Football Leaks: UEFA Investigation into Manchester City

kippy · 16-05-2019 11:58am

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I'm not pretnding I have any legal backround but have the FFP rules ever been challenged? Surely if I want to put my money into my business that's my right. Restraint of trade?

At the end of the day the club/business has to be sustainable. What happens when multimillionaire pulls the plug?

.G. · 16-05-2019 12:42pm

Pauliedragon wrote:

My point if the rules are illegal they are null and void surely? If an employer makes me sign a contract for â‚¬5hr an hour it's not valid as it's under minimum wage. I'm standing up for city I've been thinking this since FFP came in. I'm just asking if some club too it to court would they win not if city are right or wrong.

Uefa is a private entity with its own competitions and its own rules to play in those competitions. Nothing illegal about them. Much like any competition you enter, it will have its own set of rules. Premier league has its own rules that differ from uefas too.

Man city are welcome to spend as much money as they like on their squad however they would quite like to play in uefas Competitions and therefore agreed to follow Uefa rules in order to do so, just like everyone else in those competitions.

If the footy leaks are accurate, and Man City have never once said they aren't, they just lied about following the rules and presumed they'd never be caught out.

citytillidie · 16-05-2019 9:44pm

Pauliedragon wrote: »

My point if the rules are illegal they are null and void surely? If an employer makes me sign a contract for €5hr an hour it's not valid as it's under minimum wage. I'm standing up for city I've been thinking this since FFP came in. I'm just asking if some club too it to court would they win not if city are right or wrong.

To play in a UEFA comp Man City signed up to follow the rules set by UEFA, most teams have followed these rules a few have bent them and been punished, Man City have already been punished for bending the rules and kept doing it so next thing would be exclusion from the comp if they cant follow the rules

Mr.H · 16-05-2019 10:35pm

At the end of the day city received 10 million from a sponsor and pretended it was 50 million. That is just one if a long list of offenses. There is more illegalities in that than uefas law being "illegal"

Agent Coulson · 16-05-2019 10:50pm

Even if they get fined €100m as punishment they will announce a new sponsorship deal the next day for €200m.

fyfe79 · 16-05-2019 11:03pm

Mr.H wrote: »

At the end of the day city received 10 million from a sponsor and pretended it was 50 million. That is just one if a long list of offenses. There is more illegalities in that than uefas law being "illegal"

But loads of lads were saying City saved football last week!?

Don't get it

Trigger · 16-05-2019 11:19pm

Pauliedragon wrote: »

My point if the rules are illegal they are null and void surely? If an employer makes me sign a contract for €5hr an hour it's not valid as it's under minimum wage. I'm standing up for city I've been thinking this since FFP came in. I'm just asking if some club too it to court would they win not if city are right or wrong.

If I sign up to a golf competition that is a strokes comp but do not record every stroke, i will be disqualified.

The fines would be in relation to prize money given out for participation, while not following the rules.. basically UEFA claiming their money back.

eagle eye · 17-05-2019 12:20am

Let's go after every club that have broken rules and ban them all. It's not fair to just pick on one or two clubs. I'd be quite confident that if a thorough investigation was carried out on every club in the Premier league that none of the top six would be allowed okay in Uefa competitions.

dmigsy · 17-05-2019 5:22am

eagle eye wrote: »

Let's go after every club that have broken rules and ban them all. It's not fair to just pick on one or two clubs. I'd be quite confident that if a thorough investigation was carried out on every club in the Premier league that none of the top six would be allowed okay in Uefa competitions.

What are your allegations based on?

Pauliedragon · 17-05-2019 10:49am

astradave wrote: »

If I sign up to a golf competition that is a strokes comp but do not record every stroke, i will be disqualified.

The fines would be in relation to prize money given out for participation, while not following the rules.. basically UEFA claiming their money back.

I agree the reason I thought of this was back in Rugby league in Australia they used to have a draft system where the best young players went to bottom clubs like the U.S sports do. 2 players took it to court and won even though they signed up to the competition rules. There is no draft in the NRL today.
Also all sports over there have a salary cap and it's widely accepted in the legal fraternity that if it was ever challenged in court it would be a breach of players rights to earn whatever a club is willing to pay them even though the clubs and players signed up to the competition rules.

Trigger · 17-05-2019 11:10am

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I agree the reason I thought of this was back in Rugby league in Australia they used to have a draft system where the best young players went to bottom clubs like the U.S sports do. 2 players took it to court and won even though they signed up to the competition rules. There is no draft in the NRL today.
Also all sports over there have a salary cap and it's widely accepted in the legal fraternity that if it was ever challenged in court it would be a breach of players rights to earn whatever a club is willing to pay them even though the clubs and players signed up to the competition rules.

That would be under freedom of movement though, it would be the same in Europe, and already covered in football with the Bosman ruling, there is also another ruling that has totally slipped from my mind with regards to contracts, cant think at all of it, but these are basically covered under employment rights and would not fall under the same umbrella as FFP.

Edit: the Webster ruling is the one I'm thinking of which allows players to walk away from a contract after a specific amount of time.. it hasnt been used at all I dont think since the initial case and it's one of the (many) reasons why you see the bigger clubs giving new contracts after only a year or two.

citytillidie · 17-05-2019 11:10am

eagle eye wrote: »

Let's go after every club that have broken rules and ban them all. It's not fair to just pick on one or two clubs. I'd be quite confident that if a thorough investigation was carried out on every club in the Premier league that none of the top six would be allowed okay in Uefa competitions.

But this current investigation is not about the finance, City were already found guilty of that and fined already so we know they have cheated the system. This current one by UEFA is an investigation of City providing false evidence in said previous investigation

Necro · 17-05-2019 11:17am

eagle eye wrote:

Let's go after every club that have broken rules and ban them all. It's not fair to just pick on one or two clubs. I'd be quite confident that if a thorough investigation was carried out on every club in the Premier league that none of the top six would be allowed okay in Uefa competitions.

Well given Chelsea are currently facing a transfer ban that's already happening.

But what do you allege is wrong with the finances of United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs?

Pauliedragon · 17-05-2019 11:25am

astradave wrote: »

That would be under freedom of movement though, it would be the same in Europe, and already covered in football with the Bosman ruling, there is also another ruling that has totally slipped from my mind with regards to contracts, cant think at all of it, but these are basically covered under employment rights and would not fall under the same umbrella as FFP.

It was about a players earning capacity. A player was told he was going to club A but club B were prepared to pay more so the court ruled infringed on his rights to earn his potential wages. Same with the cap. A player could be worth 2 million but the club can only pay 1.5m due to the cap. The court would rule it infrignes on his earning rights. All I'm saying is if a club wanted to pay Messi 500 million a year but couldn't because of FFP wouldn't that infringe on Messi's earning potential? Which could potentially be deemed illegal on workers rights. I'm only asking the question I'm not giving an opinion either way.

ozzy jr · 17-05-2019 11:45am

Pauliedragon wrote: »

All I'm saying is if a club wanted to pay Messi 500 million a year but couldn't because of FFP wouldn't that infringe on Messi's earning potential? Which could potentially be deemed illegal on workers rights. I'm only asking the question I'm not giving an opinion either way.

I can see where you're coming from and I don't know the answer. If it was that straight forward, I'm sure it would have been knocked back by UEFAs solicitors, or at the very least challenged by someone. I don't believe it has.

Shanotheslayer · 17-05-2019 12:14pm

Necro wrote: »

Well given Chelsea are currently facing a transfer ban that's already happening.

But what do you allege is wrong with the finances of United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs?

Daniel Levy a genius even more.

Can't break FFP if you don't buy

loobylou · 18-05-2019 10:12am

If City were to get a ban from the CL you may as well just hand them the premier league that season. Imagine how they’d play with 10 fewer games?

ERG89 · 18-05-2019 10:54am

Necro wrote: »

But what do you allege is wrong with the finances of United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs?

I think Arsenal's & United's owners take a lot more out of the club than they put in.
Don't think UEFA are looking at that tho.

LuckyLloyd · 18-05-2019 11:30am

In one set of rooms World Football takes the money of Middle Eastern tyrants and sells it’s most important tournament. In another, Barcelona - one of the games most revered and storied clubs preaching a higher purpose for itself - takes the money of Middle Eastern tyrants to allow them to splash their cause on the jersey.

Meanwhile in these other rooms UEFA tries to limit the amount of money the tyrants invest in a couple of the wrong sort of clubs.

Football invited these morally bankrupt people and their walls of money into the game. They were never going to play by rules. City, Guardiola and their magnificent squad outside the European Cup weakens the competition and destabilises the game. Just as the plug being pulled on PSG would be destabilising. Pandora’s box is open, the chaos is already unleashed.

Agent Coulson · 18-05-2019 1:35pm

In the back rooms of the UAE how do we distract from what we are doing in the Yemen.

Easy lets buy the the most popular sport in the world and and have people talk about how we are doing that and they will forget about the Yemen.

LuckyLloyd · 18-05-2019 3:52pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

In the back rooms of the UAE how do we distract from what we are doing in the Yemen.

Easy lets but the the most popular sport in the world and and have people talk about how we are doing that and they will forget about the Yemen.

The people investing in City, PSG, Barca are the lowest kind. The money comes from a real bad place. And the impending WC in Qatar has killed way too many people (1 was too many obv).

eagle eye · 18-05-2019 4:11pm

Agent Coulson wrote:

Easy lets buy the the most popular sport in the world and and have people talk about how we are doing that and they will forget about the Yemen.

That hasn't happened though.

super_furry · 18-05-2019 4:41pm

loobylou wrote: »

If City were to get a ban from the CL you may as well just hand them the premier league that season. Imagine how they’d play with 10 fewer games?

Only straw to grasp at there would be maybe they might lose a couple of players who want to play in Europe? Would probably find it slightly harder to sign players too.

Agent Coulson · 18-05-2019 5:52pm

super_furry wrote: »

Only straw to grasp at there would be maybe they might lose a couple of players who want to play in Europe? Would probably find it slightly harder to sign players too.

Not with a one season ban they would just play the players even more money for missing out on one season.

If UEFA really want to hit them hard they would ban them for 5 seasons.

That would affect them long term and players wanting Champions League football may think twice about joining them.

NIMAN · 18-05-2019 11:02pm

Football is one big money laundering racket these days.

eagle eye · 19-05-2019 2:03am

NIMAN wrote:

Football is one big money laundering racket these days.

These days? It's been like that for donkey's years.

rwbug · 19-05-2019 3:45am

Ban us (City) from the CL however long you want - It means City will romp the Premier League every year.

From the leaks shown I think City win their case easily. Uefa have put themselves in a very dodgy position, certified accounts trump stolen e-emails.

City could bring down UEFA with the amount of compensation they would be due.

SharpshooterTom · 19-05-2019 4:27am

eagle eye wrote: »

These days? It's been like that for donkey's years.

You're right, but its getting worse though, the gap between rich and poor is widening.

You only have to see the complete domination of the top European league's by Juve (8 in a row), Barca/Real (14 out of the 15 titles), PSG (2 in a row and counting), Bayern (7 in a row), Celtic (8 in a row) Man City will probably win a number in a row.

We're creating monopolies and I don't think its a great thing for game to see all the top league's look like this.

NIMAN · 19-05-2019 4:35am

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

You're right, but its getting worse though, the gap between rich and poor is widening.

You only have to see the complete domination of the top European league's by Juve (8 in a row), Barca/Real (14 out of the 15 titles), PSG (2 in a row and counting), Bayern (7 in a row), Celtic (8 in a row) Man City will probably win a number in a row.

We're creating monopolies and I don't think its a great thing for game to see all the top league's look like this.

... and with all these teams dominating, the only logical outcome is an ESL.

dmigsy · 19-05-2019 4:57am

eagle eye wrote: »

NIMAN wrote:

Football is one big money laundering racket these days.

These days? It's been like that for donkey's years.

NIMAN wrote: »

Football is one big money laundering racket these days.

This is well into tinfoil hat wearing territory. Plenty of accusations with little basis or reasoned discussion.

All of football is a money laundering racket? Get a grip.

kippy · 19-05-2019 5:53am

NIMAN wrote: »

... and with all these teams dominating, the only logical outcome is an ESL.

Yes. Let them have had it. An ESL would burst the bubble eventually.

Pauliedragon · 19-05-2019 7:20am

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

You're right, but its getting worse though, the gap between rich and poor is widening.

You only have to see the complete domination of the top European league's by Juve (8 in a row), Barca/Real (14 out of the 15 titles), PSG (2 in a row and counting), Bayern (7 in a row), Celtic (8 in a row) Man City will probably win a number in a row.

We're creating monopolies and I don't think its a great thing for game to see all the top league's look like this.

Premier league has had 4 different winners in 7 years.

loobylou · 19-05-2019 7:27am

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Premier league has had 4 different winners in 7 years.

15 years actually.

Pauliedragon · 19-05-2019 8:59am

loobylou wrote: »

15 years actually.

Fair enough what about GAA? Football has had 5 winners in 15 years including 4 in a row and hurling 6 in 15 years and its an amateur sport. Rugbys European cup, 6 winners in 15. Its not just soccer that's uneven.

ozzy jr · 19-05-2019 9:53am

From the post game press conference,

https://twitter.com/HaytersTV/status/1129836918764711936

https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/1129854871526662145

Could article here, especially the second half of it with the reaction from city fans,

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/manchester-city-vs-watford-fa-cup-final-premier-league-treble-pep-guardiola-abu-dhabi-a8917671.html

IncognitoMan · 19-05-2019 10:45am

Fair play to that Journalist actually having the balls to ask a question like that.

Pep knows.

eagle eye · 19-05-2019 10:45am

Look there is a simple solution but FIFA and Uefa don't want to know anything about it and neither do the clubs. It's called a salary cap where there is a maximum wage you can spend. Do this and it would even.things out and maybe even give the smaller clubs a chance at winning something.
They'll never go for this though because it would mean that the media would be keeping a closer eye on funding.

IncognitoMan · 19-05-2019 10:50am

eagle eye wrote: »

Look there is a simple solution but FIFA and Uefa don't want to know anything about it and neither do the clubs. It's called a salary cap where there is a maximum wage you can spend. Do this and it would even.things out and maybe even give the smaller clubs a chance at winning something.
They'll never go for this though because it would mean that the media would be keeping a closer eye on funding.

Like a spending cap based on the amount of money the club is able to self generate in an attempt to stop clubs spending themselves into huge debt they would never have a chance of paying off if the owner walked?

.G. · 19-05-2019 10:51am

Rob Harris and Miguel Delaney seem especially pro active on this now after years of silence. They should probably check under their cars for the foreseeable future.

dan1895 · 19-05-2019 11:05am

ozzy jr wrote: »

From the post game press conference,

https://twitter.com/HaytersTV/status/1129836918764711936

https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/1129854871526662145

Could article here, especially the second half of it with the reaction from city fans,

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/manchester-city-vs-watford-fa-cup-final-premier-league-treble-pep-guardiola-abu-dhabi-a8917671.html

The lady doth protest too much.

ThunbergsAreGo · 19-05-2019 11:24am

dan1895 wrote: »

ozzy jr wrote: »

From the post game press conference,

https://twitter.com/HaytersTV/status/1129836918764711936

https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/1129854871526662145

Could article here, especially the second half of it with the reaction from city fans,

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/manchester-city-vs-watford-fa-cup-final-premier-league-treble-pep-guardiola-abu-dhabi-a8917671.html

The lady doth protest too much.

Yeah a smell of guilt off that

Benzino · 19-05-2019 11:36am

eagle eye wrote: »

Look there is a simple solution but FIFA and Uefa don't want to know anything about it and neither do the clubs. It's called a salary cap where there is a maximum wage you can spend. Do this and it would even.things out and maybe even give the smaller clubs a chance at winning something.
They'll never go for this though because it would mean that the media would be keeping a closer eye on funding.

Then clubs would just include the salary in the signing on fee.

LuckyLloyd · 19-05-2019 12:18pm

The guilty head on him. He knows well who his pay masters are and the nature of City’s financial abilities. Like it or lump it, it taints his achievements just that little bit. And he knows that too.

ozzy jr · 19-05-2019 12:20pm

https://twitter.com/MiguelDelaney/st...983539200?s=19

“Ever get the feeling you’ve been had?”
The end today saw a team owned by a member of the royal family of a human-rights abusing regime, all outfitted in jerseys showcasing one of their companies, lifting a trophy sponsored by that company. What is this?

City have been used as a vassal for some project that could have gone anywhere - which is why, despite all the triumph they love, it’s an ironic tragedy for fans. It’s inherently weird. Football journalists should prob not allow this to be normalised but we for too long have

Today was a freak show. It should be a tipping point. *why* have we got to a situation where this is normal, as clubs like Bolton have to set up foodbanks for employees. Football is supposed to be escapism, not a reflection of the real world, and ruinous effects of capitalism

And - I will probable get blowback for this - but anyone reporting on this as if it’s a normal achievement and just a group of players pushing themselves to the limit in the way great sport should be should be called out. This is a joke.

Apologies for this. A bit harsh. Live game reporting is pressured. But any kind of follow-up tbf. We for too long used the excuse "politics is not our remit and we just write about the game", but when this so influences what happens on the pitch we have to write about it.

Gettingresponses re "what about when Utd signed Ferdinand 30m". Any financial disparity is objectively bad. It skews sport. But what City are doing is on another level. Bar PSG, there is not another case similar to a key member of an Emirati royal family owning a football club.

ThunbergsAreGo · 19-05-2019 1:13pm

Not sure if this has been posted

James Montague https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesPiotr/status/1129709364409970688

theoneeyedman · 19-05-2019 1:33pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Look there is a simple solution but FIFA and Uefa don't want to know anything about it and neither do the clubs. It's called a salary cap where there is a maximum wage you can spend. Do this and it would even.things out and maybe even give the smaller clubs a chance at winning something.
They'll never go for this though because it would mean that the media would be keeping a closer eye on funding.

Will a salary cap work though?Why not have a company......say hypothetically a sport club in another country, e.g Abu Dhabi, pay half of for instance the managers wages off the books? Or maybe pay wages/bonuses into a numbered account in the Caymans? Ways around everything, and these guys have little regard on rules they don't make themselves.
Pep and his backroom team have done a brilliant job at City, it's a challenge in itself to identify star players and knit them into a functioning squad/team, regardless of the money involved. To handle those egos is a big job, many managers have tried and failed with lots of money. But as has been said, this is on another scale, and there is blood on the money they are handling, and all of this does take from the achievement and Peps legacy. He knows it behind it all.....

ozzy jr · 19-05-2019 1:39pm

There's no need for salary caps or anything like that. There's 20 teams in the Premier League and 19 seem to have played by the rules.

The Arabs could have also played by the rules and built "their club" slowly, but they didn't. They wanted everything and they wanted it now.

UrbanFret · 19-05-2019 1:41pm

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Fair play to that Journalist actually having the balls to ask a question like that.

Pep knows.

Fair play for what? Being an absolute cnut. Doubt he even knew what he was talking about. What the fk had Mancini to do with post fa cup press conference. Should have been ejected. A few journos are about to get their arses handed to them and about time too

noodler · 19-05-2019 1:42pm

UrbanFret wrote: »

Fair play for what? Being an absolute cnut. Doubt he even knew what he was talking about. What the fk had Mancini to do with post fa cup press conference. Should have been ejected. A few journos are about to get their arses handed to them and about time too

**** that.

No censorship.

There is never a press conference about these antics specifically so it'll never be the right time.

Journalism isn't all about telling Pep how great he is.

UrbanFret · 19-05-2019 1:47pm

noodler wrote: »

**** that.

No censorship.

There is never a press conference about these antics specifically so it'll never be the right time.

Journalism isn't all about telling Pep how great he is.

City have been far to nice for far too long, the gloves are finally off and about time too. He can join that wanker Dan roan who has to stand across the road at the Etihad.

Football Leaks: UEFA Investigation into Manchester City

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