Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Keep Sluicing

Cattlepen wrote: »

If it’s any consolation a gennet would do me!!. I see in agriland that the cap reform might be deferred for up to 3 years. That would do me grand . I’d ride the gennet around the farm twice a day laughing at the good of it all

I took over in 2011 even tho my dad still does a lot of day to day stuff. Spent 30grand on entitlements, my dad was fierce worried i was going to loose it all.
150 bullocks going to the factory each year till 4 years ago. Dropped to 120 ish. Now back to 53...... I'll eventually get that gennet! We'll be laughing cowboys then.

Dinzee Conlee

Grueller wrote: »

You have some horn for the young farmer Wrangler.
I work off farm but run 80 sucklers. I am a young farmer. I get all the top ups etc.
BUT I get up at 5:45 every morning, in the yard for 6:00. Out of it at 7:50. Back in it at 5:30 to 7:30-8:00 every evening. I work 7:00 til 6:00 on Saturdays and 7:00 til dinner time most Sundays.
This is the reality for me and most young farmers around my area. Yes my father helps out by keeping an eye on cows during the day but he does not calve them and I never meet him in the yard as he only potters out about 9:30 and does a bit of pottering about.
If payments were levelled maybe we couls afford to work off farm less and actually give farming a go. No? Much easier to criticise a whole group even though the ladder has been pulled up by the older farmers.

Not having a go Grueller - but why put in those hours?

If your current full time employer, asked you to work another 32hrs a week, for possibly not much of an increase - would you agree to it?

I know we all farm cos we like to, but is putting in the hours above really worth it?

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Not having a go Grueller - but why put in those hours?

If your current full time employer, asked you to work another 32hrs a week, for possibly not much of an increase - would you agree to it?

I know we all farm cos we like to, but is putting in the hours above really worth it?

I'd also imagine that putting in those hours you're not giving your best to your employer.
I wouldn't like to meet grueller on a friday evening

Dinzee Conlee

wrangler wrote: »

I'd also imagine that putting in those hours you're not giving your best to your employer.
I wouldn't like to meet grueller on a friday evening

Maybe...

But then I don't work near the same hours as Grueller on the farm - but I would be cranky enough too some Friday evenings

wrangler

I see BPM are still persisting in Bad Mouthing the Irish beef industry
Even have me convinced that Irish beef is sh..e.......take a bow lads

yewtree

I saw some of the videos from a meeting in ballina. It was very amateur to say the least, fella roaring nonsense into the mic. It becoming pretty clear that have no realistic plan at all

patsy_mccabe

wrangler wrote: »

I see BPM are still persisting in Bad Mouthing the Irish beef industry
Even have me convinced that Irish beef is sh..e.......take a bow lads

RobinBanks

yewtree wrote: »

I saw some of the videos from a meeting in ballina. It was very amateur to say the least, fella roaring nonsense into the mic. It becoming pretty clear that have no realistic plan at all

Did ya see the lad that questioned the plan asking if they had an actual business plan? I thought he was going to be killed for having a different opinion.

yewtree

RobinBanks wrote: »

Did ya see the lad that questioned the plan asking if they had an actual business plan? I thought he was going to be killed for having a different opinion.

they don't want any hard questions anyway. They are been used aswell by politicians and the breed societies to push their own agenda.

tractorporn

yewtree wrote: »

they don't want any hard questions anyway. They are been used aswell by politicians and the breed societies to push their own agenda.

I questioned in the WhatsApp group early on the benefit of adding randomers or people who weren't that bothered to the group and that they should concentrate on actually signing lads up. I was shot down fairly quickly by Corley

memorystick

Grueller wrote: »

You have some horn for the young farmer Wrangler.
I work off farm but run 80 sucklers. I am a young farmer. I get all the top ups etc.
BUT I get up at 5:45 every morning, in the yard for 6:00. Out of it at 7:50. Back in it at 5:30 to 7:30-8:00 every evening. I work 7:00 til 6:00 on Saturdays and 7:00 til dinner time most Sundays.
This is the reality for me and most young farmers around my area. Yes my father helps out by keeping an eye on cows during the day but he does not calve them and I never meet him in the yard as he only potters out about 9:30 and does a bit of pottering about.
If payments were levelled maybe we couls afford to work off farm less and actually give farming a go. No? Much easier to criticise a whole group even though the ladder has been pulled up by the older farmers.

Are you paying the high rate of tax? If you are, then you’re mad to keep suckers. ‘Tis the toughest way to get a few pound together to pay the taxman.

RobinBanks

yewtree wrote: »

they don't want any hard questions anyway. They are been used aswell by politicians and the breed societies to push their own agenda.

Well it was actually other farmers that were shouting at him to shut up not the Beef plan guys themselves.

older by the day

Well young farmers have an advantage, they are YOUNG.they have time to change. If payments were capped at 60. Bring Full time farmers up to a base of 20000 provided they meet certain environmental conditions. The new entrant would qualify for this too.

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

This whinge fest has to stop, QA isn't compulsory, bord bia have done a list of what the supermarkets want, farmers can sign up if they want, is it any more onerous than cross compliance

wrangler

tractorporn wrote: »

I questioned in the WhatsApp group early on the benefit of adding randomers or people who weren't that bothered to the group and that they should concentrate on actually signing lads up. I was shot down fairly quickly by Corley

Putting up politicians that support them is a mistake,Do they not know that all politicians will support you in everything you do.........as long as they're not in power :rolleyes:

Grueller

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Not having a go Grueller - but why put in those hours?

If your current full time employer, asked you to work another 32hrs a week, for possibly not much of an increase - would you agree to it?

I know we all farm cos we like to, but is putting in the hours above really worth it?

I am in the bdgp scheme so kinda tied to numbers for a while yet. I am probably going to tweak the system and reduce numbers when I get out of that scheme. I am in three years I think so don't want the penalties.

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

I'd also imagine that putting in those hours you're not giving your best to your employer.
I wouldn't like to meet grueller on a friday evening

I am my employer. I contract my services through my own company.
No bother on a Friday evening Wrangler. I am generally found asleep on the couch.

Grueller

memorystick wrote: »

Are you paying the high rate of tax? If you are, then you’re mad to keep suckers. ‘Tis the toughest way to get a few pound together to pay the taxman.

I have good off farm income so yes on the high rate of tax.
That kind of explains how I have grown the farm. I kept pumping money into stock as a young trained farmer getting 100% tax relief. That led to more sheds to depreciate. I have now reached the point where I can not afford to grow any more and continue off farm employment. This is leading to me considering a system change.
What this has all done is left me with a good money box of stock with the tax paid on it as I always kept stock values correct on the books. In fact at the moment with beef price they are probably 20% over valued.
Will I have a tax bill now? Yes but it is a fraction of what it should be because every year I write a cheque to a pension that kills the tax bill.

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

I have good off farm income so yes on the high rate of tax.
That kind of explains how I have grown the farm. I kept pumping money into stock as a young trained farmer getting 100% tax relief. That led to more sheds to depreciate. I have now reached the point where I can not afford to grow any more and continue off farm employment. This is leading to me considering a system change.
What this has all done is left me with a good money box of stock with the tax paid on it as I always kept stock values correct on the books. In fact at the moment with beef price they are probably 20% over valued.
Will I have a tax bill now? Yes but it is a fraction of what it should be because every year I write a cheque to a pension that kills the tax bill.

Defers the tax bill you mean, learning a bit about that at the moment......the hard way

grassroot1

wrangler wrote: »

This whinge fest has to stop, QA isn't compulsory, bord bia have done a list of what the supermarkets want, farmers can sign up if they want, is it any more onerous than cross compliance

It is not very easy to sell a cow without QA though so it kinda is compulsory.
If my lambs are not QA do they go into another market?
Why is it that fire exits must be marked in livestock sheds how is that relevant to QA

wrangler

grassroot1 wrote: »

It is not very easy to sell a cow without QA though so it kinda is compulsory.
If my lambs are not QA do they go into another market?
Why is it that fire exits must be marked in livestock sheds who is that relevant to QA

You've hit the nail on the head there, guys say they get nothing extra for QA yet you say the stock won't be taken. So QA is worth more. I wonder who will BPM get to do their QA inspections when they're big meat processor, supermarkets don't accept a once in ten year cross compliance inspection as a guarantee of quallity
I've had a lot of inspections but was never asked for a fire exit.
We were having farm inspections here for supermarkets long before Bord Bia took it on, I'd have no problem with that in that we'd be doing it right anyway.
BPM couldn't pick a worse time to discredit the beef industry with prices on their knees

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

Defers the tax bill you mean, learning a bit about that at the moment......the hard way

OK must get some independent advice on that so.

older by the day

Grueller wrote: »

wrangler wrote: »

Defers the tax bill you mean, learning a bit about that at the moment......the hard way

OK must get some independent advice on that so.

That would be an interesting thread I save into accounts that have hardly any interest, I don't like risk. I'm not mad about paying a pension when its not garunteed and high management fees. It's an interesting topic

older by the day

Grueller wrote: »

wrangler wrote: »

Defers the tax bill you mean, learning a bit about that at the moment......the hard way

OK must get some independent advice on that so.

That would be an interesting thread I save into accounts that have hardly any interest, I don't like risk. I'm not mad about paying a pension when its not garunteed and high management fees. It's an interesting topic

Grueller

older by the day wrote: »

That would be an interesting thread I save into accounts that have hardly any interest, I don't like risk. I'm not mad about paying a pension when its not garunteed and high management fees. It's an interesting topic

I think the thing with pensions is not to panic when they drop as they will. There are high, medium and low risk funds. I am late 30s so am still in high risk funds. As time comes closer for draw down I will start moving towards low risk to cosolidate the funds.
The kicker in this is that 11 years ago the Irish banks were low risk. However the funds that were exposed to them have recovered as there was great value in the markets to be exploited. That is my limited understanding anyhow.

wrangler

older by the day wrote: »

That would be an interesting thread I save into accounts that have hardly any interest, I don't like risk. I'm not mad about paying a pension when its not garunteed and high management fees. It's an interesting topic

You get a percentage of your pension in a lumpsum taxfree but the pension itself is taxed so putting it in a pension to save tax is a bit of a cod,

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

You get a percentage of your pension in a lumpsum taxfree but the pension itself is taxed so putting it in a pension to save tax is a bit of a cod,

But if you and your spouse are over 65 the first 36k is tax free.
If you only have oap at €24000 between the 2 of you it means you can draw €12k tax free per annum from the pension. That is over 3 times what a paye worker gets tax free so it will pay IF legislation stays the same. That is a big gamble for somebody my age.
Lakill will probably be along to correct me now.

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

But if you and your spouse are over 65 the first 36k is tax free.
If you only have oap at €24000 between the 2 of you it means you can draw €12k tax free per annum from the pension. That is over 3 times what a paye worker gets tax free so it will pay IF legislation stays the same. That is a big gamble for somebody my age.
Lakill will probably be along to correct me now.

Surprised I haven't been told that, married to a PS :eek: so it's only polite to let her claim the pension so we're over 36k and it won't be long till she's over 65, so it wasn't relevant

Sheep breeder

Grueller wrote: »

You have some horn for the young farmer Wrangler.
I work off farm but run 80 sucklers. I am a young farmer. I get all the top ups etc.
BUT I get up at 5:45 every morning, in the yard for 6:00. Out of it at 7:50. Back in it at 5:30 to 7:30-8:00 every evening. I work 7:00 til 6:00 on Saturdays and 7:00 til dinner time most Sundays.
This is the reality for me and most young farmers around my area. Yes my father helps out by keeping an eye on cows during the day but he does not calve them and I never meet him in the yard as he only potters out about 9:30 and does a bit of pottering about.
If payments were levelled maybe we couls afford to work off farm less and actually give farming a go. No? Much easier to criticise a whole group even though the ladder has been pulled up by the older farmers.

Fair play to you for driving on at what your doing, being down that road as well and own little amount of land and rented and built up numbers, sheds, new house, family and at one stage worked two jobs as well as farming and now only one job off farm.
Two things that I have learned in my time, first the farming organisations look after there own cronies and will screw everyone to suit themselves, example what the dairy men are at now.

Your health will suffer by working so hard and you slow down quicker, at present have bad hip, bone gone in one hand, knee in trouble and very little time for life.last time in Croke park 2006 and haven’t been to a the new Aviva stadium.

Who2

Anyone think about forestry as a pension pot? say if you bought bad ground at 4k an acre, plant it claim the payments, then clear fell the lot in 30 years, pretty much tax free ex the usc and prsi.

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

Surprised I haven't been told that, married to a PS :eek: so it's only polite to let her claim the pension so we're over 36k and it won't be long till she's over 65, so it wasn't relevant

On current life expectancies my generation should see averave ages of 85+ so it is something we need to educate ourselves on now. No point realising at 60 that the old age pension is reduced/gone and no contingency plan in place.

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

On current life expectancies my generation should see averave ages of 85+ so it is something we need to educate ourselves on now. No point realising at 60 that the old age pension is reduced/gone and no contingency plan in place.

definitely, Irish old age pension can't last....NI is only half our OAP.
OH retired early and if she can prove that she had an input into the farm (which she has) since then she'll get the contributory pension as well.

memorystick

Who2 wrote: »

Anyone think about forestry as a pension pot? say if you bought bad ground at 4k an acre, plant it claim the payments, then clear fell the lot in 30 years, pretty much tax free ex the usc and prsi.

An advisor told me not to bother with pensions but to buy land or property. A neighbour of mine is starting to draw back his pension and he's barely getting a return on his money. He regrets not buying more land or a house.

farawaygrass

Funny the pension talk is brought up, I got forms out in the post just this week to start one. I’m 33 btw. It’s a gamble, but I’m only planning on maybe €25 p/w for now. Won’t break me, and when have more of the farm set up I can up it then-they day to start early even if it’s a small amount. What would the typical amount people would pay in?

Who2

memorystick wrote: »

An advisor told me not to bother with pensions but to buy land or property. A neighbour of mine is starting to draw back his pension and he's barely getting a return on his money. He regrets not buying more land or a house.

Houses arnt what they were from a rental perspective, the taxes and regs ruins that option. The only issue i can see with the land is, will you really cash it in? There might be someone holding your hand telling you what a great job you made of the place and it would be a pity to split it up.

_Brian

Was lucky and got a job with pension at 23, in 13 years with my contribution, voluntary contrib, bonus I have equivalent of 30 years payments.

Letlft the job so cant add to it but fingers crossed it will be something half decent to go along with my contributory when the day comes.

Or it will give me something less if I wanted to retire early, which would be the plan for both myself and herself, neither of us have huge longevity in our family so not going to push our luck too far.

wrangler

Who2 wrote: »

Houses arnt what they were from a rental perspective, the taxes and regs ruins that option. The only issue i can see with the land is, will you really cash it in? There might be someone holding your hand telling you what a great job you made of the place and it would be a pity to split it up.

Make them buy it

Grueller

Bit of back seat modding here, but the pension talk is interesting but irrelevant to the bpm. Any chance of splitting to 2 threads.

older by the day

If anyone was at a Mart lately, anyone would think farmers were only pensioners. I commented that to a friend of mine, he agreed a lot of the Mart goers had lost it above stairs and a lot have lost it below, most have lost the drive in both places.

Cavanjack

older by the day wrote: »

If anyone was at a Mart lately, anyone would think farmers were only pensioners. I commented that to a friend of mine, he agreed a lot of the Mart goers had lost it above stairs and a lot have lost it below, most have lost the drive in both places.

Many mart goers have lost the ability to count as well as there seems to be no relevance in the store and weanling trade to the beef price at present .

wrangler

Cavanjack wrote: »

Many mart goers have lost the ability to count as well as there seems to be no relevance in the store and weanling trade to the beef price at present .

A lot buying at this time of year don't care whether they make money or not as long as they don't lose money, I've a neighbour that does it and does alright.
He gets about €300/hd in subs but would also make money on the stock
but it does distort the trade, nice for those that are targetting supplying that trade

Muckit

Grueller wrote: »

Bit of back seat modding here, but the pension talk is interesting but irrelevant to the bpm. Any chance of splitting to 2 threads.

A planning for retirement/pensions thread would be a great idea

memorystick

Who2 wrote: »

Houses arnt what they were from a rental perspective, the taxes and regs ruins that option. The only issue i can see with the land is, will you really cash it in? There might be someone holding your hand telling you what a great job you made of the place and it would be a pity to split it up.

If you have one that is debt free, then they're a nice little earner. I would think bad of selling it.

Bass Reeves

memorystick wrote: »

If you have one that is debt free, then they're a nice little earner. I would think bad of selling it.

Renting houses is all about yield. Too many that got into it were only thinking of capital appreciation and bought at wrong time. Unless yield is above 8% and ideally above 10-12% you are in a high risk game.

Bass Reeves

Cavanjack wrote: »

Many mart goers have lost the ability to count as well as there seems to be no relevance in the store and weanling trade to the beef price at present .

It is another of the reasons I got out of winter finishing. It was too expensive to but replacements in the spring and this left no margin from winter finishing. Invariably you ended up carrying you summer cattle as well to turn a margin and this drove nitrates above the 170 mark. It is a lot easier to just carry stores to finish in the summer or early autumn.

Who2

memorystick wrote: »

If you have one that is debt free, then they're a nice little earner. I would think bad of selling it.

It’s not that simple anymore, you loose a fair share in personal taxes, property tax and maintenance then with all the rules if you end up with a non payer it’ll take 8 to 10 months to get them out legally.

memorystick

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Renting houses is all about yield. Too many that got into it were only thinking of capital appreciation and bought at wrong time. Unless yield is above 8% and ideally above 10-12% you are in a high risk game.

High risk!!!! Have you ever tried farming????

memorystick

Who2 wrote: »

It’s not that simple anymore, you loose a fair share in personal taxes, property tax and maintenance then with all the rules if you end up with a non payer it’ll take 8 to 10 months to get them out legally.

I don't know but the tenant we have is over ten years there and it seems to be working out.

farawaygrass

A good tenant is worth at least a couple of hundred a month

Who2

farawaygrass wrote: »

A good tenant is worth at least a couple of hundred a month

The problem is they are few and far between, unless the house is rising in value or your properties are bought and paid for in Dublin then in the vast majority of cases rental will end up costing money. As bad as farming is I can currently make it work better than house rental.