Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

patsy_mccabe

I was slow to hand over a €10.......without a receipt, by the way.

jaymla627

alps wrote: »

Farmers reps or farmers coops cannot run meat factories. It is not in their nature to be brutal and callous enough in their dealings with staff and suppliers. History in this area is dismal....

€5000 euro shares, derelict factories....this trip is taking a strange turn

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme, this middle-man with the Chinese buyers is fairly iffy, given billion dollar food companies regularly get stung dealing with that country how would a small producer group fair, their would be container loads of meat shipped that a cent wouldn’t be got for....

wrangler

farawaygrass wrote: »

What was the downfall of that farmer owned factory? Was there a manager hired in to run it or the committee that set it up?

It was very susoect at the time, they got millions in grants and then sold it and wouldn't divulge the name of the buyer...... there was a committee, I don't know how they let it go so bad, there was two factories at one time in Leixlip and Cork. They treated the workers badly too, no redundancy.
So farmers can be as bad as beef barons

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

I can only regard legislation to force an industry to negotiate as a blatant liberty. everyone should be allowed conduct their business without interference, I might think different if those that run this country didn't make such a hash of everything and as you know I don't mean the politicians.
Is the beef forums record not an example of why not to let them interfere

It is more legislation to correct the imbalance between Processors/retailers and farmers. No business is allowed to conduct there business with out regulation. We farmers have to observe regulation, as do all business's from pubs to nursing homes. The Competition authority has allowed 3 processors to control 70%+ of the beef trade what is wrong scale being allowed on the other side. In every other industry except Agriculture business know months in advance there sale price. Bachelors do not sell beans t Dunnes without an advance price 3-4 months in advance, Kellogs the same why should farmer be any different.

patsy_mccabe

jaymla627 wrote: »

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme, this middle-man with the Chinese buyers is fairly iffy, given billion dollar food companies regularly get stung dealing with that country how would a small producer group fair, their would be container loads of meat shipped that a cent wouldn’t be got for....

If a guy is willing to pay €5/kg for beef when it is trading at €3.75, then that tells you all you need to know.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is more legislation to correct the imbalance between Processors/retailers and farmers. No business is allowed to conduct there business with out regulation. We farmers have to observe regulation, as do all business's from pubs to nursing homes. The Competition authority has allowed 3 processors to control 70%+ of the beef trade what is wrong scale being allowed on the other side. In every other industry except Agriculture business know months in advance there sale price. Bachelors do not sell beans t Dunnes without an advance price 3-4 months in advance, Kellogs the same why should farmer be any different.

Do you not think that it's that both parties insist on a contract, Farmers can insist on a contract all they like but while factories are able to get supplies from other farmers on their own terms why should they bother. I doubt there's any legislation forcing dunnes or batchelors to negotiate contracts

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I was slow to hand over a €10.......without a receipt, by the way.

They're doing nothing, if they want the other organisations out of the way they should outperform them not host a whingefest against them.
They're not marking Brexit in any way, yet they want the organisation that is marking it out of the way.....

ppn

My understanding is that Beef Plan Movement wants to rally as many Beef farmers as possible with an initial aim of 40,000 members (out of a possible 70-80,000+ beef farmers?)
They seem to be putting together county by county purchasing groups at present to lower input costs for members - fertiliser, fuel, meal - all very welcome.
I'm not sure that any organisation in its infancy, with currently approximately 15000 members we are told - less than 40% of its goal, can be expected to make immediate inroads against big business (meat factories and retail), otherwise you are not representing the majority of your base.
Maybe when they have 50%, 60%, 70% of beef farmers onboard, factories, Bord Bia, et. al will begin to take notice and realise that beef farmers aren't prepared to go down without a fight. There is a lot of anger out there and the last time I looked, the Angus or Hereford mince, steak, etc. isn't selling for nothing in the supermarkets, as many would have you believe, not to mention the restaurant business. Lads finishing dairy based beef can't even get the base price with O and P grades dominating.
Was it Teagasc that said recently (I can't find the article so I stand to be corrected) that Brexit could be a good thing for Irish dairy farmers as it could free up a lot of land, presumably, or obviously for that matter, at the expense of the defunct beef farmer in a worst case scenario?
We have a high quality largely grass-based product that should be marketed more effectively as such and seems to be well appreciated in the UK - our biggest customer (at the present time.....). Compare that to the factory feedlots, hormone-boosted US beef and climate change inducing South American beef (don't think cattle graze in the Amazon rainforest or what will be left of it in 20 years).

I don't think I have bashed any sector or organisation here, yet - just my tuppence worth. For €10 (I had no qualms writing them a cheque - its the price of two effing pints), I am happy as a beef farmer finishing weanlings to throw my hat in the ring while I still can - we could be wiped out if the UK balls it up (and if lads need a receipt, the organisers are easily contactable to arrange).
Christ, even if all we achieve is savings on our input costs and our voice to be heard, a tenner won't be missed and I doubt the organisers will be driving around in S-class Mercedes any time soon. Get rid of the penalties for 30-36 month cattle and that would be another win. Lucky we're not French, we would be burning effigies of Leo on the street corners...

Albert Johnson

Superb post above by ppn and raise several valid points. The BPM has only come to prominence in recent months and has achieved much publicity in this time. Despite it's protractors it has amassed a significant following this far and is gaining momentum all the time. It's a catch 22 situation as you need membership to achieve anything of important but struggle to gain members without having achieved some of your goals.

Any movement or organisation that indentifies the problems facing the beef sector as whole and attempts to introduce measures to combat these problems is worth supporting in my humble opinion. Let these measures be purchasing groups, producer groups or other proposal's there all of some benefit if enacted correctly.

Many lads are understandably disheartened with the sector in recent times. Between weather woes, economic concerns and the viewed lack of interest from established farming organisations in our plight it's not hard to be disillusioned. Many are at a crossroads regards there future in the beef industry and so called "journalism" from the media involving the benefits to be reaped following the demise of our sector is hard to take. The latest statements from that tool Varakar regarding the evils of meat consumption are yet another reminder of how disconnected the wider world is from our plight.

It's not hard to imagine why many feel that more needs to be done and that we require a dedicated movement to fight for our needs. We produce a premium product and should be adequately reimbursed for it. For years our focus has been centered on improving what lay within the farm gate but little has been done for us by those outside it. Therefore it's time for us to improve our own lot and take back some control of our future to ensure the continuation of the sector.

Every effort that is made against the established organisations is seen as an attack by its existing members. The IFA and it's equals should have nothing to fear from newcomers if they are already acting to the best of there abilities, transparency is only to be feared by those with something to hide. Provided that the BPN doesn't suffer from the same pitfalls as other organisations and remains steadfast to it's intitial aims then it should prosper if given support.

patsy_mccabe

Limerick Meeting - 22 Jan 19

Buford T. Justice XIX

Starting to get down to the brass tacks now. There's talks about forming 6 regional Co-ops and buying factories or contracting killing. Shares are currently being talked about at €5-10k each.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/six-multimillion-beef-plan-co-ops-proposed-433317

charolais0153

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Starting to get down to the brass tacks now. There's talks about forming 6 regional Co-ops and buying factories or contracting killing. Shares are currently being talked about at €5-10k each.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/six-multimillion-beef-plan-co-ops-proposed-433317

a bit more expensive than the 10er at the start

Buford T. Justice XIX

charolais0153 wrote: »

a bit more expensive than the 10er at the start

That was always going to be the case, I would have thought?

K9

Would they not be better of to just concentrate setting up purchasing groups in different counties and taking it from there.

wrangler

K9 wrote: »

Would they not be better of to just concentrate setting up purchasing groups in different counties and taking it from there.

It's not really worth all the effort just to set up purchasing groups, discount on inputs is only a help, it's not going to make the difference of survival or not.
This move to sell their own beef will test the strength of the support and, more to the point, tell them whether to waste any more time on it.
After all farmers can buy in on any level it seems.

alps

K9 wrote: »

Would they not be better of to just concentrate setting up purchasing groups in different counties and taking it from there.

Purchasing groups need stringent structure, and complete buy-in from its members. Buy in in terms of confidentiality, honesty in dealings, and on the button payment.

My view is that they an only ever work with a previously connected core as its start up. They need to be tidy in numbers and geographically beneficial for suppliers and very well administered.

Otherwise they can only be a discount provider, and in that matter, the question will always be, a discount from what....?

_Brian

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Starting to get down to the brass tacks now. There's talks about forming 6 regional Co-ops and buying factories or contracting killing. Shares are currently being talked about at €5-10k each.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/six-multimillion-beef-plan-co-ops-proposed-433317

Wonder what you get for your €10k ?

K9

alps wrote: »

Purchasing groups need stringent structure, and complete buy-in from its members. Buy in in terms of confidentiality, honesty in dealings, and on the button payment.

My view is that they an only ever work with a previously connected core as its start up. They need to be tidy in numbers and geographically beneficial for suppliers and very well administered.

Otherwise they can only be a discount provider, and in that matter, the question will always be, a discount from what....?

Sorry meant to say for selling to factories as well. If that can’t work, would setting up 6 co-ops work?

_Brian

The minute you mention €2million there a cnut somewhere rubbing his hands and making plans.

Be serious work to keep things on straight and narrow.

There would quickly be a need to have serious business heads on board, now money will start bleeding out in costs, expenses and wages.
Transparency and accountability will be key to ongoing support. A number of chaps drawing €50k plus salaries will test support pretty quick and yet nothing will happen otherwise.

Buford T. Justice XIX

_Brian wrote: »

Wonder what you get for your €10k ?

You get membership and voting rights in the co-op for that. And the right to have your cattle processed under whatever processing agreement is arrived at.


You will also have a right to partial ownership of any fixed assets such as processing plants bought and reopened, depending on how it's structured.


Those figures seem to be opening figures, there's talk later in the article of 1k to 2k shares being an option rather than 10k shares.

Zeebsisgone654

Anyone know why setup 6 coops, would not one coop be a stronger entity ?

patsy_mccabe

There's a belief out there that the factories are making massive margins on each animal. If that's not the case, and margins are in fact very tight, then setting up of these COOPs is a waste of time.
It would be like setting up an airline trying to tap into Ryanair's profits. Companies are usually successful because they have cut everything to the bone (pardon the pun) and run very lean operations.

_Brian

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

You get membership and voting rights in the co-op for that. And the right to have your cattle processed under whatever processing agreement is arrived at.


You will also have a right to partial ownership of any fixed assets such as processing plants bought and reopened, depending on how it's structured.


Those figures seem to be opening figures, there's talk later in the article of 1k to 2k shares being an option rather than 10k shares.

Will tie €10 members have the right to have cattle processed ?

coolshannagh28

I would imagine margins are very tight , the beef barons are rich because they process hundreds of thousands of cattle a year individually , they sell it on cheap to the UK multiples ; there is possibly space for the BPM to look higher up that market and create margin and outsource the processing if that was possible. Many variables here , the way Brexit is heading it could be best to hold fire before investing big money

Buford T. Justice XIX

_Brian wrote: »

Will tie €10 members have the right to have cattle processed ?

No, that money was just fundraising to hold meetings and admin for WhatsApp groups, I imagine.

The co-op set up is a very different process and won't be done overnight. That'll have to go through ICOS and set up rules and structures for it before they can look for membership iirc.

older by the day

It will difficult to see guys part time, with twenty cows, handing 5 or 10 thousand to buy shares in a meat factory, last time I bought shares was in eircom, that didn't go great. With brexit and climate change, super market cartels, having to find new marketing to stand out from what's there all ready. The eircom shares purchase don't sound to bad now

alps

K9 wrote: »

Sorry meant to say for selling to factories as well. If that can’t work, would setting up 6 co-ops work?

It wouldn't be right of me to say K9 as I havnt been to the meetings, but I would say that the amount of money spoken about is a massive amount of money for any farmer to hand over to anyone, especially without any track record in this business, and with the knowledge that many have tried and failed.

Co-ops or group selling can and does work (as Wrangler explained earlier) but don't underestimate the importance of sticking together in these models, and that I'm afraid has often been farmers downfall.

Bass Reeves

I called into the meeting tonight in Killmallock. I think it is very much a suckler focused group. Having said that they had a few very interesting speakers. There was a lad from Kilkenny doing rose veal. He was marketing at present to Hotels and specialist retailers. However he had sold some to Belgium. The meat he sold was grain fed but they were hoping because it was Irish that it would be grass fed. He is looking into the economics of it. He is looking into the production of it . He was saying HO friesians were the most suitable and about 4.2/ kg was about what the market pays. His calves killed about 195 kgs DW.

There was two meat wholesalers. Neither could deal with the processors. One had been dealing with them. He was supplying into high end Hotels and Food Halls in Asia but quality was too variable often because processors seemed unwilling to hang meat more than a day or two. He commented as well that Gordan Ramsey had a restaurant I think in Hong Kong that was doing an Irish Hereford sirloin but stopped because of variable quality of the product.
The other lad was the wholesalers that wanted to supply the Chinese market. While the price may seem high he want grass fed beef. From listening to him and the other two speakers there seems to be a market for grass fed beef we are not tapping into whether it is in Asia or in Europe. The processors seem to be into selling our QA hormone free beef as a commodity product. There seems a reluctance to brand it. However I think the main focus is on sucklers by the organization

Siamsa Sessions

Bass Reeves wrote: »

From listening to him and the other two speakers there seems to be a market for grass fed beef we are not tapping into whether it is in Asia or in Europe. The processors seem to be into selling our QA hormone free beef as a commodity product. There seems a reluctance to brand it.

I was at a social event on Monday night and the speaker was an "ex business executive" (no names or people may take a dislike). He was asked from the floor why beef wasn't given a brand like dairy products similar to Dairygold, etc.

He said he didn't know, but the brand at the moment seems to be no more than "Irish beef". That being the case, he said, what does "Irish" mean to consumers where our processors currently sell beef?

That was just one of the points he made, but overall, I got the sense that any product in the food/drinks game is nothing until it has a brand and is marketed properly.

Farmer

I wonder is it that a lot of our beef gets sold under supermarkets' own brand so there is no room for double branding

dzer2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I called into the meeting tonight in Killmallock. I think it is very much a suckler focused group. Having said that they had a few very interesting speakers. There was a lad from Kilkenny doing rose veal. He was marketing at present to Hotels and specialist retailers. However he had sold some to Belgium. The meat he sold was grain fed but they were hoping because it was Irish that it would be grass fed. He is looking into the economics of it. He is looking into the production of it . He was saying HO friesians were the most suitable and about 4.2/ kg was about what the market pays. His calves killed about 195 kgs DW.

There was two meat wholesalers. Neither could deal with the processors. One had been dealing with them. He was supplying into high end Hotels and Food Halls in Asia but quality was too variable often because processors seemed unwilling to hang meat more than a day or two. He commented as well that Gordan Ramsey had a restaurant I think in Hong Kong that was doing an Irish Hereford sirloin but stopped because of variable quality of the product.
The other lad was the wholesalers that wanted to supply the Chinese market. While the price may seem high he want grass fed beef. From listening to him and the other two speakers there seems to be a market for grass fed beef we are not tapping into whether it is in Asia or in Europe. The processors seem to be into selling our QA hormone free beef as a commodity product. There seems a reluctance to brand it. However I think the main focus is on sucklers by the organization

Hi Bass

As one of the original producer group that set up the rose veal. That lad in Kk wouldn't touch our cattle. I was producing 120 HD a yr. The finished carcass weight needed to be over 210kgs and under 240.
We bought the calves at 15 to 20 day old a bag a milk replacer. The cattle were metal fed with either straw, hay or maize silage. Anything under 210 kgs would break even. At the time we were getting 4.10 euro.

wrangler

Farmer wrote: »

I wonder is it that a lot of our beef gets sold under supermarkets' own brand so there is no room for double branding

Should be all labelled as Irish....labels mightn't be too big though and then we have the QA label.
I don't think labelling outside Ireland would be a help, might even be a hindrance.
Supermarket choice as to whether it goes on the top or bottom shelf

K9

dzer2 wrote: »

Hi Bass

As one of the original producer group that set up the rose veal. That lad in Kk wouldn't touch our cattle. I was producing 120 HD a yr. The finished carcass weight needed to be over 210kgs and under 240.
We bought the calves at 15 to 20 day old a bag a milk replacer. The cattle were metal fed with either straw, hay or maize silage. Anything under 210 kgs would break even. At the time we were getting 4.10 euro.

How much meal a day would they be fed and what age would they be slaughtered at?

Say my name

wrangler wrote: »

Should be all labelled as Irish....labels mightn't be too big though and then we have the QA label.
I don't think labelling outside Ireland would be a help, might even be a hindrance.
Supermarket choice as to whether it goes on the top or bottom shelf

It should be all labelled with the sire breed and the dam breed and age of animal.
Consumers wouldn't be long becoming Connoisseurs and producers wouldn't be long producing what the consumer requires. Rather than the lucky dip of looking for marbling in the freezers.
And others complaining of beef as tough as leather with gallons of gravy required to soften it up.

dzer2

They would eat a tonne of meal in the initial stage 18 percent ration and in the last 14 weeks 16 percent. Normally killed at 46 to 49 weeks

Farmer

Ballymore tonight at 8

Here's the rest of the list from
beefplan.Ie

UPCOMING MEETINGS
Sligo, Leitrim : Ballymote Mart - Jan 23rd, 8:00pm

Meath, Louth, Dublin : Ardboyne Hotel, Navan - Jan 24th 8:30pm

Galway : Ard Ri Hotel, Tuam - Jan 28th 8:00pm

Monaghan : Glencairn Hotel, Castleblaney - Jan 30th 8:00pm

Kerry : Castleisland Mart, - Feb 4th 7:30pm

Wicklow : Arklow Bay Hotel, Arklow - Feb 5th 8:00pm

Mayo : Mayo Sligo Mart Ballina - Feb 6th 8:00pm

Carlow : Dolmen Hotel, Feb 7th, 8:00pm

Roscommon : Elphin Mart, Feb 21st, 8:00pm

dzer2

Say my name wrote: »

wrangler wrote: »

Should be all labelled as Irish....labels mightn't be too big though and then we have the QA label.
I don't think labelling outside Ireland would be a help, might even be a hindrance.
Supermarket choice as to whether it goes on the top or bottom shelf

It should be all labelled with the sire breed and the dam breed and age of animal.
Consumers wouldn't be long becoming Connoisseurs and producers wouldn't be long producing what the consumer requires. Rather than the lucky dip of looking for marbling in the freezers.
And others complaining of beef as tough as leather with gallons of gravy required to soften it up.

Went for a meal in Austria last week. Had a steak wasn't sold by weight just by type.
Price ranged from 22 euro to 34. The steak was 90mm round easily 35mm high. I wasn't given a steak knife to cut it either. The quality and taste were top notch. Stayed in an apartment over a farmhouse the farmer 13 cows and 3 replacement at 2 yr old and 4 weanlings. He gave us a tour of the place. All his fodder was saved with a small forage wagon. He had machinery up to the value of 300k. He wasn't in partnership with any other Landowners I'm the area.

Bass Reeves

dzer2 wrote: »

Hi Bass

As one of the original producer group that set up the rose veal. That lad in Kk wouldn't touch our cattle. I was producing 120 HD a yr. The finished carcass weight needed to be over 210kgs and under 240.
We bought the calves at 15 to 20 day old a bag a milk replacer. The cattle were metal fed with either straw, hay or maize silage. Anything under 210 kgs would break even. At the time we were getting 4.10 euro.

All I can tell you is what he said at the meeting last night. He is of the opinion that there is a demand for grass fed rose veal. He gave a price for O2 grading rose veal bulls of 4.2/kg. They would be slaughtered at the 7 month stage from August to October/November. He said his calves were averaging 195DW. That would mean these bulls coming into 820 euro at a LW of 400-430kgs. The hardest part would be fat cover especially later in the year. I imagine you would be feeding ration at grass from start of year. On the plus side you have minimum nitrates but the animal would want to be going full tilt from the day it was born. The other issue would be meat colour IMO as it would more than likly be as red as normal beef.

_Brian

Was thinking today and with the whole Brexit mess why would the Beef plan start investing money into a project where Brittan is the market ??

dzer2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

dzer2 wrote: »

Hi Bass

As one of the original producer group that set up the rose veal. That lad in Kk wouldn't touch our cattle. I was producing 120 HD a yr. The finished carcass weight needed to be over 210kgs and under 240.
We bought the calves at 15 to 20 day old a bag a milk replacer. The cattle were metal fed with either straw, hay or maize silage. Anything under 210 kgs would break even. At the time we were getting 4.10 euro.

All I can tell you is what he said at the meeting last night. He is of the opinion that there is a demand for grass fed rose veal. He gave a price for O2 grading rose veal bulls of 4.2/kg. They would be slaughtered at the 7 month stage from August to October/November. He said his calves were averaging 195DW. That would mean these bulls coming into 820 euro at a LW of 400-430kgs. The hardest part would be fat cover especially later in the year. I imagine you would be feeding ration at grass from start of year. On the plus side you have minimum nitrates but the animal would want to be going full tilt from the day it was born. The other issue would be meat colour IMO as it would more than likly be as red as normal beef.

Veal is sold as white meat and to kill at that weight at that age they would have to be hiding a month or two before they were registered. Also veal has little to no marbling in it. One lad in the scheme was I'll for a while an a neighbour fed his cattle for 3 weeks and the factory were able to tell him the cattle were fed silage.

Albert Johnson

dzer2 wrote: »

Veal is sold as white meat and to kill at that weight at that age they would have to be hiding a month or two before they were registered. Also veal has little to no marbling in it. One lad in the scheme was I'll for a while an a neighbour fed his cattle for 3 weeks and the factory were able to tell him the cattle were fed silage.

The whole concept of veal as white meat and the associated negative opinions regarding the slaughter of calves is huge downfall of the above system. It's going to take some clever marketing to alleviate the public's concerns about eating veal in any great quantity. The domestic market is on somewhat shaky ground from the outset which leaves only exports to ensure success. Export markets are increasingly volatile due to changing world circumstances so perhaps not the best foundation on which to build our future.

From my analysis of the limited information available it seems that even supposed "grass" fed rose veal is still highly dependent on feeding large amounts of concentrates to achieve targets. Therefore it appears to me that it's just a more extreme version of bull beef, a high cost system depending on achieving stringent targets for often little profit. I can't see how the above will be little more than yet another big white elephant for many, there's profit perhaps for a few top class operators running tight ships but there in every system.

I've heard more about veal in recent weeks than in all my life heretofore, it's starting to remind me of the talk of miscanthus as a super crop over a decade ago. It's high time I attended our local meeting as I'd love to hear some of the scheme's being proposed straight from the horses month as it were.

Siamsa Sessions

Would the veal attract a new consumer? Or would the consumer who was going to choose steak now choose veal instead?

Is it only robbing Peter Steak to pay Paul Veal if the veal competes with the steak market?

Hard Knocks

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Would the veal attract a new consumer? Or would the consumer who was going to choose steak now choose veal instead?

Is it only robbing Peter Steak to pay Paul Veal if the veal competes with the steak market?

There would of been allot of veal late 90’s early 00’s, know we sold weanling suckler heifers for it, there was good beef kill at that time too

Track9

Reminds me of the Hype about Deer Farming circa 20 yrs back & Rabbits also .
Both these animals eat grass too .
The saying about the Klondike Gold Rush springs to mind & about the big winners in the Rush ( No it wasn't the guys finding the gold e. g farmers ) It was the guys selling the Shovels & Mules .
In today's world its the Form Fillers/ Consultants & Advisory Bodies .

Bass Reeves

There is a similar veal product in Canada and the US it is call pasture fed veal. It has not the same negatives connectivity of veal. I have my doubts as well it would be very seasonal (which is a problem) and trying to even shift 40-60K carcasses not to mind 100k would be a challenge . However shifting 50K carcasses at sub 200DW compared to 50K at 330K+ DW would reduce volume by 40%ish maybe more if these animals were taken to 30 months.

But the big thing I like about the BPM is that it seems to be looking at grass fed beef compared to grain fed. IMO when you are paying for ration as opposed to grass cost increases and profit decreases. Cost is killing us this year fertlizer is up by 30-40/ton, at the moment ration are 280ish/ton. Will ration come back 30/ton next summer???. 15 years ago I was paying 170/ton for ration by the pallet it is now 100/ton extra in bulk. If we can brand grass fed Beef it and not allow processors to control it like the AA and HE schemes we just might survive.

yosemitesam1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is a similar veal product in Canada and the US it is call pasture fed veal. It has not the same negatives connectivity of veal. I have my doubts as well it would be very seasonal (which is a problem) and trying to even shift 40-60K carcasses not to mind 100k would be a challenge . However shifting 50K carcasses at sub 200DW compared to 50K at 330K+ DW would reduce volume by 40%ish maybe more if these animals were taken to 30 months.

But the big thing I like about the BPM is that it seems to be looking at grass fed beef compared to grain fed. IMO when you are paying for ration as opposed to grass cost increases and profit decreases. Cost is killing us this year fertlizer is up by 30-40/ton, at the moment ration are 280ish/ton. Will ration come back 30/ton next summer???. 15 years ago I was paying 170/ton for ration by the pallet it is now 100/ton extra in bulk. If we can brand grass fed Beef it and not allow processors to control it like the AA and HE schemes we just might survive.

Is it 100% grass fed or grass fed with meal that they're looking at?

alps

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Is it 100% grass fed or grass fed with meal that they're looking at?

That won't matter when our certification gets at it..take the glanbia claim of a cow fed 95% on grass...this cow eats 5.5 tonnes dry matter of grass and 1 tonne of concentrate, but the claim is made on a fresh weight basis...

So if the combined dry matter of grass and grass silage eaten is say 20%, the cow will have eaten 27.5 tonnes of grass and 1 tonne meal...

The industry is about to follow suit with a certification of this through Bord Boa inspections this summer....

If it will work for dairy, it will work for beef

Albert Johnson

alps wrote: »

That won't matter when our certification gets at it..take the glanbia claim of a cow fed 95% on grass...this cow eats 5.5 tonnes dry matter of grass and 1 tonne of concentrate, but the claim is made on a fresh weight basis...

So if the combined dry matter of grass and grass silage eaten is say 20%, the cow will have eaten 27.5 tonnes of grass and 1 tonne meal...

The industry is about to follow suit with a certification of this through Bord Boa inspections this summer....

If it will work for dairy, it will work for beef

The certification may ensure a public perception of a green and grass fed product but this is only half the issue in my opinion. Any system that's reliant on feeding large amounts of concentrates to achieve it's aims is looking less sustainable in this country. We are at a competitive advantage with our ability to grow grass but are at a major cost disadvantage regarding cereals for animal feed.

As to how advocating another concentrate based system with ever increasing costs can be seen as helpful is in my mind misguided. There's lots of ways to be a busy fool in beef currently without campaigning for more. Feeding anything apart from grazed grass is going to add cost to the system regardless of whether the end consumer is aware of this fact or not.

It seems ironic to me at least that despite all the calls to market our beef as "green" and grass fed that many of the proposed solutions involve the complete opposite. I think we're at a crossroads and we as an industry need to assess whether our produce will be grass fed and a premium product or corn fed and a commodity. The end result will have more impact on our future than any beef blockades or splinter groups thus far.

I don't believe it's unfair to suggest that producing beef as a commodity product has done little other than inspire a race to the bottom regards returns to the primary producers. We cannot compete with other countries as regards cheap exports and should therefore desist from trying. The niche of a superior grass fed product is our only hope of survival in my opinion.

In response to the above quirp that it works for the dairy industry I am reminded of another quote from some other contributer on this forum. I can't remember the specifics but it was in regards to high imput dairying. It was reckoned that if they inheireted the keys to a feed mill that a high imput system would win hands down over any other, of course until the feed ran out. Grass versus grain may be the biggest obstacle to our future success as an industry.

manjou

the grass fed idea is good but unfortunately it comes down to price and perception led by advertising. every add for meat sees animals birds with there owners standing in a lovely green field even if said animals have never seen outside shed so people assume all meat on sale comes from these lush green pastures and so make choice based on price best example truly irish all farmers standing in green fields not in there piggeries. even with angus beef or organic they will purchase these first over others if there are same price or maybe give a bit extra but not alot it still will come down to price.

Farmer

manjou wrote: »

the grass fed idea is good but unfortunately it comes down to price and perception led by advertising. every add for meat sees animals birds with there owners standing in a lovely green field even if said animals have never seen outside shed so people assume all meat on sale comes from these lush green pastures and so make choice based on price best example truly irish all farmers standing in green fields not in there piggeries..........

Not everyone is falling for that though. Articles like this can undo alot of green marketing

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/het-leven-van-ierse-runderen-is-goed-behalve-als-ze-op-stal-moeten~bbd3218f/

(Hopefully your browser can translate this from Dutch but if not, you'll get the gist anyway)