social housing in upmarket estate

oceanman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Build it as a social housing project and don't say who'll go there , everyone clebrates hundreds of social housing being built, the first inkling they'd ever have of what its for is when the high security doors, anti vandal lighting , razor topped palisade fencing and the 200th CCTV camera went in. That and the acompanying 24 hour garda station with a 1 holding cell to 4 apartment ratio went in.

Like a kind of soft prison , give everyone a PO box somewhere without a crap address and a free bus to the nearest town if they can prove theyre going for work. If you make it 5 years continuously employed and without ending up infront of a judge then you get to go back to a nicer house.

Think of the relief that all the good working tenants in social housing would get , no more anti social nonsense, lower crime rates and a restored image of the decent people in the social housing system. The honest people in social housing would only see upsides to it. Would also move the heroin problem in dublin and the crack epidemic in tallaght away from hard working people, our tourists and children.

sorry..but I still couldn't see any government here going for it. probably work in more right wing countries though.

L1011

Realistically the policing costs would make it impossible from the off. There's a reason it doesn't actually work in the Netherlands - try find anything from after 2013 on them.

Eric Cartman

L1011 wrote: »

Realistically the policing costs would make it impossible from the off. There's a reason it doesn't actually work in the Netherlands - try find anything from after 2013 on them.

Says a lot about those kinds of people and peoples justified fears pf social housing so

El_Bee

My own anecdotal experience: about 12 years ago we had a really bad family move into our estate via social housing, the neighbors on either side of them complained and rang the Gardai on them constantly, eventually they were evicted (Absolutely destroying the house before they left), as the years passed, several of those families on that particular row moved out, a few of them selling their houses to the council apparently, and one by one more council tenants moved in, and where we are now is drug dealing, joyriding cars/scramblers, constant anti-social behaviour, dumping rubbish rather than pay bin charges etc. What bothers me the most is the range rovers, hilux's and various motorbikes in their driveways, they can afford these somehow but cant afford to pay their bins? Anyone my point is, when it's one bad family you can get them out eventually, but when it;s several you're swimming against dangerous tides.

BBFAN

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that a development where the housing are going for a million each that any will be going as social housing regardless of any new rules. The council couldn't afford to buy property in this price range. There must be a get out clause. Maybe the developer buys twice as many homes down the road for the council. The councils were very happy with the way things were before. They got 10 percent of development or the equivalent amount of housing up the road.

What is the new rule supposed to achieve? The council can't afford to but high end housing nor do they wont them

It's supposed to achieve a balance whereby all social housing is not in the same area.

But I speak from experience re: the rule because I worked for a developer who was building 34 high end houses in a rural location and there was absolutely NO way out of the social housing requirement.

Cyrus

BBFAN wrote: »

It's supposed to achieve a balance whereby all social housing is not in the same area.

But I speak from experience re: the rule because I worked for a developer who was building 34 high end houses in a rural location and there was absolutely NO way out of the social housing requirement.

Must be up to the local council then because that’s not the case in dlr

BBFAN

Cyrus wrote: »

Must be up to the local council then because that’s not the case in dlr

What's dlr?

Sleeper12

BBFAN wrote:

But I speak from experience re: the rule because I worked for a developer who was building 34 high end houses in a rural location and there was absolutely NO way out of the social housing requirement.

I disagree that there is no way out of it.

Let's say 34 houses at 600,000 each. 3 or 4 need to be made available to the council. The council can't afford to pay 600,000 for a house. They can't afford them even at a discount. It gets worse if you have 34 houses valued at a million. It's all well and good making these rules but if the council hasn't got the money what do you suppose will happen?

BBFAN

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I disagree that there is no way out of it.

Let's say 34 houses at 600,000 each. 3 or 4 need to be made available to the council. The council can't afford to pay 600,000 for a house. They can't afford them even at a discount. It gets worse if you have 34 houses valued at a million. It's all well and good making these rules but if the council hasn't got the money what do you suppose will happen?

Houses may be valued at 600k or a million, that doesn't mean that's what they cost.

Councils buy them at cost. I'm telling you, I've seen it in practice. The cost of government subsidies, taxes, social housing etc etc are built into the cost per square meter and then the developer adds his percentage on top, simple as that.

I'll try and find the document I had a time, it details the cost of building, huge amount of the cost is taxes and government subsidies.

Former Observer

Astonishing number of people in here looking down on people in social housing. Well here's me looking down on you.

Cyrus

BBFAN wrote: »

What's dlr?

Dun Laoghaire rathdown

Sleeper12

Former Observer wrote:

Astonishing number of people in here looking down on people in social housing. Well here's me looking down on you.

Totally agree. I'm in the poorest to the poshest homes on a daily basis. I could be in Darndale & an hour later in a house worth several million in Killiney.

There's good & bad in all areas. I would never judge someone on where they live or private /social housing. There are doctors & barristers who grew up in council homes.

Judging someone on where they live is identical to judging someone by the colour of their skin. It makes no sense whatsoever

4ensic15

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Totally agree. I'm in the poorest to the poshest homes on a daily basis. I could be in Darndale & an hour later in a house worth several million in Killiney.

There's good & bad in all areas. I would never judge someone on where they live or private /social housing. There are doctors & barristers who grew up in council homes.

Judging someone on where they live is identical to judging someone by the colour of their skin. It makes no sense whatsoever

How many barristers grew up in council homes?

BBFAN

Basically about 20k was added onto the cost of each unit to cover the Social Housing requirement.

It is true that developers could buy their way out of it in the past (would still cost them the 20k per unit) but it's not true anymore because too many developers were doing it and the government have no interest in taking all this money and building themselves.

For whatever reason, our current government have no interest in building themselves. In my opinion this is THE cause of the current crisis.

BBFAN

Cyrus wrote: »

Dun Laoghaire rathdown

Okay, do you have proof that there's an exemption there?

4ensic15

BBFAN wrote: »

Basically about 20k was added onto the cost of each unit to cover the Social Housing requirement.

It is true that developers could buy their way out of it in the past (would still cost them the 20k per unit) but it's not true anymore because too many developers were doing it and the government have no interest in taking all this money and building themselves.

For whatever reason, our current government have no interest in building themselves. In my opinion this is THE cause of the current crisis.

The government is not allowed to build.

BBFAN

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/reduced-social-housing-quota-set-to-encourage-building-1.2337762

Okay, here's a link I found, the requirement was reduced from 20% to 10% but with no exemptions.

BBFAN

4ensic15 wrote: »

The government is not allowed to build.

What do you mean by that?

myshirt

4ensic15 wrote: »

How many barristers grew up in council homes?

I used to work as a solicitor and I now work as an accountant. Let me tell you, the Bar and the Law Society are endeavoring to do their bit to give these kids a fair shake. Much more is needed however. And the accountancy bodies (bar ACCA) are a disgrace.

I agree with the sentiment of what you are saying. There are lots of structural barriers to becoming a barrister if you don't have money. A lot of your time will be spent watching episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm in the first few years.

I think it's important we have a broad mix in the legal profession, as when you have a concentration of one socioeconomic class, all that happens is one group of people are imposing their rules on another set of people. You need a mix to reflect the make up of our society in Ireland. Not good to segregate.

myshirt

BBFAN wrote: »

Okay, do you have proof that there's an exemption there?

Not officially but in practice there is.

BBFAN

myshirt wrote: »

Not officially but in practice there is.

So no matter what I post people still dispute it? Okay.....

BBFAN

4ensic15 wrote: »

How many barristers grew up in council homes?

Barristers a very bad example of a profession to pick. Simply because they have to work for years with no or little pay so they have to have rich mammies and daddies.

I know plenty of other professionals who grew up in council homes though, including myself. :rolleyes:

Cyrus

BBFAN wrote: »

Okay, do you have proof that there's an exemption there?

Yes there’s no social housing in my estate

Eric Cartman

Former Observer wrote: »

Astonishing number of people in here looking down on people in social housing. Well here's me looking down on you.

Everyones looking down on the bad elements, but you get a social house in and its a dice roll, thats why the idea of a dutch scum village is so appealing, let good tenants into the community and isolate the bad ones

BBFAN

Cyrus wrote: »

Yes there’s no social housing in my estate

How do you know that? Have you asked every single person how much they paid for their house?

How many houses in your estate and when was it built?

4ensic15

BBFAN wrote: »

Barristers a very bad example of a profession to pick. Simply because they have to work for years with no or little pay so they have to have rich mammies and daddies.

I know plenty of other professionals who grew up in council homes though, including myself. :rolleyes:

The specific allegation was that there were doctors and barristers who grew up in council houses. How many barristers grew up in council houses. Most grew up in counsel houses.

BBFAN

4ensic15 wrote: »

The specific allegation was that there were doctors and barristers who grew up in council houses. How many barristers grew up in council houses. Most grew up in counsel houses.

I don't know what specific allegation you're talking about?

Don't know what you mean about counsel houses either?

You're obviously trying to be a smart arse but it's not really making sense.

Oh I get your counsel houses now. Hilarious. NOT. :rolleyes:

Sleeper12

4ensic15 wrote:

How many barristers grew up in council homes?

Plenty and solicitors, judges, Doctors, pharmacists, TDs, Ministers etc, etc.

I lived all my life in Raheny. Most of Raheny was built in the 50s and 60s there is a great mix of council and private estates in Raheny. I went to the same school as people living in council homes. There was very little difference between the average private home owner & someone living in a council house. We were ALL working class. Many of the people living in the private homes, inc my own parents, came from inner city tenements, north strand or East Wall. Many adults now in their 80s talking like they have marbles in their mouth were born and bred inner city. They had inner city accents originally. My mother now in her late 80s bought a basic 3 bed semi in 1964. It's a toss of a coin that I grew up in a private house. My parents could easily have ended up with a council house.

There's a snobbery that has crept into Irish society in the last 25 years or so. I shudder to think how bad this snobbery would now be if the crash didn't put manners on people. Some people forgot where they came from and the humble beginnings their parents or grandparents had

4ensic15

BBFAN wrote: »

What do you mean by that?

The ECB has to approve the Irish budget. The government is not allowed to increase borrowing and therefore can't finance the construction of houses. The Irish banks can't finance housing because of the pitiful state their finances are in.
Most housing being built is student housing financed from outside the state or pre-funded block purchases with the funds coming from outside of the state.

4ensic15

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Plenty and solicitors, judges, Doctors, pharmacists, TDs, Ministers etc, etc.

I lived all my life in Raheny. Most of Raheny was built in the 50s and 60s there is a great mix of council and private estates in Raheny. I went to the same school as people living in council homes. There was very little difference between the average private home owner & someone living in a council house. We were ALL working class. Many of the people living in the private homes, inc my own parents, came from inner city tenements, north strand or East Wall. Many adults now in their 80s talking like they have marbles in their mouth were born and bred inner city. They had inner city accents originally. My mother now in her late 80s bought a basic 3 bed semi in 1964. It's a toss of a coin that I grew up in a private house. My parents could easily have ended up with a council house.

How many of them are now practising barristers?