Dafuq is this bollox?

Omackeral

mad muffin wrote: »

addicts are people

Apologies for quoting you out of context OP but the above is something that a lot of folks would do well to remember.

Feisar

Society will always have a certain level of natural attrition, thems the breaks. The focus should be on keeping the wastage away from the rest of us.

skooterblue2

dudara wrote: »

Can you evidence that? I’ve read articles and books that outline the positives of the approach. It would be good to read some other findings. Not being smart here, this is a genuine request.

I have read the same books and articles you have read too (Probably). I have not been impressed that they have solved the problem. There is no transition to detox and rehabilitation. All these Good-Two shoes and SJW and Advocates all live in upper class areas of the city or country that never sees these addicts. They are like seagulls, they come in make some noise, fly around and then go back to their nice homes. They dont wake up with this scum in their door way. They come for photo oppertunities, college presentation and charity night. They dont live here like the rest of us.

SimonTemplar

I'd also like to see the state providing drugs to the addicts too. I know it isn't an ideal situation but nothing about drug addiction is ideal.

At least it would cut down on addicts robbing people and businesses to fund their habbit, and the drug gangs would loose some of their power.

Odhinn

mad muffin wrote: »

This soft cûnt approach shît will never solve the problem.

Are drugs legal? No.

Are the junkies contributing to society in any meaningful way? No

Round them up detox them. Send them off to be a contributing member to society. If they relapse exile them to some island.

Also get the drug dealers and send them to these detox camps to see what they are causing, and get them to clean up the junkies shît and puke.

Well reasoned and mature argument. I can see you've put much thought into this.

corner of hells

mad muffin wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/first-ever-state-funded-heroin-injection-centre-will-cater-for-60-addicts-a-day-878351.html

I thought drugs where illegal? Why are they spending all this money to enable drug users, instead of focusing their money and effort to get them off it?

Come bring your own drugs and shoot up… it’s grand…

Any why do they always insist on having these kind of facilities in built up areas?

No one wants to see drugged up addicts roaming their streets like fûcking scummy zombies.

I’m all for helping them out to get off the blasted thing but not to enabling them.

The process behind it is called "Harm Reduction" , it works
I worked for MQI for a few years , they keep people alive.

Odhinn

skooterblue2 wrote: »

No I dont but common sense w(...........) away.

Then why are you stating it?

skooterblue2

Odhinn wrote: »

Then why are you stating it?

Because Drug addicts dont dissappear over night. This is being sold as magical solution. Easily known you arent from one of these poorer inner city areas or work up against them.

There are no voices of dissension from the residents. That is also a worrying marker. I was up at Indaver Ireland on a tour a few weeks back and there was plenty of local dissent about that. I would rather a massive incinerator on my doorstep than the place crawling with junkie scum.

Franz Von Peppercorn

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I have read the same books and articles you have read too (Probably). I have not been impressed that they have solved the problem. There is no transition to detox and rehabilitation. All these Good-Two shoes and SJW and Advocates all live in upper class areas of the city or country that never sees these addicts. They are like seagulls, they come in make some noise, fly around and then go back to their nice homes. They dont wake up with this scum in their door way. They come for photo oppertunities, college presentation and charity night. They dont live here like the rest of us.

That’s the premise of this book.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poverty-Safari-Darren-McGarvey/dp/1912147033/ref=nodl_

skooterblue2

corner of hells wrote: »

The process behind it is called "Harm Reduction" , it works
I worked for MQI for a few years , they keep people alive.

Keeps people alive or keeps addicts enabled? Big difference.

mad muffin

Odhinn wrote: »

Well reasoned and mature argument. I can see you've put much thought into this.

I was having a Kanye moment?

mad muffin

mad muffin wrote: »

Oh here we go… the bleedin lefties are out in force… :rolleyes:

Round them up into boot camps and detox the **** out of them. They’ll be much better for it and happier.

Sure they won’t be happy going in but they will definitely be happy coming out the other side.

See. This is the misunderstanding. People take heroin because they have a **** life. If you grow up with no prospects. The relief from doing heroin takes you away from the misery of your day to day life. You detox but then go back to no job, no home, no life and it's very easy to slip back to heroin. Drug addiction is a social and public health problem rather than a criminal one. The wheel has to be reinvented. The war on drugs stopped and a policy similar to Portugal developed.

hetuzozaho

skooterblue2 wrote: »

What is the difference between these clinics and 1880's Opium dens in China? Heroin is a powerful weapon to break the west. Much the same as the British used to destroy China. Stamp it out hard and fast.

An opium den would be more akin to a modern day pub/bar.

These centres would be more interested in an end goal of helping addicts to stop using. Very different to a pu/bar in that sense.

skooterblue2

Deleted User wrote: »

See. This is the misunderstanding. People take heroin because they have a **** life. If you grow up with no prospects. The relief from doing heroin takes you away from the misery of your day to day life. You detox but then go back to no job, no home, no life and it's very easy to slip back to heroin. Drug addiction is a social and public health problem rather than a criminal one. The wheel has to be reinvented. The war on drugs stopped and a policy similar to Portugal developed.

Thats a load of bollocks. I grew up in an area of high unemployment, in an unemployed household. I went to the worst school in the area because we couldnt afford to get the bus into the city. I still applied and got onto college (STEM) without a diagnosis of HFA, Qualified and live a productive life in stable relationship. All while other dopes around me did drugs at college and failed. I never used drugs or have been curious about them.

So, that holds no water with me. I despise illegal drug use. Heck I avoid going to the see the Quack (Doctor), if I can. You also know they take a strong disposition to illegal drugs in the UAE and have a low crime rate?

corner of hells

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Keeps people alive or keeps addicts enabled? Big difference.

In that building on the quays , a multitude of services of provided not solely for addicts , everything from medical , dental services , info and advocacy , showers , basic food as well as supporting addicts.

The basis of harm reduction is keeping people safe .
Absolutely nothing to do with enabling an addict.

hetuzozaho

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Thats a load of bollocks. I grew up in an area of high unemployment, in an unemployed household. I went to the worst school in the area because we couldnt afford to get the bus into the city. I still applied and got onto college (STEM) without a diagnosis of HFA, Qualified and live a productive life in stable relationship. All while other dopes around me did drugs at college and failed. I never used drugs or have been curious about them.

So, that holds no water with me. I despise illegal drug use. Heck I avoid going to the see the Quack (Doctor), if I can. You also know they take a strong disposition to illegal drugs in the UAE and have a low crime rate?

Ah you should read up on it more if you are interested in it.

I grew up in similar situation to you, but I realise that many factors made me who I am. And luckily made me not to go down those paths. Nobody aspires to be an addict.

There's a lot of research from many experts in the field and it makes for some interesting reading. And the facts and studies support the opposite of your, its all a load of bollocks, assertion.

skooterblue2

corner of hells wrote: »

The basis of harm reduction is keeping people safe .
Absolutely nothing to do with enabling an addict.

Keeping who safe from whom? Many Addicts have hepatitis C, HIV and what not. Dont get me started on the price of disposing of needles (€90 a litre years ago). Then there is the Bio Hazzard clean ups. They are filthy and its not fair to have them thrust upon the public. Why are we encouraging this behaviour?

skooterblue2

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I grew up in similar situation to you, but I realise that many factors made me who I am. And luckily made me not to go down those paths. Nobody aspires to be an addict.

I saw Trainspotting when I was 15 and again at 22 (I was a late bloomer). One look at that should scare the crap out of any teenager not to get involved in drugs (my favourite scene is Renton is the filthiest toilet in Edinburgh). That sorted all my interests in taking drugs.

corner of hells

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Keeping who safe from whom? Many Addicts have hepatitis C, HIV and what not. Dont get me started on the price of disposing of needles (€90 a litre years ago). Then there is the Bio Hazzard clean ups. They are filthy and its not fair to have them thrust upon the public. Why are we encouraging this behaviour?

The idea behind needle exchanges / injection centres is prevention of blood bornes diseases .It's to encourage IV users to use clean parphenalia and not share.Thats what keeping people safe means.

skooterblue2

corner of hells wrote: »

The idea behind needle exchanges / injection centres is prevention of blood bornes diseases .It's to encourage IV users to use clean parphenalia and not share.Thats what keeping people safe means.

What about the innocent people who want nothing to do with Drug users? Dont they have a right to be kept safe from them? When I lived down in Waterford I used to cut across the park to go to college and had the pleasure of wondering what those disposable spoons were. What about my rights? Drug addicts dont care about clean needles or needle exchange all they care about is drugs. Why do I have to put up with that?

hetuzozaho

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I saw Trainspotting when I was 15 and again at 22 (I was a late bloomer). One look at that should scare the crap out of any teenager not to get involved in drugs (my favourite scene is Renton is the filthiest toilet in Edinburgh). That sorted all my interests in taking drugs.

I love that movie.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on it's potential uses. Have a good one dude.

Dyr

mad muffin wrote: »

Also a lot of the addicts are people who had ordinary, normal lives who got addicted to prescription pain killers and turned to heroine after the prescription ran out.

Now they are homeless and destitute. The last thing they need or want is a “safe ” place to shoot up. They would rather get off the drugs and be pain free.

A lot of the junkies I knew were scumbags long before they were junkies, not all, but a lot.

I'd be happier to see us treating heroin as seriously as the government did foot and mouth, emphasis on making damn sure its contained and those who would spread it are taking out of circulation

Pauliedragon

These rooms have had success in various parts of the world, reducing OD's, less needles on the streets, referals to treatment facilitirs etc.
https://adf.org.au/insights/medically-supervised-injecting-centres/

corner of hells

skooterblue2 wrote: »

What about the innocent people who want nothing to do with Drug users? Dont they have a right to be kept safe from them? When I lived down in Waterford I used to cut across the park to go to college and had the pleasure of wondering what those disposable spoons were. What about my rights? Drug addicts dont care about clean needles or needle exchange all they care about is drugs. Why do I have to put up with that?

Of course you have a right to be safe and you don't have to put up with that behavior , at the moment it's about the best option.

I don't condone the bad behavior of addicts that you highlight , but you yourself seen some of the suggestions here , right now it what's available.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

mad muffin wrote: »

Like I said. Spend the money and effort to get them off the stuff in the first place. Hiding them in a “safe” place isn’t going to fix the problem.

It’s not like they won’t be on the street drugged up anyway.

Shoot up… off you go. NEXT!

A blinkered view. You obviously have put no thought into your ramblings in any way shape or form. Would you favor Duterte's approach?

mad muffin wrote: »

Also a lot of the addicts are people who had ordinary, normal lives who got addicted to prescription pain killers and turned to heroine after the prescription ran out.

Now they are homeless and destitute. The last thing they need or want is a “safe ” place to shoot up. They would rather get off the drugs and be pain free.

I'd say that you are the last person to know what they need or want...

skooterblue2

Pauliedragon wrote: »

These rooms have had success in various parts of the world, reducing OD's, less needles on the streets, referals to treatment facilitirs etc.
https://adf.org.au/insights/medically-supervised-injecting-centres/

Define success......
Mine would be lower addiction rates, faster rehabilitation schemes, higher participation in education, community service .......that is never going to happen is it?

I wonder how the Chinese broke their Opium addiction trade? There are no benefits to propagating this lifestyle choice

mad muffin

Cristian Fit Lumbar wrote: »

A blinkered view. You obviously have put no thought into your ramblings in any way shape or form. Would you favor Duterte's approach?



I'd say that you are the last person to know what they need or want...

Actually… As a former addict I might know a thing or two

Not heroine, but drug addict none the less.

SEPT 23 1989

What you see on the streets today is not pure smack it tablets from our home grown pharmaceuticals

skooterblue2

corner of hells wrote: »

.... at the moment it's about the best option.

I don't condone the bad behavior of addicts that you highlight , but you yourself seen some of the suggestions here , right now it what's available.

"At the same time, pressure was placed on the dealers. Those who surrendered were accepted by the community, re-educated, trained for meaningful work and given jobs. The rest were packed off to prison, and the worst offenders were executed. By 1956, the People's Republic of China had virtually eliminated its drug problem."

http://www.sacu.org/opium.html


I like to think of the Communist Peoples Party idea of "re-education" rather than sending drug dealers and addicts to FAS for a 6 month course. Spike Island is supposed to be nice this time of year.

corner of hells

mad muffin wrote: »

Actually… As a former addict I might know a thing or two

Not heroine, but drug addict none the less.

So you know what's involved in getting an appropriate treatment ? Medical or therapeutic ? Aftercare too ?

mad muffin

corner of hells wrote: »

So you know what's involved in getting an appropriate treatment ? Medical or therapeutic ? Aftercare too ?

Actually I went cold turkey.

Try_harder

The scheme works well in Portugal

corner of hells

skooterblue2 wrote: »

"At the same time, pressure was placed on the dealers. Those who surrendered were accepted by the community, re-educated, trained for meaningful work and given jobs. The rest were packed off to prison, and the worst offenders were executed. By 1956, the People's Republic of China had virtually eliminated its drug problem."

http://www.sacu.org/opium.html


I like to think of the Communist Peoples Party idea of "re-education" rather than sending drug dealers and addicts to FAS for a 6 month course. Spike Island is supposed to be nice this time of year.

I struggle to " cut and paste" but I'm going to try .

"By the end of 2017, there were 2,553,000 known drug addicts in China, a growth of 1.9 per cent year-on-year. Those aged 18-35 made up 55.6 per cent of that population, with the 36-59 age group a further 43 per cent."


THIS CONTENT IS PRODUCED AND PUBLISHED BY CHINA DAILY, PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA, WHICH TAKES SOLE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ITS CONTENTS

skooterblue2

Try_harder wrote: »

The scheme works well in Portugal

Define well? has it reduced the number of addicts? rehabilitated addicts etc etc?
IT has just moved them indoors.

enough of this Namby Pamby wet nurse approach. Take a leaf out of the Chinese book and deal with it head on like they did in the 1990's in New York under Guiliani and Thimony did and take the battle to the drug dealers and addicts

corner of hells

mad muffin wrote: »

Actually I went cold turkey.

I wonder from what.

skooterblue2

corner of hells wrote: »

I struggle to " cut and paste" but I'm going to try .

"By the end of 2017, there were 2,553,000 known drug addicts in China, a growth of 1.9 per cent year-on-year. Those aged 18-35 made up 55.6 per cent of that population, with the 36-59 age group a further 43 per cent."


THIS CONTENT IS PRODUCED AND PUBLISHED BY CHINA DAILY, PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA, WHICH TAKES SOLE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ITS CONTENTS

That is why you have to keep up the war on drugs. find them question them and process the information and re-educate them. That is how you get stuff done.

mad muffin

corner of hells wrote: »

I wonder from what.

Nicotine. I was a smoker for twenty years. Haven’t smoked for almost 8 years now.

skooterblue2

mad muffin wrote: »

Nicotine. I was a smoker for twenty years. Haven’t smoked for almost 8 years now.

They say the fags are as hard an addiction to break as heroin.

mad muffin

skooterblue2 wrote: »

They say the fags are as hard an addiction to break as heroin.

They truly are.

mad muffin

mad muffin wrote: »

Nicotine. I was a smoker for twenty years. Haven’t smoked for almost 8 years now.

are you comparing nicotine to herion? Is this real life?

Pretzill

In my view methadone has been a disaster in getting heroin addicts off. It just keeps them in a state of drug and enables them to seek more. Now this, a place to inject in a sanitary environment, to make the addiction a little less unhealthy.

We need zero tolerance on all class A drugs and lots of padded rooms for cold turkey - it isn't easy to quit but it's a far better option than prolonging the inevitable and endorsing one of the world's nastiest crimes, drug lords, gun gangsters, trafficking, murder and all the despicable **** that comes from drug culture.

degsie

So most posters here would be quite happy to live next door to a facility like this?

skooterblue2

Ryann Tender SportswomanMGS wrote: »

are you comparing nicotine to herion? Is this real life?

There are over 2000 different chemicals in Cigarette filters including Toluene and loads of other nasty compounds. It is well recognised as a hard addiction to break. As tough as Heroin.

skooterblue2

degsie wrote: »

So most posters here would be quite happy to live next door to a facility like this?

F^&K NO!!! I wouldnt even go to my politician about it. I would have them run out of town. The ones that tell you its progressive havent been within an asses roar of these mucky puppies.

Sofiztikated

Pretzill wrote: »

In my view methadone has been a disaster in getting heroin addicts off. It just keeps them in a state of drug and enables them to seek more. Now this, a place to inject in a sanitary environment, to make the addiction a little less unhealthy.

We need zero tolerance on all class A drugs and lots of padded rooms for cold turkey - it isn't easy to quit but it's a far better option than prolonging the inevitable and endorsing one of the world's nastiest crimes, drug lords, gun gangsters, trafficking, murder and all the despicable **** that comes from drug culture.

It's also dangerous, alcohol, benzo and opiate withdrawal from cold turkey can kill.

skooterblue2

Sofiztikated wrote: »

It's also dangerous, alcohol, benzo and opiate withdrawal from cold turkey can kill.

That is the risk you take

circadian

Once people realise that drugs have won the war on drugs we'll actually be able to deal with the problem.

Pretzill

Sofiztikated wrote: »

It's also dangerous, alcohol, benzo and opiate withdrawal from cold turkey can kill.

So can prolonged use and the high chance of overdose? Merchants quay and its like make a good living from the fallout of drugs. People need to face up to withdrawl as a positive, life changing option. Those experimenting with any drugs should be given an education on the suffering, criminality and pain caused by the manufacture and sale of illegal drugs.

I'd rather see someone suffering getting themselves clean than hear another sordid, sorry story of young women being trafficked as sex slaves or any other of the sick vices that accompany the drug trade.

corner of hells

Sofiztikated wrote: »

It's also dangerous, alcohol, benzo and opiate withdrawal from cold turkey can kill.

I've worked in drug services for a while and low threshold services with addicts , you are at risk of death from detox from alcohol or benzos and I've seen people going into shock, convulsions, fits but I've never heard of any documetated case of anyone dying from opiate withdrawal.

I know one guy who had an aneurism while in treatment and died.

I suppose you could possibly die during cold turkey from untreated diarrhea and dehydration

corner of hells

Pretzill wrote: »

So can prolonged use and the high chance of overdose? Merchants quay and its like make a good living from the fallout of drugs. People need to face up to withdrawl as a positive, life changing option. Those experimenting with any drugs should be given an education on the suffering, criminality and pain caused by the manufacture and sale of illegal drugs.

I'd rather see someone suffering getting themselves clean than hear another sordid, sorry story of young women being trafficked as sex slaves or any other of the sick vices that accompany the drug trade.

Withdrawal from heroin or methadone ?