Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Albert Johnson

wrangler wrote: »

Also it's only the equivalent of I store bullock to 9 acres, some seem to be confusing it with the dole where you get paid for doing nothing

Wrangler I respect your input both past and present into all thing's farming, you've been at the coal face for a lot longer than myself and done well for yourself in the process and rightly so. However you can be somewhat condescending at times, it's hard to understand what marginal ground is without having first hand experience of it. I too sometimes like to create a reaction from people with a loaded comment such as the above so I can usually see the same trait in others.

I was of the opinion that the clue was in the name regarding the ANC payments (Area of natural constraint) if the eligible land was capable of matching the stocking rates of better regions then we wouldn't need such a subsidy. If anyone with a good ranch of land East of the Shannon wants to swap for my few fragmented rushy acres and a humble ANC yearly sub there more than welcome to enquire. Perhaps one wintering season from the end of October till mid May would open there eyes as to how the other side lives!

wrangler

Albert Johnson wrote: »

Wrangler I respect your input both past and present into all thing's farming, you've been at the coal face for a lot longer than myself and done well for yourself in the process and rightly so. However you can be somewhat condescending at times, it's hard to understand what marginal ground is without having first hand experience of it. I too sometimes like to create a reaction from people with a loaded comment such as the above so I can usually see the same trait in others.

I was of the opinion that the clue was in the name regarding the ANC payments (Area of natural constraint) if the eligible land was capable of matching the stocking rates of better regions then we wouldn't need such a subsidy. If anyone with a good ranch of land East of the Shannon wants to swap for my few fragmented rushy acres and a humble ANC yearly sub there more than welcome to enquire. Perhaps one wintering season from the end of October till mid May would open there eyes as to how the other side lives!

Not a great image to be paying farmers for doing nothing, back to the good old ''setaside'' days I suppose.
Fulltime drystock farmers east of the shannon are probably the worst off now

_Brian

Albert Johnson wrote: »

Wrangler I respect your input both past and present into all thing's farming, you've been at the coal face for a lot longer than myself and done well for yourself in the process and rightly so. However you can be somewhat condescending at times, it's hard to understand what marginal ground is without having first hand experience of it. I too sometimes like to create a reaction from people with a loaded comment such as the above so I can usually see the same trait in others.

I was of the opinion that the clue was in the name regarding the ANC payments (Area of natural constraint) if the eligible land was capable of matching the stocking rates of better regions then we wouldn't need such a subsidy. If anyone with a good ranch of land East of the Shannon wants to swap for my few fragmented rushy acres and a humble ANC yearly sub there more than welcome to enquire. Perhaps one wintering season from the end of October till mid May would open there eyes as to how the other side lives!

Plenty of shallow soiled constrained farms east of the Shannon too.

Albert Johnson

wrangler wrote: »

Not a great image to be paying farmers for doing nothing, back to the good old ''setaside'' days I suppose.
Fulltime drystock farmers east of the shannon are probably the worst off now

I agree it's not much to aspire to but I don't see much of an alternative either? Producing more for less and less hasn't served us very well in my lifetime. The biggest problem I see when debating the future of our industry as a whole is it turns into a poor mouthing session as to who is worst off. I think the processor's have long since learned to keep us fighting among ourselves and we'll never challenge the real elephant in the room.

I'm probably overly pessimistic but I believe agriculture is largely being phased out in the country. We've lost a large amount of the wider public support, we're just seen as a bunch of subsided polluter's who they could work without. They'd much rather import it from some place else and convince themselves it's carbon, cruelty, air mile or whatever new buzzword free. There'd be a nice big nature reserve outside the cities and no land grabbing farmers to spoil there right to roam. I only have a Mickey mouse farming setup and I'm convinced when I stop so will it. Most of surrounding areas are the same, be all conifers within a generation, a lot of it is already.

Albert Johnson

_Brian wrote: »

Plenty of shallow soiled constrained farms east of the Shannon too.

I have no doubt there is Brian although I was of the opinion that a lot of them also qualified for the ANC? Marginal land is the same regardless of the address, not a killing to be made on it whatever the county.

Bass Reeves

90% of the country gets ANC payments. That the big issue. Now I am lucky enough to get it but I do not begrudge it to other's. I much prefer to see a farmers drawing payments and stocking at minimum rates rather than lads producing cattle at a loss,and calving down suckler cows with a product that there is no economic market for. Lads pumping hundreds of Euro's of ration into cattle producing beef that there is no margin in. The lad that is minimum stocking is doing no damage to anyone

There are other issues that are much more realistic to tackle. Should greening be flat rated. Is it right that a dairy farmer that gets a derogation gets the same % greening on a larger payment as a farmer on poorer quality land that has much more biodiversity. Should any dairy farmer that has a derogation get an ANC payment anyway. The same with any intensive faming operation.If you can intensively farm land is it ANC or greening compliant. We have these artificial​ schemes to that fail the biodiversity system and then encourage farmers to reclam marginal land that dose more for bio diversity's that these sh!tty schemes which are not only of benefit to farmers with large land bases.

Base price

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Is this buying for Larry, I wonder;

https://www.donedeal.ie/all?userId=114065

They are large feeders/finishers that send to several different factories depending on the type of animal, price etc.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

90% of the country gets ANC payments. That the big issue. Now I am lucky enough to get it but I do not begrudge it to other's. I much prefer to see a farmers drawing payments and stocking at minimum rates rather than lads producing cattle at a loss,and calving down suckler cows with a product that there is no economic market for. Lads pumping hundreds of Euro's of ration into cattle producing beef that there is no margin in. The lad that is minimum stocking is doing no damage to anyone

There are other issues that are much more realistic to tackle. Should greening be flat rated. Is it right that a dairy farmer that gets a derogation gets the same % greening on a larger payment as a farmer on poorer quality land that has much more biodiversity. Should any dairy farmer that has a derogation get an ANC payment anyway. The same with any intensive faming operation.If you can intensively farm land is it ANC or greening compliant. We have these artificial​ schemes to that fail the biodiversity system and then encourage farmers to reclam marginal land that dose more for bio diversity's that these sh!tty schemes which are not only of benefit to farmers with large land bases.

Is it right that a dairy farmer gets the same as a drystock farmer!!!!!!

dh1985

Bass Reeves wrote: »

90% of the country gets ANC payments. That the big issue. Now I am lucky enough to get it but I do not begrudge it to other's. I much prefer to see a farmers drawing payments and stocking at minimum rates rather than lads producing cattle at a loss,and calving down suckler cows with a product that there is no economic market for. Lads pumping hundreds of Euro's of ration into cattle producing beef that there is no margin in. The lad that is minimum stocking is doing no damage to anyone

There are other issues that are much more realistic to tackle. Should greening be flat rated. Is it right that a dairy farmer that gets a derogation gets the same % greening on a larger payment as a farmer on poorer quality land that has much more biodiversity. Should any dairy farmer that has a derogation get an ANC payment anyway. The same with any intensive faming operation.If you can intensively farm land is it ANC or greening compliant. We have these artificial​ schemes to that fail the biodiversity system and then encourage farmers to reclam marginal land that dose more for bio diversity's that these sh!tty schemes which are not only of benefit to farmers with large land bases.

Is it possible for you to post without taking snipes at suckler farmers. Why do you think you are deserving of a living from farming your system than the suckler man. The beef sector would be better served looking for a for a better return for there product no matter what it is than pointing fingers at other systems.

Bass Reeves

dh1985 wrote: »

Is it possible for you to post without taking snipes at suckler farmers. Why do you think you are deserving of a living from farming your system than the suckler man. The beef sector would be better served looking for a for a better return for there product no matter what it is than pointing fingers at other systems.

I taught I had a pop at 3-4 different groups there. However if we look at market realities suckler cattle are only viable at prices well above 4/ kg and then only of carcasses can be taken to above 450DW as well as good efficiency. At least 50% of suckler farmers are uneconomic no matter what they do. For some there seems to be an entitlement to produce no matter what the market realty. It like lads trying to grow tillage crops west of the shannon. There is no point shooting the messenger

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Is it right that a dairy farmer gets the same as a drystock farmer!!!!!!

That's a good question. In a free market economy where you subsidize farming should you set subsidity's at different levels compared to different activities. 3-5 years ago I would have said no but now I would look at it slighty different.

However I have always believed that artificial subsidity's discourage economic farming. But we can within the system change the way subsidity's are delivered and yet target economic and biodiversity realities. Greening should not be percentages based.but rather flat rated across farming and removed from derogation farms. I am not sure what way ANC funding is set It is funded by government and the EU but are rates set by the EU. If the funds are delivered to us regardless of delivery should we retarget them away from dairy farmers just as it is not easy for tillage only farmers to access them.

By using funding like this we still do not discriminate against commercial realities but still change finding towards biodiversity, lower income systems and poorer land. However we discourage forestry.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

That's a good question. In a free market economy where you subsidize farming should you set subsidity's at different levels compared to different activities. 3-5 years ago I would have said no but now I would look at it slighty different.

However I have always believed that artificial subsidity's discourage economic farming. But we can within the system change the way subsidity's are delivered and yet target economic and biodiversity realities. Greening should not be percentages based.but rather flat rated across farming and removed from derogation farms. I am not sure what way ANC funding is set It is funded by government and the EU but are rates set by the EU. If the funds are delivered to us regardless of delivery should we retarget them away from dairy farmers just as it is not easy for tillage only farmers to access them.

By using funding like this we still do not discriminate against commercial realities but still change finding towards biodiversity, lower income systems and poorer land. However we discourage forestry.

BPM's support of 100% convergence of BPS is totally against suckler farmers and beef farmers,especially full time farmers, good suckler farmers would have above average entitlements.
Taking income off these farmers and giving it to dairy farmers and parttime farmers couldn't be seen as pro suckler farmers

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

BPM's support of 100% convergence of BPS is totally against suckler farmers and beef farmers,especially full time farmers, good suckler farmers would have above average entitlements.
Taking income off these farmers and giving it to dairy farmers and parttime farmers couldn't be seen as pro suckler farmers

Define a good suckler farmer please

patsy_mccabe

Grueller wrote: »

Define a good suckler farmer please

Doesn't drink, smoke, gamble or beat the wife. :cool:

Grueller

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Doesn't drink, smoke, gamble or beat the wife. :cool:

Only one he can afford to do from that list is beat the wife.

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

Define a good suckler farmer please

A farmer that's on top of his/her game I suppose, they seem to be a target for begrudgery now if their entitlements are over €400/ha

tractorporn

wrangler wrote: »

A farmer that's on top of his/her game I suppose, they seem to be a target for begrudgery now if their entitlements are over €400/ha

What does the value of some ones entitlements have to do with them being a good farmer? Most lads are farming entitlements that their fathers built up at this stage.

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

A farmer that's on top of his/her game I suppose, they seem to be a target for begrudgery now if their entitlements are over €400/ha

High value entitlements don't equal a good farmer today. It means that at one point in time that farmer was very active. That is not necessarily the case since then.

jaymla627

wrangler wrote: »

BPM's support of 100% convergence of BPS is totally against suckler farmers and beef farmers,especially full time farmers, good suckler farmers would have above average entitlements.
Taking income off these farmers and giving it to dairy farmers and parttime farmers couldn't be seen as pro suckler farmers

Shouldn't you paraphrase it as it's against a specific section that have been up on the golden goose for the past 15 odd years coining it and are starting to sweat now with the beef game screwed and the cheque in the post reducing they are faced with either renting the place out our having to go milking
cows....
You have a great air of superiority how the older generation Should be looked after and f**k anyone coming after ye...

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

High value entitlements don't equal a good farmer today. It means that at one point in time that farmer was very active. That is not necessarily the case since then.

And it doesn't mean that young farmers are going to be good either, I saw a ''young farmer'' spreading slurry on six inches of grass earlier just because the field was always a silage field and he couldn't be bothered putting a fence round it to graze it.
Me renting out my entitlements is no more hideous than that guy getting his YF top up

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

And it doesn't mean that young farmers are going to be good either, I saw a ''young farmer'' spreading slurry on six inches of grass earlier just because the field was always a silage field and he couldn't be bothered putting a fence round it to graze it.
Me renting out my entitlements is no more hideous than that guy getting his YF top up

Never did I say young farmers means good farmers. You linked high payments to "good suckler farmers". Stocking fates of 17 years ago are a mental way to distribute eu funds today.

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

Never did I say young farmers means good farmers. You linked high payments to "good suckler farmers". Stocking fates of 17 years ago are a mental way to distribute eu funds today.

Maybe, but it will be to the detriment of agriculture to turn it into a non means tested social welfare payment for owning land either.
I see BPM is protesting next week at our Farmers Journal beef summit, That has to be the saddest idea so far.....like wtf. What's the point, are IFJ buying cattle now
Dlsappointed now that I can't be there, absolute joke

Track9

Anoither idea that Beef Plan might consider using .
Was looking this evening at souece of fruit & vegetables ( found it hard to locate such from Ireland )
For seome time now we have been using Fairtarde fruit & vegetables & thought how Fairtarde seems not to apply in Irealnd.

---

Below is the first paragraph from the Fair trade organisation.
"Fairtrade is about better prices, decent working conditions, local sustainability, and fair terms of trade for farmers and workers in the developing world. By requiring companies to pay sustainable prices (which must never fall lower than the market price), Fairtrade addresses the injustices of conventional trade, which traditionally discriminates against the poorest, weakest producers. It enables them to improve their position and have more control over their lives."

---

Surely the beef farmers of Ireland need to trade under a (" Fairtrade Regime ) "whereby they get a fair price for their animals.
Any thoughts anyone ?

Cavanjack

wrangler wrote: »

And it doesn't mean that young farmers are going to be good either, I saw a ''young farmer'' spreading slurry on six inches of grass earlier just because the field was always a silage field and he couldn't be bothered putting a fence round it to graze it.
Me renting out my entitlements is no more hideous than that guy getting his YF top up

Saw a neighbour that’s farming for 50 years at the same craic two weeks ago. Maybe the young lad has an excuse (lack of experience/knowledge), the old lad has none. Many’s the lad getting Hugh payments and the ragwort growing across the ditches.

wrangler

Cavanjack wrote: »

Saw a neighbour that’s farming for 50 years at the same craic two weeks ago. Maybe the young lad has an excuse (lack of experience/knowledge), the old lad has none. Many’s the lad getting Hugh payments and the ragwort growing across the ditches.

Yea, I know a guy that bought a lot of good land that he thought had development potential in the celtic tiger years,...... all growing weeds now.
His BPS is increasing now every year due to convergence

Hard Knocks

Grueller wrote: »

High value entitlements don't equal a good farmer today. It means that at one point in time that farmer was very active. That is not necessarily the case since then.

Lots stacked them in the last round as to give up some leased ground

TUBBY

Track9 wrote: »

Anoither idea that Beef Plan might consider using .
Was looking this evening at souece of fruit & vegetables ( found it hard to locate such from Ireland )
For seome time now we have been using Fairtarde fruit & vegetables & thought how Fairtarde seems not to apply in Irealnd.

---

Below is the first paragraph from the Fair trade organisation.
"Fairtrade is about better prices, decent working conditions, local sustainability, and fair terms of trade for farmers and workers in the developing world. By requiring companies to pay sustainable prices (which must never fall lower than the market price), Fairtrade addresses the injustices of conventional trade, which traditionally discriminates against the poorest, weakest producers. It enables them to improve their position and have more control over their lives."

---

Surely the beef farmers of Ireland need to trade under a (" Fairtrade Regime ) "whereby they get a fair price for their animals.
Any thoughts anyone ?

Beef plan have written on this many times.
Also articles 38 to 44 of lisbon treaty promises a fair return to farmers for produce.
EU candidates should answer how they would deliver on this.


Check this out on Agriland - Beef Plan: ‘Fair Trade’ needs to begin at home - https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/beef-plan-fair-trade-ethics-need-to-begin-at-home/

patsy_mccabe

Anyone go to Dublin to protest?

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0710/1061290-beef-protest/

Hurling Hereford

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Anyone go to Dublin to protest?

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0710/1061290-beef-protest/

Good day in Dublin, Good turnout also

memorystick

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

Good day in Dublin, Good turnout also

Yer man with the Irish flag and scarf was great crack. Really got the crowd going. Not sure if he's a finisher or just suckler!!!

older by the day

memorystick wrote: »

Yer man with the Irish flag and scarf was great crack. Really got the crowd going. Not sure if he's a finisher or just suckler!!!

Good on ye for going. I'm near skibb and mixed farming and I'm glad that it brought the some attention to the beef sector. It's a pity the ifa were not backing you more. Anyway good on ye.

Dickie10

yeah i went in to the protest good turnout delighted i went

wrangler

older by the day wrote: »

Good on ye for going. I'm near skibb and mixed farming and I'm glad that it brought the some attention to the beef sector. It's a pity the ifa were not backing you more. Anyway good on ye.

I'd be very disappointed if they did back them, It's not in farmers interest to undermine Irish produce or Bord Bias promotions,
I've been at plenty of world trade protests over the last 20 years ........ I wonder how many yesterday could say that.

older by the day

wrangler wrote: »

I'd be very disappointed if they did back them, It's not in farmers interest to undermine Irish produce or Bord Bias promotions,
I've been at plenty of world trade protests over the last 20 years ........ I wonder how many yesterday could say that.

World trade protests drawing expenses from the small farmers subscriptions like the rest of the big boys

wrangler

older by the day wrote: »

World trade protests drawing expenses from the small farmers subscriptions like the rest of the big boys

Never was allowed draw expenses for protests,
typical attitude though, it's why farmers are where they are now,

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

I'd be very disappointed if they did back them, It's not in farmers interest to undermine Irish produce or Bord Bias promotions,
I've been at plenty of world trade protests over the last 20 years ........ I wonder how many yesterday could say that.

While I do not totally agree with the way the BPM is going I do think they are a breath of fresh air. They seem to have had about 3500 at the protest yesterday. This was a fair achievement by an organisation that has very little of a full time structure.

The problem with farming is everyone is entitled to the margin except the farmer. Its interesting that the FJ has it that Supermarket prices for beef in the UK have risen this year even though EU beef prices to farmers have fallen. We have a situation where beef prices are at there lowest for about 6-7 years and yet the price is increasing in Supermarkets in the UK. Yet processors are telling us there is no demand and every Monday for the last 5 weeks every factory has dropped prices by 5c/kg in unison. Yet we are told there is competition in the sector. We are told that Feedlot cattle have no impact on the price yet at present there is a cohort of ABP, Dawn and Kepak plants quoting a price to farmers supliers that will be 8-12c/kg below there average base price when we see the returns in 2 weeks time

Now we read in the FI last Tuesday that processors are determined to reduce the store price this autumn so that winter finishers might be encouraged to fill there sheds again. They do not give a f@@k so why should we give a f@@k. At present it is immaterial what board bia is doing as it is of no advantage to the farmers the processors and UK retailers are creaming it. So if it all goes belly WGAF as at the moment we are fast approching brazilian prices

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

While I do not totally agree with the way the BPM is going I do think they are a breath of fresh air. They seem to have had about 3500 at the protest yesterday. This was a fair achievement by an organisation that has very little of a full time structure.

The problem with farming is everyone is entitled to the margin except the farmer. Its interesting that the FJ has it that Supermarket prices for beef in the UK have risen this year even though EU beef prices to farmers have fallen. We have a situation where beef prices are at there lowest for about 6-7 years and yet the price is increasing in Supermarkets in the UK. Yet processors are telling us there is no demand and every Monday for the last 5 weeks every factory has dropped prices by 5c/kg in unison. Yet we are told there is competition in the sector. We are told that Feedlot cattle have no impact on the price yet at present there is a cohort of ABP, Dawn and Kepak plants quoting a price to farmers supliers that will be 8-12c/kg below there average base price when we see the returns in 2 weeks time

Now we read in the FI last Tuesday that processors are determined to reduce the store price this autumn so that winter finishers might be encouraged to fill there sheds again. They do not give a f@@k so why should we give a f@@k. At present it is immaterial what board bia is doing as it is of no advantage to the farmers the processors and UK retailers are creaming it. So if it all goes belly WGAF as at the moment we are fast approching brazilian prices

BPM is doing nothing different than IFA did,Wexford IFA carried a coffin in a blizzard from Pheonix Park to Kildare St in a protest twenty years ago and BPM think they invented that, it didn't work then it won't work now, Processor will take in cattle the same as always on monday and give what they like, they'll make their margin.
I can't believe that BPM think independent politicians make a difference, of course they'll say what you tell them to say, of course they'll agree with you but they carry no clout. They might as well be talking about the weather
If I was a processor I wouldn't give a damn what farmers thought or did as long as the cattle kept coming every morning

gerryirl

wrangler wrote: »

BPM is doing nothing different than IFA did,Wexford IFA carried a coffin in a blizzard from Pheonix Park to Kildare St in a protest twenty years ago and BPM think they invented that, it didn't work then it won't work now, Processor will take in cattle the same as always on monday and give what they like, they'll make their margin.
I can't believe that BPM think independent politicians make a difference, of course they'll say what you tell them to say, of course they'll agree with you but they carry no clout. They might as well be talking about the weather
If I was a processor I wouldn't give a damn what farmers thought or did as long as the cattle kept coming every morning

While I do agree with your comments at the end of your post there I don’t agree with your views on the BPM to some degree. Yes the have not invented anything new but what they are doing is trying to do something. The ifa are missing in action and I’m an ifa member . What have they done the last year . Yes they lobbied etc . Where is the ifa of old where is the fight gone . There like a school boy in the yard kicking stones around while the big boys play football .

yosemitesam1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

While I do not totally agree with the way the BPM is going I do think they are a breath of fresh air. They seem to have had about 3500 at the protest yesterday. This was a fair achievement by an organisation that has very little of a full time structure.

The problem with farming is everyone is entitled to the margin except the farmer. Its interesting that the FJ has it that Supermarket prices for beef in the UK have risen this year even though EU beef prices to farmers have fallen. We have a situation where beef prices are at there lowest for about 6-7 years and yet the price is increasing in Supermarkets in the UK. Yet processors are telling us there is no demand and every Monday for the last 5 weeks every factory has dropped prices by 5c/kg in unison. Yet we are told there is competition in the sector. We are told that Feedlot cattle have no impact on the price yet at present there is a cohort of ABP, Dawn and Kepak plants quoting a price to farmers supliers that will be 8-12c/kg below there average base price when we see the returns in 2 weeks time

Now we read in the FI last Tuesday that processors are determined to reduce the store price this autumn so that winter finishers might be encouraged to fill there sheds again. They do not give a f@@k so why should we give a f@@k. At present it is immaterial what board bia is doing as it is of no advantage to the farmers the processors and UK retailers are creaming it. So if it all goes belly WGAF as at the moment we are fast approching brazilian prices

How much of UK price increases could be down to increased cold storage costs etc. Lots of competition for space especially with Christmas preparation needing to start earlier

wrangler

gerryirl wrote: »

While I do agree with your comments at the end of your post there I don’t agree with your views on the BPM to some degree. Yes the have not invented anything new but what they are doing is trying to do something. The ifa are missing in action and I’m an ifa member . What have they done the last year . Yes they lobbied etc . Where is the ifa of old where is the fight gone . There like a school boy in the yard kicking stones around while the big boys play football .

Why continue with protests when they are futile, waste everybodies time, that was becoming apparent ten years ago,
Ifa are constantly lobbying politicians, this week they had the politicians into the Davenport hotel on wednesday. There's also a delegation in Europe this week, Ireland has to get some support from other countries to make any impression now against this trade agreement.
You only have to go back through posts on boards here to see the huge criticism when a protest was arranged, protesting is dead now, it's just as useless led by BPM as it was led by IFA
BPM showing no more initiative than IFA will prove that their criticism of IFA is Bulls..t and only an effort to goad IFA when they're too lazy/cowardly to do it themselves. They said they'd disrupt supplies to the factories, time for them to get their finger out now methinks

gerryirl

So do you think what the ifa are at now(whatever that is) is better than what the BPM is at

Coonagh

older by the day wrote: »

World trade protests drawing expenses from the small farmers subscriptions like the rest of the big boys

I know wrangler addressed this already but as a current IFA officer I really take exception to this kind of misinformed statement. I’ve no problem with some of the criticism I’ve been hearing about perceived IFA inaction. In fact I think we can expect nothing more as we have just not been good enough in the communications dept. However statements like the above when they appear online or in social media are being swallowed up as fact. NO ONE claims or is allowed claim expenses for a protest/demonstration END OF. I hope people take this on board as good decent people’s reputations are being unfairly damaged by such speculation.

jaymla627

wrangler wrote: »

Why continue with protests when they are futile, waste everybodies time, that was becoming apparent ten years ago,
Ifa are constantly lobbying politicians, this week they had the politicians into the Davenport hotel on wednesday. There's also a delegation in Europe this week, Ireland has to get some support from other countries to make any impression now against this trade agreement.
You only have to go back through posts on boards here to see the huge criticism when a protest was arranged, protesting is dead now, it's just as useless led by BPM as it was led by IFA
BPM showing no more initiative than IFA will prove that their criticism of IFA is Bulls..t and only an effort to goad IFA when they're too lazy/cowardly to do it themselves. They said they'd disrupt supplies to the factories, time for them to get their finger out now methinks

You where lauding it over them not so long ago over their inability to gather numbers and protest, now that they have and made national headlines you have changed stance again and are still dismissing them out of hand....
It’s pretty obvious that the current fg government has abandoned agriculture, zero point in lobbying creed/Leo and co, likewise in European circles...
It needs to be conveyed across to the factories processors and our state bodies that farmers are done with been glorified slave labor, and if for instance the beef sector is finished the onus is on the government to bring in environmental schemes and create viable industries like bio-fuels/digesters etc to keep rural Ireland alive and not morph into dead zones

gerryirl

Coonagh wrote: »

I know wrangler addressed this already but as a current IFA officer I really take exception to this kind of misinformed statement. I’ve no problem with some of the criticism I’ve been hearing about perceived IFA inaction. In fact I think we can expect nothing more as we have just not been good enough in the communications dept. However statements like the above when they appear online or in social media are being swallowed up as fact. NO ONE claims or is allowed claim expenses for a protest/demonstration END OF. I hope people take this on board as good decent people’s reputations are being unfairly damaged by such speculation.

Thanks for replying .at least we know the IFA are still in existence .....ill get my coat

wrangler

gerryirl wrote: »

So do you think what the ifa are at now(whatever that is) is better than what the BPM is at

I know that pussy footing around at protests isn't worth a f....
I led a group that stopped road construction until we got a better deal (which incidentally changed the terms of land aquisition for roads for the first time since the brits thought them up) , That's the sort of radical action thats needed.
Only for Groups like IFA we'd be twenty years into a similar trade agreement to the mercusor,
What sickens me is farmers that wouldn't bother their backside for other farmers criticising those who do, you're whingeing about voluntary officers not keeping the pressure on even though they have their own farms to look after and you wouldn't bother your backside yourself.
I've said it many times here myself it's farmers on the ground that'll win the war against the factories, no point in a group getting a commitment from processor to improve prices and then a farmer takes 10c/kg less.
As for BPM vs IFA, BPM have to do better than IFA or get outa the way while they've still some dignity left

wrangler

Coonagh wrote: »

I know wrangler addressed this already but as a current IFA officer I really take exception to this kind of misinformed statement. I’ve no problem with some of the criticism I’ve been hearing about perceived IFA inaction. In fact I think we can expect nothing more as we have just not been good enough in the communications dept. However statements like the above when they appear online or in social media are being swallowed up as fact. NO ONE claims or is allowed claim expenses for a protest/demonstration END OF. I hope people take this on board as good decent people’s reputations are being unfairly damaged by such speculation.

I'm sure there's plenty of press releases going out but farming is no longer newsworthy. Between 1995 when I was county secretary and 2012 when I was county Chair there was a big difference in getting into papers also farmers don't buy the IFJ so they haven't a clue what's going on........ and of course can't be bothered getting involved or going to meetings as well.
As for protests, voluntary officers should never have to go to protests, they do enough apart from attending protests, the sad thing is that if they didn't go there'd be no one at a a lot of them

older by the day

Coonagh wrote: »

I know wrangler addressed this already but as a current IFA officer I really take exception to this kind of misinformed statement. I’ve no problem with some of the criticism I’ve been hearing about perceived IFA inaction. In fact I think we can expect nothing more as we have just not been good enough in the communications dept. However statements like the above when they appear online or in social media are being swallowed up as fact. NO ONE claims or is allowed claim expenses for a protest/demonstration END OF. I hope people take this on board as good decent people’s reputations are being unfairly damaged by such speculation.

That's grand so then. We will all just sit back and wait and won't bother protesting. While your busy thinking up schemes like the new GLAS and the beef grid. Make sure to look after the big SFP for the big guys. Don't dare cap that . No change there anyway.

wrangler

older by the day wrote: »

That's grand so then. We will all just sit back and wait and won't bother protesting. While your busy thinking up schemes like the new GLAS and the beef grid. Make sure to look after the big SFP for the big guys. Don't dare cap that . No change there anyway.

Officers are all elected by members, they wouldn't be elected if they didn't represent their counties, there's meetings in every county every month, so your comments are pathetic and begrudging,
I was well represented and have only 50 Has, so I'm not one of your so called ''big guys'' Maybe you should look inside your own farm gate if you're in a mess.
There's lots of farmers getting money out of Glas.
You mustn't be on here long if you haven't seen the whingeing and begrudgery on here when I'd be flagging protests in the past......there was anything but good support for them...How the f..k could anyone represent yous, the present national officers have my sympathy, how many time has it been said on here that protests were vote seeking etc etc.
You want schemes and when ye get them there's a whinge, go on teh dole if ye want something for nothing .....childish or what

gerryirl

wrangler wrote: »

I know that pussy footing around at protests isn't worth a f....
I led a group that stopped road construction until we got a better deal (which incidentally changed the terms of land aquisition for roads for the first time since the brits thought them up) , That's the sort of radical action thats needed.
Only for Groups like IFA we'd be twenty years into a similar trade agreement to the mercusor,
What sickens me is farmers that wouldn't bother their backside for other farmers criticising those who do, you're whingeing about voluntary officers not keeping the pressure on even though they have their own farms to look after and you wouldn't bother your backside yourself.
I've said it many times here myself it's farmers on the ground that'll win the war against the factories, no point in a group getting a commitment from processor to improve prices and then a farmer takes 10c/kg less.
As for BPM vs IFA, BPM have to do better than IFA or get outa the way while they've still some dignity left

lets not make this personal please. you dont know me or what ive done for farming and for the record I have gained substantial funding for the local farming community a number of months ago so yes i did get off my arse and do something so i think I have just as good a right as anyone to criticise where I see fit

older by the day

gerryirl wrote: »

lets not make this personal please. you dont know me or what ive done for farming and for the record I have gained substantial funding for the local farming community a number of months ago so yes i did get off my arse and do something so i think I have just as good a right as anyone to criticise where I see fit

I know of great men who gave loads of time and effort and I would no way insult them or you my friend. But as a union it's not representing me or most family farms. And as most here work long awkward hours forums like this are the way we vent our frustration with the IFA as the biggest farming union.