Secondary schools

beardybrewer

Sorry but I have to vent somewhere and am at a loss. My son has been on the list for Enda's for 5 years, which means nothing. Being down the road means nothing. They say it's a name drawn from a hat type lottery. On their open night they had 800 visitors (whole families mind you but tons of interest). Of the approx 150 spaces there were 85 up for grabs. We got the rejection letter today and we're #200 on the waitlist.

Of course this affects where by daughter will go and I hate the thought of sending my kid on a bus to town when logically he should go to the school down the road.

I know I've seen these posts here and it's a terrible system that allows this. What I'm worried about now, based on our place on the waitlist, is that we won't get into St Mary's either. Does anyone know the class size at St Mary's? He's signed up for the bish and the jes too but what happens if there's an influx in a given year and you just get in nowhere? What do people do? Who do you talk to?

Terribly disappointing day and we're filled with dread he won't make his second choice or possibly anywhere at all. I thought we'd done all the right things but I guess it's just dumb luck where people go? No consideration to being green or traffic to have parents ferrying kids to schools across town because they can't go to the one nearby. It's so frustrating and disappointing and leaves us desperately trying to convince our son it wasn't his fault. God I hate this place sometimes.

Mrs OBumble

Don't stop here: vent to any TD who will listen about the lack of zoning.

Re whay happens if he gets in nowhere- you keep trying further and further afield.

'Tis madness. And very bad for the planet.

buzz11

beardybrewer wrote: »

They say it's a name drawn from a hat type lottery.

You may know all this already but a couple of years ago, in one of the schools you mentioned, there was a major problem with the selection process and fairness in dealing with the applications, the parents looked into it and turned out the system was flawed but it took an appeal to the Dept of Education to get the whole thing sorted out.

beardybrewer

I pulled this information from the DOE website today and thought I'd share it here.

School Boys Girls Total Induction Size Guesstimate Ratio Boys Guess
Einde 458 301 759 126 0.60342556 76
St. Marys 362 0 362 60 1 60
Jes 336 294 630 105 0.533333333 56
The Bish 756 0 756 126 1 126

Salerno 0 667 667 111 0 0
Dominican 0 613 613 102 0 0
Our Lady 0 324 324 54 0 0

Oranmore 400 406 806 134 0.496277916 66
Spiddal 111 84 195 32 0.569230769 18
Total 850 402


I didn't list vocational schools or Irish schools. Using the boy:girl ratio I estimate the places for boys across all secondary schools in Galway proper is just 318 spaces. Given the largest known wait list # we heard (237) at least 322 people applied to Endas (probably more) and using the .6 ratio that's nearly 200 boys at least vying for spots in Galway based on what I know from Endas alone. I'd love to know how many of those live within 5 miles of the school they applied for.

beardybrewer

buzz11 wrote: »

You may know all this already but a couple of years ago, in one of the schools you mentioned, there was a major problem with the selection process and fairness in dealing with the applications, the parents looked into it and turned out the system was flawed but it took an appeal to the Dept of Education to get the whole thing sorted out.

So I see you can file an appeal if the student is refused. It's seems ludicrous to put ourselves above the 199 kids in front of us on the waitlist. If I were to appeal would the hope be just to make such a nuisance of ourselves and hope that they wouldn't want to go to a hearing that they'd concede a place for him?

https://www.education.ie/en/Parents/Services/Appeal-against-Permanent-Exclusion-Suspension-or-Refusal-to-Enrol/

Mrs OBumble

beardybrewer wrote: »

I didn't list vocational schools or Irish schools.

At secondary level I don't think it's right to exclude the so called vocational school(s?).

It's no help for you, but Educate Together have just been granted patronage of a new secondary school to be opened on the east of the city. And Merlin are looking for an extension already, given how over subscribed they are.

joeKel73

beardybrewer wrote: »

Given the largest known wait list # we heard (237) at least 322 people applied to Endas (probably more) and using the .6 ratio that's nearly 200 boys at least vying for spots in Galway based on what I know from Endas alone.

Do mixed schools really have a target ratio of boys:girls to accept? Or are students selected regardless of gender and that happens to be the resulting ratio of who got in?

Why have you included Oranmore (Calasanctius?) But left out Galway Community College, Merlin College and say Claregalway?

For what it's worth the country schools and newer schools listed do have explicit catchment areas/catchment schools. (Claregalway, Merlin, Oranmore)

It is the older schools with a Catholic ethos that have legacy policies.

Parents in Annaghdown were giving out about Claregalway's policies last year.

The Bish gives preference to brothers of current pupils and sons of staff, then sons of past pupils etc.

Bullocks

The same thing happened us last year and he was disappointed not to get into Edna's but got into Mary's fine and he is happy out in there now. I don't think the waiting list is too bad for Mary's so it's worth calling them to suss it out.
I know it's the wrong side of town but another buddy went to Monageesha and his parents are delighted with the school but it suits them as they are working in mervue anyhow so transport isn't an issue.
We need more school places around knocnacarra definitely

WallyGUFC

Numbers in Mary's have really fallen since I left, I think there were over 500 there less than 10 years ago. What's the story there? 60 is a very small intake for all the room they have.

zell12

Bullocks wrote: »

..We need more school places around knocnacarra definitely

Coláiste na Coiribe has 550 students, ~100 enrollments pa

ronnie3585

Amazing to see the turn around in Enda’s. The place was a kip when I was a student there over 15 years ago.

How does the entry system work, is it a lotto or do they give preference to kids that have family in the school like the Jes used to do?

It, Colaiste na Coiribe and the Jes are the only mixed sex schools on that side of town.

GalwayGrrrrrl

St Mary’s is very easy to get a place in at the moment (we applied last year). If your son has good Irish Colaiste na Corribe have excellent exam results. The Jes is very hard to get into if you aren’t in the Jes primary or went there yourself.

eastie17

Yeah, same question what the heck happened Marys? I was a boarder there back in the day and there were over 600 students. 100 of them boarders. I presume the results mustn't be great if numbers are dropping? Every good school in the country seems to be bursting at the seams and Marys have loads of space.

eastie17

Sorry OP, I posted and didn't even attempt to address your question.
I presume you have studied the schools enrollment policy? I have 3 secondary going kids, none in Galway, in two different schools, girls and boys. The key to getting in was understanding the enrollment policy, both had feeder national schools they gave preference too, siblings and then if a parent went there were also things that got you up the list. Anything like that apply?
A straight lottery just seems daft

beardybrewer

My kids are going to St John which isn't a feeder for anywhere. He's our first going to secondary school and we had hoped both of them would end up in a mixed secondary. Choosing a new primary down the road with a good program was our mistake. However my wife didn't like how the Jes primary spit the sexes after age 8. She went to the Jes in Limerick but I don't suppose that will help us as we're Galway blow-ins and aren't too wise in the ways of pulling strings or greasing palms.

GalwayGrrrrrl

beardybrewer wrote: »

My kids are going to St John which isn't a feeder for anywhere. He's our first going to secondary school and we had hoped both of them would end up in a mixed secondary. Choosing a new primary down the road with a good program was our mistake. However my wife didn't like how the Jes primary spit the sexes after age 8. She went to the Jes in Limerick but I don't suppose that will help us as we're Galway blow-ins and aren't too wise in the ways of pulling strings or greasing palms.

The Jes primary in Galway don’t split the sexes at all.

?Cee?view

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

The Jes primary in Galway don’t split the sexes at all.

And never did ever since girls were admitted in the early 80s

xckjoo

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

St Mary’s is very easy to get a place in at the moment (we applied last year). If your son has good Irish Colaiste na Corribe have excellent exam results. The Jes is very hard to get into if you aren’t in the Jes primary or went there yourself.

Went through the secondary school admissions thing with my young lad a few years ago so hopefully I can offer some advice. Number one rule: don't listen to anything you hear from other parents regarding school admission practices. Seriously. They're like a gaggle of gossipy conspiracy nuts. Schools have these things down in black and white and won't deviate from them. They'd leave themselves open to all sorts of headaches and law suits.



Jes Primary is not actually a feeder school for the secondary. Most parents only find this out in 6th class and it can cause panic. I think they agree to take a certain number but it's far less than the numbers in a given year in the Primary. Think the criteria of preference is along the order of: sibling in school; Jesuit family member; family member went there; others I can't remember. It's not obvious from the outside though as a lot of the kids would have either siblings or family members as past pupils.



I'm not sure if your wife being a past pupil at a different Jesuit school is considered OP but it's worth asking. They're big into the "Jesuit Ethos" so it might be on the list. Again, I'd check with the school directly (if they ever answer the phone) and there's definitely no harm in putting their name down. I also wouldn't give up on Endas completely. You might get through on the second or third rounds when other kids decide to go elsewhere. Parents are blanket applying these days so the popular schools are always oversubscribed.



Feel free to PM me if you've anything specific OP. I'm a few years past that now but I'm happy to try and dig through the old memory archives if it'll help.


Edit: Jes admission policy.
Educate Together Secondary due to be open 2019

beardybrewer

Thanks for all the advice above.

I actually spoke with the principal of Enda's the other day. I'd say she was doing the rounds to a lot of disappointed folk. She said of the 144 spots that 97 were taken with brothers/sisters such that only 50 odd spaces went to the lottery which was the biggest year ever with more than 250 on the waitlist. Ours was such a high number she said we hadn't a hope and I just received back our deposit today.

Interestingly she said the only feeder school in Galway was St. Pats for The Bish. We mistakenly thought Scoil Einde was a feeder but I guess not. So at least we stopped beating ourselves up over the primary school we chose.

Her first suggestion was St Marys. A lot of people have a lot of negative things to say about St Marys. Perhaps it's that gaggle of gossipy conspiracy nuts as we hear a lot of crap about Endas too if you go back far enough. So we really don't know what to take seriously. Someone's experience from 15 years ago isn't that helpful. If anyone knows anyone going their currently we'd love to hear about their experiences.

Lastly she thought between the Jes, Bish, and St Mary's we'd get in somewhere this side of town but sure she's bound to say that. She agreed the system is crazy and I would think most people would agree more weight should be given towards students applying to their closest school in their community wherever you are. She said they used to but all that had been stripped away, I presume after whatever fallout they had a few years back. She said they had applications from Oranmore to as far away as Craughwell and those applicants get treated the same as local kids. It's just a stupid, unnecessary pain in the hole that would seemingly be easy to fix. Hmm, just summed up Ireland there.

gordongekko

beardybrewer wrote: »

Her first suggestion was St Marys. A lot of people have a lot of negative things to say about St Marys. Perhaps it's that gaggle of gossipy conspiracy nuts as we hear a lot of crap about Endas too if you go back far enough. So we really don't know what to take seriously. Someone's experience from 15 years ago isn't that helpful. If anyone knows anyone going their currently we'd love to hear about their experiences.

There isn't a school in the country that doesn't have people saying negative things about it.

Pistachio

Regarding Mary's, if your son is sporty or academically minded he would probably do well in Mary's. However, if he is average or below academically and not into his sports he most likely won't thrive there. At their open day I specifically asked if they used streaming as I think kids do much better when you have kids of varying abilities mixed together. The headmaster at the time told me catagorically that they did not use streaming, my son was put in a B class... Mary's still stream classes unless that has changed since 2015.

As previous posters said you will get positive and negative comments about all schools, I am just letting you know my experience/opinion.

xckjoo

Pistachio wrote: »

Regarding Mary's, if your son is sporty or academically minded he would probably do well in Mary's. However, if he is average or below academically and not into his sports he most likely won't thrive there. At their open day I specifically asked if they used streaming as I think kids do much better when you have kids of varying abilities mixed together. The headmaster at the time told me catagorically that they did not use streaming, my son was put in a B class... Mary's still stream classes unless that has changed since 2015.

As previous posters said you will get positive and negative comments about all schools, I am just letting you know my experience/opinion.

I don't think they can legally admit to streaming anymore but it seems like it's still done to some degree.

Moomintroll99

I wouldn't totally discount the new Educate Together school either - there's no decision made yet about location, it might end up being somewhere reasonable for the west of the city. It's meant to serve the whole city + Oranmore but much of the demand seems to be west/Moycullen etc. At the very least the number of kids coming from around the Knocknacarra & Newcastle ET schools would mean a bus to & from the west!

Or the fact there will be 180 places there from September might knock out some of the ET kids who've got places at Enda's but actually want to go to the ET school, & free it up for others.

zell12

A location for the construction of the school has not yet been chosen, though it will be somewhere within Oranmore or East Galway city.
Once that’s been done plans will have to be submitted and a contractor chosen before work can begin.
Despite this the school is scheduled to open in time for the next school year in September 2019.
https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/educate-together-awarded-patronage-of-new-galway-secondary-school/

Moomintroll99

The report from the department actually says nothing about the school being on one side or the other, just that it will be somewhere in the Galway City and Oranmore school planning areas, which together cover a huge area. The department doesn't see an east and a west side of the city, just a 'Galway City school planning area'.

See the map in their report: https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/Establishing-a-New-School/New-Post-Primary-Schools/2019/galway-oranmore-regional-solution-assessment-report.pdf

They talk about meeting the 'combined net requirement across the two school planning areas'. So who knows? Maybe not much help to the OP but if it really is up and running by next year - and they sent out an ad recruiting for a principal today - it will add a significant number of first year places on top of what is currently available.

Bullocks

beardybrewer wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice above.

I actually spoke with the principal of Enda's the other day. I'd say she was doing the rounds to a lot of disappointed folk. She said of the 144 spots that 97 were taken with brothers/sisters such that only 50 odd spaces went to the lottery which was the biggest year ever with more than 250 on the waitlist. Ours was such a high number she said we hadn't a hope and I just received back our deposit today.

Interestingly she said the only feeder school in Galway was St. Pats for The Bish. We mistakenly thought Scoil Einde was a feeder but I guess not. So at least we stopped beating ourselves up over the primary school we chose.

Her first suggestion was St Marys. A lot of people have a lot of negative things to say about St Marys. Perhaps it's that gaggle of gossipy conspiracy nuts as we hear a lot of crap about Endas too if you go back far enough. So we really don't know what to take seriously. Someone's experience from 15 years ago isn't that helpful. If anyone knows anyone going their currently we'd love to hear about their experiences.

Lastly she thought between the Jes, Bish, and St Mary's we'd get in somewhere this side of town but sure she's bound to say that. She agreed the system is crazy and I would think most people would agree more weight should be given towards students applying to their closest school in their community wherever you are. She said they used to but all that had been stripped away, I presume after whatever fallout they had a few years back. She said they had applications from Oranmore to as far away as Craughwell and those applicants get treated the same as local kids. It's just a stupid, unnecessary pain in the hole that would seemingly be easy to fix. Hmm, just summed up Ireland there.

As I said , our oldest lad started there this year . I can't find fault with it so far and the young lad is settled well in which we were worried about because some of his class mates got into Enda's and others went to the Bish so he didn't know too many starting off .
I think its a pretty strict school which is no harm and the teachers seem helpful so its so far so good for us anyhow

Mrs OBumble

Moomintroll99 wrote: »

Maybe not much help to the OP but if it really is up and running by next year - and they sent out an ad recruiting for a principal today - it will add a significant number of first year places on top of what is currently available.

Obviously they won't get a site chosen, planning and build in that timeframe. (Unless there's a choice already made and not announced ...).

But FWIW, Merlin started its life in temporary accommodation, I think in some empty buildings at the Brothers of Charity site in Renmore. The new school could do the same.

It's hard to see any sense in putting more secondary school capacity on the west of the river, when there's already so much there. And given the thru route bus between Newcastle and Oranmore, it wouldn't be so far fetched for kids from the ET there to head to the Renmore/Oranmore area. There are also ETs in Claregalway and Kilcolgan, both longer established than Newcastle and so likely with more potential candidates for an ET secondary.

Ruhanna

Don't give up hope!

Other people in this thread, and the principal you spoke to, are right when they say that the system is crazy. Religious denomination is one of the root causes, and those posters who mentioned catchment and travel distance are spot on too.

There's no point in being on a years-long waiting list for St Enda's, as far as I know, because unless you already have a child there (or you're a member of staff) there's no guarantee of a place. However, on the bright side there are many delighted parents in Galway whose child got a place in Enda's via their lottery system, which is why you should not give up hope (yet).

It would be great if you had a Plan B, though.

A (personal) question, if you don't mind: did you go to secondary school in Galway yourself?

ggg16

The new Ed Together will be in Oranmore (that's what is on the advertisement for the principal's position).