Sisters wanting sites

K.G.

Coolfresian wrote: »

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The solution to all the issues raised in this thread is to ban the building of unnecessary houses on agricultural land. No more farms, or families, split up, simple.

Absolutely, we talk about the environment, green image of the Irish countryside and carbon footprint. One off houses serve to promote none of these. If one off houses continue to be built many countryside lanes and roads will look like a housing estate. Leaving emotion out of it, if not involved in agriculture, does it make sense to build away from services in the local town or village?

carefull now if we carry onthis type of thinking we will come to the nub of the whole issue.money.for example uf the council slapped a planning charge of 100k on each house out the country would they want to build there probaly not but a site is really just another check.site value in the short term and long term potential value.is it really healthy for a family to live close to each other.then move it on the next generation where does it stop.

Mooooo

Local needs is getting stricter anyway, just because a parent owned the site doesn't guarantee planning anymore depending on the county etc. Every situation is different. Asking others opinion is all well and good but decisions have to be made and once they are accept it and move on.

Tell me how

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Hang on a second. How is it you think you're making a call on a decision like this? Sure it's not even your land, you only married in there!:mad:

I honestly can't tell if this is genuine or sarcasm...

spurious

The clue is in the name 'family farm'. Not 'oldest or favourite child farm'.

Split evenly or come to an arrangement where whoever gets the biggest part compensates the others.

I know a family squabbling for years over a scabby bit of land that by the time it is finished will have to be sold to pay for all the solicitors.

irishman86

I dont know about ye but i look forward going to war for the family farm.
In our house its the favourites(girls) lined up to inherit but just cause they are dicks ill go out of my way to ruin it for them
Dont want a penny from them, anything that comes my way will be handed to the black sheep of our house just to annoy the others even more :pac:

lakill Farm

I wonder how many farms don't actually have a suitable site left due to numerous reasons.

We had 1 and I build on it for a separate business purpose. The other 3 or 4 remaining sites are not suitable due to land conditions and or line of sights

The funny thing is the FIL had a full blown fall out with me for building on that site . Said we should have kept it for a then expectant baby. FIL didn't even hand it over to us, the land was bought by us.

Pixel Eater

TPF2012 wrote: »

I don't know about your local town or village but there is limited "services" in my local villages. Internet no better, piddly shop, one bar, no Post Office, no doctor. The graveyard is there so it would be a short spin to put me under but other than that I cant see the benefits. Maybe rural Ireland should die and be let empty to the frogs and nettles just like An Taisce want??

Maybe there would be a post office, doctor and generally more shops and services if more people actually lived there rather than being scattered all over the countryside in one-off houses.

lakill Farm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Maybe there would be a post office, doctor and generally more shops and services if more people actually lived there rather than being scattered all over the countryside in one-off houses.

Was the countryside not a lot more populated years ago compared to now?

Where my dad is from , the 4 houses over 1 mile has something like 43 kids between them. Same 4 houses next generation had zero offspring .

Gravelly

I grew up on a farm, which was left to my oldest brother (who was the only one interested in a career in farming anyway!). When it was handed over (more than 20 years ago), we were all taken aside and asked if we wanted a site - we were told we should only take one if we really needed it. I already owned a house at that stage, as did two of my siblings, so we didn't take one. One of my sisters was renting, and she took one and lives on it to this day. I felt then, and still do now, that this was the fairest way, and left nobody bitter. My parents helped all of us out, and made sure we were well educated.

TheBoyConor

lakill Farm wrote: »

Was the countryside not a lot more populated years ago compared to now?

Where my dad is from , the 4 houses over 1 mile has something like 43 kids between them. Same 4 houses next generation had zero offspring .

And that's what cause the famine. The country was overpopulated. On our farm there were at least 2 other houses pre-famine that I know of where no trace remains. My father found a few skeletons when removing a ditch that were determined to be from famine times.

Rural over population now would be far, far more damaging than back in those days because back then they were born, raised, lived in destitute misery, starved, married and died within the same square mile. Nowadays it's all McMansions, SUVs, ferrying spoilt little brats of children to endless "activities" and so on. Completely unsustainable.

Anyway, on my family farm I don't know what will happen. My sister is already sorted having taken on an out farm. One brother is interested in farming but cannot do so as he emigrated, married a foreigner and is childered over there. Other brother has 0 interest in actual farming, as do I. I see one of three outcomes :
1. Farm is left between us leased out and we split the rent.
2. it's left between us and the favourite brother buys us out and either leases it out.
3. farm is sold and proceeds are split 3 ways.

In all of the above, someone might have their share covered by holding on to the house.

The chances of someone actually taking it over to run a farm are slim to none. It's been leased already for 15 years and has been de-asseted in terms of facilities and equipment and farming knowledge and it would be financially impossible (let alone make any economic sense) to re-establish the enterprise. Plus we all have good jobs and see no attraction in breaking our holes in the rain and muck for less than minimum wage.

Pixel Eater

lakill Farm wrote: »

Was the countryside not a lot more populated years ago compared to now?

Where my dad is from , the 4 houses over 1 mile has something like 43 kids between them. Same 4 houses next generation had zero offspring .

Well I can't speak of that particular stretch of road but there has been a massive proliferation of one-off houses over the last 15-20 years and Ireland would have one of the highest percentages of rural dwellers in Europe.


P.s 43 children in 4 houses?! Jaysus.

Coolfresian

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Maybe there would be a post office, doctor and generally more shops and services if more people actually lived there rather than being scattered all over the countryside in one-off houses.

Exactly my point. Waste management and treatment, water schemes, broadband etc, all services made efficiently and rejuvenate villages and many towns. Despite what ppl claim, one off housing in a field does nothing to bring services to an area

K.G.

id like to welcome the recent avid posters on this farming thread and look foward to yer contributions in relation to farming matters in the future🀔

This thread has prompted me that I should have a conversation with my dad and sisters.

I have taken a site and expect to inherit the rest when the time comes.
One sister has expressly said she wants a site at some point but nothing has been done (as far as I know) about it.

Now is probably the time to discuss it while my father is still fit and able.

It came up at a very high level in the past when my other sister expressed an interest in building on the site I eventually built on. The problem is that while we have lots of road frontage most of it isn't feasible or desirable.

Panch18

I keep seeing that the husband is selfish and greedy because he feels he’s entitled to the farm

Yet people totally fail to recognise that the sisters are being greedy by refusing the offer of money instead of a site - that’s where the greed is

A couple of things I would note for the original poster
1) the majority of people who posted here are living in a la la land where everything is rosy and everybody is so loving and caring of their siblings. The reality is that none of these people are living with their siblings on their doorstep 24-7 and have absolutely no idea of the problems it can bring
2) it seems clear to me that if all 3 sisters are suddenly looking for a site that they have had a little get together to make a plan, be very careful it’s only the sites they are looking for
3)if your husband have any doubts whatsoever about the sisters husbands, which you seemed to have previously, then your husband needs to make sure that they don’t get a site. I have seen it many times where a person marries into a farm, usually not from a farming background, and creates all kinds of hastle and trouble for the farm. And remember this trouble is then on your doorstep 24-7
4) even if the sisters and husbands are all great what are the chances of all 3 staying there forever. Chances are 1, or more, of the houses will be sold in time, again this can be a major pain in the ass and cause plenty of trouble for you in the future

Mooooo

TheBoyConor wrote: »

And that's what cause the famine. The country was overpopulated. On our farm there were at least 2 other houses pre-famine that I know of where no trace remains. My father found a few skeletons when removing a ditch that were determined to be from famine times.

Rural over population now would be far, far more damaging than back in those days because back then they were born, raised, lived in destitute misery, starved, married and died within the same square mile. Nowadays it's all McMansions, SUVs, ferrying spoilt little brats of children to endless "activities" and so on. Completely unsustainable.

Anyway, on my family farm I don't know what will happen. My sister is already sorted having taken on an out farm. One brother is interested in farming but cannot do so as he emigrated, married a foreigner and is childered over there. Other brother has 0 interest in actual farming, as do I. I see one of three outcomes :
1. Farm is left between us leased out and we split the rent.
2. it's left between us and the favourite brother buys us out and either leases it out.
3. farm is sold and proceeds are split 3 ways.

In all of the above, someone might have their share covered by holding on to the house.

The chances of someone actually taking it over to run a farm are slim to none. It's been leased already for 15 years and has been de-asseted in terms of facilities and equipment and farming knowledge and it would be financially impossible (let alone make any economic sense) to re-establish the enterprise. Plus we all have good jobs and see no attraction in breaking our holes in the rain and muck for less than minimum wage.

Many people forget option 4, rare as it may be. Parents, ie current owners, sell the lot and enjoy the proceeds in their retirement

Panch18

One thing that should jump out to the farmers on this thread is just how far farming has fallen behind the rest of society in the last 20 years.

In the 80 or 90’s if you gave a kid a college education you gave them a massive head start in life, they could get a good job and be better off than most going forward. Or at least they started from a good position

Nowadays every jackass is going to college so instead of setting the other kids up for life as it used to, now it’s just the bare minimum that you have to give them.

The thing is that I would say most farmers would struggle to 3rd level educate all of their kids nowadays, the income just isn’t there, despite the fact that families are smaller nowadays

Farming is finished

memorystick

In most cases, families are better living apart if they want to get on. Distance is good.

Martina1991

Eric Cartman wrote:

Now not making assumptions in this case , but usually the son would have worked the farm all his life while the daughters went off to college / pursued careers outside the farm, its a mix of tradition and probably sexism on behalf of the parents not involving the daughters in the family farm, not too fair but were it the case that I was the sibling who stayed at home and tended the farm all my life , siblings who had never done a tap demanding land would piss me off.

^ ^ ^ ^
This resonated big time with me.

My father has 4 older sisters. When my granny was pregnant with my dad she prayed and prayed and prayed to St. Martin for a boy to pass on the farm to.

My father was indeed a boy, christened Martin, and inherited the farm.

They then had another boy just to be sure!

I'm the oldest child now but the land will go to my younger brother (whether he wants it or not).
My sister and I have always been told we can buy a site off them if we want.

Alrigghtythen

Martina1991 wrote: »

^ ^ ^ ^
This resonated big time with me.

My father has 4 older sisters. When my granny was pregnant with my dad she prayed and prayed and prayed to St. Martin for a boy to pass on the farm to.

My father was indeed a boy, christened Martin, and inherited the farm.

They then had another boy just to be sure!

I'm the oldest child now but the land will go to my younger brother (whether he wants it or not).
My sister and I have always been told we can buy a site off them if we want.

Who's telling you you can buy a site off your younger brother if you want? Your parents?

What if your younger brother won't sell you a site?

Martina1991

Alrigghtythen wrote:

Who's telling you you can buy a site off your younger brother if you want? Your parents?

What if your younger brother won't sell you a site?

Well my parents are still alive and kicking. If i wanted a site they would be the ones to give it to me.

My brother is also sound.

alps

I have found this thread to be the most disturbing thread I've come across to date on boards.....genuinely not feeling well from some of what is written above...

liam7831

alps wrote:

I have found this thread to be the most disturbing thread I've come across to date on boards.....genuinely not feeling well from some of what is written above...

Get off the stage

Alrigghtythen

Martina1991 wrote: »

Well my parents are still alive and kicking. If i wanted a site they would be the ones to give it to me.

My brother is also sound.

Then why are they telling you to buy it off your younger brother if they are the ones that will be giving it to you?

Martina1991

Alrigghtythen wrote:

Then why are they telling you to buy it off your younger brother if they are the ones that will be giving it to you?

They're not telling me to do anything.
This is *if* anything happens to them and down the line i wanted a site.

Its irrelevant anyway as i live in another county.

Alrigghtythen

Martina1991 wrote: »

They're not telling me to do anything.
This is *if* anything happens to them and down the line i wanted a site.

Its irrelevant anyway as i live in another county.

Yes I get it is when your parents have retired and have handed over the farm to your younger brother.

He will then be the owner of the land.

You must consider then you might want a site and your younger brother may not want to sell you a site.

flatty

alps wrote: »

I have found this thread to be the most disturbing thread I've come across to date on boards.....genuinely not feeling well from some of what is written above...

It's sad and funny in equal turns.

Gael23

They are getting an acre, he’s getting 197 acres.
Things like this destroy families OP,. I don’t think they are asking for much.

Alrigghtythen

If the site is being sold to a sibling from the farm, should it be sold at agricultural or site value(if selling on condition of pp granted)?

Buford T. Justice XIX

liam7831 wrote: »

Get off the stage

Mod note: Easy now, that's not the way we discuss things here. Remain civil or don't post at all.


And that's a heads-up for everybody posting here, we have a very low tolerance for attacking the poster here.


Buford T. Justice.

Lady Haywire

alps wrote: »

I have found this thread to be the most disturbing thread I've come across to date on boards.....genuinely not feeling well from some of what is written above...

At least you're not a ploughed field :pac:

Stratvs

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If the site is being sold to a sibling from the farm, should it be sold at agricultural or site value(if selling on condition of pp granted)?

If PP is a condition then presumably it's not being sold as agricultural land but as development land.

lakill Farm

My dad is in his late 50s. Not 150

TheBoyConor wrote: »

And that's what cause the famine. The country was overpopulated. On our farm there were at least 2 other houses pre-famine that I know of where no trace remains. My father found a few skeletons when removing a ditch that were determined to be from famine times.

Rural over population now would be far, far more damaging than back in those days because back then they were born, raised, lived in destitute misery, starved, married and died within the same square mile. Nowadays it's all McMansions, SUVs, ferrying spoilt little brats of children to endless "activities" and so on. Completely unsustainable.

Anyway, on my family farm I don't know what will happen. My sister is already sorted having taken on an out farm. One brother is interested in farming but cannot do so as he emigrated, married a foreigner and is childered over there. Other brother has 0 interest in actual farming, as do I. I see one of three outcomes :
1. Farm is left between us leased out and we split the rent.
2. it's left between us and the favourite brother buys us out and either leases it out.
3. farm is sold and proceeds are split 3 ways.

In all of the above, someone might have their share covered by holding on to the house.

The chances of someone actually taking it over to run a farm are slim to none. It's been leased already for 15 years and has been de-asseted in terms of facilities and equipment and farming knowledge and it would be financially impossible (let alone make any economic sense) to re-establish the enterprise. Plus we all have good jobs and see no attraction in breaking our holes in the rain and muck for less than minimum wage.

Nekarsulm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Maybe there would be a post office, doctor and generally more shops and services if more people actually lived there rather than being scattered all over the countryside in one-off houses.

But Post Offices etc are not located in towns for the sole use of town dwellers.
You are using An Posts argument now.
Our local PO is to be closed, An Post claim its uneconomical because there are 'only" 46 houses left in the town.
But there are several hundred households scattered across 30 square miles that the PO serves.
And why do you think that rural dwellers don't use a shop or a doctor?

And to reply to another poster, who claims that all the one off houses and the lifestyle associated whit them is unsustainable, its sustainable untill oil runs out.
When that happens, living in a town won't be any better than living on an acre in the countryside.
The trucks bringing food to the shops wont be running for anyone.

Birdnuts

I miss the old days myself;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

Ginger83

Ah land.......the biggest cause of all feuds.

I met my wife 15yrs ago. She wanted to build on the family land so we asked her parents for a site. They said no. We offered to buy it. They said no. The land is being kept for the oldest son. My wife was very upset over it.

We moved to another county and don't speak to them. Its been 7yrs now with no contact, we're married now and they were not invited, we have kids they've never met and a beautiful home they've never set foot in. I was diagnosed with a terminal illness a few yrs ago, they are not involved and will be informed on the day of my funeral that they are not welcome at it.

They have their land, i hope it keeps them happy. It cost them a daughter, son in law and grandkids.

OP if your husbands decides to let greed get the better of him, one day he'll stand in a lonely field and realise....it was a poxy bit of grass.

Wildly Boaring

Ginger83 wrote: »

Ah land.......the biggest cause of all feuds.

I met my wife 15yrs ago. She wanted to build on the family land so we asked her parents for a site. They said no. We offered to buy it. They said no. The land is being kept for the oldest son. My wife was very upset over it.

We moved to another county and don't speak to them. Its been 7yrs now with no contact, we're married now and they were not invited, we have kids they've never met and a beautiful home they've never set foot in. I was diagnosed with a terminal illness a few yrs ago, they are not involved and will be informed on the day of my funeral that they are not welcome at it.

They have their land, i hope it keeps them happy. It cost them a daughter, son in law and grandkids.

OP if your husbands decides to let greed get the better of him, one day he'll stand in a lonely field and realise....it was a poxy bit of grass.

Jasus.
Ok I'm with you. And would have expected a site myself in her position.

But

It was a poxy bit of grass......

Could you not have got over it?

Ginger83

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Jasus.
Ok I'm with you. And would have expected a site myself in her position.

But

It was a poxy bit of grass......

Could you not have got over it?

As a parent now myself i believe all children are equal.

mf240

You'd think parents would be glad to have there family living nearby if it was possible.

Plenty of women are farming now and not just because they have no brothers but because they were interested in it.

Sure I think women are allowed to vote in some countries

Wildly Boaring

Ginger83 wrote: »

As a parent now myself i believe all children are equal.

As do I. As per my post I'm on your side regarding the site.

Just wondering could you not bury the hatchet? Takes one side to be the bigger man as such

lefthooker

I like the OP's husband have 3 sisters, all younger, college educated, currently abroad and never expressed an interest in farming.

I was farming at home for 10 years when my parents decided to transfer everything to me, including household bills and sizable farm debt. It was discreet with only the solicitor, my parents and I knowing. I'll admit I was initially overwhelmed with the thoughts of what was going to happen but the only sticking point was my parents (mainly my dads) desire to gift 3 sites to my sisters. Not that I disagreed with my sisters getting sites, more with the timing and location.

The sites were literally going to be in the milking parlour and at the time none of them were prepared or wanted to live at home, and the thoughts of them selling a site or house to a total outsider really rankled me. So the compromise I offered was if in years to come when hopefully I'd made a good go of this farming lark and my sisters came looking for a site to build on and live in I'd look after them.(They've also been accounted for in our parents wills).Thankfully the solicitor and my parents agreed with the proposal.

Now as I write this, I'm happy with my lot, engaged and building my own house. I know that there's a good chance they all won't return home and luckily I can say we all get on with our siblings partners so I think a site for my sisters shouldn't be a problem. A relationship with my sisters is more valuable than what would keep a few cows.

My parting shot, while I can see why the OP's husband might be raging, in my case and with his, land is not the most valuable commodity. It's good old fashioned common sense.

Pixel Eater

Nekarsulm wrote: »

But Post Offices etc are not located in towns for the sole use of town dwellers.
You are using An Posts argument now.
Our local PO is to be closed, An Post claim its uneconomical because there are 'only" 46 houses left in the town.
But there are several hundred households scattered across 30 square miles that the PO serves.
And why do you think that rural dwellers don't use a shop or a doctor?

And to reply to another poster, who claims that all the one off houses and the lifestyle associated whit them is unsustainable, its sustainable untill oil runs out.
When that happens, living in a town won't be any better than living on an acre in the countryside.
The trucks bringing food to the shops wont be running for anyone.

And An Post have a point though A postman can drive a mile in a town and deliver post to maybe 60/70 plus houses. In the countryside he (or she) may call to maybe only 4 or 5 in the same distance and probably have drive up a long lane to get to some of them too; that's a lot of time, effort and petrol and not very productive. It's completely unsustainable and contributed to their closure.

People would use their local shops/cafes/pubs a lot more if they could walk there and not have to drive everywhere.

fepper

Ginger83 wrote: »

Ah land.......the biggest cause of all feuds.

I met my wife 15yrs ago. She wanted to build on the family land so we asked her parents for a site. They said no. We offered to buy it. They said no. The land is being kept for the oldest son. My wife was very upset over it.

We moved to another county and don't speak to them. Its been 7yrs now with no contact, we're married now and they were not invited, we have kids they've never met and a beautiful home they've never set foot in. I was diagnosed with a terminal illness a few yrs ago, they are not involved and will be informed on the day of my funeral that they are not welcome at it.

They have their land, i hope it keeps them happy. It cost them a daughter, son in law and grandkids.

OP if your husbands decides to let greed get the better of him, one day he'll stand in a lonely field and realise....it was a poxy bit of grass.

You married their daughter so you should give them some praise...

Alrigghtythen

fepper wrote: »

You married their daughter so you should give them some praise...

A daughter they refused to live beside and banished from the area

Ginger83

fepper wrote: »

You married their daughter so you should give them some praise...

A daughter they thought nothing of.

This is Ireland, not China.

bfa1509

Ginger83 wrote: »

Ah land.......the biggest cause of all feuds.

I met my wife 15yrs ago. She wanted to build on the family land so we asked her parents for a site. They said no. We offered to buy it. They said no. The land is being kept for the oldest son. My wife was very upset over it.

We moved to another county and don't speak to them. Its been 7yrs now with no contact, we're married now and they were not invited, we have kids they've never met and a beautiful home they've never set foot in. I was diagnosed with a terminal illness a few yrs ago, they are not involved and will be informed on the day of my funeral that they are not welcome at it.

They have their land, i hope it keeps them happy. It cost them a daughter, son in law and grandkids.

OP if your husbands decides to let greed get the better of him, one day he'll stand in a lonely field and realise....it was a poxy bit of grass.

I really felt for you until I got to the 3rd paragraph where you started putting all of the blame on your in-laws. It is completely up to the parents to decide who should or should not inherit a plot of land. Your in-laws likely hold a more traditional approach where the son or daughter who intends on looking after the farm, gets the farm. Sounds like you excommunicated yourselves from your wife's family as you couldn't bring yourself to respect their decision.

I feel for you, but you are wrong to lay all of the blame on the parents. The previous generation will always be more stubborn than the next, you should account for this.

Ginger83

bfa1509 wrote: »

I really felt for you until I got to the 3rd paragraph where you started putting all of the blame on your in-laws. It is completely up to the parents to decide who should or should not inherit a plot of land. Your in-laws likely hold a more traditional approach where the son or daughter who intends on looking after the farm, gets the farm. Sounds like you excommunicated yourselves from your wife's family as you couldn't bring yourself to respect their decision.

I feel for you, but you are wrong to lay all of the blame on the parents. The previous generation will always be more stubborn that the next, you should account for this.

We had no choice but to accept their decision but my wife decided as they thought so little of her to have nothing to do with them. It was a corner of a field. It looked worse for them as we approached neighbours asking for a site.

Alrigghtythen

To reduce one off housing, Farmers should be made to live in the current farmhouse.

lefthooker

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

To reduce one off housing, Farmers should be made to live in the current farmhouse.

I'd love to agree with you but,
Two queens can't live in the one hive.

Simmental.

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

To reduce one off housing, Farmers should be made to live in the current farmhouse.

To reduce urban sprawl people living in urban areas should be made live in their parents current town house