Madeleine McCann

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

|If she was abducted by a gang , someone would have come forward by now, some thing would have been heard in the underworld, someone would have ratted someone out, some pics would be found on computers,
Never a peep out of the underworld about her not even the slightest thing ,


Its always the simplest obvious thing, Parent put her in the bins, bins where collected and put in the land fill and nothing ever heard from her again ,

v638sg7k1a92bx

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No fridge needed straight Into the bins that where collected every night

So you've just debunked the DNA theory in the car and what evidence do you have to suggest that a body was dumped in the bin.

Both the Portuguese police and Scotland yard have said there is no evidence to suggest the child is dead.

Tomw86

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and who said the kids were sedated?

The sedation is widely accepted as having happened. I am not sure if there is actual proof of it though.

Like I said, it's my opinion, I am not putting forward a definite theory as this is impossible.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Tomw86 wrote: »

The sedation is widely accepted as having happened. I am not sure if there is actual proof of it though.

Like I said, it's my opinion, I am not putting forward a definite theory as this is impossible.

Widely accepted by who? Only people who are peddling the notion that the parents were involved. Please show me the police file, testimony or witness statement that says the parents sedated their daughter.

v638sg7k1a92bx

yourdeadwright wrote: »

|If she was abducted by a gang , someone would have come forward by now, some thing would have been heard in the underworld, someone would have ratted someone out, some pics would be found on computers,
Never a peep out of the underworld about her not even the slightest thing ,


Its always the simplest obvious thing, Parent put her in the bins, bins where collected and put in the land fill and nothing ever heard from her again ,

So you have the inside track on what's going on in the underworld? Good man.

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Lets walk through that scenario.
1. A dead body, which is too big to fit in a fridge,
2. Being secretly hidden by the parents who are being watched by police and world media
3. The fridge requires a power supply to keep the body cold so it has to be stored indoors and connected to a power supply.
4. Is then moved by the parent 3 weeks later in a rental car to be disposed of while the police and media are following them everywhere.
So all this time nobody notices the parents hiding a dead body in a fridge which is plugged in their apartment because if it wasn't the body would stink. Before you say "oh well it could of been in their friends apartment" How would that conversation with their friend go, "excuse me dear friend, I'm going to hide this, fridge which is too small to fit a body, in your apartment for 3 weeks, promise not to tell anyone about if and I'll be you bff".This theory is so farcical that you cannot but question the emotional intelligence of someone who would take it seriously

I think it has been established that we have no idea what the Fridge was like or whether it was that other types of cold storage was used. The thing is that McCanns moved from their apartment to another apartment and then to a stand alone villa on a cul de sac afaik. Certainly up to and including August they were not suspects and the police were not 'watching' them. So yeah they moved a few times. Is all this fairly incredible? Possibly but it is not as incredible as a child disappearing in the night whilst multiple people supposedly were checking on them and having dinner (according to themselves) only a short distance away ....

weldoninhio

Something Else

SteM wrote: »

This is what I can't understand about this thread. Someone says that 2 parents could have disposed of their child's body by putting it in the sea without being seen doing it and it's never found. But then they'll say that there is no way someone could climb out of a 2 metre high window with a 4 year old in their arms. Why is one straightforward but the other thing impossible?

I believe that it is possible for someone to climb out a 2m high window with a child in their arms but I don't think it was necessary. If there ware 2 people involved the child could easily have been passed out the window to someone standing outside.

It is 100% possible to climb out a window with a 4yr old in your arms.


It is impossible to climb out a window with a 4yr old in your arms without disturbing the dry moss/lichen on the outside windowsill.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Tomw86 wrote: »

The sedation is widely accepted as having happened. I am not sure if there is actual proof of it though.

Like I said, it's my opinion, I am not putting forward a definite theory as this is impossible.

An opinion based on ignorance and lack of understanding of the facts.

weldoninhio

Something Else

BloodBath wrote: »

Did you even read what I posted?

They obviously should have sealed it off before they arrived, useless Portuguese cops :P

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

So you've just debunked the DNA theory in the car and what evidence do you have to suggest that a body was dumped in the bin.

Both the Portuguese police and Scotland yard have said there is no evidence to suggest the child is dead.

How is the car Debunked ?
She didn't ever have to be in the car for the dogs to bark , her clothes is all that had to be there , I never thought she was in the car whjy hold onto the body that long, when there was bin outside your apartment that was collected every night,

"Both the Portuguese police and Scotland yard have said there is no evidence to suggest the child is dead "

They have zero evidence of anything,

Think about it logically, think of all the rings and traffickers caught since, Anyone of them would have time reduced if they had information on Maddy and told the police, but never a single peep about her,

She was not abducted no evidence of anyone ever taking her ,No even valid theory ,

SteM

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

So you have the inside track on what's going on in the underworld? Good man.

No, but his best mate is a bin man who knows that every bin in PdL is emptied every night. Just like the McCanns knew

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

An opinion based on ignorance and lack of understanding of the facts.

So why did the mother request that her remaining children be tested some time after the child disappeared. Was her opinion based on ignorance and lack of understanding of the facts.l?

Tomw86

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

So you've just debunked the DNA theory in the car and what evidence do you have to suggest that a body was dumped in the bin.

Both the Portuguese police and Scotland yard have said there is no evidence to suggest the child is dead.

They have also said there is no evidence of anyone else being in the apartment/an abduction.

@Tristen Hissing Typhoon - I may have missed it, but what do you think happened?

v638sg7k1a92bx

gozunda wrote: »

I think it has been established that we have no idea what the Fridge was like or whether it was that other types of cold storage was used. The thing is that McCanns moved from their apartment to another apartment and then to a stand alone villa on a cul de sac afaik. Certainly up to and including August they were not suspects and the police were not 'watching' them. So yeah they moved a few times. Is all this fairly incredible? Possibly but it is not as incredible as a child disappearing in the night whilst multiple people supposedly were checking on them and having dinner (according to themselves) only a short distance away ....

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to conceal a dead body, never-mind storing one in a fridge that is too small and moving this fridge from apartment to apartment and eventually disposing of it by moving it into a rental car and dumping it on the side of the road???

v638sg7k1a92bx

Tomw86 wrote: »

They have also said there is no evidence of anyone else being in the apartment/an abduction.

@Tickers - I may have missed it, but what do you think happened?

What evidence would expect them to leave behind. Unless they took a dump in the toilet what DNA are they going to leave?

They walk in lift the child out of the bed and walk out, what evidence would you expect their to be?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Widely accepted by who? Only people who are peddling the notion that the parents were involved. Please show me the police file, testimony or witness statement that says the parents sedated their daughter.

Your very quick to shut down people opinion,

Would you care to share any evidence that she was taken ? ohh that's right there is zero evidence ,

I don't need contact In the under world, Scotland yard, FBI have been tracking people and busting traffickers and rings for 12 years since she been missing found millions of pick of kids and never once have the come across anything to do with Maddy , not even a mention ,

How can you count out the parents when you don't know them and have no idea what happened , How can you say they did not get rid of her when you no evidence to point at anything else ,

Its very narrow minded of you ,

BloodBath

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

Yes? It is the police's fault that the apartment wasn't preserved.
And it is likely that possible evidence was contaminated during the search while the apartment was being searched, before it was sealed off.

I responded to what you directly posted so I'm confused at your reply.

Try reading it again.

The majority of the trampling was done before the police even got there. It was a missing child case. Most missing kids turn up. It was not yet a crime scene.

v638sg7k1a92bx

gozunda wrote: »

So why did the mother request that her remaining children be tested some time after the child disappeared. Was her opinion based on ignorance and lack of understanding of the facts.l?

Probably because she was desperate and frantic trying to rule out all possible scenarios that are flying around your head after you child has gone missing.

If you're theory is correct that the mother sedated the children, why would she request the police to administer a blood test and only bring further suspicion on herself?

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

SteM wrote: »

No, but his best mate is a bin man who knows that every bin in PdL is emptied every night. Just like the McCanns knew

Its public that at the time the bins where emptied every night, and the ones around there apartment where always picked up at around 4 am ,

At that time they where pout in a landfill ,

Kate spoke about it in her own book ,

v638sg7k1a92bx

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How is the car Debunked ?
She didn't ever have to be in the car for the dogs to bark , her clothes is all that had to be there , I never thought she was in the car whjy hold onto the body that long, when there was bin outside your apartment that was collected every night,

"Both the Portuguese police and Scotland yard have said there is no evidence to suggest the child is dead "

They have zero evidence of anything,

Think about it logically, think of all the rings and traffickers caught since, Anyone of them would have time reduced if they had information on Maddy and told the police, but never a single peep about her,

She was not abducted no evidence of anyone ever taking her ,No even valid theory ,

As I keep saying. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

What evidence would you expect in an abduction unless they took took a dump in the toilet and forgot to flush?

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Probably because she was desperate and frantic trying to rule out all possible scenarios that are flying around your head after you child has gone missing.

If you're theory is correct that the mother sedated the children, why would she request the police to administer a blood test and only bring further suspicion on herself?

Kate was an anaesthetist, she would have had very good knowledge on the subject , She would know exactly how long it would be in your system.,

Didn't she say she suspect the twins could have been drugged at a later date, Seems odd someone of her experience would only think of that at a later date ,

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to conceal a dead body, never-mind storing one in a fridge that is too small and moving this fridge from apartment to apartment and eventually disposing of it by moving it into a rental car and dumping it on the side of the road???

Do you? Do you have any idea how difficult it is for a child to disappear from an apartment with no one seeing or knowing anything? Again the family moved- we've no idea where said fridge or indeed other cold storage might have been used. The trouble with trying to nail down theories (and that is what this is - just like all the others) is that they have a habit of getting away from you.

Btw you better get in Touch with the Portuguese police and tell them you know exactly what happened with the fridge and point out the spot on the road where it was dropped :rolleyes:

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

As I keep saying. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

What evidence would you expect in an abduction unless they took took a dump in the toilet and forgot to flush?

Kate herself said the window was open ,

If they opened it even wearing gloves there would be glove marks ,
I do find it strange the only mark on the whole window was one hand printed from Kate

Ud have thought they'd have found some partial marks from her or Gerry to .,


Why do you think she was abducted ? would you always believe someone you never meet at face value ?

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Probably because she was desperate and frantic trying to rule out all possible scenarios that are flying around your head after you child has gone missing.

If you're theory is correct that the mother sedated the children, why would she request the police to administer a blood test and only bring further suspicion on herself?

So you've gone from saying that this idea was based on ignorance to now saying that the mother was doing what she was doing!

Nope. I never proposed the mother sedated the children. As someone else said you are very quick to jump on everyone else. Strange that. Funny thing was that when the tests were requested it was probably to late as most medicines etc would have found anything. And btw it's not me saying that either. You really need to check your facts before jumping down peoples throats tbh. But there you go ...

v638sg7k1a92bx

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How is the car Debunked ?

If the body was dumped in the bin the same night, then how did the supposed DNA evidence end up in the rental car three weeks later?

v638sg7k1a92bx

gozunda wrote: »

So you've gone from saying that this idea was based on ignorance to now saying that the mother was doing what she was doing!

I was responding to your question as to why the mother would ask for her kids to be tested by the police. I don't believe that the mother made that request, I haven't seen anything to suggest that she made that request.

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

If the body was dumped in the bin the same night, then how did the supposed DNA evidence end up in the rental car three weeks later?

Tickets I think you need to read the thread. That has already been discussed several times.

v638sg7k1a92bx

gozunda wrote: »

Tickets I think you need to read the thread. That has already been discussed several times.

I think you need to understand what the evidence is. The supposed DNA evidence was so inconclusive and full of qualifications that it has been totally disregarded.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Maddy was in kids club till 6 every day then left alone from 7:30 every night, Who does that to there child ?

They left there two twins back in crèche after Maddy disappeared, while they where out running and playing Tennis , Its all there in Gerry blog,

The McCann where very very odd ,

I can not for the life of me understand how with zero evidence of an abduction and the fact no on but them seen Maddie since 6:30 that you can not make them the number one suspects ,

I think your doing the child a disservice if you think Oh they couldn't do that to there daughter, So many cases of what look like normal people doing extremely disturbing things in the world

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

I think you need to understand what the evidence is. The supposed DNA evidence was so inconclusive and full of qualifications that it has been totally disregarded.

You know this is a discussion thread yeah?

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

If the body was dumped in the bin the same night, then how did the supposed DNA evidence end up in the rental car three weeks later?

There was no DNA evidence ?
The dog barked because he could smell dead body , Could have been a number of things, Could have been clothes a dead person wore, It oculd have been from the Teddy as he Barked at that to and Kate had that in the car a lot, Could have been a bed sheet ,

There are loads of possible explanation's , the body did not have to ever be In the car itself,

Serious question what do you make of the cadavers dog only barking at the following

Apartment,
Maddies fav toy,
MAddies clothes ,
The McCann car ,

Is that not a bit random , the dog only reacted to them items ?

v638sg7k1a92bx

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Maddy was in kids club till 6 every day then left alone from 7:30 every night, Who does that to there child ?

They left there two twins back in crèche after Maddy disappeared, while they where out running and playing Tennis , Its all there in Gerry blog,

The McCann where very very odd ,

I can not for the life of me understand how with zero evidence of an abduction and the fact no on but them seen Maddie since 6:30 that you can not make them the number one suspects ,

I think your doing the child a disservice if you think Oh they couldn't do that to there daughter, So many cases of what look like normal people doing extremely disturbing things in the world

First, your facts and timeline are completely inaccurate. I don't have the energy to point each one out, it's been done so many times that it's tiresome.

Second, what evidence would you like to see that there was an abduction? Did you expect a kidnapper to spit on the floor? Somebody walks into a room picks up a child and walks out. What evidence do you want to see? The child is missing, is that not evidence in itself?

Third, if by your own admission there is no evidence of an abduction then by the same account how could there be evidence that it was the parents?

v638sg7k1a92bx

yourdeadwright wrote: »

There was no DNA evidence ?
The dog barked because he could smell dead body , Could have been a number of things, Could have been clothes a dead person wore, It oculd have been from the Teddy as he Barked at that to and Kate had that in the car a lot, Could have been a bed sheet ,

There are loads of possible explanation's , the body did not have to ever be In the car itself,

Serious question what do you make of the cadavers dog only barking at the following

Apartment,
Maddies fav toy,
MAddies clothes ,
The McCann car ,

Is that not a bit random , the dog only reacted to them items ?

A dog barking at a teddy bear is not reliable evidence and if it was reliable evidence why do you automatically assume the parents are responsible?

Next.

v638sg7k1a92bx

gozunda wrote: »

You know this is a discussion thread yeah?

Yes where we discuss how all your ideas and assertions are wrong.

v638sg7k1a92bx

gozunda wrote: »

Thickers - I think you need to read the thread. That has already been discussed several times.

Btw that first reply was when you said you reckoned anyone opining about sedation were basing their comment on ignorance etc. and I asked did you believe the mother ignorant as well?

PJ Files - Gerry McCann Police Interview

PJ files. Inspector Ricardo Paiva Police report. I presume you think it was made up as well :rolleyes:

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htmInspector

For the last time. The suggestion that the mother sedated the children is false.
Show me the evidence that shows the children were sedated. No long winded copy and paste answers.

cursai

limnam wrote: »

Dogs aren't that smart?


The dog owner/trainer with 30 years experience wit an impeccable record now working for the FBI stated the dog won't detect rotten meat as a corpse.


Yet you, who have no experience in the above just rock out a random statement about "dogs been distracted.


I'd like to hear more from you.

How do you have any experience of mutt experience Dr. Dolittle. Did a dog tell you that. Woof woof

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

A dog barking at a teddy bear is not reliable evidence and if it was reliable evidence why do you automatically assume the parents are responsible?

Next.

Its not evidence but its a indication , Just because the DNA was not present does not mean the dog was incorrect,
Not sure if your a betting man but if you make an accumulator of the chance that they are the only item the dog would react to you be looking at absolutely massive odds,

Again its not evidence but its a huge indication

drkpower

The only 'evidence' that has ever suggested that the parents were in any way involved in the disappearance are the dog alerts; and the dog handler accepts that is not evidence at all unless it is corroborated by actual physical evidence. Which it hasn't been.

Whether they are bad parents or not is a separate issue.
Whether there is any evidence of an abductor is a separate issue.
Most every other issue raised in this case is a separate issue.

It is a really puzzling case on many levels, hence the fascination, but there is no actual evidence (within any reasonable meaning of that word) of the parent's involvement.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

First, your facts and timeline are completely inaccurate. I don't have the energy to point each one out, it's been done so many times that it's tiresome.

Second, what evidence would you like to see that there was an abduction? Did you expect a kidnapper to spit on the floor? Somebody walks into a room picks up a child and walks out. What evidence do you want to see? The child is missing, is that not evidence in itself?

Third, if by your own admission there is no evidence of an abduction then by the same account how could there be evidence that it was the parents?

Honest question do you not think its strange after all the man power FBI, Scotland yard, all the money involved that nothing has ever shown up on Maddy , that no one has ever talked,

Think of all the people arrested and charged with these kind of crimes and all the pictures recovered and not one person has had any info on her ?


Do you not find that strange ?

Tristen Hissing Typhoon

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

A dog barking at a teddy bear is not reliable evidence and if it was reliable evidence why do you automatically assume the parents are responsible?

Next.

A dog barking at a Teddy Bear :rolleyes:

You know damn well that they are 2 well trained dogs that signalled in both the apartment and car at several locations.

The dogs dont understand if evidence is conclusive or not. They were just brought in to search for the smell. And they signalled were they smelt it.

Convicting someone of a crime is not easy to do. Ask OJ

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

drkpower wrote: »

The only 'evidence' that has ever suggested that the parents were in any way involved in the disappearance are the dog alerts; and the dog handler accepts that is not evidence at all unless it is corroborated by actual physical evidence. Which it hasn't been.

Whether they are bad parents or not is a separate issue.
Whether there is any evidence of an abductor is a separate issue.
Most every other issue raised in this case is a separate issue.

It is a really puzzling case on many levels, hence the fascination, but there is no actual evidence (within any reasonable meaning of that word) of the parent's involvement.

That is true but there is also zero evidence of abduction
Do you not think people should have an open mind ,
Do you think there is 100% zero chance it was the parents ?

Even when every other avenue has come up fruitless, don't forget the Scotland yard and the FBI have never open a official investigation at the possibility other than the abduction one ,

Its mental to hear they would not even look into the parents ,that makes no sense at all ,

Tomw86

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

First, your facts and timeline are completely inaccurate. I don't have the energy to point each one out, it's been done so many times that it's tiresome.

Second, what evidence would you like to see that there was an abduction? Did you expect a kidnapper to spit on the floor? Somebody walks into a room picks up a child and walks out. What evidence do you want to see? The child is missing, is that not evidence in itself?

Third, if by your own admission there is no evidence of an abduction then by the same account how could there be evidence that it was the parents?

If there was an abduction there would have been evidence in the form of show prints/sightings/dishevelment of the bed/finger or palm prints.

Even if gloves are worn, there would be forensic evidence in or around the door handle and bed.

The lack of sightings or information coming from the underworld is very telling too.

You really are on a crusade and making yourself look stupid!

drkpower

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That is true but there is also zero evidence of abduction
Do you not think people should have an open mind ,
Do you think there is 100% zero chance it was the parents ?

Even when every other avenue has come up fruitless, don't forget the Scotland yard and the FBI have never open a official investigation at the possibility other than the abduction one ,

Its mental to hear they would not even look into the parents ,that makes no sense at all ,

Of course everyone should have an open mind.

There is lots of evidence of an abduction; the child is gone and hasn't been found; there is zero evidence of an abductor, which is a different thing.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Deleted User wrote: »

A dog barking at a Teddy Bear :rolleyes:

You know damn well that they are 2 well trained dogs that signalled in both the apartment and car at several locations.

The dogs dont understand if evidence is conclusive or not. They were just brought in to search for the smell. And they signalled were they smelt it.

Convicting someone of a crime is not easy to do. Ask OJ

Its obvious people who put it down as "just barking at a Teddy " refuse to look at the whole picture,

They bark at Maddies Teddy, (Strangely the one Kate never let go off )
They bark in apartment,
They pic her clothes out of all the ones laid out ,
They bark at there car out of all the ones there ,

If someone doesn't think that is strange they may be lacking in intelligence

Tomw86

Something Else

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That is true but there is also zero evidence of abduction
Do you not think people should have an open mind ,
Do you think there is 100% zero chance it was the parents ?

Even when every other avenue has come up fruitless, don't forget the Scotland yard and the FBI have never open a official investigation at the possibility other than the abduction one ,

Its mental to hear they would not even look into the parents ,that makes no sense at all ,

If I read this thread correctly earlier, it was said that Scotland Yard and the FBI were not allowed look at anything other than an abduction. It is mental though!

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

drkpower wrote: »

Of course everyone should have an open mind.

There is lots of evidence of an abduction; the child is gone and hasn't been found; there is zero evidence of an abductor, which is a different thing.

There is no evidence of abduction , there is just evidence of a missing child ,

gozunda

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

For the last time. The suggestion that the mother sedated the children is false. Show me the evidence that shows the children were sedated. No long winded copy and paste answers.

Thats hilarious. Btw no where was it stated in my comment that the mother sedated the children. In your last comment you stated that you did not believe the mother made a request to have the children checked for the presence of drugs. I then gave extracts from the PJ files showing this request made by the mother.

You really really need to start reading what has written.

NuttyMcNutty

Wasn't she out on the boats earlier that day with the kids club?

limnam

drkpower wrote: »

Of course everyone should have an open mind.

There is lots of evidence of an abduction; the child is gone and hasn't been found; there is zero evidence of an abductor, which is a different thing.

We've gone over this so many times


A missing child is not evidence they were abducted.

drkpower

yourdeadwright wrote: »

There is no evidence of abduction , there is just evidence of a missing child ,

Which is evidence of an abduction; it doesn't mean that an abduction occurred of course. There are of course other possibilities.

There is clearly no clear evidence of what happened in this case, and who did what (or didnt). That is undoubtedly frustrating. But the tendency of people to fill that evidential gap with half baked nonsense is pointless. Sometimes crimes go unsolved and no-one knows; this looks like one of those cases.