SkyQ setup for home automation et al.

Soarer

Morning guys.

I started a thread in the broadband forum here, but haven't had much joy.
To save people clicking, my first post was....

Soarer wrote: »

Afternoon guys.

Currently I have a FTTC connection, and have an Eir F2000 sitting behind the tv in the living room at the front of the house.
Hardwired to it are the tv, the SkyQ box, and the Xbox (via homeplug to the playroom).
I also have a Sky mini box (also doubles as a wifi booster) in the next room back (family room).
I have oodles of devices connected wirelessly. The furthest away of these is the laptop, which resides in the dining room (next room back again).
When I bring the laptop into the living room, I get download speeds of ~90mps.
When I'm out in the dining room, that drops to about 10.

My new SkyQ hub (only 2 ethernet ports!) arrived this morning, and my service is due to be switched over on Friday.
I also have a new Netgear R7800 (thanks bk!) arriving tomorrow.

So what do you reckon is the best way to hook everything up?

1. Maintain the Xbox via homeplug (port 1), use a second homeplug (port 2) to connect to the minibox, boost the signal from the family room, and ignore the R7800? This would involve connecting the tv and SkyQ box via wifi, but seeing as they're next to the hub, I can imagine there being too much of a drop in performance?

2. Connect the R7800 to the hub behind the tv, and hope it'll boost the signal sufficiently to the dining room?

3. Put the R7800 out in the family room by the minibox, connect it to the hub via homeplug, and use it to boost everything from there?

4. Any other suggestions?

P.S. I know, ideally, the hub wouldn't be behind the tv. But it is, and can be moved.

To be fair, ED E replied with the following, but the trail has gone dead since.

ED E wrote: »

Sky Hub at the MDP (socket), R7800 via homeplug in an AP setup. Disable wireless repeating function on the Q mini.

Now that I'm ready to knuckle down, I posted the following yesterday, but to no avail....

Soarer wrote: »

Morning all.

Was away all weekend so didn't get any chance to fiddle.
Anyways, even though everything seems pretty good at the minute, I'd probably be future-proofing myself if I got the R7800 up and running.
So for 2no. ethernet connections from the modem behind the telly, I've two options...
1 - One powerline to the R7800 out in the back room, and powerline to the Xbox.
2 - One powerline to the R7800 out in the back room, leave the second socket spare, and powerline from the R7800 to the Xbox.
Maybe for speed, the direct route? But traffic management, through the R7800?

As for incorporating the R7800 into the system with the SkyQ Hub, I found this while Googling.

"When setting up, connect the laptop via LAN cable to each router independently. This is the easiest way to do this, as there might be conflicts in IP addresses if they're both connected at the same time.
Just make sure that both routers are setup using the same IP range and they are on the same subnet mask.
I have router A (connected to the phoneline) as 192.168.0.1, and router B set as 192.168.0.2.
Turn off DHCP on router B.
On router A, disable Wifi and set the DHCP start range to 192.168.0.3.
Connect them together physically with a LAN cable, or if you're going to have them in seperate rooms, then use powerline adapters and LAN cables to connect them".

I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to this stuff, so I'd appreciate any info as to whether the above is all that is required.

So can anyone enlighten me as to what to do, or where to start?

bk

A complex situation. I think you will need to do some experimentation and testing to figure out what works best.

First you should do a speed test on the homeplugs. If you can attach a computer to the ends of the two homeplugs and test the speed between them, to see how they perform. After all if you only get 100mb/s or less from the homeplugs, then that we be the max speed that the R7800 can deliver if connected to the end of them.

Then I'd try putting the R7800 connected directly to the F2000 behind the TV and try a speedtest on the laptop in both the TV room and the furthest dining room. You may well find it boasts the speed in the dining room and that you don't need the homeplug. This would be the simplest approach in terms of keep it simple.

You could then also try Ed E's approach, put the R7800 in the dining room on the homeplug and test it there and see what speed you get. You are going to be limited to the speed of the homeplug here and it will be a bit of a more complicated setup.

I assume you can't run ethernet from the MDP to a more central location? Ethernet would be preferable to homeplugs.

Soarer

Cheers BK.

bk wrote: »

A complex situation. I think you will need to do some experimentation and testing to figure out what works best.

First you should do a speed test on the homeplugs. If you can attach a computer to the ends of the two homeplugs and test the speed between them, to see how they perform. After all if you only get 100mb/s or less from the homeplugs, then that we be the max speed that the R7800 can deliver if connected to the end of them.

Good thinking! Will give that a try.

According to Eir, my line coming to the house is capable of "up to 90mb". So the homeplugs, and consequently the R7800, probably won't be showing over that.
Last night whilst in bed (bedroom directly over living room that has the Sky Hub), I did a speed test on the phone, and got 84mb download over the wifi. So that's not too bad.
Wondering if I'm drawing trouble on myself to get to a max. of 90mb?

bk wrote: »

Then I'd try putting the R7800 connected directly to the F2000 behind the TV and try a speedtest on the laptop in both the TV room and the furthest dining room. You may well find it boasts the speed in the dining room and that you don't need the homeplug. This would be the simplest approach in terms of keep it simple.

You could then also try Ed E's approach, put the R7800 in the dining room on the homeplug and test it there and see what speed you get. You are going to be limited to the speed of the homeplug here and it will be a bit of a more complicated setup.

This is where my confuddlement comes in.

The F2000 is in the bin, and has been replaced by the SkyQ Hub. I'm assuming connecting the R7800 to the hub isn't as easy as running a cable between them?
It's been many moons since I did networking in college, and on the off chance it's not a "plug and play" situation, I Googled what to do and came across this...

"When setting up, connect the laptop via LAN cable to each router independently. This is the easiest way to do this, as there might be conflicts in IP addresses if they're both connected at the same time.
Just make sure that both routers are setup using the same IP range and they are on the same subnet mask.
I have router A (connected to the phoneline) as 192.168.0.1, and router B set as 192.168.0.2.
Turn off DHCP on router B.
On router A, disable Wifi and set the DHCP start range to 192.168.0.3.
Connect them together physically with a LAN cable, or if you're going to have them in seperate rooms, then use powerline adapters and LAN cables to connect them".

Does that make sense? I'd be able for that!

bk wrote: »

I assume you can't run ethernet from the MDP to a more central location? Ethernet would be preferable to homeplugs.

That's definitely not a runner, unfortunately.

bk

Ah right, Sky Q definitely complicates things.

First of, if you do a speed test on the web, it will always only ever show 90mb/s if that is the maximum speed of your broadband. Your router may well be giving you a much higher speed then that, but only between devices on the same network.

For instance, my R7800 actually gives me 500mb/s when doing a speed test with special software between my Macbook Pro and a Mac mini on the same network. But those online speed tests only show it as 240mb/s as that is what my broadband speed out to the internet is.

I suspect you main goal is just to get 90mb/s everywhere in your home, including the dining room.

First off, have you tried doing these speed tests with just the Sky Q hub, maybe you don't need the R7800 if the sky Q gives you 90mb/s everywhere and if all your devices connect to it?

Then you can test out the R7800 by putting it in AP mode and connecting it directly to the Sky Q Hub and turning off wireless repeating on the Sky Q box. Putting the R7800 into AP mode is pretty straightforward, here is a guide:
https://kb.netgear.com/20927/How-do-I-change-my-NETGEAR-router-to-AP-mode-after-I-ve-already-run-setup

The downside is that you lose some of the more advanced features on the R7800.

You can then test the speeds from the R7800 in Tv room and dining room and then you could also try putting the R7800 at the end of the homeplug and try it there again.

Another different option, is turn of the wifi and DHCP completely off on the Sky Q box and use the R7800 as the router with everything attached to it.

For your Sky Mini box, you would then use your homeplugs to connect by ethernet the Sky Mini box to the Sky Q hub.

This has the advantage of you getting the full features of the R7800.

But you would need to try the different options and see which works best for you.

Soarer

Right, quick tests.

Firstly I've no way of checking the speed of the Powerlines only by using Ookla. But seeing as they're Devolo 1200+ Powerlines, I don't think they're gonna be my problem.

Also, my laptop is fairly slow. Don't know if it's possible to upgrade the network card?

Speeds were checked using Strencom server in Cork.

OVER WIFI (using the SkyQ Hub and minibox as a booster, no powerline)

Back Room (where the laptop is gonna be all the time)
Download: 29.01
Upload: 16.66

Family Room (Where the minibox is)
Download: 11.55
Upload: 16.46

Living Room (Next to the SkyQ Hub)
Download: 28.43
Upload: 16.27

USING POWERLINE (connected to SkyQ hub behind the telly)

Back Room
Download: 10.71
Upload: 16.93

Family Room
Download: 7.09
Upload: 17.05

Living Room
Download: 14.56
Upload: 17.10

Don't really know what to make of those results.
For pigiron, in the living room, I changed the powerline cable to the hub to the Denovo supplied one, and the results didn't change.
I also let speedtest.net pick the server for me, which was Virgin in Dublin, and the results were...

Powerline
Download: 19.82
Upload: 16.85


Wifi
Download: 33.54
Upload: 15.92

Looking at those results, the Powerlines aren't really helping.

bk

Also, my laptop is fairly slow. Don't know if it's possible to upgrade the network card?

What is the make and model of your laptop? To check what the specs of your wifi and ethernet are.

But seeing as they're Devolo 1200+ Powerlines, I don't think they're gonna be my problem.

Powerline is a very variable technology, it very much depends on your wiring, it often isn't fast.

Also I think Sky Q can act as powerline devices too, they might be interfering with you Devolo's, check out this guide on how to disable the Sky Q powerline, which may help improve the speed:

https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Q/Existing-Powerline-setup-and-Sky-Q/td-p/2720725

Next, I'd try the R7800 in simple AP mode connected to the Sky Q hub and see what speed you get in the various locations.

Oh before doing that, can you connect you laptop to the Sky Q hub by ethernet and see what speed you are getting? You need to get a baseline for what speed your broadband is running at. If it is only running at 30mb/s or so, then obviously that will cap any online speed testing you are doing.

So to recap, do the following in this order:
1) Connect your laptop to the Sky Q hub using ethernet and do a speed test
2) Try the R7800 as an AP on the Sky Q hub, see what speeds you get
3) After that, you could look into improving the performance of the devolo, if possible.

Soarer

Cheers bk.

bk wrote: »

What is the make and model of your laptop? To check what the specs of your wifi and ethernet are.

It's an Asus N56VM.

bk wrote: »

Powerline is a very variable technology, it very much depends on your wiring, it often isn't fast.

Obviously I don't know about my wiring. The house is fairly new though (2011), so I'd like to think the wiring is decent enough.

bk wrote: »

Also I think Sky Q can act as powerline devices too, they might be interfering with you Devolo's, check out this guide on how to disable the Sky Q powerline, which may help improve the speed:

https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Q/Existing-Powerline-setup-and-Sky-Q/td-p/2720725

Had seen that previously. Searched for the option, but couldn't find it. After more Googling, it seems Sky removed the powerline option in a subsequent update.

bk wrote: »

Oh before doing that, can you connect you laptop to the Sky Q hub by ethernet and see what speed you are getting? You need to get a baseline for what speed your broadband is running at. If it is only running at 30mb/s or so, then obviously that will cap any online speed testing you are doing.

Thought of that, and was gonna do it, but was too tired last night! Will definitely do it this evening.

As an aside, I got ~85mbps upstairs on my iPhone 6S the previous night. But maybe that's using the 5GHz network? Haven't a clue about that either!

bk wrote: »

Next, I'd try the R7800 in simple AP mode connected to the Sky Q hub and see what speed you get in the various locations.

Will definitely need someone to hold my hand for that! Haven't a bulls where to start.

bk wrote: »

So to recap, do the following in this order:
1) Connect your laptop to the Sky Q hub using ethernet and do a speed test
2) Try the R7800 as an AP on the Sky Q hub, see what speeds you get
3) After that, you could look into improving the performance of the devolo, if possible.

Yes sir!

bk

Asus N56VM, so that has gigabit ethernet, that is good, you'll be able to get close to full speed out of that using ethernet.

Unfortunately, the wifi is poor, only 802.11n and only 2.4GHz, you might not see more then 50mb/s out of it and those 30mb/s ish speed tests might be the limit of its performance with any router.

It sounds like the iPhone is actually giving you a better indication of the speed you are getting from your broadband and wifi.

I think you may need to step back and think about what you want to achieve overall. Do you plan on updating your laptop in the near future? If not and if all your other Home Automation devices connect ok to your Sky Q hub, then the R7800 might be overkill and unnecessary for you. It won't be able to help with your laptop much if your laptop is limited by it's wifi client.

Sorry about that.

Soarer

Was thinking the same.

The laptop is the weak link, and it's the thing that I use the most. I don't plan on updating it anytime soon. If I was to change, I'd probably go to desktop.
Everything else seems to be working perfectly on the current network.
Thinking out loud, I wonder would a powerline between the hub and the minibox increase the speed?
I also wonder if I'd be as well off selling on/sending back the R7800, buy another Sky minibox, and put that upstairs to boost the signal even further. Doesn't cost anything more on the multiroom subscription and there'd be no integration issues.

Finally, would something like this or this speed up the laptop by giving it access to the 5GHz network?

bk

Soarer wrote: »

Thinking out loud, I wonder would a powerline between the hub and the minibox increase the speed?

You could try, but as far as I remember, the miniboxes have to operate over wifi for the wifi mesh to work.

Soarer wrote: »

I also wonder if I'd be as well off selling on/sending back the R7800, buy another Sky minibox, and put that upstairs to boost the signal even further. Doesn't cost anything more on the multiroom subscription and there'd be no integration issues.

I could be wrong, I don't have Sky Q, but I thought you needed an extra multiroom sub for a second Sky Q mini box.

Soarer wrote: »

Finally, would something like this or this speed up the laptop by giving it access to the 5GHz network?

For that price could be well worth a try, but no guarantees. The first one on Amazon seems to be USB 2 only. I'd get a USB 3 one, shouldn't be much price difference.

BTW If you do want to return the R7800, then amazon are usually good in taking returns in the first 30 days, also there were folks over on the Bargain Alerts forum who missed out on the sale who would probably be interested in it too.

Soarer

bk wrote: »

You could try, but as far as I remember, the miniboxes have to operate over wifi for the wifi mesh to work.

Yeah, thought as much. Just looking for a job for the powerlines that I bought that I probably don't have use for now!

bk wrote: »

I could be wrong, I don't have Sky Q, but I thought you needed an extra multiroom sub for a second Sky Q mini box.

No. AFAIK, the multiroom sub covers up to 4(?) miniboxes.

bk wrote: »

For that price could be well worth a try, but no guarantees. The first one on Amazon seems to be USB 2 only. I'd get a USB 3 one, shouldn't be much price difference.

Picked up one of these in Argos yesterday. Haven't tried it yet, but Argos are handy for returns.

bk wrote: »

BTW If you do want to return the R7800, then amazon are usually good in taking returns in the first 30 days, also there were folks over on the Bargain Alerts forum who missed out on the sale who would probably be interested in it too.

Yeah, was thinking of offering it for cost to people that missed out on it the other day. I haven't even taken it out of the box!

bk

Soarer wrote: »

Picked up one of these in Argos yesterday. Haven't tried it yet, but Argos are handy for returns.

Probably not a big deal, USB 2.0 should offer enough bandwidth to satisfy how much you will likely get out of wifi anyway. USB 2.0 is 480Mb/s while you are unlikely to see more then 200Mb/s over wifi.

Soarer

bk wrote: »

Probably not a big deal, USB 2.0 should offer enough bandwidth to satisfy how much you will likely get out of wifi anyway. USB 2.0 is 480Mb/s while you are unlikely to see more then 200Mb/s over wifi.

She's actually USB 3.0, even though the description doesn't mention it.

Soarer

To follow up on the powerline speeds from the other night....

Plugged the laptop direct to the modem, and got 85.85mbps. So my "up to 90mb" is fairly accurate.

Plugged the powerline into the Xbox (in the room across the hall), and got 6.66mbps.
Disconnected the powerline and connected the Xbox via wifi, and got 24.58mbps!

Really can't understand how the powerlines are slowing things down so much. And they weren't cheap either!

eddiem74

Soarer wrote: »

To follow up on the powerline speeds from the other night....

Plugged the laptop direct to the modem, and got 85.85mbps. So my "up to 90mb" is fairly accurate.

Plugged the powerline into the Xbox (in the room across the hall), and got 6.66mbps.
Disconnected the powerline and connected the Xbox via wifi, and got 24.58mbps!

Really can't understand how the powerlines are slowing things down so much. And they weren't cheap either!

Try the powerline in some other sockets and see if the speed improves to rule out a problem with particular sockets.

I am no electrician but years ago I tried to extend our phone via electrical sockets and to my surprise it was only some random sockets that worked effectively, it wasn't a case of all sockets were equal, I assume down to how wiring was done.

Soarer

eddiem74 wrote: »

Try the powerline in some other sockets and see if the speed improves to rule out a problem with particular sockets.

I am no electrician but years ago I tried to extend our phone via electrical sockets and to my surprise it was only some random sockets that worked effectively, it wasn't a case of all sockets were equal, I assume down to how wiring was done.

Just to bookend this.

The little USB wifi adaptor I bought is giving me >80mbps on the 5GHz network in the backroom on the laptop, which is as good as I could expect.

Checked the Xbox using the Devolo powerlines, and it was giving me 7.5mbps.
Took eddie's advice above, and changed the socket behind the telly.
Over 3 tests, I got 82.4, 81.6, 81.8mbps! So the change of socket worked a treat!
So much so, I decided to check the old Eircom powerlines I had before the Devolos. They came in at ~60mbps, which os more than enough for the kid and online Fortnite!
So the Devolos are going back in the box to be returned to Amazon!
As is the R7800.
Gonna get a second Sky minibox for upstairs, and mesh the lot together.

Thanks for all the help.