Religious hate-speech in the UK or fearless speaker of truth?

4068ac1elhodqr

smacl wrote: »

As per my previous post, perhaps you'd like to link your sources for 'many researchers' because I've looked and all I see the Quilliam report sitting on top of a two previous CEOPs reports which it uses in a rather dubious manner and a bunch of newspaper articles. The Quilliam report has been accused of being flawed and biased, see Grooming Gangs: Quilliam & the Myth of the 84 Percent. Which of the articles and studies surrounding this topic do you find more compelling and why?

Sure, you can debate the Quilliam report day and out.

But here's a more basic 'litmus test'...

When is the last time you heard or even seen member mugshots about a large organised convicted grooming group from any other specific 'culture' (other than RCC priests, which is a lifestyle-occupation anyway).

On a similar scale, to the recent exposures of these specific gangs in the UK:

Rochdale,
Rotherham,
Oxford,
Telford,
Leeds,
Birmingham,
Norwich,
Burnley,
High Wycombe,
Leicester,
Dewsbury,
Middlesbrough,
Peterborough,
Bristol,
Halifax &
Newcastle.

Do you think the other stats from offical sources are 'made up' also? e.g.

12% of convicted rapists in Eng & Wales are Muslim (whether or not they're mostly British-Pakistani isn't specified).

15% of the prison population E&W is also Muslim (crimes against the person is the largest classification).

recedite

smacl wrote: »

As for the notion that the actions of these gangs somehow reflect on the broader community from which they're drawn, even the Quilliam report notes the following..

You are drawing the wrong conclusions there. Quilliam is quite happy to blame the muslim communities in the northern towns, because Quilliam only represents a small and privileged band of wealthy London based British Asians. They consider themselves superior to those in the northern towns, and also to those in the Islamicised London working class suburbs such as Luton where TR hails from. And perhaps they are superior. But they are not representative of those others, who vastly outnumber them.


Here's what one prominent and proudly muslim politician had to say...

the London-based Quilliam Foundation is "a bunch of men whose beards are tame, accents crisp, suits sharp, and who have a message the government wants to hear".

Recedite, The Majestic One

robindch

recedite wrote: »

TR was not having it though...

It's not the only thing which SYL isn't having these days - seems that, together with Twitter, even free-wheeling Paypal has had enough of Yaxley-Lennon's inflammatory rhetoric:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46139193

recedite

robindch wrote: »

Itogether with Twitter, even free-wheeling Paypal has had enough..

In a statement, Paypal said it could not comment on individual customers but added that it regularly reviewed accounts to ensure their use aligned with its acceptable use policy

Somebody has been pulling strings again. But are you not at all concerned that private companies such as these have the power to censor and control public political debate and activity?
As the crowdfunding donations were used primarily to launch a very expensive Supreme Court appeal to get Tommy out of jail during his unlawful imprisonment, it seems that the pursuit of justice is now contrary to paypal's "acceptable use policy".


Recedite, The Bountiful One

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

Somebody has been pulling strings again. But are you not at all concerned that private companies such as these have the power to censor and control public political debate and activity?
As the crowdfunding donations were used primarily to launch a very expensive Supreme Court appeal to get Tommy out of jail during his unlawful imprisonment, it seems that the pursuit of justice is now contrary to paypal's "acceptable use policy".


Recedite, The Bountiful One

Otherwise known as grifting. I cant believe people still fall for his nonsense.

recedite

recedite wrote: »

Somebody has been pulling strings again. ]

Who has been pulling which strings and why?
You keep alluding this the vast and elaborate conspiracy against this guy.

Please explain who do you think is involved? How do they weld such power?

Is it secret Muslims? Lizard people?

mcmoustache

King Mob wrote: »

Who has been pulling which strings and why?
You keep alluding this the vast and elaborate conspiracy against this guy.

Please explain who do you think is involved? How do they weld such power?

Is it secret Muslims? Lizard people?

(((Globalists)))?

ancapailldorcha

recedite wrote: »

Somebody has been pulling strings again.

Proof?

recedite

King Mob wrote: »

Who has been pulling which strings and why?

I don't know. Its probably a mixture. Some people in influential positions like this guy. Others like yourself, people who feel some sense of self-satisfaction when they feel they are "punching a nazi". Paypal will easily cave in to such people because "corporate values" as always, are really only to make money and to get more subscribers.


Lets look at what just happened..

But Mr Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, said: "They just don't like my opinion and want to silence me.
"The government and establishment can see I have public support, they can see I have the ability to fight back."
He said Paypal had also frozen "a lot" of money that was in the account for 180 days...
In May, Mr Robinson, 35, was jailed for contempt of court. The 13-month sentence sparked a series of #freetommy protests and a conviction which was later quashed after procedural concerns.

Is it really such a bad thing when crowdfunding technology is used to get an innocent man out of jail?
Do you even accept that he was unlawfully arrested and unlawfully imprisoned at Leeds earlier this year?
Do you think an appeal all the way to the UK Supreme Court and a judgement by the Lord Chief Justice, the top lawyer in the UK, comes cheap?

If an appeal is successful, as this one was, then the appellant is considered vindicated. The original conviction is considered wrongful. Can you not accept that fundamental fact?



Recedite, The Loving One

recedite

recedite wrote: »

I don't know. Its probably a mixture. Some people in influential

Par example? And evidence of same?

recedite wrote: »

Others like yourself, people who feel some sense of self-satisfaction when they feel they are "punching a nazi".

Oh boy, I've never been part of a conspiracy before!

recedite wrote: »

Recedite, The Loving One

Are you picking these out of a hat?

ohnonotgmail

King Mob wrote: »

Par example? And evidence of same?


Oh boy, I've never been part of a conspiracy before!


Are you picking these out of a hat?

well out of somewhere, certainly.

recedite

King Mob wrote: »

Par example? And evidence of same?

The example was actually a link.

King Mob wrote: »

Oh boy, I've never been part of a conspiracy before!

Congrats, its your lucky day :pac:

King Mob wrote: »

Are you picking these out of a hat?

All will be revealed in the fullness of time.

Will you now answer the questions I asked you 2 or 3 posts back?


Recedite, The All-Pervading One

recedite

recedite wrote: »

The example was actually a link.

Cool beans.
Evidence that he used his influence to get paypal to do anything?
Any evidence that he's involved in the conspiracy?
Any motive in particular for him to be so corrupt? Is he being paid? Or just evil?

recedite wrote: »

All will be revealed in the fullness of time.

Recedite, The All-Pervading One

You know there's a function in boards that allows you to apply a signature so you don't have to keep signing it each time.

recedite

King Mob wrote: »

Cool beans.
Evidence that he used his influence to get paypal to do anything?
Any evidence that he's involved in the conspiracy?
Any motive in particular for him to be so corrupt? Is he being paid? Or just evil?

He's not evil, but he is most definitely a follower of Islam. And he receives a nice salary from the UK taxpayer.

From the link..

Nazir Afzal the Crown Prosecution Service’s lead on child sexual abuse and violence against women and girls says "There is no religious basis for the abuse in Rotherham".

That's it. He knew that in advance of any prosecutions. And he's in a position where he gets to say who gets prosecuted and who does not. Just think about that for a second.
And there are loads more just like him in control of local councils, boroughs, police, social services etc..


Most of the abuse and rape allegations have been in the public domain for many years, but the investigations only started much more recently. Like after people such as the bould Tommy started asking questions. But then he got locked up (several times) on various spurious and overblown minor charges.

King Mob wrote: »

You know there's a function in boards that allows you to apply a signature so you don't have to keep signing it each time.

I'm using a different sig each time, but when I settle on one I might use that function, thanks. Which one of them do you think suits me best?

And are you ready to answer my previous questions yet?


Recedite, The Wise One

recedite

recedite wrote: »

He's not evil, but he is most definitely a follower of Islam. And he receives a nice salary from the UK taxpayer.

From the link..That's it.
...
And there are loads more just like him in control of local councils, boroughs, police, social services etc..

And by "just like him" you mean...?
Also Muslims?
Or...?

recedite wrote: »

I'm using a different sig each time, but when I settle on one I might use that function, thanks. Which one of them do you think suits me best?

Recedite, The Wise One

None. They all sound incredibly like you're trying too hard.
I'm honestly perplexed by your logic in using them.

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

He's not evil, but he is most definitely a follower of Islam. And he receives a nice salary from the UK taxpayer.

From the link..That's it. He knew that in advance of any prosecutions. And he's in a position where he gets to say who gets prosecuted and who does not. Just think about that for a second.
And there are loads more just like him in control of local councils, boroughs, police, social services etc..


...................

O Noes!!!! The Islamics conspiracy is takin over!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hector Savage

recedite wrote: »

Your video of John Bercow above shows an MP abusing parliamentary privilege by using it to insult and slander a fellow citizen from a location where he has immunity to any possible legal defamation proceedings. A cowardly act indeed.

Mr. Bercow also whinges in a somewhat undemocratic and unconstitutional way that he has no control over "the other place".
That "other place" is the House of Lords, and to provide fair context and balance to what he was saying, we would also have to view the video which offended him. That involved Lord Pearson complimenting Tommy as "a most remarkable man, not at all what the mainstream media would have you believe".
As well as being an eloquent speaker, the Baron of Rannoch also shows he has a good understanding of Islam, and of the relationship between the koran and the hadiths (unlike some of his more vocal critics).

As for the "burden of proof" when making allegations, you made the allegations concerning Tommy Robinson's alleged criminal activities, so its up to you to cite links to them.

You're wasting your time trying to argue sense in here, "Atheists" that sneer at all religions except Islam - they seem to love that crap here.

Pherekydes

Hector Savage wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying to argue sense in here, "Atheists" that sneer at all religions except Islam - they seem to love that crap here.

I don't know why this garbage gets repeated on a regular basis in this forum without any repercussions. It's a straight up lie.

Odhinn

Hector Savage wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying to argue sense in here, "Atheists" that sneer at all religions except Islam - they seem to love that crap here.

..........another "post & run" snide remark.

Hotblack Desiato

Can't be bothered posting counterexamples YET AGAIN.

robindch

Mod:

Hector Savage wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying to argue sense in here, "Atheists" that sneer at all religions except Islam - they seem to love that crap here.

In line with the broad remit of the new forum charter update, one or more of your fellow posters has called you out upon this truth-claim.

Can you please either substantiate this claim or retract it?

thanks.

Odhinn

robindch

The following video is quite interesting as it's the earliest instance I can find of the "the UK has no-go areas for police" claim. In this case, it was made by Vatican rebel archbishop Marcel Lefebvre back in 1989, though it's not clear whether he fabricated the claim himself or acquired it from elsewhere.

His SSPX has since fractured into one group which is the mainstream SSPX outfit which has made a partial reconciliation with the Vatican and the other styles itself the "SSPX Resistance" which believes that Pope Francis is the incarnation of Satan, that main problem with Hitler was a bad press, that the Holocaust didn't really happen, that climate change is a hoax and so on.

Anyway, Marcel, take it away (from 2:00). The rest of the SSPX video can be found on this playlist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efMwONIeRl8

Hotblack Desiato

Splitters!

robindch

Gerard Batten, the (current) UKIP leader, has announced that Christopher Yaxley-Lennon, alias "Tommy Robinson", is doing to advise him on "on grooming gangs and prisons":

Batten wrote:

I have appointed Tommy Robinson to be a personal special adviser on two subjects which he has great knowledge. It is not necessary for him to be a party member in order to assist me in this role. I am looking forward to working with him.

Presumably Lennon was chosen for the first advice role on account of his peculiar interest in grooming children and the second, on account of his lengthy prison sentences.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/22/tommy-robinson-ukip-grooming-gangs-adviser

ancapailldorcha

After all that work by Nigel Farage to convince people that UKIP aren't a racist party.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

his peculiar interest in grooming children and the second, on account of his lengthy prison sentences.

Neither of which is actually true.
His interest in rape gangs obviously stems from his ambition to stop them.
His spells in prison have been reasonably short, because he has developed an expertise in extricating himself from unlawful imprisonment.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tommy-robinson-appointed-as-ukips-grooming-gangs-and-prison-reform-adviser-a3997726.html

he will advise Mr Batten on rape gangs and prison reform. Mr Batten said the English Defence League founder had "great knowledge" about the issues.
Robinson was jailed for 13 months for contempt of court in relation to his activities filming people involved in a grooming case.

The sentence was later quashed and the case has been referred to the Attorney General.

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

Neither of which is actually true.
His interest in rape gangs obviously stems from his ambition to stop them.
His spells in prison have been reasonably short, because he has developed an expertise in extricating himself from unlawful imprisonment.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tommy-robinson-appointed-as-ukips-grooming-gangs-and-prison-reform-adviser-a3997726.html

I would call 12 months for assaulting a police officer a long prison sentence.

recedite

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

12 months for assaulting a police officer

If you're talking about this incident then it happened many years ago, before he developed the expertise, and public support, and the financial and legal backing that he has now.

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

robindch wrote: »

Presumably Lennon was chosen for the first advice role on account of his peculiar interest in grooming children and the second, on account of his lengthy prison sentences.

Neither of which is actually true.
His interest in rape gangs obviously stems from his ambition to stop them.
His spells in prison have been reasonably short, because he has developed an expertise in extricating himself from unlawful imprisonment.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tommy-robinson-appointed-as-ukips-grooming-gangs-and-prison-reform-adviser-a3997726.html

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I would call 12 months for assaulting a police officer a long prison sentence.

recedite wrote: »

If you're talking about this incident then it happened many years ago, before he developed the expertise, and public support, and the financial and legal backing that he has now.

You said neither of the things that Robdinch said was true. Whatever about the first (though his interest in child grooming only when it involves muslims is peculiar) the second was most definitely true.

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

Neither of which is actually true.
His interest in rape gangs obviously stems from his ambition to stop them.
His spells in prison have been reasonably short, because he has developed an expertise in extricating himself from unlawful imprisonment.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tommy-robinson-appointed-as-ukips-grooming-gangs-and-prison-reform-adviser-a3997726.html

Most of his imprisonment seems entirely lawful. I'd suggest that rather than devolping expertise, he's instead able to afford better legal advice.

ancapailldorcha

recedite wrote: »

Neither of which is actually true.
His interest in rape gangs obviously stems from his ambition to stop them.

Nonsense. They are his source of revenue which explains why he keeps interfering with attempts to bring them to justice.

ohnonotgmail

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Nonsense. They are his source of revenue which explains why he keeps interfering with attempts to bring them to justice.

Exactly. Without them he has no grift.

robindch

Odhinn wrote: »

Most of his imprisonment seems entirely lawful. I'd suggest that rather than devolping expertise, he's instead able to afford better legal advice.

While Yaxley-Lennon seems well-able to afford excellent legal advice, his multiple trips to the slammer suggests that he's not very good at finding it.

robindch

recedite wrote: »

His interest in rape gangs obviously stems from his ambition to stop them.

I don't recall Yaxley-Lennon saying much about - for example - the Catholic Church which, via its historical concealment of child abuse, would amount to a far larger "rape gang" than the islamic guys he seems obsessed with.

Just a shot in the dark here, but would it be that Yaxley-Lennon is actually the racist thug he seems to be and is just whipping up fear, shite and ignorance about this one gang because this they happen to be both non-white and non-christian?

ohnonotgmail

robindch wrote: »

I don't recall Yaxley-Lennon saying much about - for example - the Catholic Church which, via its historical concealment of child abuse, would amount to a far larger "rape gang" than the islamic guys he seems obsessed with.

Just a shot in the dark here, but would it be that Yaxley-Lennon is actually the racist thug he seems to be and is just whipping up fear, shite and ignorance about this one gang because this they happen to be both non-white and non-christian?

Or about members of his own organisation that have been jailed for similar offences.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

just whipping up fear, shite and ignorance about this one gang because this they happen to be both non-white and non-christian?

One gang? Displaying your ignorance here.


Also, when the Lord Chief Justice of the UK Supreme Court orders the immediate release of a prisoner and quashes the conviction, and somebody says " the imprisonment was entirely lawful" that person has very little understanding of law.


The fact that the process of getting that kind of justice through the courts costs a lot of money is an unfortunate fact of life.

ohnonotgmail

Perhaps this is why they consider him an expert on grooming?

https://twitter.com/MikeStuchbery_/status/1065717001023303681

recedite

recedite wrote: »

One gang? Displaying your ignorance here.


Also, when the Lord Chief Justice of the UK Supreme Court orders the immediate release of a prisoner and quashes the conviction, and somebody says " the imprisonment was entirely lawful" that person has very little understanding of law.


The fact that the process of getting that kind of justice through the courts costs a lot of money is an unfortunate fact of life.

Hey, any chance you'll go back an answer my question now you've reappeared on this thread:

King Mob wrote: »

And by "just like him" you mean...?
Also Muslims?
Or...?
.

PopePalpatine

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Perhaps this is why they consider him an expert on grooming?

https://twitter.com/MikeStuchbery_/status/1065717001023303681

I believe that's what his comrades call "nurturing dependence".

recedite

King Mob wrote: »

Hey, any chance you'll go back an answer my question now you've reappeared on this thread:

Part of the same "community" as they would call it themselves.

ohnonotgmail

If tommy is unsure on any part of grooming he can always look to some of his mates for advice

https://twitter.com/edlnews/status/1065893403156774922

recedite

recedite wrote: »

Part of the same "community" as they would call it themselves.

Sorry, could you be more specific?
Which community are you referring to and why are you putting it in scare quotes?

recedite

King Mob wrote: »

.. scare quotes?

They are called inverted commas.


You should know that multi-culturalism leads to multi-tribalism, and in England nowadays they have many different "communities". For example...

Six years previously, there had been two nights of riots between the city's black and Asian communities in nearby Lozells. A young black man, Isaiah Young-Sam, had been killed. Now, after the raid on the petrol station, some among the Asian community were openly talking of revenge.

Of course, we only have to look a short distance to the two communities in Northern Ireland to see that these things are not just based on race or skin colour. There are a lot of factors involved. Ethnicity, religion, kinship, language, culture, closed social circles, they all play a part to some extent.
The one thing you can be sure of is that when the chips are down, members of a specific community will tend to have each other's backs.

There is an allegiance there, that goes beyond the allegiance to the state and/or the wider society.

recedite

recedite wrote: »

They are called inverted commas.

They are also called scare quotes in certain circumstances.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

recedite wrote: »

There is an allegiance there, that goes beyond the allegiance to the state and/or the wider society.

So to be clear, you are accusing judges of being involved in a conspiracy letting people off and your only evidence for this is that they are of the same race/community as those people?
Is that a correct summation?

smacl

recedite wrote: »

You should know that multi-culturalism leads to multi-tribalism, and in England nowadays they have many different "communities".

This is why we see interculturalism often being preferred to multiculturalism in egalitarian society, with a shift away from identity politics. It is proponents of the far right that push the 'us and them' worldview which prefers to polarise opinion against specific groups based on race and religion. This is clearly evident in the remarks of Yaxley-Lennon who would seek to punish all British Muslims for the crimes of a tiny minority and echoed in the anti-Muslim sentiments expressed in this thread.

recedite

King Mob wrote: »

They are also called scare quotes in certain circumstances.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

Interesting woman Gertie, who first coined the term "scare quotes". A native of Limerick apparently, who studied under Wittgenstein and became an abortion clinic protestor.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._E._M._Anscombe

King Mob wrote: »

So to be clear, you are accusing judges of being involved in a conspiracy letting people off and your only evidence for this is that they are of the same race/community as those people?
Is that a correct summation?

You're always trying to trick me into saying something racist :pac:
Maybe some day you'll succeed. But not yet.

recedite

BTW I've taken your advice and given up the silly titles.
I got as far as number 65 in the end, but yez can read the rest of them yourselves.

Even Allah himself gave up after 99. His original title for the project was My 1000 Greatest Names.


Interesting though, how sometimes they seemed vaguely appropriate to the posts I made, a bit like you can read stuff into a horoscope if you really want to.

recedite

recedite wrote: »

You're always trying to trick me into saying something racist :pac:
Maybe some day you'll succeed. But not yet.

But what you are doing is suggesting a racist conspiracy theory that certain people are being let off because they share the same race/culture/whatever with various judges etc.

Your only is that some judges etc do share the same race/culture/whatever.
Nothing else.

If it isn't racist, you're going to have to stop being vague and coy and actually explain how it's not.
Cause it really, really looks like it is.

Also, if that the reason for the titles?
It's a very silly reason...

smacl

recedite wrote: »

Interesting though, how sometimes they seemed vaguely appropriate to the posts I made, a bit like you can read stuff into a horoscope if you really want to.

حقًّا ؟ يا لهُ من هراء عديم الفائدة ، أليس كذلك ؟