Should self inflicted wounded people use our A&E departments?

pekitivey

Skarlett Black wrote: »

I fell and broke my back putting a picture up in the sittingroom. - Sure I didnt need a picture in the sittingroom really did I?
I dropped a television on my foot and broke a bone. - I suppose I didn't really need to move the telly. Do we really need televisions anyway?
I burnt myself badly with the kettle making a cup of tea. - Did I really need to be making tea?
I dislocated my knee playing soccer. - Did I really need to be playing sports?
I went hillwalking and fell down the hill and cracked my skull. - Did I really need to be out walking and enjoying a day out?
I was cycling to work and got a belt of a car. - Did I really need to be going to work though?


Come on like.

Well said, perhaps we should all stay inside on the weekends. No TV, no electricity, no heat. Just sit there until we have to go to work again.

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

you can pass these onto third party debt collection agencies who can either take them on in full or they can recover the outstanding debts on behalf of the health service...

Oh aye I personally am terrified of those letters through the post box :pac: debt collectors have no power in Ireland to do anything.

Andy From Sligo

Skarlett Black wrote: »

I fell and broke my back putting a picture up in the sittingroom. - Sure I didnt need a picture in the sittingroom really did I?
I dropped a television on my foot and broke a bone. - I suppose I didn't really need to move the telly. Do we really need televisions anyway?
I burnt myself badly with the kettle making a cup of tea. - Did I really need to be making tea?
I dislocated my knee playing soccer. - Did I really need to be playing sports?
I went hillwalking and fell down the hill and cracked my skull. - Did I really need to be out walking and enjoying a day out?
I was cycling to work and got a belt of a car. - Did I really need to be going to work though?


Come on like.

<claps> - your not the first person to dissect it all out of proportion on here . dont think you will be the last either.

you go climbing a mountain , you havent got the correct gear - why do you think you should get mountain rescue out and then take up space in A&E department/cubical .. why do you think you shouldnt pay through the nosefor it? - why do you think you should take up space in a A&E waiting room or cubicle and deprive someone else from faster treatment just because you wanted to climb a mountain?

Andy From Sligo

Sonny Faint GrocerMGS wrote: »

Oh aye I personally am terrified of those letters through the post box :pac: debt collectors have no power in Ireland to do anything.

you think?

Andy From Sligo

Skarlett Black wrote: »

I fell and broke my back putting a picture up in the sittingroom. - Sure I didnt need a picture in the sittingroom really did I?
I dropped a television on my foot and broke a bone. - I suppose I didn't really need to move the telly. Do we really need televisions anyway?
I burnt myself badly with the kettle making a cup of tea. - Did I really need to be making tea?
I dislocated my knee playing soccer. - Did I really need to be playing sports?
I went hillwalking and fell down the hill and cracked my skull. - Did I really need to be out walking and enjoying a day out?
I was cycling to work and got a belt of a car. - Did I really need to be going to work though?


Come on like.

God did this really happen? - your quite clumsy if you did - walking disaster so you are

I love hypothetical answers as they hold no weight in a conversation or debate

pekitivey

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

<claps> - your not the first person to dissect it all out of proportion on here . dont think you will be the last either.

you go climbing a mountain , you havent got the correct gear - why do you think you should get mountain rescue out and then take up space in A&E department/cubical .. why do you think you shouldnt pay through the nosefor it? - why do you think you should take up space in a A&E waiting room or cubicle and deprive someone else from faster treatment just because you wanted to climb a mountain?

You are aware these people are not the ones clogging the system? In fact trauma cases like that is about 10% of the case treated in A+E. The vast majority of people going to A+E are people who could be treated by a GP but an emergency consultant has whats called "Access to investigations" so people take advantage of this rather than waiting on a waiting list for 6 months to get an MRI, or what ever the case may by.

Have you ever heard of a Primary Health Care Center? If not go look it up. There is not enough of them just yet but they certainly take pressure off of A+E's to some degree.

Andy From Sligo

pekitivey wrote: »

You are aware these people are not the ones clogging the system? In fact trauma cases like that is about 10% of the case treated in A+E. The vast majority of people going to A+E are people who could be treated by a GP but an emergency consultant has whats called "Access to investigations" so people take advantage of this rather than waiting on a waiting list for 6 months to get an MRI, or what ever the case may by.

Have you ever heard of a Primary Health Care Center? If not go look it up. There is not enough of them just yet but they certainly take pressure off of A+E's to some degree.

oh yeah indeed - i was just using the mountain climber as one of the examples . of course its not right people in there taking up space that could have been treated by GP thats one of my bugbears as well .. there was that thing at a time as well where for non-medical card patients it was cheaper to go to A&E rather than see your GP

Primary health care centres are indeed a good idea ... but how long are they going to be open for ... if they are open 24hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year great .. but i am hedging my bets that they wont be ... so then people will go to A&E

pekitivey

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh yeah indeed - i was just using the mountain climber as one of the examples . of course its not right people in there taking up space that could have been treated by GP thats one of my bugbears as well .. there was that thing at a time as well where for non-medical card patients it was cheaper to go to A&E rather than see your GP

Primary health care centres are indeed a good idea ... but how long are they going to be open for ... if they are open 24hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year great .. but i am hedging my bets that they wont be ... so then people will go to A&E

How much nursing staff do you think there is? We can hardly staff the A+E's in existence not a mind 24 hour primary health care, plus most cities in Ireland have a 24/7 GP in cork its called South Doc, in Waterford Care Doc. Also, not one private health care establishment would be equipped to deal with mid to severe trauma cases. The best trauma doctors work in the HSE. So denying someone top level care in a first world country because they fell off their bike seems a bit unusual would you think?

On a positive side we can agree something needs to be done about the time wasters showing up with no accidents or emergencies.

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

you think?

I do not think. I know.

SusieBlue

pekitivey wrote: »

You are aware these people are not the ones clogging the system? In fact trauma cases like that is about 10% of the case treated in A+E. The vast majority of people going to A+E are people who could be treated by a GP but an emergency consultant has whats called "Access to investigations" so people take advantage of this rather than waiting on a waiting list for 6 months to get an MRI, or what ever the case may by.

Have you ever heard of a Primary Health Care Center? If not go look it up. There is not enough of them just yet but they certainly take pressure off of A+E's to some degree.

Exactly.
The last time I broke my ankle, I was waiting to be seen to and got talking to the woman next to me, who was in A&E because she had a pain in her wrist. She hadn't fallen, she could move it, she could move her fingers, but it was a bit sore, so she thought it better to be safe than sorry.
In the end it transpired she had repetitive strain injury (she updated me on her way out) that she had developed from knitting.
She had absolutely no business in A&E. Its people like that showing up with non urgent general queries that are the problem.

witchgirl26

On the drunks being discharged from A&E - you do realise that you are required to sign a waiver if you leave A&E prior to completing the prescribed tests or treatment to say that you refused treatment and therefore what happens is your own fault? I've seen quite a few drunks be brought in and decide they want out and sign the waiver. If anything happens to them afterwards then they have no come back on the HSE for it.

Also on the self-inflicted. My mam had to go into A&E a few years ago - she was washing a plate in very hot water, plate split (it was quite old) and sliced through her thumb. Would that be considered her own fault for having the water too hot? So despite the fact that she was bleeding profusely from her thumb & you could see bone, should she have been left there behind other people who maybe had lesser injuries but not "self-inflicted"?

I've been lucky that I've never been in A&E myself but been there for family. I was sat with one family member who didn't outwardly look like there was that much wrong with them maybe to people walking by but in reality they were in a huge amount of pain as they had been hit in the eye by something and had actually torn their cornea. You can't tell just by looking at someone in a waiting room what's wrong with them at all. That's why triage works. My family member was assessed and given some pain killers to help but faced a 2 hour wait as they needed to see the eye specialist. Others who came in after were seen quicker because they had more serious problems. And yes triage nurses sometimes do get it wrong but hey, they're human and that's why often they'll do up the notes and these can be looked at by other members of the medical team.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

witchgirl26 wrote: »

On the drunks being discharged from A&E - you do realise that you are required to sign a waiver if you leave A&E prior to completing the prescribed tests or treatment to say that you refused treatment and therefore what happens is your own fault? I've seen quite a few drunks be brought in and decide they want out and sign the waiver. If anything happens to them afterwards then they have no come back on the HSE for it.

Also on the self-inflicted. My mam had to go into A&E a few years ago - she was washing a plate in very hot water, plate split (it was quite old) and sliced through her thumb. Would that be considered her own fault for having the water too hot? So despite the fact that she was bleeding profusely from her thumb & you could see bone, should she have been left there behind other people who maybe had lesser injuries but not "self-inflicted"?

I've been lucky that I've never been in A&E myself but been there for family. I was sat with one family member who didn't outwardly look like there was that much wrong with them maybe to people walking by but in reality they were in a huge amount of pain as they had been hit in the eye by something and had actually torn their cornea. You can't tell just by looking at someone in a waiting room what's wrong with them at all. That's why triage works. My family member was assessed and given some pain killers to help but faced a 2 hour wait as they needed to see the eye specialist. Others who came in after were seen quicker because they had more serious problems. And yes triage nurses sometimes do get it wrong but hey, they're human and that's why often they'll do up the notes and these can be looked at by other members of the medical team.

Stop talking sense, woman. Andy thinks A&E needs another layer of complexity, goddammit!

witchgirl26

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Stop talking sense, woman. Andy thinks A&E needs another layer of complexity, goddammit!

Sorry!! What was I thinking! I'll get my pitchfork and join in.

Grr, boo and hiss to the current method of A&E that works the world over in the fairest way :P

Andy From Sligo

SusieBlue wrote: »

Exactly.
The last time I broke my ankle, I was waiting to be seen to and got talking to the woman next to me, who was in A&E because she had a pain in her wrist. She hadn't fallen, she could move it, she could move her fingers, but it was a bit sore, so she thought it better to be safe than sorry.
In the end it transpired she had repetitive strain injury (she updated me on her way out) that she had developed from knitting.
She had absolutely no business in A&E. Its people like that showing up with non urgent general queries that are the problem.

and i agree

Andy From Sligo

witchgirl26 wrote: »

On the drunks being discharged from A&E - you do realise that you are required to sign a waiver if you leave A&E prior to completing the prescribed tests or treatment to say that you refused treatment and therefore what happens is your own fault? .

hmmm.. so just as the staff are chucking out phsically abusive drunks on a weekend night they say "here you wouldnt mind just sticking your signature on this before you go will ye?"

ohnonotgmail

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

hmmm.. so just as the staff are chucking out phsically abusive drunks on a weekend night they say "here you wouldnt mind just sticking your signature on this before you go will ye?"

Physically abusive drunks get arrested not chucked out.

Andy From Sligo

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Also on the self-inflicted. My mam had to go into A&E a few years ago - she was washing a plate in very hot water, plate split (it was quite old) and sliced through her thumb. Would that be considered her own fault for having the water too hot? So despite the fact that she was bleeding profusely from her thumb & you could see bone, should she have been left there behind other people who maybe had lesser injuries but not "self-inflicted"?

dont want to seem heartless but as a matter of fact, was she given a cubicle? ,could a nurse wrap a piece of gauze and hand up to stop the bleeding , was GP around / nurse around anywhere to do stitching - couple of paracetamol for pain, something to stop it bleeding, piece of steralised cotton gauze to clot the blood and keep the dirt out be fine until it got stitches (unless she had a clotting problem) if it stopped bleeding ok then a pop to gp surgery the next day for stitches would have sufficed. - but then again I wasnt there so I didnt see how bad it was. But if it didnt nick a an artery or anything and blood wasnt spurting out it might have been OK to not have to go into A&E with it.

IvyTheTerrific

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

dont want to seem heartless but as a matter of fact, was she given a cubicle? ,could a nurse wrap a piece of gauze and hand up to stop the bleeding , was GP around / nurse around anywhere to do stitching - couple of paracetamol for pain, something to stop it bleeding, piece of steralised cotton gauze to clot the blood and keep the dirt out be fine until it got stitches (unless she had a clotting problem) if it stopped bleeding ok then a pop to gp surgery the next day for stitches would have sufficed. - but then again I wasnt there so I didnt see how bad it was. But if it didnt nick a an artery or anything and blood wasnt spurting out it might have been OK to not have to go into A&E with it.

Pity you weren't there to get stuck in yourself, you seem like a triage expert...

Andy From Sligo

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Sorry!! What was I thinking! I'll get my pitchfork and join in.

Grr, boo and hiss to the current method of A&E that works the world over in the fairest way :P

it dont work properly - I know heard loads of people who say I am not going to A&E I d be in there for hours - if it was working properly they wouldnt even think like that

Andy From Sligo

IvyTheTerrific wrote: »

Pity you weren't there to get stuck in yourself, you seem like a triage expert...

no, but my wife is a first aid trained, and was first aid post where she worked in UK - and have learnt quite a bit off her when someone has sliced into a finger or fainted or had a nose bleed and much more stuff .

people need to be more first aid aware . (that included me) before I would have gone "ooh that looks bad .. come on we better go to A&E" but not now its got to be really serious for us to have to go to A&E these days

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

dont want to seem heartless but as a matter of fact, was she given a cubicle? ,could a nurse wrap a piece of gauze and hand up to stop the bleeding , was GP around / nurse around anywhere to do stitching - couple of paracetamol for pain, something to stop it bleeding, piece of steralised cotton gauze to clot the blood and keep the dirt out be fine until it got stitches (unless she had a clotting problem) if it stopped bleeding ok then a pop to gp surgery the next day for stitches would have sufficed. - but then again I wasnt there so I didnt see how bad it was. But if it didnt nick a an artery or anything and blood wasnt spurting out it might have been OK to not have to go into A&E with it.

Eh, you don’t need to hit an artery for a cut to be very serious. Some require emergency surgery, as happened to a relation of mine a few weeks back. There was a lot of damage done to his hand.

Andy From Sligo

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Physically abusive drunks get arrested not chucked out.

not all - some rowdy ones just get thrown out by hospital security guards

Andy From Sligo

lot of 'experts' on here

gctest50

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

it dont work properly - I know heard loads of people who say I am not going to A&E I d be in there for hours - if it was working properly they wouldnt even think like that

It's working to plan :

It's like if you got the scour every second or third time you went to McDowells, eventually you'd give up n go to the real McD's


Meanwhile they get it right a lot of the time and collect € 100 a go

Andy From Sligo

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Eh, you don’t need to hit an artery for a cut to be very serious. Some require emergency surgery, as happened to a relation of mine a few weeks back. There was a lot of damage done to his hand.

different to just slicing top of finger ...

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

lot of 'experts' on here

Says the guy who wrote this post:

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

dont want to seem heartless but as a matter of fact, was she given a cubicle? ,could a nurse wrap a piece of gauze and hand up to stop the bleeding , was GP around / nurse around anywhere to do stitching - couple of paracetamol for pain, something to stop it bleeding, piece of steralised cotton gauze to clot the blood and keep the dirt out be fine until it got stitches (unless she had a clotting problem) if it stopped bleeding ok then a pop to gp surgery the next day for stitches would have sufficed. - but then again I wasnt there so I didnt see how bad it was. But if it didnt nick a an artery or anything and blood wasnt spurting out it might have been OK to not have to go into A&E with it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

different to just slicing top of finger ...

You don’t know how serious that poster’s mother’s cut was. There’s not enough information given to make a judgement.

Andy From Sligo

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You don’t know how serious that poster’s mother’s cut was. There’s not enough information given to make a judgement.

that is true

just hazarding a guess and jumping to conclusions .. a bit like others on here who think they have me all sussed out and think I am some kind of expert for suggesting/telling people what i think is wrong with A&E departments

SusieBlue

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

no, but my wife is a first aid trained, and was first aid post where she worked in UK - and have learnt quite a bit off her when someone has sliced into a finger or fainted or had a nose bleed and much more stuff .

people need to be more first aid aware . (that included me) before I would have gone "ooh that looks bad .. come on we better go to A&E" but not now its got to be really serious for us to have to go to A&E these days

If your wife was trained in first aid she would have recognized that she was having an anaphylactic reaction to the kiwi and would have been able to immediately alert the hospital staff to the severity of the situation.
Even with minimal first aid training (which is what I have) she would have known she needed an epipen when her tongue started swelling.
Something here isn’t adding up.

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

dont want to seem heartless but as a matter of fact, was she given a cubicle? ,could a nurse wrap a piece of gauze and hand up to stop the bleeding , was GP around / nurse around anywhere to do stitching - couple of paracetamol for pain, something to stop it bleeding, piece of steralised cotton gauze to clot the blood and keep the dirt out be fine until it got stitches (unless she had a clotting problem) if it stopped bleeding ok then a pop to gp surgery the next day for stitches would have sufficed. - but then again I wasnt there so I didnt see how bad it was. But if it didnt nick a an artery or anything and blood wasnt spurting out it might have been OK to not have to go into A&E with it.

If it had “nicked” an atery she would have been dead inside of 3 minutes.