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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Anyway, fresh page, fresh start? Interesting to note that basically all of the likely winners in Dublin Bay South are in favour of increasing pedestrian and cycling provision in the city:
    https://www.dublincommuters.ie/post/2021-dublin-bay-south-by-election-candidate-survey

    Geoghegan didn't respond to the survey, but he's at least paid lip-service to the idea with his "15 minute city" lark




  • I'm not sure you understand the word "capacity"
    I do. There is a finite capacity on every pipe/road/wire where factors remain fixed at specific values but when alternate strategies are employed then the capacity can increase to a certain extent or environment is changed so that capacity is not reached due to demand being reduced e.g. a re-routing of a bus service, placement of shared bike locations or even eliminating the need for stations, introduction of elektroscooters and legislation for same, mopeds having basically near zero running costs due to no tax and insurance costing only 40 euro per year, resurfacing of shared pavement, tactically positioned new car parks, intelligent traffic lights and road management systems, establishing new roads through gardens, tunnels where previously there were none, etc... all of which I can point to in the locality to ensure that the city keeps moving, remains vibrant and is viewed as a place people actually want to live in and visit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    concrete movable barriers, temporary traffic lights and yellow tape markings are not permanent fixtures so I don't see that bike lane being permanent in its current form. having cycled that route before the barriers were introduced that the pavement while adequate for walking along was not satisfactory for cyclists although cyclists were expected to share it with pedestrians.

    Missing my point, things you are seeing as 'fine' to provide cyclists with which, according to you 'don't impact on motorists' are here seen as an absolute assault on motorists, we have just witnessed a judicial hearing over a TRIAL cycle lane that received two public consultations and a public forum before implementation, even though legally the council could have simply put it down on the road without any consultations whatsoever same as relining the road or anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,226 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    easy to say that from a distance. Germans are not as passive as Irish and would hang a Bürgermeister who made their daily lives intolerable.

    Most germans are urban dwellers and want safe cycling and walking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Anyway, fresh page, fresh start? Interesting to note that basically all of the likely winners in Dublin Bay South are in favour of increasing pedestrian and cycling provision in the city:
    https://www.dublincommuters.ie/post/2021-dublin-bay-south-by-election-candidate-survey

    Geoghegan didn't respond to the survey, but he's at least paid lip-service to the idea with his "15 minute city" lark

    Nobody but the most fringe these days is officially 'against' more walking and cycling provision, the devil is very much in the detail. Geoghegan, Conroy, even Mannix 'Anti-Cycling' Flynn, all claim to be in favour of increased pedestrianisation and cycling. but it has to be done 'in the right way' with 'proper' consultation (With what that means being wildly different from the standard process for anything else and far beyond any reasonable consultative process)

    As a rule of thumb if they aren't in favour of the strand road trial, but instead the original 'boardwalk' concept, then they are effectively anti-cycling, as councillors they should know that that would take at least 4 years to go through planning and require an EIS in a protected biosphere, which will ask if they have tried all other options before they try this, which would require them to run something like the strand road trial anyway...


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  • I do. There is a finite capacity on every pipe/road/wire where factors remain fixed at specific values but when alternate strategies are employed then the capacity can increase to a certain extent or environment is changed so that capacity is not reached due to demand being reduced e.g. a re-routing of a bus service, placement of shared bike locations or even eliminating the need for stations, introduction of elektroscooters and legislation for same, mopeds having basically near zero running costs due to no tax and insurance costing only 40 euro per year, resurfacing of shared pavement, tactically positioned new car parks, intelligent traffic lights and road management systems, establishing new roads through gardens, tunnels where previously there were none, etc... all of which I can point to in the locality to ensure that the city keeps moving, remains vibrant and is viewed as a place people actually want to live in and visit.

    You are somewhat correct but you have missed the point. You are thinking of capacity in terms of cars only. You need to adjust your thinking to look at capacity in terms of the number of people.

    There is a finite capacity of a thoroughfare for each mode of transport, which is well illustrated through the following graphic

    557762.jpg

    Now a capacity of 2k for cars only works fine when you have a small population, however as your population increases the capacity is reached and maintained for longer and longer periods (rush hours).

    So how do you achieve the maximum throughput on an hourly basis.

    You recommend buses sharing the same space as cars, however even back as far as the 1990's we knew that didnt work and bus only lanes started to be rolled out as buses were not an attractive option prior. So a bus lane is needed in each direction to achieve additional capacity gains

    Next looking at cycling, e-scooters etc, you also need safe & protected infrastructure for those too, so we're at adding additional capacity through installing the right kind of infrastructure for these modes too. Without this infrastructure you can only expect the most brave and fearless to use these modes as they would have to mix with motor traffic.

    Now continue along this thoroughfare towards the city center. As you get closer and closer, the space becomes more and more limited. How do you increase capacity on routes where it is not possible to expand either side? The answer is you begin to remove the least efficient mode or at the very least you drastically reduce its priority and access to make other modes more attractive.

    This is nothing new and has been and is being done in cities and towns all over the world.

    This change is best illustrated below and is driven by efficiency, cost & sustainability. On the flip side, the argument for unrestricted car access is driven by emotion only. There is no logical argument to be made, which stands up to scrutiny, for continued unrestricted access for the car in our towns and cities.

    557763.jpg

    557764.jpg




  • You are somewhat correct but you have missed the point. You are thinking of capacity in terms of cars only. You need to adjust your thinking to look at capacity in terms of the number of people.

    There is a finite capacity of a thoroughfare for each mode of transport, which is well illustrated through the following graphic

    557762.jpg

    Now a capacity of 2k for cars only works fine when you have a small population, however as your population increases the capacity is reached and maintained for longer and longer periods (rush hours).

    So how do you achieve the maximum throughput on an hourly basis.

    You recommend buses sharing the same space as cars, however even back as far as the 1990's we knew that didnt work and bus only lanes started to be rolled out as buses were not an attractive option prior. So a bus lane is needed in each direction to achieve additional capacity gains

    Next looking at cycling, e-scooters etc, you also need safe & protected infrastructure for those too, so we're at adding additional capacity through installing the right kind of infrastructure for these modes too. Without this infrastructure you can only expect the most brave and fearless to use these modes as they would have to mix with motor traffic.

    Now continue along this thoroughfare towards the city center. As you get closer and closer, the space becomes more and more limited. How do you increase capacity on routes where it is not possible to expand either side? The answer is you begin to remove the least efficient mode or at the very least you drastically reduce its priority and access to make other modes more attractive.

    This is nothing new and has been and is being done in cities and towns all over the world.

    This change is best illustrated below and is driven by efficiency, cost & sustainability. On the flip side, the argument for unrestricted car access is driven by emotion only. There is no logical argument to be made, which stands up to scrutiny, for continued unrestricted access for the car in our towns and cities.

    557763.jpg

    557764.jpg
    Interesting. They do be drawing some pretty graphs. Works well on paper I suppose.




  • See how he sprung his trap to seed a piece of fancy..."Capacity" mentioned in thread and looking for a follow up post to give an excuse to post a flight of fancy presented as hard facts not lived anywhere outside of Utopia.

    I mention roads, intelligent traffic management solutions/traffic lights and poster suggests I am talking only about cars as though buses, shared cars, mopeds, bikes don't get benefit from them. If you want a shared car you go to an underground car park where I live. buses get priority on roads through traffic management systems and controlled lights.

    I'm being lectured to a lot by people who don't seem to have seen much of the world and alternate stategies used elsewhere.




  • Interesting. They do be drawing some pretty graphs. Works well on paper I suppose.
    See how he sprung his trap to seed a piece of fancy..."Capacity" mentioned in thread and looking for a follow up post to give an excuse to post a flight of fancy presented as hard facts not lived anywhere outside of Utopia.

    I'm being lectured to a lot by people who don't seem to have seen much of the world and alternate stategies used elsewhere.

    passive aggressive silliness. If you wish to have a discussion, then discuss.
    I mention roads, intelligent traffic management solutions/traffic lights and poster suggests I am talking only about cars as though buses, shared cars, mopeds, bikes don't get benefit from them. If you want a shared car you go to an underground car park where I live.

    Buses & bikes & escooters get benefits when they have the correct infrastructure which gives them priority over cars and ensures safe, reliable and consistent journey times.
    buses get priority on roads through traffic management systems and controlled lights.

    100% agree, priority measures at junctions are needed across all bus routes to allow them to go through the lights ahead of cars.

    However, without bus lanes such measures would be pointless and would not work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://twitter.com/AccessForAll7/status/1412357977881907200

    Look what pedestrianisation and cycle lanes are doing to the disabled and the elderly! That's a kid ffs.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,986 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    They didn't come out of the activism of vested interest groups with a pathological hatred of private transport.

    You seem to have a problem with people presenting anything beyond a motor centric point of view, but regardless, bus lanes and tram lanes in Dublin didn't come out of any particular forms of activism.
    keep up to date. Last week is more than just saturday and with a 20% gradient gaining speed is not the problem.

    Just seems a bit unlikely - the person who could barely walk was also cycling too fast for their own good?
    Vastly more, pro-rated?? How current are your statistics. It is very hard to kill yourself in a modern car.

    Please show me the sections in those studies where they dealt with injuries from falling off bikes. e-bikes have filled the emergency rooms in recent years with old people who can't stay upright on them. This neighbour also messed up his wrist last year.

    Two are killed in cars each week here on average, with another pedestrian or cyclist or motorcyclist killed most weeks too. That's the current, up-to-date statistics; https://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/RSA-Statistics/
    And yet, you're jumping up and down about the dangers to cyclists, despite decades of evidence confirming the health benefits of cycling, which reduces cancer rates, diabetes rates, hypertension rates, CHD rates, obesity rates - the issues that are killing large numbers of people every day. Might be time to look beyond the personal anecdata to see the bigger picture.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    https://twitter.com/AccessForAll7/status/1412357977881907200

    Look what pedestrianisation and cycle lanes are doing to the disabled and the elderly! That's a kid ffs.

    But those cars are a VITAL part of the city's public transport network :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    MJohnston wrote: »
    But those cars are a VITAL part of the city's public transport network :pac:

    It's just mad that they'll bend over backwards to park all over a footpath because they don't want to commit the biggest crime there is, causing an obstacle for other motorists. It doesn't even enter their heads that people need to use footpaths.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    It's just mad that they'll bend over backwards to park all over a footpath because they don't want to commit the biggest crime there is, causing an obstacle for other motorists. It doesn't even enter their heads that people need to use footpaths.

    Something about driving has a numbing effect on the brain. Like everything is focused on operating the machinery, so all logic and empathy just bleeds out. And some never recover it when the ignition is off!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Something about driving has a numbing effect on the brain. Like everything is focused on operating the machinery, so all logic and empathy just bleeds out. And some never recover it when the ignition is off!
    There are dickheads everywhere. Very few people would actually park there. Quit tarring everyone with the same brush.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    There are dickheads everywhere. Very few people would actually park there. Quit tarring everyone with the same brush.

    Very few, every bloody footpath in Dublin is covered in illegally parked cars


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,986 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    There are dickheads everywhere. Very few people would actually park there. Quit tarring everyone with the same brush.
    Very few people park like dickheads? Really?

    This is such a regular occurence that there are Twitter accounts set up to track them;

    https://twitter.com/Dub14Blockers/media

    https://twitter.com/dublin_8/media

    https://twitter.com/dublinblockers/media

    https://twitter.com/Dub13Blockers/media




  • Just seems a bit unlikely - the person who could barely walk was also cycling too fast for their own good?
    I still had to lock his chicken coop because he was and still is in Hospital but you have no problems insinuating that I'm a liar. You are some piece of work.




  • Very few, every bloody footpath in Dublin is covered in illegally parked cars

    Is the solution to ban cars across the board or confiscate them from those who can't park them properly and adandonment rather than parking would be the proper term for cars left on pavements.
    People on here are dreaming of a new paradigm without looking at the consequences for others. A little bit of enforcement of current laws would do wonders for traffic flow in Dublin.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Very few, every bloody footpath in Dublin is covered in illegally parked cars
    Very few people park like dickheads? Really?

    This is such a regular occurence that there are Twitter accounts set up to track them;
    There are over 2 million private cars in Ireland and 2.6 million people have driving licences, but there aren't millions of cars parked illegally. So yes, very few drivers would actually park like that.

    MJohnston implied every single driver in the country is an inconsiderate dick because a minority park illegally. That is quite obviously not the case and shows nothing more than his hatred of private cars.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    There are dickheads everywhere. Very few people would actually park there. Quit tarring everyone with the same brush.

    I live near there and regularly walk past it. Cars park all over the footpaths around there and the area in general.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    There are over 2 million private cars in Ireland and 2.6 million people have driving licences, but there aren't millions of cars parked illegally. So yes, very few drivers would actually park like that.

    MJohnston implied every single driver in the country is an inconsiderate dick because a minority park illegally. That is quite obviously not the case and shows nothing more than his hatred of private cars.

    There are probably about 100 cars parked fully on the footpath between where I live and my parents house, a 20 minute walk away. It's like this all over the city.
    It is endemic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    There are over 2 million private cars in Ireland and 2.6 million people have driving licences, but there aren't millions of cars parked illegally. So yes, very few drivers would actually park like that.

    MJohnston implied every single driver in the country is an inconsiderate dick because a minority park illegally. That is quite obviously not the case and shows nothing more than his hatred of private cars.

    I didn’t imply *anything* in my post, I was extremely clear and upfront about what I was saying. It’s all there in the text.

    You’d do well not to entirely lie about another poster’s words whole cloth as you’ve done here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,226 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Not only a Labour politician, but an unelected (to the role of mayor) one, gets her oar in for the motor industry.

    https://irishcycle.com/2021/07/15/pedestrianising-capel-street-24-7-would-inconvenience-businesses-says-new-lord-mayor/

    Post edited by cgcsb on


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,986 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Unelected? She is an elected Councillor, and elected Councillors elect the Mayor.


    She does seem to have misread the public mood on this though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Given that one of her fellow Labour Councillors is on the anti Strand Road bandwagon I can't say I'm shocked.

    It's hard to decide if the perception of the Bicycle as a 'liberating vehicle for the worker' has changed entirely (I know its perversely seen as the preserve of the wealthy MAMIL by many), or if this is just further evidence that Labour have moved very far from their founding principles...



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,226 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I don't get it either. Is it not meant to be a workers party? Old fashioned fuddy duddies protecting wealthy nimby residents associations.





  • Not to mention a Ranelagh (I think?) Labour Councillor and Ivana Bacik support legalising parking on footpaths in residential streets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,226 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    She had the nerve to make her election posters of her posing with a bike. Like what message is that trying to send? And RTÉ gushed over her winning a by-election with 35% turnout after decades of failing to be elected.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    "The Lord Mayor said that Capel Street is “the” artery out of the northside when going west"

    I have literally not once driven down Capel Street to go to the west. What on earth does she count as the West? Jervis st car park?



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