Pre-run supplement

Carnmore

Doing a 5km run on Saturday and need to do a good time. 

I run regularly, have a healthy diet and lifestyle yet am lacking in running energy. 

I usually get my nutrition from food but what can I take for an energy boost for the run at the weekend?

Preferably from Holland and Barrett.

Hurrache

Just food. There's no miracle cure, and it's only 5k.

Carnmore

Hurrache wrote: »

Just food. There's no miracle cure, and it's only 5k.

There must be something that'll give me a boost

SeeMoreBut

HTFU tablets are great

Carnmore

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

HTFU tablets are great

Confused much? After Hours is your forum

xckjoo

Most supplements are snake oil. Caffeine might actually be the best fit for what you're looking for. A couple of espressos and off you go (via the jacks for safety )

SeeMoreBut

Carnmore wrote: »

Confused much? After Hours is your forum

Red bull as it gives you wings to fly around would be more after hours answer.

El CabaIIo

Baking soda(Sodium bi-carbonate), Beta Alanine or beetroot juice can help with lactate buffering.

For an energy boost, caffeine is probably the best bet.

Carnmore

My main problem is lack of energy and breathlessness

Lazare

Sounds like you simply need to build your endurance. That and find out what your 5k pace is.

You're probably currently running them at a 3k pace.

You say you run regularly, what does that consist of? Distances, pace, regularity?

Lazare

Obv that doesn't answer your pressing question.

There's no pill or potion unfortunately, put in the work and smash one in December or January.

M.m.m.

Carnmore wrote: »

My main problem is lack of energy and breathlessness

I tried a Kinetica pre fuel last week just to see if it would give me anything...i got a pins and needles sensation after i drank it, i did think i got a little rush for a few minutes of nervous energy but that was it for me. I didnt like the sensation so wont be using it again. Those sachets are about 1.50 in Elverys.

you sound like you're running too fast for your current fitness.
a certain amount of breathlessness is expected in races and speed sessions where you're exerting yourself
but not on easy runs.

Carnmore

Lazare wrote: »

Sounds like you simply need to build your endurance. That and find out what your 5k pace is.

You're probably currently running them at a 3k pace.

You say you run regularly, what does that consist of? Distances, pace, regularity?

Time approx 23:30. PR 18:41 in 2016 but just cannot get back to that pace.

I run, walk or cycle every day - from 5 to 10k

Lazare

You've got it in the legs then, are you running hard most of the time?

Tons of easy aerobic running will get you that pace back.

Carnmore

Lazare wrote: »

You've got it in the legs then, are you running hard most of the time?

Tons of easy aerobic running will get you that pace back.

As hard as I can each time.

Could you elaborate on “tonnes of easy aerobic running”?

Thank you

Lazare

Carnmore wrote: »

As hard as I can each time.

Could you elaborate on “tonnes of easy aerobic running”?

Thank you

Aerobic running is slow, easy paced running.

You build endurance by working your aerobic system, your heart and lungs. You create an efficient system of oxygen supply to the leg muscles. A strong aerobic engine, made up of larger capacity lungs, and a larger stronger heart is what gives you endurance. Endurance to hold a faster and faster pace over a given distance.

When you run hard you cross the threshold into anaerobic excersise. You're no longer using your aerobic system or building it.

Gradually increase your mileage, spend 8 to 12 weeks running easy, nothing but easy. Then, introduce faster stuff, reps, intervals etc. By early Spring you will pb 5k.

Guarantee it.

It's hard work, but it's enjoyable hard work, and it will get you there.

xckjoo

M.m.m. wrote: »

I tried a Kinetica pre fuel last week just to see if it would give me anything...i got a pins and needles sensation after i drank it, i did think i got a little rush for a few minutes of nervous energy but that was it for me. I didnt like the sensation so wont be using it again. Those sachets are about 1.50 in Elverys.

you sound like you're running too fast for your current fitness.
a certain amount of breathlessness is expected in races and speed sessions where you're exerting yourself
but not on easy runs.

Was there lots of B vitamin in it? Sounds like a Niacin Flush. Very strange sensation. Can't imagine it making you feel like running very fast either!

Itziger

Carnmore wrote: »

As hard as I can each time.

Could you elaborate on “tonnes of easy aerobic running”?

Thank you

That's why you can't get back to 18.XX

Train smarter. Check out plans and/or talk to people who train seriously.

average_runner

Carnmore wrote: »

Time approx 23:30. PR 18:41 in 2016 but just cannot get back to that pace.

I run, walk or cycle every day - from 5 to 10k

And how was your training back then and how did it different?

AuldManKing

Could there be an anxiety about performance that is impacting you?

Looking for a boost for a 5k indicates that you really care about this performance and there is a pressure to perform at levels you were once upon a time.

Even with no anxiety, Pacing the 1st KM conservatively will be the best thing you can do - this works 9/10 in cases like this as you relax into the run - this will help with the breathing etc.
Doing some Parkruns in advance of a target race will also help dial in the correct pace.

No magic cure I'm afraid.

seamusk84

Berocca Boost dissolved in water (has to be the boost one) and a strong americano. (1.5 hours prior to the race)

I say this as someone who runs 5kms currently in the 18’s.

Itziger

Lads, I seriously doubt that there is a legal boost that comes anywhere near a decent training programme....

Heck, even the illegal stuff requires some heavy training. Allows you to train harder basically.

Carnmore

seamusk84 wrote: »

Berocca Boost dissolved in water (has to be the boost one) and a strong americano. (1.5 hours prior to the race)

I say this as someone who runs 5kms currently in the 18’s.

Do you have breakfast before a morning run?

Testosterscone

Carnmore wrote: »

I run regularly, have a healthy diet and lifestyle yet am lacking in running energy. 

Calorie intake - Are you eating enough (of the right stuff) a health diet is too vague a description

Training - You have already said you are running 100% the whole time, address this

Stress levels - are these in check and are you recovering from training sufficiently

Sleep - Are you getting enough

Unless you address these no supplement will be worth a damn and will make any bit of blind difference. If you tick all these boxes then you can start to look at supplementation actually making a difference (but the problem is that anything that has any merit to it is not a quick fix but works on sustainable build up over a period of time)

Also worth noting that most of holland and barretts supplements are under-dosed so even if you are taking things which may have a benefit generally you won't get enough to get these benefits

M.m.m.

xckjoo wrote: »

Was there lots of B vitamin in it? Sounds like a Niacin Flush. Very strange sensation. Can't imagine it making you feel like running very fast either!

It was only a small sachet but heres the product info, there is B12 alright.

Kinetica Pre.Fuel has been specially formulated by leading sports specialists and is manufactured in Ireland from high quality ingredients to create an expert pre-workout supplement. As well as 94mg of caffeine per serving,


Pre.Fuel contains branced chain amino acids (BCAAs). BCAA's are essential amino acids that cannot be manufactured by the body so therefore must be obtained through the diet. The BCAAs are combined with a unique amino acid blend containing l-arginine, beta alanine, l-tyrosine, l-carnitine l-tartrate and taurine. We also add a blend of vitamins including Vitamin B12 which contributes to the reduction of tiredness and fatigue, Biotin which contributes to normal energy yielding metabolism and Vitamin E which contributes to the protection of cells from oxidative stress. Kinetica Pre.Fuel also contains natural flavours, is gluten free and has no added sugar.

Kinetica Pre.Fuel is registered with the Informed Sport program and all Kinetica products are batch tested within the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) framework so athletes can compete with confidence.

M.m.m.

I used to take Revive Active a few years ago. I was told by one of the marketers that its the closest thing to taking something illegal while being legal. A lot of jockeys and rugby players use it. Paula Radcliffe advertises it these days. I used to take it back when Tracy Piggott was marketing it.
Its very expensive and its only a drink so you pee a lot of it away instantly as you'll realise when you see Mango coloured pee.
It does give an energy boost but I think you can get just as much from your diet really. My sister takes it since shes a smoker but also likes to keep as fit as a smoker can do with losing nutrients etc.

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

I used to take Revive Active a few years ago. I was told by one of the marketers that its the closest thing to taking something illegal while being legal. A lot of jockeys and rugby players use it. Paula Radcliffe advertises it these days. I used to take it back when Tracy Piggott was marketing it.
Its very expensive and its only a drink so you pee a lot of it away instantly as you'll realise when you see Mango coloured pee.
It does give an energy boost but I think you can get just as much from your diet really. My sister takes it since shes a smoker but also likes to keep as fit as a smoker can do with losing nutrients etc.

I am sorry to say but the marketer was doing what they do best; sell a product

Of the top listing ingredients that actually have any efficacy 4-5 are underdosed with Vitamin C being overdosed as a water soluble vitamin which makes it an overly expensive pee colourer.

skyblue46

Why does this all make me feel uncomfortable?

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

I am sorry to say but the marketer was doing what they do best; sell a product

Of the top listing ingredients that actually have any efficacy 4-5 are underdosed with Vitamin C being overdosed as a water soluble vitamin which makes it an overly expensive pee colourer.

Vitamins are big business the world over and mostly not a proven science so its easy to promote them or shoot them down.

Yes vitamins c is well known as a difficult one to hold onto, that's right. Perhaps thats why they over dose it, knowing you will lose so much through peeing


You might mention 3 or 4 there that are under dosed, maybe because the manufacturers feel the average Joe gets some of them from your food and drink already so doesnt need to over dose on those ones. Or perhaps because its mainly an energy drink so they focus on B vitamins and add minerals like Selenium and Magnesium for athletic performance. Adding a few more vitamins and minerals so you feel you're getting more bang for your buck and setting it aside from other similar products.

I cant say for sure because Im not a Scientist, fortune teller or marketer for that matter so I wont promote it.


All I know is that I believed I got a boost from it and took it well before I heard it was a legal high
I only stopped taking it because I was broke and sick of Mango flavour. :pac:

Either way its on the market now for well over 10 years, Irish made (Galway) and doing well enough to get big names promoting it.


So the moral of the story is if you believe it works for you, have spare cash and it gives you joy and doesn't kill you then go for it.


Otherwise stick with your 5 a day veg, grow the veg out the back, join a running club and enter club promoted races to save money, promote sport and make friends. Jebus, I sound like me aul fella.

M.m.m.

skyblue46 wrote: »

Why does this all make me feel uncomfortable?

That's anticipation you're feeling Skyblue, the discomfort is coming from your piles

Lazare

Well that got weird.

OP, maybe set up a training log with a goal of a 5k PR. You'll get cracking advice.

Would be a very interesting log, you seem to have excellent potential.

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

You might mention 3 or 4 there that are under dosed, maybe because the manufacturers feel the average Joe gets some of them from your food and drink already so doesnt need to over dose on those ones.

This is the crux of the matter regarding supplement be in consumer or supplier. If you are getting it from foods then you do not need to suppliment. Likewise if suppliers are underdosing then they are not designing a product to help people but rather just cut margin costs to make tidy profit for a low quality product)

For the record I am not anti suppliments they do have there place (for example one of the ingredients I mentioned before is valid for supplementation as citrulline would mean you are eating the rind of a watermelon to try and get enough from your food but at the levels they have in it is about 33% of recommended daily intake and even then this is something which works long term) but for the most part I would say that 99.9999% of people here (including myself) are wasting there time and money on suppliements till they properly fix there diet.

Burkie1203

Carnmore wrote: »

Time approx 23:30. PR 18:41 in 2016 but just cannot get back to that pace.

I run, walk or cycle every day - from 5 to 10k

Lack of rest could be the cause

Dtp1979

xckjoo wrote: »

Was there lots of B vitamin in it? Sounds like a Niacin Flush. Very strange sensation. Can't imagine it making you feel like running very fast either!

The pins and needles were caused by beta alanine in the pre workout.
Op, train hard and depending on your tolerance to caffeine, take a 200mg caffeine tablet 30mins before the run.

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

This is the crux of the matter regarding supplement be in consumer or supplier. If you are getting it from foods then you do not need to suppliment. Likewise if suppliers are underdosing then they are not designing a product to help people but rather just cut margin costs to make tidy profit for a low quality product)

For the record I am not anti suppliments they do have there place (for example one of the ingredients I mentioned before is valid for supplementation as citrulline would mean you are eating the rind of a watermelon to try and get enough from your food but at the levels they have in it is about 33% of recommended daily intake and even then this is something which works long term) but for the most part I would say that 99.9999% of people here (including myself) are wasting there time and money on suppliements till they properly fix there diet.

Well thats a fair enough reply.
I might actually get in touch with Revive and ask them about that.
Personally, I dont think their products are poor quality but sure I'll see what they have to say for themselves

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

Well thats a fair enough reply.
I might actually get in touch with Revive and ask them about that.
Personally, I dont think their products are poor quality but sure I'll see what they have to say for themselves

Sorry this was not an attack on this product as compared to others on the market it is probably higher quality than others but more just the general quality of supplements in general and it is worth noting that ingredients within supplements is only part of the overall picture of what is going on. A supplement can have the right stuff but just in the wrong amounts.

L-Arginine tends a poor absorption rate so is an ineffective supplement especially in anyone with higher cholesterol (as low as 1%-30%) in order to have an effect you need to be taking much higher leves

Citrulline Malate is a better alternative which is also in the product but again recomeneded into legs are closer to 3 times the amount present

CoQ10 tends to be the key component and to be fair this seems to be mid range of recommended doseage

L-Carnitine is a supplement which can take nearly 6 months of supplementing to see any sort of result of muscle carnitine levels.

I would recommend looking at animal protein intake and egg consumption before supplementing with this product unless you are on a vegan/vegetarian diet.

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

Sorry this was not an attack on this product as compared to others on the market it is probably higher quality than others but more just the general quality of supplements in general and it is worth noting that ingredients within supplements is only part of the overall picture of what is going on. A supplement can have the right stuff but just in the wrong amounts.

L-Arginine tends a poor absorption rate so is an ineffective supplement especially in anyone with higher cholesterol (as low as 1%-30%) in order to have an effect you need to be taking much higher leves

Citrulline Malate is a better alternative which is also in the product but again recomeneded into legs are closer to 3 times the amount present

CoQ10 tends to be the key component and to be fair this seems to be mid range of recommended doseage

L-Carnitine is a supplement which can take nearly 6 months of supplementing to see any sort of result of muscle carnitine levels.

I would recommend looking at animal protein intake and egg consumption before supplementing with this product unless you are on a vegan/vegetarian diet.

Ah no, i didnt think you were attacking the product but it made me curious about why the company have put in the measures that they have since IMO it is such a high standard product. Perhaps not a miracle product but defo highly commended and award winning in Ireland and UK.

I seriously wouldn't spend money on something unless there were results to back it up and this company have proven that they're top of their game.
I doubt Paula, Pippa or Tracy would put their name to half baked products.

https://www.glutenfreeireland.com/revive-active-crowned-best-product-irish-pharmacy-awards/
https://connachttribune.ie/revive-active-celebrates-top-award-at-business-summit/

to name but a few

M.m.m.

I noticed in this months Irish Runner magazine that Lizzie Lee is the new face of Revive Active. All the put down this product had from some posters here yet it continues to get some great names endorsing it.

OOnegative

M.m.m. wrote: »

I noticed in this months Irish Runner magazine that Lizzie Lee is the new face of Revive Active. All the put down this product had from some posters here yet it continues to get some great names sponsoring it.

No it’s sponsoring some great names.

M.m.m.

OOnegative wrote: »

No it’s sponsoring some great names.

Sorry about that error.

It might be worth your while checking it out, its a great mood lifter.:)

OOnegative

M.m.m. wrote: »

Sorry about that error.

It might be worth your while checking it out, its a great mood lifter.:)

Don’t know what your insinuating, but nothing wrong with my mood thanks.

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

I noticed in this months Irish Runner magazine that Lizzie Lee is the new face of Revive Active. All the put down this product had from some posters here yet it continues to get some great names endorsing it.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/7ZvD/mcdonalds-chicken-mcnuggets-featuring-lebron-james

Sports people are not infallible to superstition, recommendations etc. If someone recommends you something and you are able to get it free because you are high profile most people are willing to give something a try (if legal) That is not an argument for the efficacy.

Sponsorship is big business, just take a look at Irish bloggers and you will see people will say anything for free gear, rarely do you get honest reviews hence the whole #ad contraversy in recent times)

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/7ZvD/mcdonalds-chicken-mcnuggets-featuring-lebron-james

Are you saying Paula and Lizzie are selling their souls....you wouldn't say that to their faces.

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

Are you saying Paula and Lizzie are selling their souls....you wouldn't say that to their faces.

Have edited and clarified my point recommendations are all fine and good but that does not add weight to the efficacy.

If it works for you great more power to you but ill bring it back to your original points

M.m.m. wrote: »

Vitamins are big business the world over and mostly not a proven science so its easy to promote them or shoot them down..

This is why I have an honest unbiased opinion of the ingredients of this product, not in comparison to others (as said probably is better than many) but on its own merits which don't stack up to the claims that " its the closest thing to taking something illegal while being legal" . Simple fact is you can actually probably buy all the ingredients cheaper and make your own with effective doses.

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/7ZvD/mcdonalds-chicken-mcnuggets-featuring-lebron-james

Sports people are not infallible to superstition, recommendations etc. If someone recommends you something and you are able to get it free because you are high profile most people are willing to give something a try (if legal) That is not an argument for the efficacy.

Sponsorship is big business, just take a look at Irish bloggers and you will see people will say anything for free gear, rarely do you get honest reviews hence the whole #ad contraversy in recent times)

Well that's a matter of opinion. Anyone with any integrity about their reputation won't do that.
Even wanting to use it for free would require some faith in the product and the science.

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

Have edited and clarified my point recommendations are all fine and good but that does not add weight to the efficacy.

If it works for you great more power to you but ill bring it back to your original points



This is why I have an honest unbiased opinion of the ingredients of this product, not in comparison to others (as said probably is better than many) but on its own merits which don't stack up to the claims that " its the closest thing to taking something illegal while being legal" . Simple fact is you can actually probably buy all the ingredients cheaper and make your own with effective doses.

You only succeeded in confusing me, your own original argument is that its all nonsense but now you think it can work for people.

OOnegative

Testosterscone wrote: »

Sponsorship is big business

Exactly, and point I was making. Likes of Lizzie could do with any extra few bob in her pocket to help with whatever in her career.

M.m.m.

OOnegative wrote: »

Exactly, and point I was making. Likes of Lizzie could do with any extra few bob in her pocket to help with whatever in her career.

Any what about Paula and Tracy Piggott?


I just couldn't see Tracy Piggott endorsing rubbish for a few quid

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

You only succeeded in confusing me, your own original argument is that its all nonsense but now you think it can work for people.

My original post said it was expensive pee coloring I stand by that the ingredients that have any decent backing to them are under dosed.

My comment there was about placebo effect (which ironically has more scientific backing that majority of ingredients and claims here so the statements are non contradictory

Testosterscone

OOnegative wrote: »

Exactly, and point I was making. Likes of Lizzie could do with any extra few bob in her pocket to help with whatever in her career.

Would imagine it’s priducts only generally it’s way supplement companies work as good few of the northern runners were are sent same products

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

My original post said it was expensive pee coloring I stand by that the ingredients that have any decent backing to them are under dosed.

My comment there was about placebo effect (which ironically has more scientific backing that majority of ingredients and claims here so the statements are non contradictory

But have you studied these formula's Luke?
Are you an expert in this field?
Honestly, sometimes I read your posts about running and I know you're spot on, its easy to see you have a long history and interest in running.


But you say some things about other stuff and I'm baffled at how you act like you've a guru on the topic. It seems quite arrogant.



https://www.her.ie/health/tried-tested-dietary-supplement-revive-active-31552