Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

Graham

Dav010 wrote: »

Not likely, there will not be planning granted for blocks of STLs.

I thought there were already a few in the pipeline around Dublin.

Added:

Yup

Great Strand Street, Oliver Bond Street, James Street 650+ units

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

I thought there were already a few in the pipeline around Dublin.

Added:

Yup

Marlet, Balark 500+ units

I’m really glad to read that, it means that the market will be there for all to see.

Out of interest Graham, have you ever used Airbnb? Not all guests are young people wanting to live it up in the city. A lot are families and groups unable to afford hotels or want to stay together in a unit. If some people’s predictions are correct, there will be lots of rental accommodation available for those that want it. It seems some people like yourself just see it as an evil enterprise run by parasites and cowboys, it really is a strange view of what is a tiny industry. I think yours is a view borne out of begrudgery and discrimination, you just don’t want people from outside your community coming in and the owners making money.

You seem quite emotional about this.

Graham

Dav010 wrote: »

Not all guests are young people wanting to live it up in the city. A lot are families and groups unable to afford hotels or want to stay together in a unit.

Why didn't you say that earlier.

We should definitely kick more people out of our city-centre residential accommodation to support such an altruistic enterprise.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Out of interest Graham, have you ever used Airbnb? Not all guests are young people wanting to live it up in the city. A lot are families and groups unable to afford hotels or want to stay together in a unit. If some people’s predictions are correct, there will be lots of rental accommodation available for those that want it. It seems some people like yourself just see it as an evil enterprise run by parasites and cowboys, it really is a strange view of what is a tiny industry. I think yours is a view borne out of begrudgery and discrimination, you just don’t want people from outside your community coming in and the owners making money.

You’re quite emotional about this.

Therin lies the problem. Whole Private dwellings used as a business.

While I’ve never actually used AirBnB, any time I checked them out, I found little or no difference price wise between them and hotels, so always opted for the hotel

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

Why didn't you say that earlier.

We should definitely kick more people out of our city-centre residential accommodation to support such an altruistic enterprise.

No Graham, you can’t evict a tenant just because you want to make more money and do good by visitors. 🀑

Dav010

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Therin lies the problem. Whole Private dwellings used as a business.

While I’ve never actually used AirBnB, any time I checked them out, I found little or no difference price wise between them and hotels, so always opted for the hotel

The benefit comes Mayanne when there is a group. My house has 4 double beds en-suite, the cost of the whole house would be less than half the cost of renting 4 rooms in a local hotel. But worth substantially more to me than renting the house to a tenant.

I took the family to New York a few years ago and rented an apartment in Gramercy for the same price as renting one room in a hotel.

Graham

Dav010 wrote: »

No Graham, you can’t evict a tenant just because you want to make more money and do good by visitors. ��

Got it, landlords follow the RTA just not planning.

Kinda pick-and-mix legislation

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

Got it, landlords follow the RTA just not planning.

Kinda pick-and-mix legislation

The RTB is more robust than the LA and tenants have more rights than the guests. Besides, you are assured of payment from Airbnb guests and they feck off after a few days. 😀

I’ve never had problems with guests, neither have my neighbours, I wish the same were true of my tenants.

LuckyLloyd

Gael23 wrote: »

I don’t see Airbnb surviving Covid 19 so this discussion may soon nit be relevant

They seem confident that the actions they have taken will be enough. It's a company designed to lose investor money until they go public, so they don't have to get back to profitability this year to survive.

It really is all about how travel in general recovers, and how quickly. A second wave of lockdown across the world to the same extent as the current one will be highly problematic for businesses in the travel sector generally.

LuckyLloyd

schmittel wrote: »

A sort of black market for STLs as it were.

I suspect you're right.

And no doubt hosts will migrate en masse onto this new, less transparent platform, taking the bookings as normal, trusting this new operators ability to verify the guests, payout to hosts etc as normal.

Equally guests will hand over €500 a pop months in advance to this company, confident their money is safe, and expect to turn up and find they can access the property with no problem.

Business as usual. The soft landing for STL's.

'The smart ballsy people are holding their properties vacant ready for short term letting to return' :pac:

Donald Trump

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m really glad to read that, it means that the market will be there for all to see.

Out of interest Graham, have you ever used Airbnb? Not all guests are young people wanting to live it up in the city. A lot are families and groups unable to afford hotels or want to stay together in a unit. If some people’s predictions are correct, there will be lots of rental accommodation available for those that want it. It seems some people like yourself just see it as an evil enterprise run by parasites and cowboys, it really is a strange view of what is a tiny industry. I think yours is a view borne out of begrudgery and discrimination, you just don’t want people from outside your community coming in and the owners making money.

You seem quite emotional about this.

The nature of most things is that if you do them outside of regulations, you can make good money.


I reckon I could also make good money if I decide to taxi people around in a private car and didn't bother with pesky things like PSV licences or tests or having to pay higher insurance for commercial use.


If I have a shed at the bottom of my garden and I can pack 4 bunkbeds in there for a few immigrants, sure I could be making a fortune.

Dav010

Donald Trump wrote: »

The nature of most things is that if you do them outside of regulations, you can make good money.


I reckon I could also make good money if I decide to taxi people around in a private car and didn't bother with pesky things like PSV licences or tests or having to pay higher insurance for commercial use.


If I have a shed at the bottom of my garden and I can pack 4 bunkbeds in there for a few immigrants, sure I could be making a fortune.

If you were clever, you could double up by charging your immigrants for driving them around in your taxi.

hometruths

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

'The smart ballsy people are holding their properties vacant ready for short term letting to return' :pac:

Brilliant :D:D

Pkiernan

Ozark707 wrote: »

This is why I think the carrot has not worked and the stick needs to be taken out to hosts who won't comply.

What was the carrot exactly?

Edgware

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Therin lies the problem. Whole Private dwellings used as a business.

While I’ve never actually used AirBnB, any time I checked them out, I found little or no difference price wise between them and hotels, so always opted for the hotel

That wouldnt be the experience of thousands of people who have used Airbnb

Eric Cartman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

'The smart ballsy people are holding their properties vacant ready for short term letting to return' :pac:

there are a lot of landlords doing this. Many are stuck unable to sell in this market and so burned by long term letting in the past that they won't return, leaving it empty might not be profitable, but you stand to lose a lot more renting it long term to the wrong tenant.

Claw Hammer

The big factor with Air B&B after Covid will be the hotels. Pre-Covid the hotels were almost full with high occupancy levels and commanding high room rates. That will be different post-Covid and the hotels will not welcome Air B&B taking business from them. Neither will it suit the local authorities and the government to have AirB&Bs taking business from the hotels. Hotels pay commercial rates and are more labour-intensive than self catering.

The feeble attack on Air B&Bs that has been in place up to now, will give way to a sustained onslaught. It will not be motivated by ending homelessness but by keeping hotels going.

meijin

It's very easy to fix... rather than house inspections, just require AirBnB, and similar operators, to collect a proof that the advertised property has a correct planning permission for STL. If not, AirBnB gets fined. No need for hundreds of inspectors.

LuckyLloyd

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The big factor with Air B&B after Covid will be the hotels. Pre-Covid the hotels were almost full with high occupancy levels and commanding high room rates. That will be different post-Covid and the hotels will not welcome Air B&B taking business from them. Neither will it suit the local authorities and the government to have AirB&Bs taking business from the hotels. Hotels pay commercial rates and are more labour-intensive than self catering.

The feeble attack on Air B&Bs that has been in place up to now, will give way to a sustained onslaught. It will not be motivated by ending homelessness but by keeping hotels going.

This is unfortunately correct, "unfortunately" as the attack on residential communities and planning laws in urban city centres should have been enough to prompt aggressive action. But money / tax / jobs is definitely a much stronger incentive.

Claw Hammer

meijin wrote: »

It's very easy to fix... rather than house inspections, just require AirBnB, and similar operators, to collect a proof that the advertised property has a correct planning permission for STL. If not, AirBnB gets fined. No need for hundreds of inspectors.

What if it turns out to be a company called AIRbnb Mali limited registered in Timbuktu? What are you going to do? Send a summons by post.
What is needed are inspectors with powers. Management companies need to be made responsible for STLs in their blocks.

Dav010

Claw Hammer wrote: »

What if it turns out to be a company called AIRbnb Mali limited registered in Timbuktu? What are you going to do? Send a summons by post.
What is needed are inspectors with powers. Management companies need to be made responsible for STLs in their blocks.

Exactly right, that’s why I think this is just kite flying on behalf of the political party(ies). Where there is a void in the market, someone will fill it with a website based in another country. These sites already exist. Surely someone in the Dept asked what they would do if the site isn’t based in Ireland.

In relation to hotels, there are 240k Tourist beds in Ireland, if the hotels are worried about a sector representing about 3% of that, they have bigger problems than Airbnb.

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

Exactly right, that’s why I think this is just kite flying on behalf of the political party(ies). Where there is a void in the market, someone will fill it with a website based in another country. These sites already exist. Surely someone in the Dept asked what they would do if the site isn’t based in Ireland.

In relation to hotels, there are 240k Tourist beds in Ireland, if the hotels are worried about a sector representing about 3% of that, they have bigger problems than Airbnb.

The main area will be in Dublin. The hotels have big problems. Having illegal operators taking their business will not go down well. The advertising will be one thing they can do. The other thing they can do is fine management companies if apartments or houses are used illegally for AIRbnb. Every owner occupier in a block would them be on the alert for visitors and would call a dedicated phone line when they see suitcases being brought in. Inspectors with special powers would then go to the apartment and order the guests out.

listermint

Dav010 wrote: »

Exactly right, that’s why I think this is just kite flying on behalf of the political party(ies). Where there is a void in the market, someone will fill it with a website based in another country. These sites already exist. Surely someone in the Dept asked what they would do if the site isn’t based in Ireland.

In relation to hotels, there are 240k Tourist beds in Ireland, if the hotels are worried about a sector representing about 3% of that, they have bigger problems than Airbnb.

Hmm there seems to be alot of folks who think the EU isn't going to want to step into the mix on this ...


Newsflash this is a global issue and I'm in no doubt the EU will want their say on what's happening in European capitals.

Dav010

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The main area will be in Dublin. The hotels have big problems. having illegal operators taking their business will not go down well. The advertisig will be one thing they can do. the other thing they can do is fine management companies if apartments or houses are used illegally for AIRbnb. Every owner occupier in a block would them be on the alert for visitors and would call a dedicated phone line when they see suitcases beig brought in. Inspectors with special powers would then go to the apartment and order the guests out.

Fine management companies? Considering OMC comprise all the unit owners, I would imagine that would be a difficult piece of legislation to write, fining innocent property owners.

Not to mention, the Hosts are often tenants, not owners. This is one of the reasons why the LA do not collect/store data on advertisements on STL sites.

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

Fine management companies? Considering OMC comprise all the unit owners, I would imagine that would be a difficult piece of legislation to write, fining innocent property owners.

The company is a distinct legal entity from the unit owners. No problem writing legislation to fine the company.

Dav010

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The company is a distinct legal entity from the unit owners. No problem writing legislation to fine the company.

Under the MUD Act, when you buy a property in a multi-unit development, you legally become a member of the OMC. This happens automatically and means that you have legal rights and obligations.

Graham

Claw Hammer wrote: »

What if it turns out to be a company called AIRbnb Mali limited registered in Timbuktu?

The legitimate platform operators aren't going to take that approach.

You might get a few dreggy clones trying it on and a few cowboy operators listing properties with them but who would book through them when you have the likes of AirBnB with the remaining legitimate offerings.

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

Under the MUD Act, when you buy a property in a multi-unit development, you legally become a member of the OMC. This happens automatically and means that you have legal rights and obligations.

So what? Buy a share in a quoted company you become a member of the company.
A company is a distinct legal entity from its shareholders, whether it is an OMC or a PLC.

Claw Hammer

Graham wrote: »

The legitimate platform operators aren't going to take that approach.

You might get a few dreggy clones trying it on and a few cowboy operators listing properties with them but who would book through them when you have the likes of AirBnB with the remaining legitimate offerings.

AIRbnb will have very few legitimate offerings if every apartment has to be registered and have planning permission.

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

The legitimate platform operators aren't going to take that approach.

You might get a few dreggy clones trying it on and a few cowboy operators listing properties with them but who would book through them when you have the likes of AirBnB with the remaining legitimate offerings.

I disagree Graham. Businesses adapt to challenges, if Airbnb stops being a player in the market, they will have to either change to get around the rules, or pull out leaving the way clear for another platform based outside the jurisdiction. If as another poster said, this becomes an issue at EU level, you can be damn sure another platform will come in. At the moment, I can advertise on Facebook or a site based in the UK advertising holiday lets throughout Europe. Airbnb is just the biggest player in the field, but others are there.