Are foreign women more approachable than Irish girls?

Zorya

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There are Irish women who aren't repressed but it doesn't mean that they are more or less repressed than other nations. Why you consider that being free and not repressed equates to being put upon indicates more about you.

Being free of body and spirit does not mean doing something for somebody else. It means being free to explore your own desires and experiment with others. The fact you think standing up against this is not repressed shows you don't get it and are likely repressed.

That's deep, man.

Ray Palmer

Zorya wrote: »

That's deep, man.
]

Not really saying somebody is not repressed because they wouldn't put up with some suggestions is the odd thing to say.

LirW

eviltwin wrote: »

Irish people tend to be a bit more reserved until you get to know them and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I agree with it but as a non-Irish person it is certainly not easy to really befriend Irish people. They're friendly but keep talking about the weather (seriously, you have some unhealthy obsession there) or about super trivial things, but if it's about to get deeper than that people are pretty reserved. Especially if you aren't drinking.

Also from my observation Irish relationships move slowly and while in other cultures you certainly know after a while that you wanna proceed and move together, for Irish people it usually takes a lot longer - but it's not solely Irish but also a bit generational, I find young people tend to avoid serious commitment until they're a lot older. Which is fine, whatever suits you. More of an observation really.

Potatoeman

Irish guys need to be loaded with the old Dutch courage to approach women to quell the fear of rejection where Irish women sit across the bar trying to make eye contact with the guy they like. We’re like Pandas, how are we not extinct?

Zorya

SterlingArcher wrote: »

What does it matter. Irish woman's are looking and behaving more and more like fat American woman's. They need some internet influencer to tell them to all get on a boat so we can torpedo it and start fresh.

We could probably get them all on the boat by saying there is a free doughnuts, leggings a penny's and an Inglot shotgun in every cabin.

How have you lasted so long? Alive, I mean.

weldoninhio

Tommy Halpin Kelly wrote: »

Something funny I've noticed, I'm in my 20s and have never dated but have been flirted on two times both by a 24yr old spanish lady at Nice airport waiting to board and two 18yr old girls sitting beside me on a flight to New York.

It seems to echo what lads say about how when they go abroad, foreign women are either more open to random approaches and/or they'll be flirted on with women. I can't ever say that an Irish girl has done that.

Generalizations are not good of course but in general (lol), it seems that women here would be hard pressed to give you the time of day.

Surely your question, going by both your examples, should be ‘is it easier to flirt with girls you know you’ll never see again’??

The answer to that is, of course, Yes.

weldoninhio

corner of hells wrote: »

It does , but this being AH , it'll eventually descend into a rant about Muslims , Travellers , poppy wearing and Dublin.

At least you’re doing your best to keep it on topic :rolleyes:

ChikiChiki

I've noticed Irish women become much more open and approachable when they go abroad. Must be the village mentality at home where there is only a couple of degrees seperation between everyone.

Mr. Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

Especially if you've found some impoverished non-EU citizen who barely understands your language and attached socio-economic-cultural nuances as well as the women from your own country and culture do. For the first time in your life you find somebody who views you as some sort of exotic God.

Yes, one could see how that might be attractive to the losers who feel the need to look down on Irish women.

I actually think that's quite racist. Most people who travel here are not impoverished but are from very high socio-economic backgrounds to afford to travel here from Countries with quite poor currencies and exchange rates.

Most also have better English than a lot of Irish people who are poorly educated.

You obviously have a serious chip on your shoulder.

Ray Palmer

Potatoeman wrote: »

Irish guys need to be loaded with the old Dutch courage to approach women to quell the fear of rejection where Irish women sit across the bar trying to make eye contact with the guy they like. We’re like Pandas, how are we not extinct?

Weird thing is that is an accurate description for many places in Ireland. When I went to teenage discos as a kid that was pretty much it but less on the alcohol side.

Just assumed everyone grew up but then I ended up at a GAA club disco in my 30s near Clonakilty and the place was like being 12 again including a slow set. I can just say Dublin isn't like that but it is obvious parts of the country are still acting without any sophistication. That is how little pockets of barely modified behaviour ends up in the likes of Coppers where mostly rural people in Dublin go

Shenshen

As a foreign female, ones of the things I'm still not quite comfortable with is the gender separation in Ireland, for lack of a better word.

I'm not talking about some legally enforced thing here, but the apparently cultural habit to separate into male and female groups at any larger social gathering. Any time I've been out with groups, be it from work, or from working with charities, or any kind of other gathering, most Irish people seem to pretty much instantly sort themselves into the female part and the male part of the group. On most occasions, the males spent the evening talking to the other males, and the females talking to the other females.

Initially, when I wasn't at all familiar with this, I would have walked over to the male group to chat, who seemed rather uncomfortable about this, with conversation drying up fast. On returning to the female group, I was greeted with joking questions about how my attempt at flirting went, which only confused me further.

From my personal experience, I would say an element about why Irish men find foreign women "easier" is possibly simply that those women aren't all that familiar with Irish etiquette where genders are concerned, and just chat with a stranger of the opposite sex without much thought being given.

Zorya

Shenshen wrote: »

As a foreign female, ones of the things I'm still not quite comfortable with is the gender separation in Ireland, for lack of a better word.

I'm not talking about some legally enforced thing here, but the apparently cultural habit to separate into male and female groups at any larger social gathering. Any time I've been out with groups, be it from work, or from working with charities, or any kind of other gathering, most Irish people seem to pretty much instantly sort themselves into the female part and the male part of the group. On most occasions, the males spent the evening talking to the other males, and the females talking to the other females.

Initially, when I wasn't at all familiar with this, I would have walked over to the male group to chat, who seemed rather uncomfortable about this, with conversation drying up fast. On returning to the female group, I was greeted with joking questions about how my attempt at flirting went, which only confused me further.

From my personal experience, I would say an element about why Irish men find foreign women "easier" is possibly simply that those women aren't all that familiar with Irish etiquette where genders are concerned, and just chat with a stranger of the opposite sex without much thought being given.

Lookit, if we talk to men at all next thing we'll be having dirty sex with them, and that's just not on.

Wibbs

Shenshen wrote: »

As a foreign female, ones of the things I'm still not quite comfortable with is the gender separation in Ireland, for lack of a better word.

I'm not talking about some legally enforced thing here, but the apparently cultural habit to separate into male and female groups at any larger social gathering. Any time I've been out with groups, be it from work, or from working with charities, or any kind of other gathering, most Irish people seem to pretty much instantly sort themselves into the female part and the male part of the group. On most occasions, the males spent the evening talking to the other males, and the females talking to the other females.

Initially, when I wasn't at all familiar with this, I would have walked over to the male group to chat, who seemed rather uncomfortable about this, with conversation drying up fast. On returning to the female group, I was greeted with joking questions about how my attempt at flirting went, which only confused me further.

From my personal experience, I would say an element about why Irish men find foreign women "easier" is possibly simply that those women aren't all that familiar with Irish etiquette where genders are concerned, and just chat with a stranger of the opposite sex without much thought being given.

Bingo! Yep, that's quite noticeable in Irish culture. With as you say the inference, even expectation that if you're talking with someone of the opposite sex socially there must be some ulterior flirtation going on.

WillieMason

wakka12 wrote: »

Theres plenty of women in ireland who are flirtatious and confident enough to ask a man out, I wouldnt say its that rare. Several women I know from other countries have said that men in ireland are more reserved than in their home countries about flirting or asking girls out though, so could be onto something

It seems Irish women have beaten the confidence out of Irish men. If you look at all the countries in the world Ireland is probably one of the best for a woman to live in.

WillieMason

WillieMason wrote: »

It seems Irish women have beaten the confidence out of Irish men. If you look at all the countries in the world Ireland is probably one of the best for a woman to live in.

And better than oxygen.

Zorya

WillieMason wrote: »

It seems Irish women have beaten the confidence out of Irish men. If you look at all the countries in the world Ireland is probably one of the best for a woman to live in.

Just quoting for posterity.

Bigbagofcans

WillieMason wrote: »

It seems Irish women have beaten the confidence out of Irish men. If you look at all the countries in the world Ireland is probably one of the best for a woman to live in.

I know quite a few women who completely control men in their relationship. It's painful to watch and I hate the term 'she wears the trousers'.
No one should control you, man or woman.

WillieMason

It strikes me when i meet a friend whos dating a foreign woman hes happy, confident has his chest out always laughing. Then i try meet my friends who are dating a Irish woman first thing they do is ask there girlfriend is it ok to go out.

Deebles McBeebles

WillieMason wrote: »

It strikes me when i meet a friend whos dating a foreign woman hes happy, confident has his chest out always laughing. Then i try meet my friends who are dating a Irish woman first thing they do is ask there girlfriend is it ok to go out.

Is that really the girlfriends fault or are some of your mates hooking up with a new version of mammy?

irishguitarlad

Tommy Halpin Kelly wrote: »

Something funny I've noticed, I'm in my 20s and have never dated but have been flirted on two times both by a 24yr old spanish lady at Nice airport waiting to board and two 18yr old girls sitting beside me on a flight to New York.

It seems to echo what lads say about how when they go abroad, foreign women are either more open to random approaches and/or they'll be flirted on with women. I can't ever say that an Irish girl has done that.

Generalizations are not good of course but in general (lol), it seems that women here would be hard pressed to give you the time of day.

That Spanish girl may not have been flirting with you. Spanish people tend to be very touchey feely, with lots of eye contact. What you think maybe flirting is to them something like a normal social interaction.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Don't see anyone bringing looks into it to be fair. Your post was the first to do so.

It usually descends into that though. Give it time.

Mr. Incognito

Especially if you've found some impoverished non-EU citizen who barely understands your language and attached socio-economic-cultural nuances as well as the women from your own country and culture do. For the first time in your life you find somebody who views you as some sort of exotic God.

Yes, one could see how that might be attractive to the losers who feel the need to look down on Irish women.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I actually think that's quite racist.

Hilarious.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Most people who travel here are not impoverished but are from very high socio-economic backgrounds to afford to travel here from Countries with quite poor currencies and exchange rates.

Ha. I look forward to a similarly ridiculously irrelevant argument in favour of every other emigrant in world history. Given your "racist" generalisations about Irish women, I suspect you won't extend this flattering not-so-profound analysis to the Irish emigrants to America in, say, 1855? Really ridiculous.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Most also have better English than a lot of Irish people who are poorly educated.

Once again, the "I'm going to show how enlightened and non-racist I am by putting down the Irish" approach. A genuinely enlightened person could manage all this without swipes at Irish women generally and the supposed backwardness of Irish culture generally.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You obviously have a serious chip on your shoulder.

I'm not the one making silly put-downs on all Irish women. That sort of stuff doesn't come from somebody who has had positive experiences from them (because they're all a homogeneous group, of course). As said, it's much easier for a compatriot in any culture to spot a person's character and his socio-economic-cultural-educational achievements than it is for a foreign woman to do so. And it's precisely that which usually intimidates the "Irish women are so repressed" crowd.

PS: Your "I'm so enlightened because I travel around the world" attitude is also entertaining, as if the rest of us have never done so just because we decided to settle in Ireland. Not to throw you entirely overboard here, but if you're still travelling after a certain age it's usually not a good sign.

eviltwin

WillieMason wrote: »

It seems Irish women have beaten the confidence out of Irish men. If you look at all the countries in the world Ireland is probably one of the best for a woman to live in.

Is it not a good thing that ireland is a great place for women to live

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I don't see people just referring to non-EU citizens. If you think all is nice with Irish relationships you might just be missing genuine issues. Some behaviour and expectations in Irish relationships are not healthy nor good.

There are plenty of Irish people of both sexes trying to recreate their parents relationships. Not sure if they lack imagination or just don't understand how to make their own choices.

I know polish women who don't want a polish relationship as it is quite sexist and much prefer Irish men as a result. While I know Irish women that expect the man to provide everything and work for the family and treat partners like another child to be controlled.

It is really rare to find Irish women who don’t expect to work at all. If there are kids in the picture, women are more likely to work part-time than men but the other half of their day will be ably filled with childcare and doing more of the housework than their husband so it all evens out. The bone idle Irish woman you describe here is alien to me.

Assetbacked

Wibbs wrote: »

Bingo! Yep, that's quite noticeable in Irish culture. With as you say the inference, even expectation that if you're talking with someone of the opposite sex socially there must be some ulterior flirtation going on.

Most of the time there is.

Wheety

OP, how come you've never dated?

SusieBlue

eviltwin wrote: »

Is it not a good thing that ireland is a great place for women to live

In other words, we should be grateful that the menfolk don't still have us chained to the kitchen sink & stop moaning about our lot. :rolleyes:

greenspurs

and once again, the majority of women are getting offended ....

Isnt that another reason why Irish women are becoming so difficult to live with/understand/comprehend/listen to ?

The majority of them feel the need to "stand up for women" and be outraged/upset continually.! Even when a simple question is asked on a thread.... Its very tiresome at this stage, monotonous and boring.

Anywhere outside of Ireland I get more matches on Tinder in a day than in a month here, I have girls come up to talk to me at bars, I can have a conversation without being given a dirty look for having the nerve to try etc. It's a bit annoying how it happens the same everywhere, so yeah, I think maybe my issues aren't totally down to me. :pac:

Church on Tuesday

Irish women tend to be very picky.

Often when they have no real business being picky themselves.

Church on Tuesday

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Irish women tend to be very picky.

Often when they have no real business being picky themselves.

Picky in relation to looks? I think most couples are quite similar in the looks dept. you'd rarely see a couple where one is a stunner and the other much less good looking imo.

Shenshen

Assetbacked wrote: »

Most of the time there is.

See, that's what I mean.

In many cultures, most of the time, there isn't. It's just people chatting with each other.
But in my experience here, people are very quick to assume it's a flirt, simply because "man just chatting to woman" or "woman just chatting to man" doesn't happen very often at all.

Shenshen

Shenshen wrote: »

See, that's what I mean.

In many cultures, most of the time, there isn't. It's just people chatting with each other.
But in my experience here, people are very quick to assume it's a flirt, simply because "man just chatting to woman" or "woman just chatting to man" doesn't happen very often at all.

On a night out with drink on board there usually is a bit of flirting going on imo.

Zorya

Deleted User wrote: »

Picky in relation to looks? I think most couples are quite similar in the looks dept. you'd rarely see a couple where one is a stunner and the other much less good looking imo.

It depends, though...some guys have super personalities.

retro:electro

Ah this thread again. You wouldn’t feel the year going.

Lol.. You know what I mean Zorya.

Triceratops Ballet

greenspurs wrote: »

and once again, the majority of women are getting offended ....

Isnt that another reason why Irish women are becoming so difficult to live with/understand/comprehend/listen to ?

The majority of them feel the need to "stand up for women" and be outraged/upset continually.! Even when a simple question is asked on a thread.... Its very tiresome at this stage, monotonous and boring.

No what's tiresome, monotonous and boring is constantly seeing threads where Irish women are basically lambasted for not being as flirtatious/good looking/thin/as good at making sandwiches as foreign women. When actually the Irish lads levelling these accusations could do with a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.

We all get more attention abroad, or from people who view us as exotic. That's not news or unique to men.
I love speaking to foreign men, they have a much easier charm and sensuality about them especially Mediterranean or Latin men, don't get me wrong all the men I've ever really loved were Irish men, but all of my favourite dalliances have been with foreign men. Foreign men are also much more straightforward, approachable, and into making the approach than Irish men. They don't need buckets of Dutch courage to try and start a conversation, I've also never had a foreign bloke call me a "forking b1tch" when I declined his advances.
IMO It's pretty safe to say that Irish people in general are terrible at flirting and with the opposite sex. Yet there's innumerable threads here that could basically be titled "women, amirite?" when actually it's an evenly dispersed problem among Irish men and women.

Assetbacked

Shenshen wrote: »

See, that's what I mean.

In many cultures, most of the time, there isn't. It's just people chatting with each other.
But in my experience here, people are very quick to assume it's a flirt, simply because "man just chatting to woman" or "woman just chatting to man" doesn't happen very often at all.

I can safely say that the majority of straight men will have some thoughts of sleeping with the girl if they're conversing well.

Wibbs

Assetbacked wrote: »

Most of the time there is.

I wouldn't agree. Certainly not in non pub/club/social settings. I would say the vast majority of the time I'm in conversation with women there's zero flirtation going on. Even in pub/club/social I can quite happily chat with women without an ulterior motive and do. Crazy shit to be thinking, but there it is.

This kinda backs up what Shenshen noted from an "outsider" perspective and what I've noted myself as an "outsider" in other cultures*. Yes flirtation goes on elsewhere and ulterior motives abound. After all people want to get it on with other people, but it does seem to me that there's far more of the nudge nudge wink wink thing here in Ireland compared to other places I've been.

EG I have women mates, no sexy stuff between us ever, nor would their be and this was accepted far less readily by Irish girlfriends(and male mates with it), who tended to think either something was going on, they were exes, or torches were being held by one or both of the parties. Now I'd reckon we'd all tend to think like that in our teens say, but to get that vibe from people in their 20/30/40's even older is a little more noticeable here. To be fair that's just my experience, your mileage may differ.







*European only TBH. Little idea of this sorta thing beyond that.

Zorya

Assetbacked wrote: »

I can safely say that the majority of straight men will have some thoughts of sleeping with the girl if they're conversing well.

Even if its his granny ?

Shenshen

Deleted User wrote: »

On a night out with drink on board there usually is a bit of flirting going on imo.

Ok, I think I'm struggling to express myself a little. Apologies, it's not my first language.

What I'm trying to get across is that in Irish society, on a night out, there is little to no interaction between males and females other than rather obvious flirting.

In OTHER societies, there would be a lot of interaction between males and females, with no "ulterior" motives, and no actual flirting.

So when Irish men encounter non-Irish females from those societies, who will just walk up to them and chat with them the way they would with anyone else, the Irish man assumes they're being flirted with. In reality, the woman in question is not flirting, but just treating the man as she would any other new acquaintance, male or female.
He also extrapolates from that that non-Irish women are easier to chat up.

Interestingly, this also made me feel on occasion that Irish men are way too intense. Not that surprising, if the only reason they'd start a conversation with a new female acquaintance is if they have sexual interest in her.

skallywag

Has this topic not been done to death?

Sorry OP, nothing personal, maybe you have just acquired interweb access.

Shenshen

Assetbacked wrote: »

I can safely say that the majority of straight men will have some thoughts of sleeping with the girl if they're conversing well.

Really? Never knew men had the horn for a good conversationalist!

I know that men tend to be a lot faster with the "I would/I wouldn't" decision, but what I do think is that while a man in a social group elsewhere in Europe might well have more than half of the females in the group on his "I would" list, he'd still be chatting just as freely with the "I wouldn't"s, and the "I would"s would not be "I really have to"s.

That goes both ways, I've got a number of good (male) friends, nothing ever happened and nothing ever will, but we do enjoy each others' company and are just good friends.
Sadly, I've not made a single (straight) male Irish friend in all the time I've been here. Friendship just generally doesn't seem to be something men here are interested in.

Triceratops Ballet

Shenshen wrote: »

Interestingly, this also made me feel on occasion that Irish men are way too intense. Not that surprising, if the only reason they'd start a conversation with a new female acquaintance is if they have sexual interest in her.

I can relate to this, and I didn't even realise it until you said it, a lot of the time when you're speaking to a bloke in a bar or some other social setting the air is so laden with expectation that it's uncomfortable, like you can feel the pressure he's putting himself under to maintain the conversation or be funny. Yet I'm sure most of these blokes carry out perfectly normal and successful conversations with their female coworkers on a day to day basis!

Assetbacked

Assetbacked wrote: »

I can safely say that the majority of straight men will have some thoughts of sleeping with the girl if they're conversing well.

I'd presume that as well and that's the vibe I'd pick up on, hard to describe but even if you get chatting at the bar on a night out there's a certain vibe there even if one or both of you are on a night out with your oh and nothing is going to happen it's definitely a flirty chat or maybe that's just me picking up on something that's not actually happening. 😞

Assetbacked

Shenshen wrote: »

Really? Never knew men had the horn for a good conversationalist!

I know that men tend to be a lot faster with the "I would/I wouldn't" decision, but what I do think is that while a man in a social group elsewhere in Europe might well have more than half of the females in the group on his "I would" list, he'd still be chatting just as freely with the "I wouldn't"s, and the "I would"s would not be "I really have to"s.

That goes both ways, I've got a number of good (male) friends, nothing ever happened and nothing ever will, but we do enjoy each others' company and are just good friends.
Sadly, I've not made a single (straight) male Irish friend in all the time I've been here. Friendship just generally doesn't seem to be something men here are interested in.

My jeans tighten when a girl gets her prose on.

On the friendship point I think that is more to do with Irish society being relatively small with not a lot of degrees of separation between people. What this means is that people have their established friends groups so don't feel the need to go out and make new friends in the same way if they were moving to a different country where they knew no one.

Assetbacked

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd presume that as well and that's the vibe I'd pick up on, hard to describe but even if you get chatting at the bar on a night out there's a certain vibe there even if one or both of you are on a night out with your oh and nothing is going to happen it's definitely a flirty chat or maybe that's just me picking up on something that's not actually happening. ��

Exactly and it's not "ulterior" or anything sinister like that it's quite simply just getting along with someone and being biologically inclined to enjoy throwing it into a female (yes I'm aware the second half of that sentence puts a question mark over my claim that it's not ulterior ).

greenspurs

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

No what's tiresome, monotonous and boring is constantly seeing threads where Irish women are basically lambasted for not being as flirtatious/good looking/thin/as good at making sandwiches as foreign women. When actually the Irish lads levelling these accusations could do with a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.

So you are outraged then? Or just standing up for all women? or just a bit paranoid?
Irish woman had the Irish men to themselves for so long without any fear of women from foreign countries 'taking their men' . Its now time for them to get out of their penneys track bottoms and see thru lycra leggings, ditch the pyjamas when walking to the shops .... Oh, and stop 'tanning' yourselves orange!!
At least the steroids the Irish lads are taking to try be as buff as the foreign lads work !!

And then to further your point, you then turn it around on the men, and say its their fault ! :rolleyes:

When will the Irish mammies be outraged at being called irish mammies....

Shenshen

Assetbacked wrote: »

My jeans tighten when a girl gets her prose on.

On the friendship point I think that is more to do with Irish society being relatively small with not a lot of degrees of separation between people. What this means is that people have their established friends groups so don't feel the need to go out and make new friends in the same way if they were moving to a different country where they knew no one.

But then surely that would hold true for both men and women? I have made a few female friends that are Irish, but not a single straight male friend.
Now, ok, that might just be me, but all I can do on this subject is share personal experiences. I'd be very curious to hear from anyone who has made different experiences. Maybe I'm the one doing things wrong (that has happened before!)

And let's be clear, I'm in no way blaming Irish men for this. It takes both men and women to develop this kind of culture.

Wibbs

Assetbacked wrote: »

I can safely say that the majority of straight men will have some thoughts of sleeping with the girl if they're conversing well.

If we're conversing well? I dunno about you, but I need way more than that to be thinking of shaggage. TBH with me it's looks, what I find physically attractive comes first. Good conversation and intelligence most certainly adds to that and a gibbering eejit puts me off the boil, but I know within pretty much seconds whether I find someone sexually attractive or not. Even then I wouldn't switch to flirty mode unless it was contextual.

Shenshen wrote: »

Ok, I think I'm struggling to express myself a little. Apologies, it's not my first language.

Fuck me! I have that complaint all the time S and it is my first language. :eek:

What I'm trying to get across is that in Irish society, on a night out, there is little to no interaction between males and females other than rather obvious flirting.

In OTHER societies, there would be a lot of interaction between males and females, with no "ulterior" motives, and no actual flirting.

So when Irish men encounter non-Irish females from those societies, who will just walk up to them and chat with them the way they would with anyone else, the Irish man assumes they're being flirted with. In reality, the woman in question is not flirting, but just treating the man as she would any other new acquaintance, male or female.
He also extrapolates from that that non-Irish women are easier to chat up.

Interestingly, this also made me feel on occasion that Irish men are way too intense. Not that surprising, if the only reason they'd start a conversation with a new female acquaintance is if they have sexual interest in her.

Agreed again. Even in places like Italy and Spain where the men can be bloody full on with the flirting with, even hassling women and not just at night, you also have groups, sometime quite large groups of men and women, attached and unattached hanging out together. That's the usual setup, to the degree that I've heard some non locals say that the locals are quite cliquey, because if you're not in the group it's hard to kick off conversation. Which I'd personally not agree with. Then again I'll put the talk on anyone and actually like talking with complete strangers, which to be fair most people aren't so comfortable with.