a way to sell them later, would have been easy enough, bitcoin was invented the following year, plenty of shady types on the darkweb to sell to.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Deleted User wrote: »

Its frustrating when people keep saying there is no evidence for anything. There was plenty of evidence that she died in the apartment. Unfortunately it wasn't 100% conclusive.
The evidence is still there though. Perhaps when DNA testing improves it can be revisited.

There is no evidence of abduction.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The child is missing and hasn't been found, this is evidence in it's own right.

cgcsb

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

So you think that the police don't have the means to hide a corpse but McCanns, who are on holiday in a place they've never been before, who also have two infant twins in their care, have more means and wherewithal to dispose of a body than the local police???

No, that's not what I said.

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

You think that staff working in mortuaries wouldn't be willing to keep quiet for the Portuguese police but the McCann's group of 7 friends would be willing to cover up the death or abduction of a child. Would the sun newspaper not be willing to set them up for life also?

They don't need to, they might believe the McCanns, they just lied about timings to protect the McCanns from suspicion because they too were engaging in questionable parenting techniques.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

So the parents arrange for someone to collect a dead body while they were on holidays, having dinner. Did they look this person up in the golden pages?

That's to elaborate in my opinion,

I think the parents where the only ones in on it, The most logical is they bumped her in a bin somewhere and it was gone by the next day ,

Tapas 7 had no idea but I suspect lied to innocently protect there friends
The probably thought look a missing child is bad enough so we will lie about when we checked the apartments as the McCanns didn't need the hassle of being called bad parent on top of it,

I think they have my suspect the McCann did it later on and they have not given any interviews because if they change there story now people will think they where involved and that is why the lied,

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

tibruit wrote: »

There were apparently 188 bins in the town that were collected between midnight and 4 am. How thoroughly do you think their contents were investigated when the search was primarily all about a child that had either wandered off or been abducted? I`d say the searching of the bins involved little more than opening the lid and having a quick look inside. If somebody wanted to hide a body, they would have made some attempt to cover it over with rubbish.

The tracker dogs never followed a trail to any bins. We know the nearby bins were searched by hand.

Along with other workers from the Mark Warner resort, the nanny sifted by hand in the dark through industrial-sized bins and piping leading into the sea as they were told to look for a tiny corpse.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/we-were-asked-check-bins-10245072

Do you think the GNR would be less thorough than resort staff?

Plumbthedepths

cnocbui wrote:

Do you think the GNR would be less thorough than resort staff?

It has been suggested many times here that the Portuguese authorities were incompetent.

iamwhoiam

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That's to elaborate in my opinion,

I think the parents where the only ones in on it, The most logical is they bumped her in a bin somewhere and it was gone by the next day ,

Tapas 7 had no idea but I suspect lied to innocently protect there friends
The probably thought look a missing child is bad enough so we will lie about when we checked the apartments as the McCanns didn't need the hassle of being called bad parent on top of it,

d,

I think the Tapas 7 lied to protect themselves . They seemed a very selfish lot and probably didn't want criticism to fall on their shoulders . Then 7 small children were left alone by a group of people who should have known better and in my opinion were not checked as often as they said they did

Plumbthedepths

iamwhoiam wrote:

I think the Tapas 7 lied to protect themselves . They seemed a very selfish lot and probably didn't want criticism to fall on their shoulders . Then 7 small children were left alone by a group of people who should have known better and in my opinion were not checked as often as they said they did

8 children.

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SusieBlue has her thread ban lifted following discussion.

tibruit

cnocbui wrote: »

The tracker dogs never followed a trail to any bins. We know the nearby bins were searched by hand.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/we-were-asked-check-bins-10245072

Do you think the GNR would be less thorough than resort staff?

I don`t believe for a minute that the bins were meticulously searched before collection, even those close by. The quote about the nanny having a root around in the dark says it all really. In the first few hours, everyone was looking for a living child. By the time the sniffer dogs arrived the bins were long emptied, plus Madeleines body would have been carried to the bin, no contact with the ground etc.

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

tibruit wrote: »

I don`t believe for a minute that the bins were meticulously searched before collection, even those close by. The quote about the nanny having a root around in the dark says it all really. In the first few hours, everyone was looking for a living child. By the time the sniffer dogs arrived the bins were long emptied, plus Madeleines body would have been carried to the bin, no contact with the ground etc.

Surely the bins are processed at some sort of rubbish plant where something would be noticed. I know body parts were found in bins in Dublin previously.

v638sg7k1a92bx

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That's to elaborate in my opinion,

I think the parents where the only ones in on it, The most logical is they bumped her in a bin somewhere and it was gone by the next day ,

Tapas 7 had no idea but I suspect lied to innocently protect there friends
The probably thought look a missing child is bad enough so we will lie about when we checked the apartments as the McCanns didn't need the hassle of being called bad parent on top of it,

I think they have my suspect the McCann did it later on and they have not given any interviews because if they change there story now people will think they where involved and that is why the lied,

So 7 different people have maintained a vow of silence for 12 years and after two separate police investigations?

It's almost impossible for two people to keep a consistent story when they are lying and under police investigation. For 7 people to keep a consistent story under police investigation would be a miracle.

Plumbthedepths

Boom_Bap wrote:

Surely the bins are processed at some sort of rubbish plant where something would be noticed. I know body parts were found in bins in Dublin previously.

In 2014 according to the Algarvedaily.com 54 per cent of waste was going directly to landfill, the figure would have been higher in 2007.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Surely the bins are processed at some sort of rubbish plant where something would be noticed. I know body parts were found in bins in Dublin previously.

At the time they where just tipped into a land fill

Plumbthedepths

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:

It's almost impossible for two people to keep a consistent story when they are lying and under police investigation. For 7 people to keep a consistent story under police investigation would be a miracle.

The story from the 7 changed several times and had plenty of inconsistencies. Plus they refused to do a reconstruction, even though it may have helped.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

So 7 different people have maintained a vow of silence for 12 years and after two separate police investigations?

It's almost impossible for two people to keep a consistent story when they are lying and under police investigation. For 7 people to keep a consistent story under police investigation would be a miracle.

I agree with

Sure there timelines of the night changed multiply times and never made sense and since they have gave no interviews,
They sure as hell lied, but I don't think it was sinister, it was more to protect themselves (for leaving there own kids alone ) and there friend who they thought where innocent,

"It's almost impossible for two people to keep a consistent story when they are lying and under police investigation "

Probably why Kate refused to answer any of the 47 questions even though most where valid and easily answered

micks_address

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I only asked you had you any thoughts on Scotland Yard being unable to find any evidence of abduction. You could have just said you don't want to answer. Scotland Yards line of investigation was only to follow abduction no other avenues according to Collin Sutton.

You are suggesting that scotland yard if they found evidence to the contrary to abduction would ignore it? That they have somehow been restricted to following the abduction or nothing theory?

micks_address

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The story from the 7 changed several times and had plenty of inconsistencies. Plus they refused to do a reconstruction, even though it may have helped.

The McCanns did make themselves available for a reconstruction? Its shown in the documentary the memo where they say they can be available

Plumbthedepths

micks_address wrote:

You are suggesting that scotland yard if they found evidence to the contrary to abduction would ignore it? That they have somehow been restricted to following the abduction or nothing theory?

Collin Sutton was asked to lead the enquiry he refused when he was told the scope only allowed for abduction. His interview was with Martin Brunt of Sky News. Not my suggestion btw.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

micks_address wrote: »

You are suggesting that scotland yard if they found evidence to the contrary to abduction would ignore it? That they have somehow been restricted to following the abduction or nothing theory?

As strange as it sounds this looks true,

Didn't a well know officer reject the top job there as he was told he could only look at the case as an abduction , he said this went against the ethics of a police force,

I can't recall his name but you'll find it on goggle,

Looks like the McCann had friends in high places.,

BloodBath

Something Else

Wasn't there a story about Gerry making a blog post about bringing a broken fridge freezer from his apartment to the dump?

Pretty unusual for someone renting an apartment to do this without notifying the landlord. This was the day before they were made suspects and the post was taken down when they were made suspects.

Also coincides with the neighbour seeing the car boot being open for days airing out in the sun. It may be innocuous but seems pretty suspicious to me. Much like Kate's comments that she felt the kids might have been sedated because it took them a long time to wake up. This was never tested. I wonder if both stories were them covering their tracks in case of witnesses or tests.

Plumbthedepths

micks_address wrote:

The McCanns did make themselves available for a reconstruction? Its shown in the documentary the memo where they say they can be available

They refused in 2008 claiming a year had passed and it would serve no purpose . They took part in a reconstruction in 2013, 7 years after the disappearance. I would have thought the closer to Madeline's disappearance the better.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

BloodBath wrote: »

Wasn't there a story about Gerry making a blog post about bringing a broken fridge freezer from his apartment to the dump?

Surely that's not true ? is there any evidence of this

Plumbthedepths

yourdeadwright wrote:

I can't recall his name but you'll find it on goggle,

Colin Sutton an assistant commissioner at the time.

micks_address

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Collin Sutton was asked to lead the enquiry he refused when he was told the scope only allowed for abduction. His interview was with Martin Brunt of Sky News. Not my suggestion btw.

whats wrong with the guy who is leading at the moment? Documentary suggests he is a very solid candidate for the job

Plumbthedepths

micks_address wrote:

whats wrong with the guy who is leading at the moment? Documentary suggests he is a very solid candidate for the job

I never said there was anything wrong with the person leading it, why do you ignore the narrow remit the investigation was given according to Colin Sutton surely all avenues in a missing child investigation should be examined?

v638sg7k1a92bx

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The story from the 7 changed several times and had plenty of inconsistencies. Plus they refused to do a reconstruction, even though it may have helped.

If we took you and six of your friends on a night out and took you in for questioning the next day, I guarantee that your version of events would all be different. Now add to the mix that a child has gone missing and everyone is running around in a flap.

That they changed their stories suggests that they recalled things differently and were probably changing the account to help with the investigation rather than scupper it. The reason they didn't want to participate in an reconstruction afterwards was because the family had lost faith in the police at that stage because they were trying to stitch them up for the disappearance, the cops were also leaking info to the media while the McCanns were under threat of prosecution for doing same.

micks_address

BloodBath wrote: »

Wasn't there a story about Gerry making a blog post about bringing a broken fridge freezer from his apartment to the dump?

Pretty unusual for someone renting an apartment to do this without notifying the landlord. This was the day before they were made suspects and the post was taken down when they were made suspects.

Also coincides with the neighbor seeing the car boot being open for days airing out in the sun. It may be innocuous but seems pretty suspicious to me. Much like Kate's comments that she felt the kids might have been sedated because it took them a long time to wake up. This was never tested. I wonder if both stories were them covering their tracks in case of witnesses or tests.

id be interested in hearing more about this... if true would certainly fit the theory a body may have been refrigerated and moved in the car somewhere hence the dog indication.. timelines etc would be obviously key.. and when did they get the apartment?

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

micks_address wrote: »

whats wrong with the guy who is leading at the moment? Documentary suggests he is a very solid candidate for the job

He was the Boss man so to speak as the case got old and time went on it would be handed down to someone else and the guy on the Documentary would be in charge of current more prominent cases

Remember its a case of one missing child which no links to trafficker's or rings, They traffickers and rings would be much higher up the list of priorities as the effect more victims and more of a current threat

Plumbthedepths

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:

That they changed their stories suggests that they recalled things differently and were probably changing the account to help with the investigation rather than scupper it. The reason they didn't want to participate in an reconstruction afterwards was because the family had lost faith in the police at that stage because they were trying to stitch them up for the disappearance, the cops were also leaking info to the media while the McCanns were under threat of prosecution for doing same.

Genuine question but how do you think a constant changing of account would help an investigation?

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The story from the 7 changed several times and had plenty of inconsistencies. Plus they refused to do a reconstruction, even though it may have helped.

Inconsistencies are normal and to be expected. In fact you could argue it would have been more suspicious if there hadn't been any.

"The accounts and timings and various statements that were taken immediately after Madeleine was reported missing, and the statements that have subsequently been taken, there is a degree of variation between what individuals say and also what the whole group says," Sutton, who solved more than 30 murders - including the catching of violent English serial killer Levi Bellfield - said in Maddie.
...

Sutton said there are always inconsistencies when police interview a group of people about a single event.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

If we took you and six of your friends on a night out and took you in for questioning the next day, I guarantee that your version of events would all be different. Now add to the mix that a child has gone missing and everyone is running around in a flap.

That they changed their stories suggests that they recalled things differently and were probably changing the account to help with the investigation rather than scupper it. The reason they didn't want to participate in an reconstruction afterwards was because the family had lost faith in the police at that stage because they were trying to stitch them up for the disappearance, the cops were also leaking info to the media while the McCanns were under threat of prosecution for doing same.

This is all totally understandable,
Again I don't think they had any involvement or any idea of what happened, but with the fact they where "friends" why not come forward and explain this and have your side heard , it could help the McCann find Maddy

I don't think anyone would think they where actually involved its way to far fetched but I don thick they lied simply to protect themselves and there Friends from sounding like bad parents,

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

How do you know the cops didn't do that? They were trying to stitch the parents up for the murder and the lead investigator was a formal suspect in another case of a missing child where the police were suspected of interfering with evidence. The same lead investigator also suggested the same theory that the body have been kept in a fridge.

Interesting method of mud slinging by assumption and innuendo. I'd suggest putting down the shovel and looking up some of the case files for a change but I'm probably wasting my time tbh.

First of all the Portuguese never pursued the theory of murder in the case of Madeleine McCann. Rather the investigation led them to the conclusion that the child died as a result of an accident in the apartment.

Secondly the lead investigator (as has already been explained btw) was not accused of 'suspected of interfering with evidence' but rather for having covered for another officer involved in an investigation of a case where a girl was found to have been been murdered by her mother, Leonor Cipriano, and her uncle, João Cipriano, after witnessing them engaged in incestuous sex.

As to the Madeleine case and why a body or the child has never been found - the case remains unsolved to this day. That a theory was put forward that the child may have been put into a cold unit or fridge and later retrieved is that - a theory. It is perhaps no less crazy than believing that some type of masked ranger rode into town and managed to abduct the child with absolutely no one seeing or hearing anything or indeed leaving a single piece of evidence behind.

That this remains a possibility and is not unknown in other cases where bodies were placed in cold storage with the intent of later disposal. It remains theres bugger all evidence to fully support any one scenario. Hence this discussion.

micks_address

Found this on fridge

http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t20443-the-fridge