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Lowering the rent for family member.

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    #32
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Aaliyah Angry Cement wrote:
    Because my realationa aren’t useless pr1cks who stop paying rent, there is an infinitely higher chance a stranger stopping paying rent.


    Sometimes it's not the siblings that are the problem, but their spouses.


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    #33
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Anders Few Rubbish wrote: »
    Because my realationa aren’t useless pr1cks who stop paying rent, there is an infinitely higher chance a stranger stopping paying rent.

    Yes, but on the small chance that your family member DOES stop paying the rent, through no fault of their own, lost a job, got sick, whatever, your hands are tied because, you said it yourself, family help each other out.

    Its your assumption that people who are unable to pay rent are all useless pr1cks that is clouding your view on the reality of it.


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    #34
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,707 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    ....... wrote: »
    Yes, but on the small chance that your family member DOES stop paying the rent, through no fault of their own, lost a job, got sick, whatever, your hands are tied because, you said it yourself, family help each other out.

    I've been renting off my brother for over 5 years and there has never been a single issue on either side. I was unemployed for 9 months of last year and wouldn't have even dreamed of asking for a stay on the rent or anything of the sort.

    It's rare I find myself agreeing with Nox on pretty much anything but I kind of have to agree with him here, I don't understand the dire warnings about renting to family. It's been a win-win situation for both sides in my case.


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    #35
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,677 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    I've been renting off my brother for over 5 years and there has never been a single issue on either side. I was unemployed for 9 months of last year and wouldn't have even dreamed of asking for a stay on the rent or anything of the sort.

    It's rare I find myself agreeing with Nox on pretty much anything but I kind of have to agree with him here, I don't understand the dire warnings about renting to family. It's been a win-win situation for both sides in my case.

    Well, at least you're speaking from experience. Fair play to you for holding it for 9 months of unemployment.


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    #36
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    I've been renting off my brother for over 5 years and there has never been a single issue on either side. I was unemployed for 9 months of last year and wouldn't have even dreamed of asking for a stay on the rent or anything of the sort.

    It's rare I find myself agreeing with Nox on pretty much anything but I kind of have to agree with him here, I don't understand the dire warnings about renting to family. It's been a win-win situation for both sides in my case.

    And thats great, and youre great.

    But when a family member ISNT so great, then its much much harder to do anything about it, because they are family.

    Theres no point in burying heads in the sand, anyone might stop paying the rent. The issue is far worse when the anyone is a family member.


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    #37
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    I think one’s view on renting to family really depends on personal experience. There’s no right answer. For me, some family I would rent to or from and some I’d steer clear of. It’s not been my experience that things always remain harmonious when family is involved. Sometimes it massively complicates things. It’s harder to remove a family member who stops paying and lifelong bad blood can ensue. When dealing with strangers, if something goes wrong, you can have nothing more to with them once things are straightened out. Much harder to do with family.


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    #38
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    There's a lot to be said for considering what your relative is asking in purely financial terms.

    €300 * 12 = €3,600

    If he came and asked for that much money, not as a loan, as a straight up gift, would you give it to him? Thats effectively what he's asking. Never mind the rent collection etc.

    There are family members I'd do that for, but unless there was a benefit/offset to me (reduced tax, flexibility, property better cared for, upfront payment), I wouldn't do it for a cousin.


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    #39
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,272 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kingp35


    As a Revenue Auditor up to a few months ago there is some poor advice in this thread.

    Do not keep €800 on the lease and only accept €500 as you will be taxed on the full €800. Even the idea of letting the family member go into arrears is a bad idea as Revenue will still look for tax on the full €800 as that's what is on the lease. When you try to write off the arrears as a bad debt they may come looking for an explanation and when it becomes clear it was a family member staying in the property they will more than likely assume you got the remainder in cash and still charge you tax on the full €800.

    If you decide to deregister the property with the PRTB and rent it "off the books" so to speak, revenue will come looking for an explanation as to what you're doing with the property. If you can't offer a proper explanation, again you'll be charged tax on the full €800.

    Honestly the best advice in this situation is do not rent to the family member unless you charge them full rent and everything is above board.


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    #40
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,707 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    ....... wrote: »
    And thats great, and youre great.

    But when a family member ISNT so great, then its much much harder to do anything about it, because they are family.

    Theres no point in burying heads in the sand, anyone might stop paying the rent. The issue is far worse when the anyone is a family member.

    People are presenting it as a gilt-edged guarantee that renting to family will result in issues - "Never rent to a family member", "There will be a row further down the line".

    I accept that I have skin in this game but it's unfair and untrue to suggest that blanket rules apply.


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    #41
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭Fian


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    People are presenting it as a gilt-edged guarantee that renting to family will result in issues - "Never rent to a family member", "There will be a row further down the line".

    I accept that I have skin in this game but it's unfair and untrue to suggest that blanket rules apply.

    Well even if no row ensues - the scenario discussed here is renting about €350 below the RPZ permitted rent. €800pm + the permissible increase (which I am assuming would only be a 5% increase of €50) Which itself is a reason to be wary of renting to family.

    Most tenants do not like their landlords, most people resent paying rent to them every month. Which is understandable, especially as the landlord generally has at least 2 properties and the tenant frequently wants to but hasn't yet been able to purchase their first.


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    #42
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,348 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Fian wrote: »
    Most tenants do not like their landlords, most people resent paying rent to them every month. Which is understandable, especially as the landlord generally has at least 2 properties and the tenant frequently wants to but hasn't yet been able to purchase their first.

    That's utterly ridiculous. I have never heard anyone I know who is renting express any "resentment" at paying for a service. There is anger when LandLords take the piss, but that's completely reasonable.


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    #43
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    rent them a room in the apt rather then the whole apt?


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    #44
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Fian wrote: »
    Most tenants do not like their landlords, most people resent paying rent to them every month. Which is understandable, especially as the landlord generally has at least 2 properties and the tenant frequently wants to but hasn't yet been able to purchase their first.

    Most people do not hold resentment for paying for a service they receive.

    Thats like saying most people resent LIDL because they have to pay for their shopping there.

    And how would a tenant know how many properties a landlord has?


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    #45
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭Fian


    ....... wrote: »
    Most people do not hold resentment for paying for a service they receive.

    Thats like saying most people resent LIDL because they have to pay for their shopping there.

    And how would a tenant know how many properties a landlord has?


    Fine, I hear enough people grumbling about the cost of rent to imagine most tenants resent paying it, but maybe I am entirely imagining that and jumping to conclusions. Perhaps the vast majority of tenants are entirely happy with the rents they are being charged and the RPZs were entirely unecessary.

    When I referred to two properties - if I was renting off somebody I would assume they owned the place I was renting and owned a second property they lived in themselves - therefore that they owned at least two properties. But again, perhaps I am just prone to jumping to conclusions.

    Having said that maybe "most tenants do not like their landlords" was a bit over the top.


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    #46
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,849 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Are the rules different for holiday accommodation? Would something like that work?


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    #47
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    OP just be clear your giving 3600 to this relative. .. I think we might be related. Let me know when your other relation has moved out.. remember no good deed goes unpunished


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    #48
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,584 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    ....... wrote: »
    Terrible idea to do business with family in general.

    Always subject to the "ah shure you cant kick uncle mickey out when he is down on his uppers!!".

    The history of litigation between family members and legal challenges to wills would bear out the facts that family screw each other over as often as anyone else, but in fact, the effects are worse because everybody else gets involved.

    Business is business and family is family. Never the twain do mix.

    If the OP wants to help his family member he would be better off renting the property to someone for 800 euro and then giving the family member 300 euro cash per month towards their own rent elsewhere.

    Not sure how to help the OP but I'm with Nox on this one. Families " do business" within the family group all the time and in general get along with things perfectly fine. The same as for wills etc. These types of transactions are extremely common and of course like a lot of other things in life you only hear about the ones that happen with negative consequences which in my experience is a very small percentage of cases, a lot less percentage wise than non family transactions.


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    #49
    The Phantom Jipper
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭The Phantom Jipper


    mickmac76 wrote: »
    Wow thanks for all the replies so far. Far faster than I thought. Unfortunately I can't do a rent a room scheme to them as I don't live there any more. I'm living with my parents due to an illness and my parents get carers allowance for looking after me and revenue know all this as I'm registered as living with them both with the revenue commissionars and social security but thanks for the idea.

    Not to be poking my nose into your business but your situation with the illness sounds quite challenging. It sounds like the money may be better in your pocket than your relative's? Personally I wouldn't be asking an ill relative to subsidise my accomodation and you're well within your rights to say no if you dont fancy being down 3.5k and the headache of being a landlord to a family member.


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    #50
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    kippy wrote: »
    Not sure how to help the OP but I'm with Nox on this one. Families " do business" within the family group all the time and in general get along with things perfectly fine. The same as for wills etc. These types of transactions are extremely common and of course like a lot of other things in life you only hear about the ones that happen with negative consequences which in my experience is a very small percentage of cases, a lot less percentage wise than non family transactions.

    And again, I dont disagree, but you have spectacularly missed the point.

    No one is suggesting that ALL family transactions/business go wrong - which is what you seem to assume?

    Its when there IS a problem that it is vastly magnified if the problem tenant is a family member.

    Ive no idea where you are getting your percentages from, or even how they are relevant. The point still stands that if a problem arises, its easier to manage it with a non family member than a family member.


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