Religious hate-speech in the UK or fearless speaker of truth?

Odhinn

Charmer at it again.....

"Following a threat of legal action, British far-right activist Tommy Robinson has backed down from accusations he made against a Syrian schoolboy who was attacked in an incident shared widely on social media. Earlier this week, footage emerged showing the 15-year-old -- a refugee from Syria -- being taunted, grabbed by the throat and pushed to the ground, as other students at Almondbury Community School in Huddersfield, northern England, looked on.
Robinson made allegations against the teenager Wednesday and Thursday in a number of Facebook and YouTube videos. By Friday, he had deleted the videos and admitted to posting a fake photograph purporting to show violence by a Muslim gang."
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/30/uk/tommy-robinson-syrian-refugee-gbr-intl-scli/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1vyWuHQPPoi_t5FP0ObJAutCpT6UN4ZmP3EDbJRnFgoRtVHvuR9q-Wywg

recedite

TR gave an open and frank overview of the whole situation. It seems that the playground incident was dealt with adequately by the school, but there is back story involving assault on a girl from "the English community" which the media are not publicising.
Anyway the whole sorry episode shows that tensions are high in the northern towns of England between separate communities, and this tension has been building up for years. Partly as a result of "the Asian community" shouting racist whenever anyone from outside the community tries to shine a light inside its closed ranks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsgiA7lwUs8

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

TR gave an(.............)

TR is a racist football hooligan.

robindch

recedite wrote: »

this tension has been building up for years

I wonder how that could have happened! :rolleyes:

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

TR gave an open and frank overview of the whole situation. It seems that the playground incident was dealt with adequately by the school, but there is back story involving assault on a girl from "the English community" which the media are not publicising.
Anyway the whole sorry episode shows that tensions are high in the northern towns of England between separate communities, and this tension has been building up for years. Partly as a result of "the Asian community" shouting racist whenever anyone from outside the community tries to shine a light inside its closed ranks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsgiA7lwUs8

would this be the same tommy who published lies regarding the background to the incident?

recedite

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

would this be the same tommy who published lies regarding the background to the incident?

You wouldn't want to believe everything you see posted on facebuke. The reality is we don't know the full story behind this incident. Pupils and staff in the school would know. Its the kind of minor scuffle that goes on in schoolyards every day, but if this was one kid attacking another kid purely because the victim was Syrian, then it was "well out of order" as TR said.
But he is also right to ask why 30 burly bearded Pakistani gentlemen protested at the school gates and wouldn't go away until they were allowed to barge in and "have a word" with the school principal. Why have the Syrians come under the protection of these Pakistanis anyway? Its a long way from Syria to Pakistan, Syria is far closer to Europe than it is to the Indian subcontinent. The obvious connection is Islam, of the strict Sunni variety.
I see Jamal's family have got over £120,000 so far in crowdfunding which they intend to use to relocate themselves out of 'Uddersfield. It probably wasn't the best place to send them in the first place, given the tensions already existing there.


With the Islamic State largely defeated now in Syria, the fighters and supporters have moved to Turkey and Europe (and Idlib which is a northern province of Syria which Erdogan is de facto trying to annex)
But those Syrians who wish to live in a secular arab republic are rebuilding the country from their base in Damascus. An international trade fair held in that city a few weeks ago showcases a fairly prosperous and optimistic society...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBpAlEGfK3k

Former ISIS fighters not welcome though, unfortunately.

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

You wouldn't (/..................), unfortunately.

More muslim fixated crap? It's gas how "You wouldn't want to believe everything you see posted on facebuke. The reality is we don't know the full story behind this incident." is something you never seem to apply when it suits, or vomits forth from lennon.

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

You wouldn't want to believe everything you see posted on facebuke. The reality is we don't know the full story behind this incident. Pupils and staff in the school would know. Its the kind of minor scuffle that goes on in schoolyards every day, but if this was one kid attacking another kid purely because the victim was Syrian, then it was "well out of order" as TR said.
But he is also right to ask why 30 burly bearded Pakistani gentlemen protested at the school gates and wouldn't go away until they were allowed to barge in and "have a word" with the school principal. Why have the Syrians come under the protection of these Pakistanis anyway? Its a long way from Syria to Pakistan, Syria is far closer to Europe than it is to the Indian subcontinent. The obvious connection is Islam, of the strict Sunni variety.
I see Jamal's family have got over £120,000 so far in crowdfunding which they intend to use to relocate themselves out of 'Uddersfield. It probably wasn't the best place to send them in the first place, given the tensions already existing there.


With the Islamic State largely defeated now in Syria, the fighters and supporters have moved to Turkey and Europe (and Idlib which is a northern province of Syria which Erdogan is de facto trying to annex)
But those Syrians who wish to live in a secular arab republic are rebuilding the country from their base in Damascus. An international trade fair held in that city a few weeks ago showcases a fairly prosperous and optimistic society...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBpAlEGfK3k

Former ISIS fighters not welcome though, unfortunately.

Sorry, my question was rhetorical. Tommy did spout made up nonsense about the background to this incident.

https://twitter.com/MikeStuchbery_/status/1068171851250237440/photo/1

Editing my post as boards.ie does not show the tweet just a link.

robindch

Things within the far-right movement seem at least down under, to be coming apart a little at the seams.

One of Yaxley-Lennon's friends, the Australian neo-nazi Neil Erikson, has done the dirty on the splendid Milo Yiannopoulos and released a series of documents which suggest that Milo is something of a whinging pom, and a heavily-indebted one at that. In one recent court case taken against him by his former employer, Erikson described himself as "a simple forklift driver" while rationalwiki described him as having "the brain of a 12 year old idiot trapped in the body of a fully grown moron".

The Guardian looked into Erikson's spat with Yiannopoulos here. While Mr Erikson's website shows Yiannopoulos' documents here, and he described the perfumed, but unfortunate, Milo as a "TOTAL money hungry SHILL".

As per usual, with individuals who self-promote by indulging in hate speech, Mr Erikson is involved with multiple, ongoing court cases and is seeking your money to help him fight what he seems to believe is a good fight. Interested people can donate as much as they wish to Mr Erikson here.

TomSweeney

Odhinn wrote: »

TR is a racist football hooligan.

Brilliant ... I suppose Douglas Murray is too ??

ancapailldorcha

TomSweeney wrote: »

Brilliant ... I suppose Douglas Murray is too ??

Spectator writer so I'll go with professional troll.

TomSweeney

recedite wrote: »

TR gave an open and frank overview of the whole situation. It seems that the playground incident was dealt with adequately by the school, but there is back story involving assault on a girl from "the English community" which the media are not publicising.
Anyway the whole sorry episode shows that tensions are high in the northern towns of England between separate communities, and this tension has been building up for years. Partly as a result of "the Asian community" shouting racist whenever anyone from outside the community tries to shine a light inside its closed ranks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsgiA7lwUs8

Makes a lot of sense, all this uproar is purely cos the kid is Syrian, happens everyday with all kids ... but cos it's white perp. on Syrian victim - it seems its much much worse.


either way it's out of order, but not any more so than other bullying cases.


Nice 150k payday for the kid too ... ching ching ...

thegreengoblin

Anyone who looks to that low life thug Robinson/Yaxley Lennon to back up their opinion needs to reassess where they're going in life.

TomSweeney

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Anyone who looks to that low life thug Robinson/Yaxley Lennon to back up their opinion needs to reassess where they're going in life.

I judge the video by the contents of that video.
That's it.

thegreengoblin

TomSweeney wrote: »

I judge the video by the contents of that video.
That's it.

So you'd never judge the agenda behind it?

TomSweeney

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Spectator writer so I'll go with professional troll.

Yep, that's it , he's a priofessional troll, he makes zero good points about the whole Islam issue.


Always amazed how much the left will bury their heads in the sand over all this.

TomSweeney

thegreengoblin wrote: »

So you'd never judge the agenda behind it?

Explain it to me so ...


Wait he just hates all muslims and brown people yeah ? and wants the UK white again ??

thegreengoblin

TomSweeney wrote: »

Explain it to me so ...


Wait he just hates all muslims and brown people yeah ? and wants the UK white again ??

He's a rabble rouser and is trying to normalise hate. If you can't grasp that by now you must be blind or just pig ignorant.

TomSweeney

thegreengoblin wrote: »

He's a rabble rouser and is trying to normalise hate. If you can't grasp that by now you must be blind or just pig ignorant.

I think he calls out hate and bigotry from Islamists more than anything.


The one thing that slightly puts me off him is he says "Muslims" a lot, when really he should say Islam, it's about the ideology not the people.
He should make it clearer.


Which is why I prefer Murray.

thegreengoblin

TomSweeney wrote: »

I think he calls out hate and bigotry from Islamists more than anything.


The one thing that slightly puts me off him is he says "Muslims" a lot, when really he should say Islam, it's about the ideology not the people.
He should make it clearer.


Which is why I prefer Murray.

But he doesn't and that tells you everything.

ancapailldorcha

TomSweeney wrote: »

Always amazed how much the left will bury their heads in the sand over all this.

Straight from the anti-fact, right wing bollixology playbook.

Odhinn

TomSweeney wrote: »

I judge the video by the contents of that video.
That's it.

"It says what I like so I like it"

TomSweeney

Odhinn wrote: »

"It says what I like so I like it"

It says what's true so I agree with it.

smacl

TomSweeney wrote: »

It says what's true so I agree with it.

What he says in that video amounts to a bunch of unsupported and entirely anecdotal claims from people he hasn't even met. Him using such a claim, on what turns out to be fictitious information, to spout more vitriolic BS is what has, by his own admission, led him to make this video. What specific statements in that video are you claiming to be true and how do you support that asserted truth?

TomSweeney

smacl wrote: »

What he says in that video amounts to a bunch of unsupported and entirely anecdotal claims from people he hasn't even met. Him using such a claim, on what turns out to be fictitious information, to spout more vitriolic BS is what has, by his own admission, led him to make this video. What specific statements in that video are you claiming to be true and how do you support that asserted truth?

What's true is this would not get the same coverage if it were the other way around or 2 white kids, or 2 black kids ...
What's true is it happened weeks ago and had been dealt with.
What's true is that kids life is over (he did a scummy thing , but really , he has a life sentence now) and is in hiding.
What's true is he is getting death threats - his siblings too ...

What's true is he was not waterboarded ...
What's true is Robinson did post false info but in this video he acknowledges it.




Again, I prefer Murray, TR is a bit muddy with his past so it's hard to defend him, but people go right off the deep end on him and will dismiss EVERYTHING he says as lies - I think it's denial with people and they wanna feel things aren't actually that bad - and you know what - I hope they are right.
I hope you are right and I am just too negative.


Sadly, I fear it's not the case and TR is closer to the truth than we'd like to believe.

smacl

TomSweeney wrote: »

What's true is this would not get the same coverage if it were the other way around or 2 white kids, or 2 black kids ...

You do realise you're on a thread that is dealing with media reports of assaults by Muslim gangs on non-Muslims? Of course both sides get coverage and the alt-right playing the victim card because they're being unfairly treated by the evil left wing media is getting as tiresome as it is inaccurate. If this is your notion of truth, I'd suggest you step back and have a look at the bigger picture as there are a number of conflicting agendas in play here. Attempting to use every conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims as a tool to further polarise people amounts to incitement in my book, and is actually a cause of this type of conflict rather than a remedy. Similarly holding a huge number of people responsible for the actions of an individual simply because they share the same nominal religion is utter nonsense. It is sectarianism, plain and simple, and anyone from Ireland should realise full well where that leads.

TomSweeney

^^ Point taken, I have deflected a bit.

recedite

smacl wrote: »

Of course both sides get coverage.

The incident involving the Syrian lad being pushed into a puddle got extensive media coverage, leading to a nice payout for him.
But when TR reported that parents in the school had contacted him about much more serious injuries inflicted by "Asian gangs" previously in the same school, those reports were dismissed as lies.
I have no idea whether those reports were true or not. If they were, they should get equal or more coverage. Even if they were not true, TR is still correct to say "it was reported to me by parents that.." As long as he keeps the emails from the parents safely filed away, he is blameless for any misinformation given to him. He can sleep soundly knowing that he can defend himself in any court of law on this. It just puts him in the same position as any media source which says "it was alleged by Joe bloggs that..." That is to say, the publisher of the report is not necessarily responsible for the veracity of the original claim, they are merely reporting that Joe Bloggs made the claim.

smacl wrote: »

You do realise you're on a thread that is dealing with media reports of assaults by Muslim gangs on non-Muslims?

I'm not sure what this thread is supposed to be "dealing with" but I suspect it was set up to deflect from any correlation that Islam may have between any such reports, and instead to disparage the man best known for making that correlation; TR

Especially given that the first post by the originator of the thread (which was not me) remarks as follows...

robindch wrote: »

...Bit silly referring to them as a "muslim* rape gang" then, eh?

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

The incident involving the Syrian lad being pushed into a puddle got extensive media coverage, leading to a nice payout for him.

He was held down by the throat. A little bit more than being pushed into a puddle. Hopefully the courts will ensure he is appropriate punished.

recedite wrote: »

But when TR reported that parents in the school had contacted him about much more serious injuries inflicted by "Asian gangs" previously in the same school, those reports were dismissed as lies.
I have no idea whether those reports were true or not. If they were, they should get equal or more coverage. Even if they were not true, TR is still correct to say "it was reported to me by parents that.." As long as he keeps the emails from the parents safely filed away, he is blameless for any misinformation given to him. He can sleep soundly knowing that he can defend himself in any court of law on this. It just puts him in the same position as any media source which says "it was alleged by Joe bloggs that..." That is to say, the publisher of the report is not necessarily responsible for the veracity of the original claim, they are merely reporting that Joe Bloggs made the claim.
I'm not sure what this thread is supposed to be "dealing with" but I suspect it was set up to deflect from any correlation that Islam may have between any such reports, and instead to disparage the man best known for making that correlation; TR

Especially given that the first post by the originator of the thread (which was not me) remarks as follows...

He claims to be a journalist. he published photos claiming to be those of a victim from the same school. the photos were taken from a completely different incident in a different town. No attempt to check his sources. He published them without question because they suited his agenda. He doesnt realise that others are not as thick as him and his supporters.

recedite

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He was held down by the throat. A little bit more than being pushed into a puddle. Hopefully the courts will ensure he is appropriate punished.

And as TR said, that was "well out of order".
Nevertheless its not particularly severe; far worse happens in school yards every day of the year.
If the courts sentence the perp, it won't be because of "what he did". It will be because "who did it to who". And that of course, will only make tensions worse.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He claims to be a journalist. he published photos claiming to be those of a victim from the same school. the photos were taken from a completely different incident in a different town.

But as soon as he discovered the photos related to a different incident, he took them down and apologised for reposting them, which happened within hours.

BTW this does not mean that the photos werent real, just that they did not relate to this particular. Nor does it mean that the serious incidents alleged to have been perpetrated by the asian gangs in the same school did not happen.


What it means is this;

1. Facebuke is not a great source of facts.
2. Anyone wanting to be a journalist must be careful to use the phrase "it was reported to me by Joe bloggs..." or "sources say.." before repeating any allegations being made by Joe. Even if the allegations seem to be legit.

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

And as TR said, that was "well out of order".
Nevertheless its not particularly severe; far worse happens in school yards every day of the year.
But as soon as he discovered the photos related to a different incident, he took them down and apologised for reposting them, which happened within hours.

BTW this does not mean that the photos werent real, just that they did not relate to this particular. Nor does it mean that the serious incidents alleged to have been perpetrated by the asian gangs in the same school did not happen.


What it means is this;

1. Facebuke Tommy Robinson is not a great source of facts.
2. Anyone wanting to be a journalist must be careful to use the phrase "it was reported to me by Joe bloggs..." or "sources say.." before repeating any allegations being made by Joe. Even if the allegations seem to be legit.

FYP

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

And as TR said, that was "well out of order".
Nevertheless its not particularly severe; far worse happens in school yards every day of the year.
If the courts sentence the perp, it won't be because of "what he did". It will be because "who did it to wh"o. And that of course, will only make tensions worse.
But as soon as he discovered the photos related to a different incident, he took them down and apologised for reposting them, which happened within hours.

BTW this does not mean that the photos werent real, just that they did not relate to this particular. Nor does it mean that the serious incidents alleged to have been perpetrated by the asian gangs in the same school did not happen.


What it means is this;

1. Facebuke is not a great source of facts.
2. Anyone wanting to be a journalist must be careful to use the phrase "it was reported to me by Joe bloggs..." or "sources say.." before repeating any allegations being made by Joe. Even if the allegations seem to be legit.

I take it that the only linkage between the Syrian boy and "asian gangs" is the fact they are implied to both be muslim? It has to be said that this kind of thing underlines your (and lennons) bigotry more than anything else.

recedite

Odhinn wrote: »

I take it that the only linkage between the Syrian boy and "asian gangs" is the fact they are implied to both be muslim? It has to be said that this kind of thing underlines your (and lennons) bigotry more than anything else.

How is it bigoted to ask that question? What do you think yourself, or would you care to comment on it?
As mentioned earlier, it seems a bit odd to me. We can only speculate. Different part of the world, different language. But there you go.

recedite wrote: »

.. if this was one kid attacking another kid purely because the victim was Syrian, then it was "well out of order" as TR said.
But he is also right to ask why 30 burly bearded Pakistani gentlemen protested at the school gates and wouldn't go away until they were allowed to barge in and "have a word" with the school principal. Why have the Syrians come under the protection of these Pakistanis anyway? Its a long way from Syria to Pakistan, Syria is far closer to Europe than it is to the Indian subcontinent. The obvious connection is Islam, of the strict Sunni variety...

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

How is it bigoted to ask that question?

Because its not just one question, its "muslims, muslims, muslims" on and on and on. "but look at what the muslims did" is the classic cry of those with an islamophobic agenda.

smacl

recedite wrote: »

I have no idea whether those reports were true or not. If they were, they should get equal or more coverage.

That say's it all really. You have one piece of information that we know to be true which you're comparing against another piece of anecdotal evidence of unknown veracity and you're suggest the latter should be given the same or even greater weight on the basis of your own personal biases. Seriously Rec?

recedite

Odhinn wrote: »

Because its not just one question, its "muslims, muslims, muslims" on and on and on. "but look at what the muslims did" is the classic cry of those with an islamophobic agenda.

But you are avoiding it now. What do you think the connection is? This is a discussion, after all.

smacl wrote: »

That say's it all really. You have one piece of information that we know to be true which you're comparing against another piece of anecdotal evidence of unknown veracity and you're suggest the latter should be given the same or even greater weight on the basis of your own personal biases. Seriously Rec?

No. Did you not notice the bit where I said "If they were true".

robindch

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He claims to be a journalist. he published photos claiming to be those of a victim from the same school. the photos were taken from a completely different incident in a different town. No attempt to check his sources. He published them without question because they suited his agenda. He doesnt realise that others are not as thick as him and his supporters.

Journalist? Good lord :pac:

Here's the bold Chris-Tommeh winding himself up not once, but twice, about stories published by the excellent news satire site, Southend News Network:

https://southendnewsnetwork.net/news/tommy-robinson-just-fell-for-another-southend-news-network-story/

Poor little Tommy - isn't life just so unfair!!!

TomSweeney

https://twitter.com/phil_smith197/status/1070044490495352834

This is just fine though .... wonder will this girl get 150k on a gofundme ?

recedite

Fake News is a funny old thing alright.
But whether its a good or a bad thing, well that depends...

robindch wrote: »

stories published by the excellent news satire site..

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

..published lies..

Odhinn wrote: »

"It says what I like so I like it"

smacl wrote: »

.. a bunch of unsupported and entirely anecdotal claims... how do you support that asserted truth?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

anti-fact bollixology.

TomSweeney wrote: »

professional troll..

ohnonotgmail

robindch wrote: »

Journalist? Good lord :pac:

Here's the bold Chris-Tommeh winding himself up not once, but twice, about stories published by the excellent news satire site, Southend News Network:

https://southendnewsnetwork.net/news/tommy-robinson-just-fell-for-another-southend-news-network-story/

Poor little Tommy - isn't life just so unfair!!!

Thats what he calls himself. What i call him is not fit to print.

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

Fake News is a funny old thing alright.
But whether its a good or a bad thing, well that depends...

so you think tommy posting made up stories is possibly a good thing? interesting.

smacl

TomSweeney wrote: »

This is just fine though .... wonder will this girl get 150k on a gofundme ?

Maybe she should, seems to be plenty of anti-Muslim bigots out there with deep pockets. Maybe Tommy could 'divert' a few bob from Pegida given his form. :rolleyes:

Odhinn

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Thats what he calls himself. What i call him is not fit to print.

He's not entirely thick. He didn't hang around for the attempted launch of an irish branch of pegida for instance.

TomSweeney

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you think tommy posting made up stories is possibly a good thing? interesting.

You're right, point negated completely, everything he posts is totally made up with zero truth in them.

TomSweeney

Odhinn wrote: »

He's not entirely thick. He didn't hang around for the attempted launch of an irish branch of pegida for instance.

Yeah, I do remember all those 'anti fascist' peaceful tolerant protesters beat up people that dared to have different opinions.


Fair play to them

Odhinn

TomSweeney wrote: »

Yeah, I do remember all those 'anti fascist' peaceful tolerant protesters beat up people that dared to have different opinions.


Fair play to them

Gas though. You would have thought the "master race" would have embraced the simple darwinian clash of "tooth and claw" and emerged the victor.

TomSweeney

Odhinn wrote: »

Gas though. You would have thought the "master race" would have embraced the simple darwinian clash of "tooth and claw" and emerged the victor.

I don't know I wasn't there, but whats this about a "master race" ?

is that what they were claiming ??



Don't think so.

ohnonotgmail

TomSweeney wrote: »

I don't know I wasn't there, but whats this about a "master race" ?

is that what they were claiming ??



Don't think so.

Yeah those white supremacists dont believe in that at all.

robindch

Odhinn wrote: »

You would have thought the "master race" would have embraced the simple darwinian clash of "tooth and claw" and emerged the victor.

Have people who self-describe as white supremacists and/or the alt-right generally used the term "master race"?

I don't immediately recall that they have, though they have recycled a lot of other racist, supremacist and isolationist nonsense.

ohnonotgmail

robindch wrote: »

Have people who self-describe as white supremacists and/or the alt-right generally used the term "master race"?

I don't immediately recall that they have, though they have recycled a lot of other racist, supremacist and isolationist nonsense.

whte supremacy is the belief that white people are superior to other races. So even if they do not use the phrase Master Race outright it is implied.