Lost money over bank fraud. Is there any protection for this?

Fake Tales

Approx. 3k was taken from my KBC account over the weekend, I just got back paid last week and had house mates rent money in my account as I pay the landlord. I actually logged in to move some money and notced I was almost cleared out.

Spoke to KBC and they haven't been very helpful. I have my card and it was never out of my possession. The money was taken by purchasing some sort of Post Office top up a number of times.

Mastercard called KBC on Friday to report the activity, KBC texted me Saturday morning... my phone went stopped working for two days unfortunately. They never sent an email but did send me a letter apparently!

Because they didn't here from me, they didn't cancel the card even though then knew it was compromised. They are trying to shift the blame onto me for not responding.

Currently I'm down 3k, that is yet to clear and has up to 10 days to do so. Then I have to submit fraud claims and hope I get it back. Meanwhile I need to figure out how I can make rent, not just for me but housemates. Luckily I think I can make it work but I'm sure many couldn't.

I'm trying to understand what / if any rights I might have? Basically I'm 3k out of pocket for at best a few weeks because of security failures somewhere else. The fraud is not me reporting something the needs to be investigated. It was something they were aware of (after the first transaction anyway) but chose to risk it by not cancelling or putting some hold on the card. Why should I be out of pocket?

Sure they claim the tried to contact me and its extremely bad timing with my phone but I don't feel they exhausted every avenue by not emailing.

Jim2007

Fake Tales wrote: »

Mastercard called KBC on Friday to report the activity, KBC texted me Saturday morning... my phone went stopped working for two days unfortunately. They never sent an email but did send me a letter apparently!

Well first of all they did not know the card was compromised, that was the whole point of send you the SMS and eventually having to send you a snail mail because you were out of contact. The fact that your phone was off and you were unreachable is not their fault. You are not blameless, so go easy on the acquisitions with them and you will probable find they will be more forthcoming.

That said I would expect that after a full investigation and assuming that nothing turns up, you will receive a repayment in full. In deed, depending on how civil you have been with them up to now, you might have been able to ask them for a temporary credit while they investigate.

Be aware though that the fact you went AWOL while the suspicious activity was in progress, may well raise questions in the investigator's mind as to your culpability in the affair and so it may take some time for the investigation to conclude.

Mellor

Lost money over bank fraud. Is there any protection for this?

maybe you've jsut phrase it bacly, but I don't see how this is bank fraud.
The person committing fraud was who ever took the money.

Basically I'm 3k out of pocket for at best a few weeks because of security failures somewhere else.

Well it doesn't sound like you know where the security failure is. You card could have been compromised due to something you did. Or not.
I'd focus on getting your money back rather than blaming the bank.

Fake Tales

Sorry not bank fraud but fraud.

The out of contact piece is killing me, basically I lost signal Friday night. Was on to Three a few times over the weekend on it and finally went into the store at the yesterday. Turns out my sim card had burned out. When I had called they were saying that it was probably a tower out. I never even knew about sim burn so the timing is crazy unfortunate.

When I called KBC to flag the transactions they told me they were already aware of the fraud as MasterCard had been in contact. The first person basically said we did our but sending a text so we are covered.

I spoke to a supervisor who then gave me a more balanced response. I did ask about a credit but that's not available.

Anytime anything has happened in the past my card has been put on hold until thingbcan be verified. This seems the opposite approach.

If I don't get the money back it seems crazy that anyone can have their account drained at anytime and that's that. You get one chance to answer what is one of the most important calls of your life and then it's on you.

Luckily I spotted it straight away I imagine a older persons not using online banking could have taken a few days or weeks.

coylemj

How do KBC explain that someone was allowed to make retail purchases and have them debited to your account if they were not in possession of the card?

Thoie

Fake Tales wrote: »

Sorry not bank fraud but fraud.

The out of contact piece is killing me, basically I lost signal Friday night. Was on to Three a few times over the weekend on it and finally went into the store at the yesterday. Turns out my sim card had burned out. When I had called they were saying that it was probably a tower out. I never even knew about sim burn so the timing is crazy unfortunate.

Get something in writing from 3 confirming that you contacted them a few times over the weekend, and that the store fixed an issue yesterday, meaning that you weren't able to receive messages during that time - it may be vital later on.

MarkR

You could have been dead, or in hospital, or whatever. Trying to push it back onto you is a bit much. I assume it would take more time, but it should not be a requirement, relying on another service, that you be able to leap into action on receipt of a text message.

If the message had been received and ignored, that would be on you to a degree. As above, get confirmation from three about the sim issue.

OP, have you seen the Ask KBC section of boards?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1628

Jim2007

Thoie wrote: »

Get something in writing from 3 confirming that you contacted them a few times over the weekend, and that the store fixed an issue yesterday, meaning that you weren't able to receive messages during that time - it may be vital later on.

Agreed. Like I said before, being AWOL during the time period will certainly be raised as a red flag to the investigator (used to work in this area moons ago). So a good explanation upfront might make it go faster.

Jim2007

Fake Tales wrote: »

If I don't get the money back it seems crazy that anyone can have their account drained at anytime and that's that. You get one chance to answer what is one of the most important calls of your life and then it's on you.

Oh I fully expect you'll get your money back but it may take some time. I also expect there was more than on attempt to contact you, so the advice given by another poster to get something documented from the phone company and submit it is very good advice to follow up on.

vectorvictor

Thoie wrote: »

Get something in writing from 3 confirming that you contacted them a few times over the weekend, and that the store fixed an issue yesterday, meaning that you weren't able to receive messages during that time - it may be vital later on.

Agree here.

The way you've presented this and the "burnt out sim", well if I was the bank this would be going straight into the dodgy pile so you'll need backup.

They will also have a delivery time stamp for the verification SMS

Afaik An Post only permit chip and pin

realitykeeper

Fake Tales wrote: »

Approx. 3k was taken from my KBC account over the weekend, I just got back paid last week and had house mates rent money in my account as I pay the landlord. I actually logged in to move some money and notced I was almost cleared out.

Spoke to KBC and they haven't been very helpful. I have my card and it was never out of my possession. The money was taken by purchasing some sort of Post Office top up a number of times.

Mastercard called KBC on Friday to report the activity, KBC texted me Saturday morning... my phone went stopped working for two days unfortunately. They never sent an email but did send me a letter apparently!

Because they didn't here from me, they didn't cancel the card even though then knew it was compromised. They are trying to shift the blame onto me for not responding.

Currently I'm down 3k, that is yet to clear and has up to 10 days to do so. Then I have to submit fraud claims and hope I get it back. Meanwhile I need to figure out how I can make rent, not just for me but housemates. Luckily I think I can make it work but I'm sure many couldn't.

I'm trying to understand what / if any rights I might have? Basically I'm 3k out of pocket for at best a few weeks because of security failures somewhere else. The fraud is not me reporting something the needs to be investigated. It was something they were aware of (after the first transaction anyway) but chose to risk it by not cancelling or putting some hold on the card. Why should I be out of pocket?

Sure they claim the tried to contact me and its extremely bad timing with my phone but I don't feel they exhausted every avenue by not emailing.

Your priorities are completely wrong. Thinking about compensation should be the last thing on your mind. The fact that you are even thinking about getting compensation when someone is trying to steal from you is suspect if you don`t mind me saying. KBC are your best friend right now, accusing them of fraud when you need them to stop a third party stealing from you is unwise to say the least. You need to be careful when using credit cards, it is unlikely the security breech came from KBC or Mastercard.

realitykeeper

Thoie wrote: »

Get something in writing from 3 confirming that you contacted them a few times over the weekend, and that the store fixed an issue yesterday, meaning that you weren't able to receive messages during that time - it may be vital later on.

Only do this if that is what happened, otherwise it would be dishonest.

daheff

ok.

First thing to do is get yourself off the local Garda station and report the fraud.
Get a Pulse number from them. Show the Garda you still have the card in question. Most likely your card was skimmed somewhere.


Once you have this, call KBC and advise them that you have reported the fraud. I guarantee you their attitude will change. You'll probably have your money back in a couple of days after this.


Think of it from their side. Any chancer can blow a load of money, ring in and say their account was compromised...please give me back my money etc etc. Extremely unlikely a chancer would go to the Gardai and make a false statement too.

lawred2

Fake Tales wrote: »

Approx. 3k was taken from my KBC account over the weekend, I just got back paid last week and had house mates rent money in my account as I pay the landlord. I actually logged in to move some money and notced I was almost cleared out.

Spoke to KBC and they haven't been very helpful. I have my card and it was never out of my possession. The money was taken by purchasing some sort of Post Office top up a number of times.

Mastercard called KBC on Friday to report the activity, KBC texted me Saturday morning... my phone went stopped working for two days unfortunately. They never sent an email but did send me a letter apparently!

Because they didn't here from me, they didn't cancel the card even though then knew it was compromised. They are trying to shift the blame onto me for not responding.

Currently I'm down 3k, that is yet to clear and has up to 10 days to do so. Then I have to submit fraud claims and hope I get it back. Meanwhile I need to figure out how I can make rent, not just for me but housemates. Luckily I think I can make it work but I'm sure many couldn't.

I'm trying to understand what / if any rights I might have? Basically I'm 3k out of pocket for at best a few weeks because of security failures somewhere else. The fraud is not me reporting something the needs to be investigated. It was something they were aware of (after the first transaction anyway) but chose to risk it by not cancelling or putting some hold on the card. Why should I be out of pocket?

Sure they claim the tried to contact me and its extremely bad timing with my phone but I don't feel they exhausted every avenue by not emailing.

well wasn't that unlucky timing

I'd say you'll need to provide proof of that from your mobile operator..

What's a post office topup?

troyzer

daheff wrote: »

ok.

First thing to do is get yourself off the local Garda station and report the fraud.
Get a Pulse number from them. Show the Garda you still have the card in question. Most likely your card was skimmed somewhere.


Once you have this, call KBC and advise them that you have reported the fraud. I guarantee you their attitude will change. You'll probably have your money back in a couple of days after this.


Think of it from their side. Any chancer can blow a load of money, ring in and say their account was compromised...please give me back my money etc etc. Extremely unlikely a chancer would go to the Gardai and make a false statement too.

This happened to me last year. There is an ATM outside of a spar next to where I used to work that had been tampered with at some point. Four or five people in my company used it despite being told not to. I had started after the last email had gone out and got skimmed.

My bank at the time was N26 though who have geoblocks on transactions so the first I heard of it was a phonecall telling me that someone had tried to withdraw €1,000 from an ATM in Jakarta. They cancelled my card and I had a new one in three days.

antix80

If they continued to allow transactions to be processed after sending you the text it sounds fairly negligent.
But it's your decision to have a bank card and no doubt you agreed to their terms and conditions for dispute resolution, charge backs, etc. It looks like you're going to be out of pocket for a few weeks but hopefully you get your money back after the bank have investigated and possibly recovered the funds from the retailer.

troyzer

antix80 wrote: »

If they continued to allow transactions to be processed after sending you the text it sounds fairly negligent.
But it's your decision to have a bank card and no doubt you agreed to their terms and conditions for dispute resolution, charge backs, etc. It looks like you're going to be out of pocket for a few weeks but hopefully you get your money back after the bank have investigated and possibly recovered the funds from the retailer.

I agree. Very strange that they'd flag transactions as suspicious and then continue to allow them after not being able to contact the card holder.

Banks should always err on the side of caution. Worst case scenario, the OP finds a way to ring them and ask why their card payments are declining.

martyoo

I was always under the impression that if you didn't reply to those texts that the transactions were cancelled.

Fake Tales

Thanks for response. I have emails from Thee yesterday about my new sim set up. I also have the old sim card. I will try and contact them re. getting records of my text chat and voice chat with them.

I didn't receive any texts when I reactivated, I must check for voicemail but no notifications if voicemail.

I too taught cancelling is what they would do especially as it was multiples of the same transaction.

I'll get to a Garda station tonight. That's good advice and makes sense. While I'm hoping KBC help me I want to do my due diligence. I've been robbed so should report it.

Someone mentioned compensation. I'm not looking for any. What I'm looking for is if there is any legislation that protects me in this situation. Rights would go above there T&C's. For example do they need to investigate in a certain time frame.

Fake Tales

Update:

KBC called me today. Turns out that my phone not working was part of the scam.

The purchases required verification by phone / text so those that got my card details somehow got my phone number then contacted Three to request the number be transferred to their sim (claiming to be me). This is the most likely anyway. Need to contact Three now to find out why that was allowed but I don’t think they operate with the same security processes as banks. Crazy how easy it was to take control of someone’s number.

I did continue to get WhatsApp messages when on WiFi. I guess that’s more linked to the phone than number?

seamie78

whats app is web based and doesn't use your phones network

Henry Ford III

Fake Tales eh?

SnipSnop

Fake Tales wrote: »

Update:

KBC called me today. Turns out that my phone not working was part of the scam.

The purchases required verification by phone / text so those that got my card details somehow got my phone number then contacted Three to request the number be transferred to their sim (claiming to be me). This is the most likely anyway. Need to contact Three now to find out why that was allowed but I don’t think they operate with the same security processes as banks. Crazy how easy it was to take control of someone’s number.

I did continue to get WhatsApp messages when on WiFi. I guess that’s more linked to the phone than number?

Number porting scam . Seems the feckers have caught on to it over here as well.

Change passwords everywhere while you are at it. And I mean everywhere. If you have used two-factor authentication for the likes of email etc then they probably have access or changed your details there as well.