Fianna fail/Fianna Geal Confidence and supply deal

blanch152

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

This turns out not to be the case:

Facts make an interesting contribution to debates.

Do you have that table up to date?

James Brown

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

This turns out not to be the case:

I'm not sure what you're trying to show me.

Rents continue to hit all-time highs with 11.3% national rise - report
Rents have risen on average by more than 11% nationally in the 12 months from September last year, according to the latest report by property website Daft.ie.

The website's latest quarterly rental report says the rise represents the tenth consecutive quarter in which a new all-time high for rents has been set and also in which annual inflation in rents has been greater than 10%.

The figures are based on the asking price for rental properties.

Rents have increased countrywide by an average of 11.3% and Dublin is now 36% higher than it was in the last boom over ten years ago, according to the report.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1112/1010273-rents-nationwide/

We should be able to agree that there is a crisis. If you believe it's merely down to high demand verses low availability, in that people have the money but the homes aren't available, I'd have to disagree.
The reliance on the private market is the problem. I'm not going to go into it again and on here. It's going on so long now although repetition is warranted, it's the same problems, so there's nothing new to add.
As crises worsen, FF are happy to support FG and FG are happy to look after FF interests. That's the take away from this agreement.

markodaly

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We could go back to the 1930's. Less homeless children than today. That's some feat.

See, I think this is exactly the reason why you have little to no credibility here.

Taking one statistic, out of historical context and claiming that because X is worse now than in 1930 when Ireland really had it bad, means that Ireland is crap today and everything is wrong.

This does not take into account the actual poverty levels compared to 1930's Ireland to now. Chalk and cheese. My mother was alive in that time, and she will tell you stories of children in the parish being so hungry they resembled African kids you would see on TV they were so malnourished. (Ireland had a mini famine in the early 1920's that many people do not know about)

I also don't think that people in 1930's would classify living in a hotel as 'homeless' either, as children whose parents were not able to take care of them were taken away to live in Industrial schools and Orphanages. Does your child homeless statistics of 1930's Ireland take thousands of these kids into account? No, therefore your point is both factually incorrect and deliberately misleading.

Zubeneschamali

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're trying to show me.

In my rent chart, the colouredy lines go down from 2008 to 2011.


So when you said: If people can't afford rents, they don't come down, the tax payer takes a hit, you were what is technically known as wrong.

That is what I am showing you, and you helpfully posted two more charts showing the same thing.

FreudianSlippers

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That is what I am showing you, and you helpfully posted two more charts showing the same thing.

What I'm not sure they noticed either is that they posted mortgage levels and not rent levels.

Spoiler alert: the rent charts show a steeper and deeper decline.

James Brown

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

In my rent chart, the colouredy lines go down from 2008 to 2011.


So when you said: If people can't afford rents, they don't come down, the tax payer takes a hit, you were what is technically known as wrong.

That is what I am showing you, and you helpfully posted two more charts showing the same thing.

What part of Rents continue to hit all-time highs with 11.3% national rise confuses you?

Was wrong at one point, may be again hopefully. Even on your own graph after a dip they begin to rise.
Your graph is practically from another era. A lot has happened since 2011 and the trend has reversed over the years.
You know all the charts are on the up, including your 8 year old one?
If you truly believe rental costs and house pricing isn't an issue currently, I can't help you.

EDIT: Was not true at one point in time and hopefully will not be the case again. I'm commenting on the current crisis not the last throws of the Celtic Tiger or when FG party of choice FF 'practically had us eating out of bins'. People not being able to afford rents, as is currently the case, as we see rents rise. With the tax payer shelling out rental aid and hotels. While some let themselves get distracted by individual cases playing a system in a time created and exacerbated by this confidence and supply FF/FG government.

FYI: I have Blanch and slippers on ignore for some time. I can see there's a flurry of replies, no doubt reasoned and unbiased, alas hidden.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Was wrong likely at one point, may be again hopefully. Even on your own graph after a dip they begin to rise.
Your graph is practically from another era. A lot has happened since 2011 and the trend has reversed over the years.
If you truly believe rental costs and house pricing isn't an issue currently, I can't help you.

I really don't understand your post. You made a claim that is not dependent on any point in time, but is either true at all times or is not true. Either a line is straight or it is not.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's how it should work, but it's not the reality. If people can't afford rents, they don't come down, the tax payer takes a hit.

A graph was produced to show that you were wrong. Trying to argue that you were only wrong at one point is nonsensical. The data clearly shows that your conclusion that rents don't come down is fundamentally wrong.

FreudianSlippers

Matt Barrett wrote: »

What part of Rents continue to hit all-time highs with 11.3% national rise confuses you?

Was wrong at one point, may be again hopefully. Even on your own graph after a dip they begin to rise.
Your graph is practically from another era. A lot has happened since 2011 and the trend has reversed over the years.
You know all the charts are on the up, including your 8 year old one?
If you truly believe rental costs and house pricing isn't an issue currently, I can't help you.

Aside from this being just a massive shift of the goalposts, it doesn't even start to make any sense.

Even if you look at the Daft 2018 Q3 rent report, one can see that this is a supply-side issue. Look that the correlation between that chart and the ones on pages 18, 20, 22 and 24 and tell me if you see anything interesting?

I honestly, haven't a notion what "If people can't afford rents, they don't come down, the tax payer takes a hit" actually means, but the data (I hate that you refer to graphs as though they're some form of sentient being) "from another era" are extremely important in understanding the root of the issue (and how to fix it) with the added bonus of dismantling your point.

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Aside from this being just a massive shift of the goalposts, it doesn't even start to make any sense.

Even if you look at the Daft 2018 Q3 rent report, one can see that this is a supply-side issue. Look that the correlation between that chart and the ones on pages 18, 20, 22 and 24 and tell me if you see anything interesting?

I honestly, haven't a notion what "If people can't afford rents, they don't come down, the tax payer takes a hit" actually means, but the data (I hate that you refer to graphs as though they're some form of sentient being) "from another era" are extremely important in understanding the root of the issue (and how to fix it) with the added bonus of dismantling your point.

By "that chart" I meant to say the one on page 6 btw.

Good loser

Matt Barrett wrote: »

What part of Rents continue to hit all-time highs with 11.3% national rise confuses you?

Was wrong at one point, may be again hopefully. Even on your own graph after a dip they begin to rise.
Your graph is practically from another era. A lot has happened since 2011 and the trend has reversed over the years.
You know all the charts are on the up, including your 8 year old one?
If you truly believe rental costs and house pricing isn't an issue currently, I can't help you.

EDIT: Was not true at one point in time and hopefully will not be the case again. I'm commenting on the current crisis not the last throws of the Celtic Tiger or when FG party of choice FF 'practically had us eating out of bins'. People not being able to afford rents, as is currently the case, as we see rents rise. With the tax payer shelling out rental aid and hotels. While some let themselves get distracted by individual cases playing a system in a time created and exacerbated by this confidence and supply FF/FG government.

FYI: I have Blanch and slippers on ignore for some time. I can see there's a flurry of replies, no doubt reasoned and unbiased, alas hidden.

Cringe inducing garbage.


You have some effrontery posting on this topic.

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

Play the ball not the man