Unpopular Opinion versus Hate Speech

Captain Obvious

I wonder if we can have a discussion on what is or is not allowed to be said on the site. This issue has arisen in relation to a number of topics over the years but I think the most recent hot topics are travellers and transgender people. There doesn't appear to be any consistency with how the rules are understood and sometimes enforced. I've seen posts calling travellers all sorts remain up while a post from someone saying they don't believe in more than two genders be removed.


I just want to be clear here, I'm not criticising whatever level of enforcement is taken, just it's consistency. I am not the one who has to deal with the fallout so I don't blame Boards if they want to take a strict approach. I'd just like the rules fleshed out a little.

One eyed Jack

I think they’re going for consensus over consistency, as in the difference between whether an opinion is just an unpopular opinion, or hate speech, is it’s popularity (or indeed unpopularity) among those people involved in the discussion.

Beasty

I would make some general comments. These are personal comments, and certainly not anything that should be assumed to be formal site policy.

Firstly we saw a lot of feedback that there was too much mod activity/visibility in certain areas. I know for example that the AH mods took a conscious decision to back off a little given comments made and indeed the general consensus in the "Slow Death of Forums" thread

Secondly, different forums will adopt different approaches to certain topics or areas of discussion. That may be due to the nature of the forum, or indeed based on user feedback.

Finally I would mention that there have obviously been examples, with the Presidential election springing to mind, of discussion in the wider community of certain issues that perhaps have not been allowed a great deal of airing. There has perhaps been a general view that opinions not considered "politically correct" have been supressed

Without wishing to suggest I am either side of that "political correctness" debate, recent events, including Brexit and the Trump election, have helped polarise views on both ends of the political spectrum

I don't think this is an area where one size fits all across the site, and as a site I don't think we should suppress discussion on what may be considered controversial views. Clearly we do wish to avoid discussions that may be considered to be against the law, o where there may be lack of clarity of which side of the legal fence they sit

One point to add is that when views can be polarised it may be that posters become uncivil in expressing such views, or indeed their distaste of such views. That's where mods should be stepping in to try and avoid issues escalating

kneemos

Say anything controversial about transgenders the whole internet comes down on your ass.

Say likewise about travellers,well,nobody cares.

I suspect what you can get away with is directly proportionally to the amount of complaints received.

blanch152

Discussions on both of these issues are bound to be controversial.

If someone is talking about trans or other gender issues, and starts talking about why they believe we are seeing an increase in these issues, be it cultural, genetic, plastics in the environment, human overcrowding of the planet, they run the risk of not only offending a large number of people but also of saying something that is offensive or bigoted. It is a very thin line.

Similarly, in talking about travellers, if a poster is criticising the methodology behind determining what is or isn't an ethnic minority or is criticising traveller culture for misogynism or homphobia or attitudes to education or the law, again you run the risk, not only of offending but also of being offensive or racist.

There is a difference in offending someone and being offensive or bigoted. Just because someone takes offense doesn't mean there is something wrong in what is being said.

Canis Lupus

kneemos wrote: »

Say anything controversial about transgenders the whole internet comes down on your ass.

Say likewise about travellers,well,nobody cares.

I suspect what you can get away with is directly proportionally to the amount of complaints received.

There also appears to be one mod on AH that just goes BAN! As soon as someone says something remotely 'unpopular' when it comes to sexuality/gender issues rather than just issue a warning to moderate ones approach to a point.

biko

"Hate speech" seems to be comments that aggravate others, and might be illegal or contravenes the site rules.

OP, is there inconsistency all over the site, or just a particular forum?

Captain Obvious

biko wrote: »

"Hate speech" seems to be comments that aggravate others, and might be illegal or contravenes the site rules.

OP, is there inconsistency all over the site, or just a particular forum?

I don't post so much out of AH so that's where I've seen it. Also noticed it browsing the DRP a couple of times.

Captain Obvious

Seems quite a few posters have late have abandoned the pretence of unpopular opinion and gone straight up hate speech.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Seems quite a few posters have late have abandoned the pretence of unpopular opinion and gone straight up hate speech.

Or maybe it's that "hate speech" is now defined as "anything that contradicts my progressive agenda"?

I'm not seeing the neo-Nazis and KKK out in force on Boards.ie. There's very little, if any, actual hate speech. But there are more and more people shouting "hate speech!" in an effort to have certain threads/topics/posters shut down because they don't like what they're saying.

Captain Obvious

Blaze Warm Mouthwash wrote: »

Or maybe it's that "hate speech" is now defined as "anything that contradicts my progressive agenda"?

I'm not seeing the neo-Nazis and KKK out in force on Boards.ie. There's very little, if any, actual hate speech. But there are more and more people shouting "hate speech!" in an effort to have certain threads/topics/posters shut down because they don't like what they're saying.

There was one guy posting pics of Hitler with nazi slogans and another referred to "black animals".

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Captain Obvious wrote: »

There was one guy posting pics of Hitler with nazi slogans and another referred to "black animals".

That's two posters whom I'm sure were swiftly banned.

Above, you refer to "quite a few" posters engaging in hate speech. How many is "quite a few"? 2? 10? 100? 500?

Potatoeman

I see the backpacks in Morocco thread just disappeared after being locked. It would be a good idea to state why it was closed and deleted and who made the decision on it. Seems like some threads just vanish.

Beasty

Potatoeman wrote: »

I see the backpacks in Morocco thread just disappeared after being locked. It would be a good idea to state why it was closed and deleted and who made the decision on it. Seems like some threads just vanish.

As I understand it there were some legal issues and local mods were asked by the office to unapprove the thread (which means it's not currently visible). There will be someone in the office tomorrow when they will be going through the thread to consider what action may be required in light of potential legal ramifications

So in summary, the local mods did it under instruction from the Office

Beasty

I've just deleted a couple of posts. I've provided an explanation above. There is no need to continue discussing the reasons for the closure, and indeed doing so may result in further issues. I'm closing this thread, certainly for now