Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Hard Knocks

memorystick wrote: »

That's my plan. Currently begging lads to come buy my finished heifers. Never again. Going to buy light bullocks and sell as forward stores. One year keep and no meal. Spending near €180 on meal for heifers is not profitable or sustainable.

Keeping stores is break even at best
You might not give meal but you’ll Have to winter them & watch movements
Lots started finishing heifers as they were not making gains at Autumn sales

memorystick

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Keeping stores is break even at best
You might not give meal but you’ll Have to winter them & watch movements
Lots started finishing heifers as they were not making gains at Autumn sales

It's more flexible and not as bad as what I'm doing at the moment.

Albert Johnson

memorystick wrote: »

It's more flexible and not as bad as what I'm doing at the moment.

The option of either selling as stores or keeping through to finish would add flexibility from year to year depending on the market. My biggest fear with producing solely for the store trade is Tb, getting locked up could mean an expensive and unintended venture into finishing. Also stock type may need to be changed if targeting the store trade, traditional breeds particularly heifers never seem to sell well as stores and need to be kept through to finish to maximize the returns imo. Buying continentals may mean a bigger initial outlay but will usually mean a bigger return as either stores or beef animals.

older by the day

I wonder are things that bad, i was laughing with a friend at the Mart yesterday, we were watching the cattle being unloaded. Nice hiluxs and landcruisers, lovely shiny galvanised cow box's. When there was money in cattle all you would see is old crock.s of tractors and carts made of sticks and baler twine, with the animals heads sticking out ???

Reggie.

older by the day wrote: »

I wonder are things that bad, i was laughing with a friend at the Mart yesterday, we were watching the cattle being unloaded. Nice hiluxs and landcruisers, lovely shiny galvanised cow box's. When there was money in cattle all you would see is old crock.s of tractors and carts made of sticks and baler twine, with the animals heads sticking out ???

That's cos they used the money of the good prices to buy them new machines.

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

That's cos they used the money of the good prices to buy them new machines.

Just because they have new machines doesn't mean they are paid for

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

Just because they have new machines doesn't mean they are paid for

Who ya telling

grassroot1

Willfarman wrote:

That place was never anymore that a wealthy mans folly. The man hadn’t much hobbies. Not to far from my part of the world and the place was always a great asset in terms of employment and spin offs for the area but no way has it ever held its own as a enterprise.

Ya better go for a tour tommorow so new shed gone up on the last year.Straw bedded modeled on one in Germany one of Bert's sons is going to run it

Grueller

whelan2 wrote: »

Just because they have new machines doesn't mean they are paid for

As a friend of mine said about a new jeep, " If I signed twice I could have got two".

wrangler

grassroot1 wrote: »

Ya better go for a tour tommorow so new shed gone up on the last year.Straw bedded modeled on one in Germany one of Bert's sons is going to run it

,

Is that the guy that fed thousand of lambs when he was still in school, they all went to ICM for some reason

Albert Johnson

older by the day wrote: »

I wonder are things that bad, i was laughing with a friend at the Mart yesterday, we were watching the cattle being unloaded. Nice hiluxs and landcruisers, lovely shiny galvanised cow box's. When there was money in cattle all you would see is old crock.s of tractors and carts made of sticks and baler twine, with the animals heads sticking out ???

The RSA have put an end to most of those set ups although there's an odd dinosaur here and there. The advent of subsidies and off farm employment have also contributed to the lumps of shiny metal parked in haggard's nationwide. As roads have gotten busier and cattle wilder I don't think too many will lament the tractor trailers and other relics being retired to a nettle trellis.

A lad locally used to draw cattle with a lorry fitted with a converted fibre glass body previously used for furniture removals. By converted I mean he welded the two swinging doors together to make a ramp and cut some holes in the body for ventilation. The structure of the body was largely unchanged and it wasn't uncommon for a beast to enlarge one of the ventilation holes and attempt an escape. When a head would appear in the mirror it was time to plant the boot and the hope the wind caused them to retreat. The same lad was a product of his time but wouldn't last at the haulage game today. He had the body off fitting a gear box one night and got finished just in time for the following days mart. There was no time to bolt the body back on so he left it sitting on the lorry and started collecting stock. About 2 mile out the road from the mart on a hairpin bend the lorry and body parted company, it demolished the ditch and came to rest in the adjoining field. By some miracle the stock were unharmed but it signaled the end of his stint at the haulage.

mayota

Albert Johnson wrote: »

The RSA have put an end to most of those set ups although there's an odd dinosaur here and there. The advent of subsidies and off farm employment have also contributed to the lumps of shiny metal parked in haggard's nationwide. As roads have gotten busier and cattle wilder I don't think too many will lament the tractor trailers and other relics being retired to a nettle trellis.

A lad locally used to draw cattle with a lorry fitted with a converted fibre glass body previously used for furniture removals. By converted I mean he welded the two swinging doors together to make a ramp and cut some holes in the body for ventilation. The structure of the body was largely unchanged and it wasn't uncommon for a beast to enlarge one of the ventilation holes and attempt an escape. When a head would appear in the mirror it was time to plant the boot and the hope the wind caused them to retreat. The same lad was a product of his time but wouldn't last at the haulage game today. He had the body off fitting a gear box one night and got finished just in time for the following days mart. There was no time to bolt the body back on so he left it sitting on the lorry and started collecting stock. About 2 mile out the road from the mart on a hairpin bend the lorry and body parted company, it demolished the ditch and came to rest in the adjoining field. By some miracle the stock were unharmed but it signaled the end of his stint at the haulage.

You should write a book Albert. You’ve a great way with words.

Willfarman

I really enjoyed that too Albert.

Willfarman

grassroot1 wrote: »

Ya better go for a tour tommorow so new shed gone up on the last year.Straw bedded modeled on one in Germany one of Bert's sons is going to run it

He’s been running the show for a few years now. I’m reluctant to post anymore than that say it’s one of the few ways a beef baron billionaire has put a few bob back into the economy! https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/pics-french-built-self-propelled-feeder-lands-in-the-south-east-of-ireland/

wrangler

Willfarman wrote: »

He’s been running the show for a few years now. I’m reluctant to post anymore than that say it’s one of the few ways a beef baron billionaire has put a few bob back into the economy! https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/pics-french-built-self-propelled-feeder-lands-in-the-south-east-of-ireland/

Store cattle producers won't be sorry to see his agents around the ring. There'll be no one refusing to sell them cattle I'd say
I've always been happy with ICM and that hasn't changed since LG took it over.
Why deal with someone that you accuse of not treating you right, I would always vote with my feet, walk away

charolais0153

wrangler wrote: »

Store cattle producers won't be sorry to see his agents around the ring. There'll be no one refusing to sell them cattle I'd say
I've always been happy with ICM and that hasn't changed since LG took it over.
Why deal with someone that you accuse of not treating you right, I would always vote with my feet, walk away

Buyer for goodman local to here. Good trade when he is around!
A few years ago it was only aax and hex angus and heifers. Recently it is more continentals than anything.

Sheep breeder

grassroot1 wrote: »

Ya better go for a tour tommorow so new shed gone up on the last year.Straw bedded modeled on one in Germany one of Bert's sons is going to run it

Yes some sight and only half built and according to reports the son is twice as clever as the father was in his day,

Bass Reeves

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Don’t know where your getting feed lots operate at a loss and the feedlot in Louth or clonee don’t run at a loss. The new being built in Wexford certainly won’t run at a loss if Bert has anything to say about it.

Feedlot and contracted cattle operate at a loss for the processors. These cattle are contracted at 20c/kg+ more that will be paid to farmers that produce at these shortage times. And as well factory's getting these cattle pick up the transport costs to further hide the true costs of these cattle, You only have to look at the Factory return prices when supplies are tight to see the premium being paid to these contracted and factory owned feedlots. When you add in because of there scale they are buying straights and other feeds at 10-20/ ton less than other midsized and large finishers it is easy to see why these lads will not produce U30 month cattle for May and June

MIKEKC

whelan2 wrote: »

Just because they have new machines doesn't mean they are paid for

True, but then they cost more with added interest

whelan2

MIKEKC wrote: »

True, but then they cost more with added interest

Think of yer one Pamela flood and her husband not paying a penny on their mortgage for 9 years or something. They had no worry of added interest

Base price

I came across this earlier today and I reckon it is only as a result of the pressure from the Beef Plan movement, which imo has been very quite/mute in the last few weeks??

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/industry-reps-to-attend-open-beef-farmer-crisis-meeting/

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

I came across this earlier today and I reckon it is only as a result of the pressure from the Beef Plan movement, which imo has been very quite/mute in the last few weeks??

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/industry-reps-to-attend-open-beef-farmer-crisis-meeting/

I doubt it, IFA often run these but it's a pointless effort, I hope MII do turn up, they often said they would before and didn't turn up, We'd end up talking among ourselves.
I might go to this, BPM has some farmers fairly fuelled up now,should be good fun .....maybe they're just keyboard warriors though.
They're like the vegans now, they should leave IFA alone, either support it or f... off ........they're probably not paying membership any way. what they're at is only doing harm

patsy_mccabe

IFA
FAI
FIA
IAF
AIF
AFI

6 different ways to juggle the letters IFA. Google them, not one would inspire you.

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

IFA
FAI
FIA
IAF
AIF
AFI

6 different ways to juggle the letters IFA. Google them, not one would inspire you.

They're doing grand,, sheep welfare scheme, tax free income, road deal, subsidy protection, what more could I want

SuperTortoise

wrangler wrote: »

They're doing grand,, sheep welfare scheme, tax free income, road deal, subsidy protection, what more could I want

I was at a talk a few weeks ago given by Joe Healy, long story short, he was hoping that he would be able to lobby to protect the subsidy, when you go into negoatiations and the best possible outcome you are hoping for is standing still, you know things are fooked.

alps

SuperTortoise wrote: »

I was at a talk a few weeks ago given by Joe Healy, long story short, he was hoping that he would be able to lobby to protect the subsidy, when you go into negoatiations and the best possible outcome you are hoping for is standing still, you know things are fooked.

And what do you think would happen if someone didn't go in and lobby FOR YOU??

wrangler

SuperTortoise wrote: »

I was at a talk a few weeks ago given by Joe Healy, long story short, he was hoping that he would be able to lobby to protect the subsidy, when you go into negoatiations and the best possible outcome you are hoping for is standing still, you know things are fooked.

The national subsidy was cut last time as well but nothing like what was proposed, the good times are coming to an end alright as regards subsidies.
However there was the same talk going around before that last CAP reform and it didn't happen so I'd be quietly hopeful even still

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

IFA
FAI
FIA
IAF
AIF
AFI

6 different ways to juggle the letters IFA. Google them, not one would inspire you.

Anyone at the meeting last night, some of the farmers wouldn't inspire you last night either, throwing insults won't solve anything any way.
Cormac Healy was very patient

Robeman

Just came accross this forum and have enjoyed reading it. I actually have read the "Plan" of the BPM from cover to cover and have also attended a BPM meeting.

After I read the plan I thought of Larry at his weekly meeting with his senior managere asking the question "has anyone read the Plan of the BPM" One manager speaks up "Yes I have we have absolutely nothing to worry about. If you want a good laugh Larry if you ever get depressed read it. It will also help you understand why you are a billionaire".

At a subsequent meeting Larry asks "have we got anybody to attend one of these meetings to learn more about BPM" Bright spark answers again. "Even less to worry about. They talk about everything except their plan. The head guys waffle on about how tough things are and how everybody (IFA, Dairy farmers, Gov, FF,FG EU, Supermarkets, Processors.........) are mean to Beef Producers. They then waffle on about some mickey mouse technical issues. When issue thrown open to the flooor there are loads of passionate speeches about more mickey mouse issues, how everyone is mean to them etc etc. Then you usually get some County Council Candidates speaking to canvass some votes. There is lots of shouting and roaring especially at farmers who attemp to make an intelligent contribution particularly if they say that the plan is bull****." The good thing for us is that the lunatics are definitely in charge of the asylum."

Joking aside the Plan is the greatest load of bull**** I have ever come accross and is an insult to the word "Plan"

It is easy to understand why. It was put together by a Group of Beef Farmers in Meath who may be the best beef farmers in the country but who obviously know absolutely nothing about Consumers, The Retail trade \ Multiples and the Beef processing Industry and how they all work and behave. They also seem to know little about international makets, how manufacturing industry works and the cost of some of the ideas they blithly put forward and how the world works. I could write a short book about everything that is wrong about their plan.

The most amazing thing about the BPM is that virtually no one including the Media seems to have actually read the Plan. If they had they would be more critical of it.

Whenever one puts together a business Plan the first thing to be considered in Macro Economic Environment i.e what is happening in the big bad world out there that we need to keep in mind as we develop our plan.

As regards the Beef Industry the main item I would consider are.

-Climate Change Industry
-Decreasing consumption of meat particularly red mean in mature 1st world economies \ rise of vegetarianism & Veganism
-Decreasing influence of farming sector as key element of 1st world economies and also decreasing political influence due to decreasing numbers working in industry
-Movement away from home cooking \ self prepared meals to institutional eating (canteens at school \ work) and restaurants \ take out eating.
-Continually increasing regulation
-Less physical work \ \play more sedentary work \ play resulting in less calories needed.
-World population growth (stagnant in 1st world where can afford expensive meat \ growing in 2nd\3rd where meat very often a luxury.

These are virtually all negative there are probably more negatives I have not thought of and maybe some positives but even after racking my brains I cannot come up with one. can anyone come up with some positives or more negatives.

I will write some more on this issue if you are interested in learning how a proper plan is put together and what needs to be considered in the whole chain from field to fork when developing a plan for a particular segment namely Beef Producing sector.

aphextwit

"Is there anything to be said for another mass?"

Albert Johnson

Robeman wrote: »

Just came accross this forum and have enjoyed reading it. I actually have read the "Plan" of the BPM from cover to cover and have also attended a BPM meeting.

After I read the plan I thought of Larry at his weekly meeting with his senior managere asking the question "has anyone read the Plan of the BPM" One manager speaks up "Yes I have we have absolutely nothing to worry about. If you want a good laugh Larry if you ever get depressed read it. It will also help you understand why you are a billionaire".

At a subsequent meeting Larry asks "have we got anybody to attend one of these meetings to learn more about BPM" Bright spark answers again. "Even less to worry about. They talk about everything except their plan. The head guys waffle on about how tough things are and how everybody (IFA, Dairy farmers, Gov, FF,FG EU, Supermarkets, Processors.........) are mean to Beef Producers. They then waffle on about some mickey mouse technical issues. When issue thrown open to the flooor there are loads of passionate speeches about more mickey mouse issues, how everyone is mean to them etc etc. Then you usually get some County Council Candidates speaking to canvass some votes. There is lots of shouting and roaring especially at farmers who attemp to make an intelligent contribution particularly if they say that the plan is bull****." The good thing for us is that the lunatics are definitely in charge of the asylum."

Joking aside the Plan is the greatest load of bull**** I have ever come accross and is an insult to the word "Plan"

It is easy to understand why. It was put together by a Group of Beef Farmers in Meath who may be the best beef farmers in the country but who obviously know absolutely nothing about Consumers, The Retail trade \ Multiples and the Beef processing Industry and how they all work and behave. They also seem to know little about international makets, how manufacturing industry works and the cost of some of the ideas they blithly put forward and how the world works. I could write a short book about everything that is wrong about their plan.

The most amazing thing about the BPM is that virtually no one including the Media seems to have actually read the Plan. If they had they would be more critical of it.

Whenever one puts together a business Plan the first thing to be considered in Macro Economic Environment i.e what is happening in the big bad world out there that we need to keep in mind as we develop our plan.

As regards the Beef Industry the main item I would consider are.

-Climate Change Industry
-Decreasing consumption of meat particularly red mean in mature 1st world economies \ rise of vegetarianism & Veganism
-Decreasing influence of farming sector as key element of 1st world economies and also decreasing political influence due to decreasing numbers working in industry
-Movement away from home cooking \ self prepared meals to institutional eating (canteens at school \ work) and restaurants \ take out eating.
-Continually increasing regulation
-Less physical work \ \play more sedentary work \ play resulting in less calories needed.
-World population growth (stagnant in 1st world where can afford expensive meat \ growing in 2nd\3rd where meat very often a luxury.

These are virtually all negative there are probably more negatives I have not thought of and maybe some positives but even after racking my brains I cannot come up with one. can anyone come up with some positives or more negatives.

I will write some more on this issue if you are interested in learning how a proper plan is put together and what needs to be considered in the whole chain from field to fork when developing a plan for a particular segment namely Beef Producing sector.

As I've said before it's a sucker farmers support group and nothing else imo. Some of what's suggested at these so called "meetings" would be comical if an industry wasn't at stake. I considered highlighting some of my own views at our local meeting but I'd probably have been lynched or at least branded as working for the enemy. The whole organization is like Father Ted meets Fawlty towers as far as I can see, one ridiculous debacle after another.

wrangler

Robeman wrote: »

Just came accross this forum and have enjoyed reading it. I actually have read the "Plan" of the BPM from cover to cover and have also attended a BPM meeting.

After I read the plan I thought of Larry at his weekly meeting with his senior managere asking the question "has anyone read the Plan of the BPM" One manager speaks up "Yes I have we have absolutely nothing to worry about. If you want a good laugh Larry if you ever get depressed read it. It will also help you understand why you are a billionaire".

At a subsequent meeting Larry asks "have we got anybody to attend one of these meetings to learn more about BPM" Bright spark answers again. "Even less to worry about. They talk about everything except their plan. The head guys waffle on about how tough things are and how everybody (IFA, Dairy farmers, Gov, FF,FG EU, Supermarkets, Processors.........) are mean to Beef Producers. They then waffle on about some mickey mouse technical issues. When issue thrown open to the flooor there are loads of passionate speeches about more mickey mouse issues, how everyone is mean to them etc etc. Then you usually get some County Council Candidates speaking to canvass some votes. There is lots of shouting and roaring especially at farmers who attemp to make an intelligent contribution particularly if they say that the plan is bull****." The good thing for us is that the lunatics are definitely in charge of the asylum."

Joking aside the Plan is the greatest load of bull**** I have ever come accross and is an insult to the word "Plan"

It is easy to understand why. It was put together by a Group of Beef Farmers in Meath who may be the best beef farmers in the country but who obviously know absolutely nothing about Consumers, The Retail trade \ Multiples and the Beef processing Industry and how they all work and behave. They also seem to know little about international makets, how manufacturing industry works and the cost of some of the ideas they blithly put forward and how the world works. I could write a short book about everything that is wrong about their plan.

The most amazing thing about the BPM is that virtually no one including the Media seems to have actually read the Plan. If they had they would be more critical of it.

Whenever one puts together a business Plan the first thing to be considered in Macro Economic Environment i.e what is happening in the big bad world out there that we need to keep in mind as we develop our plan.

As regards the Beef Industry the main item I would consider are.

-Climate Change Industry
-Decreasing consumption of meat particularly red mean in mature 1st world economies \ rise of vegetarianism & Veganism
-Decreasing influence of farming sector as key element of 1st world economies and also decreasing political influence due to decreasing numbers working in industry
-Movement away from home cooking \ self prepared meals to institutional eating (canteens at school \ work) and restaurants \ take out eating.
-Continually increasing regulation
-Less physical work \ \play more sedentary work \ play resulting in less calories needed.
-World population growth (stagnant in 1st world where can afford expensive meat \ growing in 2nd\3rd where meat very often a luxury.

These are virtually all negative there are probably more negatives I have not thought of and maybe some positives but even after racking my brains I cannot come up with one. can anyone come up with some positives or more negatives.

I will write some more on this issue if you are interested in learning how a proper plan is put together and what needs to be considered in the whole chain from field to fork when developing a plan for a particular segment namely Beef Producing sector.

Subidising the farmer is doing a lot of harm, a business minded person would leave the land nearly idle and collect their subsidy rather than feed cattle, but farmers seem to plod on and make a bad situation worse by over producing.
If farmers were getting no sub they'd be a lot more careful with their money I think
The Bord bia guy said as much as you're after saying about consumers and consumer behaviour and the importance of studying the market .
There'll have to be a change, don't think it'll happen in my lifetime.
Interesting move by BPM today, they start an organisation for those not happy with bord bia, IFA etc, now they're having a poll about satisfaction with Bord Bia, IFA, etc etc ....guess what the result will be.
In effect they have formed an organisation to lobby IFA......you couldn't make it up

visatorro

Just seen a couple of videos of prominent beef farmers who realised that beef is pointless full time enterprise. Part time lads driving price of cattle up doesn't help either. Glanbia deal is not great but if lads got fr bull calves free to take away at 2 weeks old and finished at 1000 is not too bad In my uneducated view. Don't bite me head off please just throwing it out. Don't finish anything here but know plenty of lads that are. One dairy farmer I know finishes his Hereford cattle, reckons he only makes money because he's not buying the calves iykwim.

Robeman

Chapter Two of Plan THE CONSUMER

The key to any fmcg business is understanding the consumer of your product, their behaviors, buying habits, price sensitivity, what influences their buying habits, loyalty, where they buy, when they buy etc etc etc.

Understanding consumers more important the nearer you get to them so particularly studied in the case of food products by Retail Trade \ Brand owners \ Food processors. Also need to be understood by Restaurant \ Catering industry for consumers that use them for food purchases. The key success factor is understanding your consumer and giving them what they want. (Selling consumers what you have is not the same as giving them what they want. Selling what you have is a tougher proosition if this is not what consumer wants)

I often wonder how often beef farmers visit supermarkets to see their product displayed on the shelves along with all the other closely competing products (lamb, pig, hen , turkey , duck, goose, all different types of fish) and more indirectly competing products like pasta bread vegetables etc etc etc. Do they watch house wives (husbands) as they go around making their food choices for the day \ week. Do they ever talk to the housewife and ask her about her purchasing decisions. Why she did not purchase beef if none in her trolly. They would learn a lot in this way.

It would be a sobering lesson for many farmers if a few average house wife's came and spoke to a BPM meeting. They would probably pop a few of the holy grails of the beef producing industry.

Do farmers ever look at and understand the product mix, price points, packaging of the beef on offer, do they look at the "meat" competition and see the various costs per kilo fo the house wife.

The housewife wants the best and healthiest nutrition for her family, she wants food they like that she can easily and she has a budget. Yes she can buy 4 steaks for family that may cost €20 euro, maybe lesser cuts \ smaller for €10 or maybe 2 chickens for €6 which will have some leftovers after dinner which can be used for families packed lunches day after or grazing snacks for fast growing kids.

She probably likes the idea that beef is grass fed, may equally like that corn feed and may not care less. She probably is patriotic and would prefer to buy Irish but if not there, overpriced or not nicely packaged she will easily buy foreign products. She has travelled and knows that every country in Europe has nice food and maybe even higher standards than Ireland.

Beef maybe a pain in the arse for her to cook. Husband \ kids never complain about overcooked chicken, turkey, bacon. With steaks \ roasts it is a nightmare. Hubby wants it rare, son medium rare, herself well done while daughter is going through a curry phase and want everything curried.

She is not worried about the poor beef farmer and how much money is is making (aw sure he is getting loads of subsidies anyway), she has no idea what grade the meat is (she has two grades nice and rubbish) , quality assured sounds good but she expects every food product is quality assured by everyone in the food chain. She would probably understand the supermarkets and processor quality procedures and processes but would have difficulty in understanding Board Bia' s QA scheme for farmers and how that ensures anything in the way of quality. When she has to return product to supermarket for being substandard she blames them and also blames processor who name is on product if different. She get apology from supermarket and also one from processor who foods cost of return and cost of freebe to housewife to give substance to apology. The processor never goes back to farmer even if complaint is somewhat related to rearing like meat being tough or too much fat

To her meat is meat, branding is probably not important. If she considers the supermarket is good she will accept that their meat is good. She probably shops in 2 or 3 different supermarkets and is always comparing one to the other. She may have perceptions that one quality is better than other but industry professionals will probably say that all the same. Do lidl, aldi even though cheapest accept poorer quality meat I think not.

I have probably written enough about the consumer and her choices. Key lesson for beef farmers is that consumer does not care about your problems up to you to sort your own problems. Second they are lots of products housewife can buy instead of beef.

Albert Johnson

Robeman wrote: »

Chapter Two of Plan THE CONSUMER

The key to any fmcg business is understanding the consumer of your product, their behaviors, buying habits, price sensitivity, what influences their buying habits, loyalty, where they buy, when they buy etc etc etc.

Understanding consumers more important the nearer you get to them so particularly studied in the case of food products by Retail Trade \ Brand owners \ Food processors. Also need to be understood by Restaurant \ Catering industry for consumers that use them for food purchases. The key success factor is understanding your consumer and giving them what they want. (Selling consumers what you have is not the same as giving them what they want. Selling what you have is a tougher proosition if this is not what consumer wants)

I often wonder how often beef farmers visit supermarkets to see their product displayed on the shelves along with all the other closely competing products (lamb, pig, hen , turkey , duck, goose, all different types of fish) and more indirectly competing products like pasta bread vegetables etc etc etc. Do they watch house wives (husbands) as they go around making their food choices for the day \ week. Do they ever talk to the housewife and ask her about her purchasing decisions. Why she did not purchase beef if none in her trolly. They would learn a lot in this way.

It would be a sobering lesson for many farmers if a few average house wife's came and spoke to a BPM meeting. They would probably pop a few of the holy grails of the beef producing industry.

Do farmers ever look at and understand the product mix, price points, packaging of the beef on offer, do they look at the "meat" competition and see the various costs per kilo fo the house wife.

The housewife wants the best and healthiest nutrition for her family, she wants food they like that she can easily and she has a budget. Yes she can buy 4 steaks for family that may cost €20 euro, maybe lesser cuts \ smaller for €10 or maybe 2 chickens for €6 which will have some leftovers after dinner which can be used for families packed lunches day after or grazing snacks for fast growing kids.

She probably likes the idea that beef is grass fed, may equally like that corn feed and may not care less. She probably is patriotic and would prefer to buy Irish but if not there, overpriced or not nicely packaged she will easily buy foreign products. She has travelled and knows that every country in Europe has nice food and maybe even higher standards than Ireland.

Beef maybe a pain in the arse for her to cook. Husband \ kids never complain about overcooked chicken, turkey, bacon. With steaks \ roasts it is a nightmare. Hubby wants it rare, son medium rare, herself well done while daughter is going through a curry phase and want everything curried.

She is not worried about the poor beef farmer and how much money is is making (aw sure he is getting loads of subsidies anyway), she has no idea what grade the meat is (she has two grades nice and rubbish) , quality assured sounds good but she expects every food product is quality assured by everyone in the food chain. She would probably understand the supermarkets and processor quality procedures and processes but would have difficulty in understanding Board Bia' s QA scheme for farmers and how that ensures anything in the way of quality. When she has to return product to supermarket for being substandard she blames them and also blames processor who name is on product if different. She get apology from supermarket and also one from processor who foods cost of return and cost of freebe to housewife to give substance to apology. The processor never goes back to farmer even if complaint is somewhat related to rearing like meat being tough or too much fat

To her meat is meat, branding is probably not important. If she considers the supermarket is good she will accept that their meat is good. She probably shops in 2 or 3 different supermarkets and is always comparing one to the other. She may have perceptions that one quality is better than other but industry professionals will probably say that all the same. Do lidl, aldi even though cheapest accept poorer quality meat I think not.

I have probably written enough about the consumer and her choices. Key lesson for beef farmers is that consumer does not care about your problems up to you to sort your own problems. Second they are lots of products housewife can buy instead of beef.

That's a substantial offering in both quantity and content, it's hard to disagree that from the urban consumers viewpoint​ we're producing just another commodity. If anyone suggested a similar opinion at the meeting I attended they'd have been shouted down by the second sentence. The mike would probably have been withdrawn to give to some header who's only offering went something along the lines of "them rotten bastards (insert organization) done me out of X amount, where's our representation there all in bed together and why can't we mimick the 1980's and reinstate intervention and all that went with it". TBH I wouldn't trust half of either the organisers or the attendees to carry my suit cases never mind represent our industry, there only interested in playing the blame game and are frankly an embarrassment imo.

White Clover

Robeman wrote: »

Chapter Two of Plan THE CONSUMER

The key to any fmcg business is understanding the consumer of your product, their behaviors, buying habits, price sensitivity, what influences their buying habits, loyalty, where they buy, when they buy etc etc etc.

Understanding consumers more important the nearer you get to them so particularly studied in the case of food products by Retail Trade \ Brand owners \ Food processors. Also need to be understood by Restaurant \ Catering industry for consumers that use them for food purchases. The key success factor is understanding your consumer and giving them what they want. (Selling consumers what you have is not the same as giving them what they want. Selling what you have is a tougher proosition if this is not what consumer wants)

I often wonder how often beef farmers visit supermarkets to see their product displayed on the shelves along with all the other closely competing products (lamb, pig, hen , turkey , duck, goose, all different types of fish) and more indirectly competing products like pasta bread vegetables etc etc etc. Do they watch house wives (husbands) as they go around making their food choices for the day \ week. Do they ever talk to the housewife and ask her about her purchasing decisions. Why she did not purchase beef if none in her trolly. They would learn a lot in this way.

It would be a sobering lesson for many farmers if a few average house wife's came and spoke to a BPM meeting. They would probably pop a few of the holy grails of the beef producing industry.

Do farmers ever look at and understand the product mix, price points, packaging of the beef on offer, do they look at the "meat" competition and see the various costs per kilo fo the house wife.

The housewife wants the best and healthiest nutrition for her family, she wants food they like that she can easily and she has a budget. Yes she can buy 4 steaks for family that may cost €20 euro, maybe lesser cuts \ smaller for €10 or maybe 2 chickens for €6 which will have some leftovers after dinner which can be used for families packed lunches day after or grazing snacks for fast growing kids.

She probably likes the idea that beef is grass fed, may equally like that corn feed and may not care less. She probably is patriotic and would prefer to buy Irish but if not there, overpriced or not nicely packaged she will easily buy foreign products. She has travelled and knows that every country in Europe has nice food and maybe even higher standards than Ireland.

Beef maybe a pain in the arse for her to cook. Husband \ kids never complain about overcooked chicken, turkey, bacon. With steaks \ roasts it is a nightmare. Hubby wants it rare, son medium rare, herself well done while daughter is going through a curry phase and want everything curried.

She is not worried about the poor beef farmer and how much money is is making (aw sure he is getting loads of subsidies anyway), she has no idea what grade the meat is (she has two grades nice and rubbish) , quality assured sounds good but she expects every food product is quality assured by everyone in the food chain. She would probably understand the supermarkets and processor quality procedures and processes but would have difficulty in understanding Board Bia' s QA scheme for farmers and how that ensures anything in the way of quality. When she has to return product to supermarket for being substandard she blames them and also blames processor who name is on product if different. She get apology from supermarket and also one from processor who foods cost of return and cost of freebe to housewife to give substance to apology. The processor never goes back to farmer even if complaint is somewhat related to rearing like meat being tough or too much fat

To her meat is meat, branding is probably not important. If she considers the supermarket is good she will accept that their meat is good. She probably shops in 2 or 3 different supermarkets and is always comparing one to the other. She may have perceptions that one quality is better than other but industry professionals will probably say that all the same. Do lidl, aldi even though cheapest accept poorer quality meat I think not.

I have probably written enough about the consumer and her choices. Key lesson for beef farmers is that consumer does not care about your problems up to you to sort your own problems. Second they are lots of products housewife can buy instead of beef.

Excellent, Can you forward this to bord bia? These are the people that we as farmers pay to market our produce and who clearly are not making a good job of it.

wrangler

Robeman wrote: »

Chapter Two of Plan THE CONSUMER

The key to any fmcg business is understanding the consumer of your product, their behaviors, buying habits, price sensitivity, what influences their buying habits, loyalty, where they buy, when they buy etc etc etc.

Understanding consumers more important the nearer you get to them so particularly studied in the case of food products by Retail Trade \ Brand owners \ Food processors. Also need to be understood by Restaurant \ Catering industry for consumers that use them for food purchases. The key success factor is understanding your consumer and giving them what they want. (Selling consumers what you have is not the same as giving them what they want. Selling what you have is a tougher proosition if this is not what consumer wants)

I often wonder how often beef farmers visit supermarkets to see their product displayed on the shelves along with all the other closely competing products (lamb, pig, hen , turkey , duck, goose, all different types of fish) and more indirectly competing products like pasta bread vegetables etc etc etc. Do they watch house wives (husbands) as they go around making their food choices for the day \ week. Do they ever talk to the housewife and ask her about her purchasing decisions. Why she did not purchase beef if none in her trolly. They would learn a lot in this way.

It would be a sobering lesson for many farmers if a few average house wife's came and spoke to a BPM meeting. They would probably pop a few of the holy grails of the beef producing industry.

Do farmers ever look at and understand the product mix, price points, packaging of the beef on offer, do they look at the "meat" competition and see the various costs per kilo fo the house wife.

The housewife wants the best and healthiest nutrition for her family, she wants food they like that she can easily and she has a budget. Yes she can buy 4 steaks for family that may cost €20 euro, maybe lesser cuts \ smaller for €10 or maybe 2 chickens for €6 which will have some leftovers after dinner which can be used for families packed lunches day after or grazing snacks for fast growing kids.

She probably likes the idea that beef is grass fed, may equally like that corn feed and may not care less. She probably is patriotic and would prefer to buy Irish but if not there, overpriced or not nicely packaged she will easily buy foreign products. She has travelled and knows that every country in Europe has nice food and maybe even higher standards than Ireland.

Beef maybe a pain in the arse for her to cook. Husband \ kids never complain about overcooked chicken, turkey, bacon. With steaks \ roasts it is a nightmare. Hubby wants it rare, son medium rare, herself well done while daughter is going through a curry phase and want everything curried.

She is not worried about the poor beef farmer and how much money is is making (aw sure he is getting loads of subsidies anyway), she has no idea what grade the meat is (she has two grades nice and rubbish) , quality assured sounds good but she expects every food product is quality assured by everyone in the food chain. She would probably understand the supermarkets and processor quality procedures and processes but would have difficulty in understanding Board Bia' s QA scheme for farmers and how that ensures anything in the way of quality. When she has to return product to supermarket for being substandard she blames them and also blames processor who name is on product if different. She get apology from supermarket and also one from processor who foods cost of return and cost of freebe to housewife to give substance to apology. The processor never goes back to farmer even if complaint is somewhat related to rearing like meat being tough or too much fat

To her meat is meat, branding is probably not important. If she considers the supermarket is good she will accept that their meat is good. She probably shops in 2 or 3 different supermarkets and is always comparing one to the other. She may have perceptions that one quality is better than other but industry professionals will probably say that all the same. Do lidl, aldi even though cheapest accept poorer quality meat I think not.

I have probably written enough about the consumer and her choices. Key lesson for beef farmers is that consumer does not care about your problems up to you to sort your own problems. Second they are lots of products housewife can buy instead of beef.

I watched a meat counter in Italy once and was surprised at the housewives passing the cheaper Irish product to buy the Italian stuff, I realised it doesn't matter what Italian stuff is worth on the top shelf, we are actually competing to fill the bottom shelves and our competitors will usually be cheaper.
We were made aware at the meeting last night that italian bull price is 50 - 70c/kg more than here at the moment,

Robeman

wrangler wrote: »

I watched a meat counter in Italy once and was surprised at the housewives passing the cheaper Irish product to buy the Italian stuff, I realised it doesn't matter what Italian stuff is worth on the top shelf, we are actually competing to fill the bottom shelves and our competitors will usually be cheaper.
We were made aware at the meeting last night that italian bull price is 50 - 70c/kg more than here at the moment,

Food quality in Italy is a lot higher than in Ireland. They are not massive meat eaters. Beef tends to be steaks for main courses or mince for pasta sauces,also do mince meat sausages. In addition they do a lot of dry cured beef which is beef equivalent of parma ham bresaola i think it is caledl. beef also used in salamis as well. Veal also big there and it is great quality.
I have eated a lot of raw beef in Italy they have a dish there called "raw meat of Alba" very thin slices of raw beef topped with a bit of olive oil and parmeasan cheese fabulous. It takes a lot of confidence in hygiene and quality standards to serve and eat a dish like this. All Italian believe all foreign food and wine is second rate.

Base price

Robeman wrote: »

Food quality in Italy is a lot higher than in Ireland. They are not massive meat eaters. Beef tends to be steaks for main courses or mince for pasta sauces,also do mince meat sausages. In addition they do a lot of dry cured beef which is beef equivalent of parma ham bresaola i think it is caledl. beef also used in salamis as well. Veal also big there and it is great quality.
I have eated a lot of raw beef in Italy they have a dish there called "raw meat of Alba" very thin slices of raw beef topped with a bit of olive oil and parmeasan cheese fabulous. It takes a lot of confidence in hygiene and quality standards to serve and eat a dish like this. All Italian believe all foreign food and wine is second rate.

"Food quality in Italy is a lot higher than in Ireland"
Woah, that is some statement - I'm sure that you can back it up with the relevant scientific publications.

wrangler

Robeman wrote: »

Food quality in Italy is a lot higher than in Ireland. They are not massive meat eaters. Beef tends to be steaks for main courses or mince for pasta sauces,also do mince meat sausages. In addition they do a lot of dry cured beef which is beef equivalent of parma ham bresaola i think it is caledl. beef also used in salamis as well. Veal also big there and it is great quality.
I have eated a lot of raw beef in Italy they have a dish there called "raw meat of Alba" very thin slices of raw beef topped with a bit of olive oil and parmeasan cheese fabulous. It takes a lot of confidence in hygiene and quality standards to serve and eat a dish like this. All Italian believe all foreign food and wine is second rate.

Like wise the french, you only see french made cars in france, whereas the Irish believe if it's irish it's rubbish

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

[/B]

Like wise the french, you only see french made cars in france, whereas the Irish believe if it's irish it's rubbish

Wrangler you come out with some sweeping irritating statements from time to time but that one is pure bull****.

Siamsa Sessions

Coincidentally one of the Farmer Writes columns in the Journal this week will be about changing consumer trends and the need to examine our enterprises to see if they’re agile enough to meet this new world.

I’m reading about marketing at the moment and the first thing that struck me is the difference between selling and marketing. Selling = finding a customer for whatever it is you have but marketing = finding out what the customer wants and creating it for them

Robeman

Base price wrote: »

"Food quality in Italy is a lot higher than in Ireland"
Woah, that is some statement - I'm sure that you can back it up with the relevant scientific publications.

Food quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have experience of eating both over long periods and in my view Italian food is of higher quality. Bad food is just not accepted in Italy.

In addition to that I suggest that you go into any any European supermarket. Compare the shelf spacing devoted to Italian produce and Irish produce. assuming you can find comparabile products the Italian will be priced higher.
Spacing and pricing talks.

Irish food products are big in UK which is probably the most undemanding market in terms of food quality. Talk to any nationality on the continent and the will all agree that UK food is rubbish and when you ask about Irish food they will say is it not the same as UK.

Sad as it is to say in UK supermarkets Irish beef is cheaper than UK beef so much for its superior quality.

Now can we all hear your considered arguements demonstrating that Irish Food is better than Italian. BTW have you ever been to Italy.

The one exception I will make is that Irish butter is better than Italian butter

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

[/B]

Like wise the french, you only see french made cars in france, whereas the Irish believe if it's irish it's rubbish

If that's the case wrangler explain the success of Malone machinery, McHale and most irish agri trailer manufacturers

Base price

Base price wrote: »

"Food quality in Italy is a lot higher than in Ireland"
Woah, that is some statement - I'm sure that you can back it up with the relevant scientific publications.

Robeman wrote: »

Food quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have experience of eating both over long periods and in my view Italian food is of higher quality. Bad food is just not accepted in Italy.

In addition to that I suggest that you go into any any European supermarket. Compare the shelf spacing devoted to Italian produce and Irish produce. assuming you can find comparabile products the Italian will be priced higher.
Spacing and pricing talks.

Irish food products are big in UK which is probably the most undemanding market in terms of food quality. Talk to any nationality on the continent and the will all agree that UK food is rubbish and when you ask about Irish food they will say is it not the same as UK.

Sad as it is to say in UK supermarkets Irish beef is cheaper than UK beef so much for its superior quality.

Now can we all hear your considered arguements demonstrating that Irish Food is better than Italian. BTW have you ever been to Italy.

The one exception I will make is that Irish butter is better than Italian butter

So it's your opinion - we are all entitled to one

coolshannagh28

Robeman wrote: »

Irish food products are big in UK which is probably the most undemanding market in terms of food quality. Talk to any nationality on the continent and the will all agree that UK food is rubbish and when you ask about Irish food they will say is it not the same as UK.

Sad as it is to say in UK supermarkets Irish beef is cheaper than UK beef so much for its superior quality.

The UK is out biggest market , the question that has to be asked is this, is the Irish product cheaper because of a lazy stack it high sell it cheap marketing strategy by our processors or because it is inferior ?

patsy_mccabe

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The UK is out biggest market , the question that has to be asked is this, is the Irish product cheaper because of a lazy stack it high sell it cheap marketing strategy by our processors or because it is inferior ?

Well look at it this way - If English beef was sold in Ireland, how cheap would it have to be before you, as a typical Irish shopper, would buy it over Irish beef.

coolshannagh28

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well look at it this way - If English beef was sold in Ireland, how cheap would it have to be before you, as a typical Irish shopper, would buy it over Irish beef.

I can agree with the sentiment but we are constantly bombarded about the quality of Irish beef is it properly marketed ? look at the kerrygold story .

White Clover

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well look at it this way - If English beef was sold in Ireland, how cheap would it have to be before you, as a typical Irish shopper, would buy it over Irish beef.

The British don't produce enough beef for the home market. They know our beef is good but why is it so heavily discounted?

patsy_mccabe

White Clover wrote: »

The British don't produce enough beef for the home market. They know our beef is good but why is it so heavily discounted?

The higher it's priced, the less they sell. That's the reality of sales.