A question for Peter Casey voters

Spanish Eyes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I fully agree, that's a big number. But one question, and a serious one. Would you not prefer someone smarter than Casey who would campaign for the Dail on a manifesto of being tough on Traveller & other crime?

Casey was very smart. He might not be the articulate monkey that spouts everything but says nothing, but he tapped into the Zeitgeist pretty damn quick all the same.

He will not run for the Dail, but may encourage others to do so on his platform.

He is a legend.

Seathrun66

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Casey was very smart. He might not be the articulate monkey that spouts everything but says nothing, but he tapped into the Zeitgeist pretty damn quick all the same.

He will not run for the Dail, but may encourage others to do so on his platform.

He is a legend.

Stumbled into it I'd say. And it's a subjective opinion but from the interviews on TV and in print I though he was far and away the least clever of the candidates.

tretorn

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I fully agree, that's a big number. But one question, and a serious one. Would you not prefer someone smarter than Casey who would campaign for the Dail on a manifesto of being tough on Traveller & other crime?

The ones who are smarter than Casey are already in Dail Eireann, I am still annoyed over Leo the non leader pretending that he was outraged about what peter Casey said. He reads the court reports the same as the rest of us do and if he doesnt he should, he can see the same traveller names popping up time and time again so he has to know there is a problem.

He knows the statistics for traveller participation in education, he knows the vast majority of them dont work and have huge families, he wont take any leadership on this matter even though he also knows rural communities are under siege, he wont say anything because he is afraid it will dint his modern progressive liberal image.

If travellers pull up near his apartment he will be on the blower to the Garda Commissioner within ten minutes and they will be shifted back to Limerick immediately.

So no, we dont need anymore of these type of people in Dail Eireann.

The Bishop Basher

Seathrun66 wrote: »

That's fine in terms of the Travellers you've met but you're pre-judging those you haven't. Fits in perfectly with the definition.

Once again you’re misinterpreting the definition but there’s no point going round in circles on it. Just expect to be called on it.

Seathrun66 wrote: »

There are people of certain nationalities I've met and not particularly liked. But I don't assume that everyone else from those countries are as bad. I wait until I come across them.

Likewise. To assume that would be prejudiced so same as yourself, I wouldn’t make those kind of assumptions.

I don’t know why but you seem determined to demonstrate your lack of understanding of the word and it’s meaning..

I’m not prejudiced and no matter how many times you say it won’t make it true.

Spanish Eyes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Stumbled into it I'd say. And it's a subjective opinion but from the interviews on TV and in print I though he was far and away the least clever of the candidates.

Fair enough, but he was clever enough to see how stifled most people's opinions are regarding the entitlement culture v the working person paying for it all (who do not have a voice, remember).

He tapped into that, and it worked.

Political parties, take note... and do not denigrate those who pay for everything, but get little back.

A fiver + a bonus for those who do nothing is a kick in the teeth for those out working who will get a euro or so, and no bonus. Feck that really.

Hhugedick

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I fully agree, that's a big number. But one question, and a serious one. Would you not prefer someone smarter than Casey who would campaign for the Dail on a manifesto of being tough on Traveller & other crime?

Well I have no affiliation with peter Casey before two weeks ago, in two weeks he brought traveller behaviour to the front pages, countless TD in the last 6 years have gone thru the fail and never once open there mouth or done anything about traveller gangs tying up elderly people in there homes. I say 6 years because its 6 years since a gang of travellers entered our life and left my grandfather traumatised out of there head on cocaine and drink.. Needless to say the liberal court system looked kindly on there rough upbringing and there all out of jail now. The gang involved in my grandfathers breakin are scum.

Seathrun66

Rennaws wrote: »

Once again you’re misinterpreting the definition but there’s no point going round in circles on it. Just expect to be called on it.



Likewise. To assume that would be prejudiced so same as yourself, I wouldn’t make those kind of assumptions.

I don’t know why but you seem determined to demonstrate your lack of understanding of the word and it’s meaning..

I’m not prejudiced and no matter how many times you say it won’t make it true.

I'm puzzled by your inability to see the link between your reaction to someone from another country, say Belgium, you hadn't met and a Traveller you hadn't met. If you've had bad experiences with both Belgians and Travellers in the past why would it now be prejudiced to think badly of Belgians but not prejudiced to think badly of Travellers you'd not met. Both are prejudiced and you've said you 'despise' Travellers including the nearly 30,000 you've not met. So how can you despise them and not be prejudiced against them?

Seathrun66

Hhugedick wrote: »

Well I have no affiliation with peter Casey before two weeks ago, in two weeks he brought traveller behaviour to the front pages, countless TD in the last 6 years have gone thru the fail and never once open there mouth or done anything about traveller gangs tying up elderly people in there homes. I say 6 years because its 6 years since a gang of travellers entered our life and left my grandfather traumatised out of there head on cocaine and drink.. Needless to say the liberal court system looked kindly on there rough upbringing and there all out of jail now. The gang involved in my grandfathers breakin are scum.

All I'm asking is whether Casey himself is good enough for you (as he doesn't seem the most reliable in terms of getting that crime reduction done) or someone more aware of what can be done with Gardai numbers, legislation, etc. And I reckon that's the way FF may go now.
Also, sorry to hear about your grandfather, horrible experience.

Silentcorner

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Stumbled into it I'd say. And it's a subjective opinion but from the interviews on TV and in print I though he was far and away the least clever of the candidates.

I think he stumbled onto it, out of political naivety tho, he had previously refused to identify as a feminist (the rest did) which was risky.

I'm not mad about Dragons Den but I have watched it.

Peter Casey was the most impressive, he seemed least affected by ego, Gallagher was always had a pathetic air about him, Duffy had a nasty little attitude I never warmed to, turns out Casey is far more successful than the rest of them.

Up until the moment he refused to identify as a feminist I thought he was a disaster, I couldn't fathom why he was running.

It is no accident, that the most personally successful of the three dragons, and indeed, the 6 candidates showed the greatest strength of character, even though he was unpolished and a little scatty (who wouldn't be in the same circumstances) ...he showed that character because it runs deep within him, he has needed that strength in the past to succeed on three different continents, he has been tested.

He was honest and frank about his ability to fail as he was about his ability to succeed, he spoke warmly about his wife it was obvious she plays a huge part in his life and he recognises it, there was nothing fake about him, and it turns out, when you go back to the starting point of this race, he is the only one that has come out this enhanced, he has made the biggest impact on Irish people for some time.

His naivety has manifested in his belief that he can join FF and rise through the ranks (George Lee, Peter Matthews could tell you how pointless that is), he is not a genius, he just has that inner self confidence that I happen to really admire in people, us Irish don't have enough of it!

Spanish Eyes

Hopefully this is a wake up call to all Political Parties who have hidden behind various PC mantras up to now.

Will be interesting to see what they have to say now.

Delicate balance ... preserve the received wisdom that everyone that needs help gets it. Fine.

But ensure that those who are paying for it are treated equally also. Not happening.

And Traveller mayhem and criminality will be sorted. Snort here now. sorry.

The Bishop Basher

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I'm puzzled by your inability to see the link between your reaction to someone from another country, say Belgium, you hadn't met and a Traveller you hadn't met.

And I’m equally puzzled by your apparent inability to see the difference.

It’s purely down to statistics and percentages.

I have no reason to regard someone from Belgium with any degree of caution or suspicion.

I’ve learned through numerous personal experiences that travelers are dangerous, likely to be trying to rob me and best avoided at all costs.

Seathrun66

Rennaws wrote: »

And I’m equally puzzled by your apparent inability to see the difference.

It’s purely down to statistics and percentages.

I have no reason to regard someone from Belgium with any degree of caution or suspicion.

I’ve learned through numerous personal experiences that travelers are dangerous, likely to be trying to rob me and best avoided at all costs.

If you've met 29,950 Travellers and they were all bad you still can't say all Travellers are bad as you've not met 50 of them. You've pre-judged them. And that's what you're doing here.

A role at the Oxford English Dictionary is not for you.

Spanish Eyes

Seathrun66 wrote: »

If you've met 29,950 Travellers and they were all bad you still can't say all Travellers are bad as you've not met 50 of them. You've pre-judged them. And that's what you're doing here.

A role at the Oxford English Dictionary is not for you.

Do Travellers really want to meet the Settled, or Country people as they call them?

The Bishop Basher

Seathrun66 wrote: »

If you've met 29,950 Travellers and they were all bad you still can't say all Travellers are bad as you've not met 50 of them. You've pre-judged them. And that's what you're doing here.

A role at the Oxford English Dictionary is not for you.

I never said they’re all bad.

Seathrun66

Seathrun66 wrote: »

If you've met 29,950 Travellers and they were all bad you still can't say all Travellers are bad as you've not met 50 of them. You've pre-judged them. And that's what you're doing here.

A role at the Oxford English Dictionary is not for you.

You're being disingenuous. Their reputation is universally negative, and therein lies the rub in your argument. I can't proclaim to have met every traveller up and down the land, but every single experience has been unpleasant at best. Not one non-traveller I know can speak positively of them, and when I read an article or hear a report it unfailingly speaks of criminality and lawlessness. A multiplier effect if you will, and the evidence is damning.

Seathrun66

Rennaws wrote: »

I never said they’re all bad.

You said you despise Travellers. Not some.

But hey, let's leave it at that and enjoy your evening.

Seathrun66

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Do Travellers really want to meet the Settled, or Country people as they call them?

Honestly can't answer that. Those I've met don't mix that much and I think much has to do with self-esteem. Hence the suicide rates.

Seathrun66

Deleted User wrote: »

You're being disingenuous. Their reputation is universally negative, and therein lies the rub in your argument. I can't proclaim to have met every traveller up and down the land, but every single experience has been unpleasant at best. Not one non-traveller I know can speak positively of them, and when I read an article or hear a report it unfailingly speaks of criminality and lawlessness. A multiplier effect if you will, and the evidence is damning.

Higgins speaks very positively of them. As I do. I've only had good experiences at school, work, etc. Though I'm fully aware that's far from the average experience here.

Spanish Eyes

Look we can stay on this thread forever. All around the houses or caravans.

How do many Travellers live it easy with mansions, new cars, jeeps, gravestones etc.

I am sure they are tax compliant. But they know that even the CAB is afraid of them.

That needs to change.

RasTa

RasTa wrote: »

Him and O'brien aren't tax resident in Ireland. According to your logic travelers pay tax as well.

You don’t pay vat when you rob


:pac:

Marhay70

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Higgins speaks very positively of them. As I do. I've only had good experiences at school, work, etc. Though I'm fully aware that's far from the average experience here.

You appear to be taking the same line on a different tack you as are castigating others for. You have, you say, a good experience of travellers so therefore you think all travellers are similar to the ones you know, Has it not become obvious to you on this thread that you are in a small minority? The vast majority of people on this island have not been so lucky and you have to accept that, in the same way ypu expect us to accept your positve account.
I can tell you now that in my life I have had nothing but bad experiences with travellers and I honestly couldn't name one person in my immediate area who has.
If you look at the election results you will see that the smallest percentage of votes for Casey was in affluent areas like North East Dublin and South East Dublin, that itself speaks volumes. These areas don't suffer in the same way as less affluent areas or vulnerable isolated areas.

Deebles McBeebles

Try_harder wrote: »

On Late Debate - @bridsmithTD talking about Casey’s Traveller nonsense. “Last year the entire budget for Traveller Accommodation was €12m - we gave the horse racing industry €67m”

Another waste of money.

Seathrun66

Marhay70 wrote: »

You appear to be taking the same line on a different tack you as are castigating others for. You have, you say, a good experience of travellers so therefore you think all travellers are similar to the ones you know, Has it not become obvious to you on this thread that you are in a small minority? The vast majority of people on this island have not been so lucky and you have to accept that, in the same way ypu expect us to accept your positve account.
I can tell you now that in my life I have had nothing but bad experiences with travellers and I honestly couldn't name one person in my immediate area who has.
If you look at the election results you will see that the smallest percentage of votes for Casey was in affluent areas like North East Dublin and South East Dublin, that itself speaks volumes. These areas don't suffer in the same way as less affluent areas or vulnerable isolated areas.

Not at all. I clearly said that my good experiences are not replicated by others on here. I'm not so naive to believe that all my future experiences with Travellers will be uniformly positive. Similarly I'm not so naive to believe that all my future interactions with red-haired people will be positive. I'll just take all my dealings with people as they come.

On this thread I'm in the minority. But don't extrapolate the contents here to the country. As per the vote on Friday I'm in the very clear majority. Anecdotal evidence of bad experiences has to be respected but don't make assumptions for the entire country based on what you and your friends have to say.

Deusexmachina

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Trying not to be. Just a simple point saying it's unfair to 'despise' (his words) an entire people based on some bad experiences. I believe it's incorrect to assume that every last member of that community is bad.

Of course not EVERY LAST MEMBER is bad. Nobody is saying that. The fundamental point he is making (and it turns out that may people agree with) is that the Traveller Community are not some special race that deserve to be treated differently to the rest of us.
They should be judged solely on their behaviour (like the rest of us). When they demand free stables for their horses before taking up their free luxury houses, in a time of rampant homelessness, they should be called out.
They have not been a positive contributor to society. In fact they have GENERALLY been a complete pain in the arse (not all of them, not all the time, but most of them, most of the time).
I would hate to live beside 90% of them. So would you.

Seathrun66

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Of course not EVERY LAST MEMBER is bad. Nobody is saying that. The fundamental point he is making (and it turns out that may people agree with) is that the Traveller Community are not some special race that deserve to be treated differently to the rest of us.
They should be judged solely on their behaviour (like the rest of us). When they demand free stables for their horses before taking up their free luxury houses, in a time of rampant homelessness, they should be called out.
They have not been a positive contributor to society. In fact they have GENERALLY been a complete pain in the arse (not all of them, not all the time, but most of them, most of the time).
I would hate to live beside 90% of them. So would you.

Grazing land, not stables. Usual misreporting. I'd also, contrary to what you say, be happy to live beside most travellers, though not all. Have done before and do so now.

But much of what you say is true alas and in terms of housing & crime there are obviously things to improve.

Deusexmachina

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Grazing land, not stables. Usual misreporting. I'd also, contrary to what you say, be happy to live beside most travellers, though not all. Have done before and do so now.

But much of what you say is true alas and in terms of housing & crime there are obviously things to improve.

Really? I take it all back. Great bunch of lads.

SEPT 23 1989

Are they really comparing these people to those who are involved in the horse racing industry?

My god they are running out of arguments for this result fast

orourkeda1977

speckled_park wrote: »

Didnt vote. Would have voted casey if i had voted. Mdh if casey didnt make traveller comments. Maybe im a racist. Not a big fan of travellers. Most travellers ive met are no angels. Say most candidates personally arent fond of travellers but cant say that due to pr and pc. Look what results that got them (bar mdh). His comments werent exactly outrageous either.

His remarks about the housing in Tipp was accurate. How this can be classified as racist is a mystery to me?

Seathrun66

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

His remarks about the housing in Tipp was accurate. How this can be classified as racist is a mystery to me?

I don't think that racist is the right term. Derogatory yes. He classed all Travellers as the same, instead of just referring to the local ones. Generalisations may be popular but why didn't he just criticise the Tipperary people he was unhappy with?

Idbatterim

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/presidential-election/john-downing-caseys-voters-arent-racist-theyre-fed-up-37468789.html

is_that_so

And he's back! Probably for more punishment? May have even less hope here in the GE.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/casey-vows-he-cannot-be-bought-and-will-say-it-as-it-is-as-he-confirms-campaign-to-be-donegal-td-38855671.html

BrianBoru00

is_that_so wrote: »

And he's back! Probably for more punishment? May have even less hope here in the GE.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/casey-vows-he-cannot-be-bought-and-will-say-it-as-it-is-as-he-confirms-campaign-to-be-donegal-td-38855671.html

I think people will look back in a few years and see how harmless Peter Casey is/was. There's a reason Trump got elected and will be re elected.

There is a growing number of people growing more and more disillusioned with the state of the country . Two people working and trying to raise a family, struggling to pay mortgage and child care and they see the huge numbers of people who don't have to pay for anything yet the likes of MC gets plenty of air time for her "plight" despite getting everything for nothing including a house in Dublin.

The current government are completely out of touch with the common person in the street , so is rte _afraid to let people speak their mind save for the likes of MC...

Anyone calling out the likes of that woman or the majority of people from the travelling community or other minority groups or "asylum seekers" are shut down.

That is why Casey went from last to second place. And because of this , more and more people are going to swing to the right.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

And he's back! Probably for more punishment? May have even less hope here in the GE.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/casey-vows-he-cannot-be-bought-and-will-say-it-as-it-is-as-he-confirms-campaign-to-be-donegal-td-38855671.html

Lots more punishment. This is a real election this time, tougher candidates and he'll have to do a little more than just be *controversial*.

MrMusician18

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Lots more punishment. This is a real election this time, tougher candidates and he'll have to do a little more than just be *controversial*.

I don't know if he'll be elected in Donegal, but if he ran in Longford/Westmeath on an anti Traveller ticket, he'd top the poll.

FrancieBrady

They should start calling him Sideshow Pete. How many attempts will this be, Number 4?

is_that_so

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Lots more punishment. This is a real election this time, tougher candidates and he'll have to do a little more than just be *controversial*.

Yeah. He doesn't get that. He just thinks because he shows up and opens his mouth people will vote for him. He can expect a rough ride on all sides!

Edgware

is_that_so wrote: »

And he's back! Probably for more punishment? May have even less hope here in the GE.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/casey-vows-he-cannot-be-bought-and-will-say-it-as-it-is-as-he-confirms-campaign-to-be-donegal-td-38855671.html

This is the "Republican" constituency that elected Tom Gildea in a " Give us bbc TV" platform so anything is likely

Assuming they all run, he's up against the current incumbents;

The Cope (Leas-Ceann Comhairle, first elected by our Neolithic ancestors),
Joe McHugh (Minister for Ed. & Skills),
Pearse Doherty (Second in poll last time, hammered home in Don SW in 2010/11),
Chuck McConalogue (Topped the poll last time)
Thomas Pringle (In the Dail since 2011 and one for the lefties)

That's a tough constituency.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Assuming they all run, he's up against the current incumbents;

The Cope (Leas-Ceann Comhairle, first elected by our Neolithic ancestors),
Joe McHugh (Minister for Ed. & Skills),
Pearse Doherty (Second in poll last time, hammered home in Don SW in 2010/11),
Chuck McConalogue (Topped the poll last time)
Thomas Pringle (In the Dail since 2011 and one for the lefties)

That's a tough constituency.

Is the Cope not retiring?

Cienciano

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

I think people will look back in a few years and see how harmless Peter Casey is/was. There's a reason Trump got elected and will be re elected.

There is a growing number of people growing more and more disillusioned with the state of the country . Two people working and trying to raise a family, struggling to pay mortgage and child care and they see the huge numbers of people who don't have to pay for anything yet the likes of MC gets plenty of air time for her "plight" despite getting everything for nothing including a house in Dublin.

The current government are completely out of touch with the common person in the street , so is rte _afraid to let people speak their mind save for the likes of MC...

Anyone calling out the likes of that woman or the majority of people from the travelling community or other minority groups or "asylum seekers" are shut down.

That is why Casey went from last to second place. And because of this , more and more people are going to swing to the right.

I think people who voted for Trump realise nothing has actually changed, just a lot of broken promises and he won't get in again. I doubt he'll get in again.

is_that_so

Edgware wrote: »

This is the "Republican" constituency that elected Tom Gildea in a " Give us bbc TV" platform so anything is likely

Not any more. Lots of data analysis and polling going on and Casey is a complete lightweight in national politics. Field is way too tough for him.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is the Cope not retiring?

He's already been selected but that was back in 2018.

basillarkin

Cienciano wrote: »

I think people who voted for Trump realise nothing has actually changed, just a lot of broken promises and he won't get in again. I doubt he'll get in again.

Trump is a cert to be reelected evens at the bookies last time I checked. Sanders biden and Warren won't put up a good enough fight unfortunately

retalivity

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is the Cope not retiring?

Think he was supposed to, but FF dont have any decent candidates to replace him, so may be coerced to go again

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

He's already been selected but that was back in 2018.

Thought I read he was retiring, he's 72 now.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Thought I read he was retiring, he's 72 now.

I don't know but can't find anything. Broughan is going on as is O'Dowd, both are the same kind of vintage.

basillarkin

basillarkin wrote: »

Trump is a cert to be reelected evens at the bookies last time I checked. Sanders biden and Warren won't put up a good enough fight unfortunately

The incumbent is always favourite and especially given there's still so many Democrats running it's no surprise to see Trump as favourite.

If you look at the 'Winning Party' odds, there's very little between them.

Edgware

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Assuming they all run, he's up against the current incumbents;

The Cope (Leas-Ceann Comhairle, first elected by our Neolithic ancestors),
Joe McHugh (Minister for Ed. & Skills),
Pearse Doherty (Second in poll last time, hammered home in Don SW in 2010/11),
Chuck McConalogue (Topped the poll last time)
Thomas Pringle (In the Dail since 2011 and one for the lefties)

That's a tough constituency.

He hasn't a hope against such an array of political talent

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

I don't know but can't find anything. Broughan is going on as is O'Dowd, both are the same kind of vintage.

I can see why he might be pressured to stay on. It's gonna be a real ding dong in Donegal.

Edgware

Cienciano wrote: »

I think people who voted for Trump realise nothing has actually changed, just a lot of broken promises and he won't get in again. I doubt he'll get in again.

Don't believe the European media. Its the economy that decides election
Unemployment among African Americans and Hispanics is at its lowest ever. These are proper jobs not illegal immigrants hired by the rich.