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Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

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    #1082
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    I see no reason why Airbnb’s can’t be exempted under the same rules as small B&Bs are, they aren’t really comparable either as they offer a lot more than a B&B but they are far closer to that than a hotel and would allow people run their small aid Airbnb business without outbgetying bigged down in regulations and prohibitive costs which would make it unviable.

    Airbnbs differ from BnB if the whole property is rented out with nobody living there permanently. Most people would be happy enough to live next to a BnB because the presence of the owner-occupier helps ensure that excessive noise and disruption is unlikely to be much of an issue.


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    #1083
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    I see no reason why Airbnb’s can’t be exempted under the same rules as small B&Bs are

    For practical purposes they pretty much are.

    No restrictions on short term letting spare rooms in your home, just like a B&B.


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    #1084
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Graham wrote: »
    For practical purposes they pretty much are.

    No restrictions on short term letting spare rooms in your home, just like a B&B.

    I would include where the full property is let also though not just when the owner is resident.


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    #1085
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    I would include where the full property is let also though not just when the owner is resident.

    Oh... like a hotel?


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    #1086
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    I would include where the full property is let also though not just when the owner is resident.

    So not like the exceptions for a B&B then?

    More like re-purpose any property you like for holiday lettings.


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    #1087
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Graham wrote: »
    So not like the exceptions for a B&B then?

    More like re-purpose any property you like for holiday lettings.

    I thnk what he's really saying is that he wants to make money his way, without regulation, adherance to the law or support from society in general...


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    #1088
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Well, you are obviously a talented business operator, with commercial accumen... why don't you put that talent into opening a hotel that meets the rigours of regulation and meets the legal requirement... instead of buying residential property and running it as a second rate hotel and trying to convince others to break the klaw so that you can hide in numbers...

    Because there is absolutely no need to go to the expense of opening a hotel, all I have to do is Airbnb. Nothing second rate about it, it’s a beautiful 4 bed house, 4 en suites, balconies overlooking beautiful grounds, and it’s full every weekend, making triple what I would rent it for, that’s good business acumen for ya.


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    #1089
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    All you need now is planning permission.


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    #1090
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Graham wrote: »
    Bit of a false dilemma there Dav010.

    I'd prefer to have normal/reasonable long-term neighbours, as would most people I suspect.

    If it was easier to remove bad ones, long term tenants would be more appealing, it isn’t so they aren’t.


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    #1091
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Dav010 wrote: »
    If it was easier to remove bad ones, long term tenants would be more appealing, it isn’t so they aren’t.

    Agreed.

    Doesn't convince me that a free for all on converting residential property to holiday accommodation is appropriate or the solution.


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    #1092
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    I would include where the full property is let also though not just when the owner is resident.

    The owner being resident is the key to what makes BnBs more acceptable to neighbours. The presence of that owner-occupier is assurance that disruption will be minimal as BnB owners don’t generally tolerate noisiness in their homes. Same with AirBnBers who occasionally let out rooms in their homes. If they are just letting out the house while they are away, the disruption is minimal because it’s very infrequent. And if they are letting out a room whilst present in the house themselves, the same thing applies as for BnBs.

    Property owners letting out a whole property that they don’t live in is very different from all of the above.


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    #1093
    Jamsiek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Jamsiek


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    How? Why would the majority of people actually care about this being enforced bar a tiny number of people looking to rent who naively think this will make any difference and the few campaigners on here who I’m not even sure why they are so behind such an idiotic rule.
    You will find that the people looking to rent is not a "tiny amount of people" and the stats show that AirBNB leads to a reduced availability for people that need them.
    This is the reason for the law being introduced to fix this.
    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    It’s either a total non story to the vast majority of people or they will be annoyed that they may find it harder to get Airbnb accommodation in cork, Dublin or Galway etc when visiting.
    How do you know what the "vast majority of people" want?
    Have you done a survey?
    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    Also a lot of people would be fully behind a property owner right to let a property as they wish to maximize their profits and would be very against these nanny state rules.
    ...and a lot would be in favour of fixing the housing crisis
    Also, a house should be a home first and foremost and an investment second
    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    Personally I hope to see close to zero compliance and I expect very little if any enforcement as for a start it’s very difficult to enforce by the councils own admission.
    I think encouraging law breaking is against the rules of this forum


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    #1094
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Because there is absolutely no need to go to the expense of opening a hotel, all I have to do is Airbnb. Nothing second rate about it, it’s a beautiful 4 bed house, 4 en suites, balconies overlooking beautiful grounds, and it’s full every weekend, making triple what I would rent it for, that’s good business acumen for ya.

    That's your opinion... and I'm sure you are biased. That's why regulation is great... opinion is set in stone and you are required to meet the standards...

    Hotels meet these standards and pay allot to do so... you are illegallly gaining an advantage over them by ignoring regulations and are potentially taking money from legitimate businesses.


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    #1095
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Because there is absolutely no need to go to the expense of opening a hotel, all I have to do is Airbnb. Nothing second rate about it, it’s a beautiful 4 bed house, 4 en suites, balconies overlooking beautiful grounds, and it’s full every weekend, making triple what I would rent it for, that’s good business acumen for ya.
    But you're now breaking the law by doing so no? Is that fine as long as you don't expect to get in trouble for it?


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    #1096
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,551 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    That's your opinion... and I'm sure you are biased. That's why regulation is great... opinion is set in stone and you are required to meet the standards...

    Hotels meet these standards and pay allot to do so... you are illegallly gaining an advantage over them by ignoring regulations and are potentially taking money from legitimate businesses.

    Regulation is great? Regulation, as well-intended it usually is, normally makes a mess out of something

    Remember the outlawing of bedsits?
    How about these rent pressure zones?
    Or what about apartments needing to have dual aspects?

    How is this great regulation working out for the Dublin rental market?

    You can argue the pros and cons of Air Bnb, as there are many pros and cons to this type of accommodation but let's not pretend that the government or some pencil pusher in a local authority really has your best interest at heart.

    If you want to argue against Airbnb for the love of god do not point to great regulation from an Irish stand point.


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    #1097
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Eh, because the report said there were nearly 3000 entire homes advertised to let in Dublin on Airbnb, and Dublin CoCo had received four, yes four applications for planning, that is about 0.03%.

    Maybe, just maybe, the others are not going to exceed the limited number of days.


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    #1098
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    That's your opinion... and I'm sure you are biased. That's why regulation is great... opinion is set in stone and you are required to meet the standards...

    Hotels meet these standards and pay allot to do so... you are illegallly gaining an advantage over them by ignoring regulations and are potentially taking money from legitimate businesses.

    Ha ha regulation great? It’s mostly a massive bottleneck and money sink in this country rather than doing much good.

    A small business operating an Airbnb should not be held to the same standards as a hotel anyway as for a start they are simply not comparable despite you and a few others trying to argue they are.


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    #1099
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    That's your opinion... and I'm sure you are biased. That's why regulation is great... opinion is set in stone and you are required to meet the standards...

    Hotels meet these standards and pay allot to do so... you are illegallly gaining an advantage over them by ignoring regulations and are potentially taking money from legitimate businesses.

    Guests rate properties on the site, so not my opinion, 5 stars all the way, guests have recommended friends who have also stayed.


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    #1100
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    xckjoo wrote: »
    But you're now breaking the law by doing so no? Is that fine as long as you don't expect to get in trouble for it?

    A reply to that would surely result in an infraction/ban from the mods.


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    #1101
    Jamsiek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Jamsiek


    Dav010 wrote: »
    A reply to that would surely result in an infraction/ban from the mods.

    Is that an admission of guilt?


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    #1102
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Dav010 wrote: »
    A reply to that would surely result in an infraction/ban from the mods.

    Ha ha. Sorry. That wasn't the plan. Hypothetically though. If someone was to operate an AirBnB today that didn't comply with the new regulations. Is it OK to pick which regulations to abide by and which to ignore based primarily on what they think they can get away with?


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    #1103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Ha ha. Sorry. That wasn't the plan. Hypothetically though. If someone was to operate an AirBnB today that didn't comply with the new regulations. Is it OK to pick which regulations to abide by and which to ignore based primarily on what they think they can get away with?

    Sure who doesn’t do things this way (in general not property issues as such), I know for me rules and regulations are (to a certain extent) judged on what can be got away with vs. what cannot rather than the fact they are rules.


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    #1104
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    Sure who doesn’t do things this way (in general not property issues as such), I know for me rules and regulations are (to a certain extent) judged on what can be got away with vs. what cannot rather than the fact they are rules.

    Sadly, that attitude is very prevalent in Ireland. It trickles down from the politicians to every gombeen.


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    #1105
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    Sadly, that attitude is very prevalent in Ireland. It trickles down from the politicians to every gombeen.
    Yup. And they'll be people that un-ironically complain about the likes of politicians ignoring laws for their own gains.


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    #1106
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    Sure who doesn’t do things this way (in general not property issues as such), I know for me rules and regulations are (to a certain extent) judged on what can be got away with vs. what cannot rather than the fact they are rules.

    Mods, can we please do something about this... he's attempting ad nauseum to gain support for law breaking.

    I don't want to see this kind of ****e on boards...


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    #1107
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Mods, can we please do something about this... he's attempting ad nauseum to gain support for law breaking.

    I don't want to see this kind of ****e on boards...

    Trying to ruin the thread I see?

    I’m not trying to gain support for anything I simply pointed out what happens in the real world. The conversion is about the rules being ignored which is fact and I am just saying that it’s not a surprise this is happening.

    You don’t want to see other people’s options “on boards” either I see? You can barely have a conversation as it is without getting in hassle you hardly want it to be even stricter and totally prevent any normal level of conversation.


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    #1108
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Dav010 wrote: »
    A reply to that would surely result in an infraction/ban from the mods.
    Jamsiek wrote: »
    Is that an admission of guilt?

    We do not know Dav010’s exact position with regards to planning and his property, therefore we cannot assume they are breaking any laws.

    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    Sure who doesn’t do things this way (in general not property issues as such), I know for me rules and regulations are (to a certain extent) judged on what can be got away with vs. what cannot rather than the fact they are rules.

    You comply with all the regulations, not the ones you pick and choose.

    Mod Note
    Do not discuss law breaking on thread please.


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    #1109
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Mods, can we please do something about this... he's attempting ad nauseum to gain support for law breaking.

    I don't want to see this kind of ****e on boards...
    Theres nothing worse than someone attempting ad nauseum


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    #1110
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    According to an article in the independent today:
    A levy should be considered on companies like Airbnb and Booking.com to fund the regulation of the short-term letting sector, a report has suggested.

    Anybody and idea what report this is? From the article it's hard to work out if there's a new report floating around somewhere or if the article is just rehashing old news from the report by the original working group.*

    *Department of Housing, Department of Tourism, Department of Business, Fáilte Ireland, the Office of the Attorney General, the Department of Finance, the Residential Tenancies Board, An Bord Pleanála and Dublin City Council.


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    #1111
    CoffeeBean2
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭CoffeeBean2


    What are the steps taken if / when someone is caught? My understanding is that this falls under planning, which would mean an enforcement order with eight weeks to comply? So would that not mean that there is little risk to continue operating until that notice arrives?


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