Football Leaks: UEFA Investigation into Manchester City

ozzy jr

UrbanFret wrote: »

Fair play for what? Being an absolute cnut. Doubt he even knew what he was talking about. What the fk had Mancini to do with post fa cup press conference. Should have been ejected. A few journos are about to get their arses handed to them and about time too

Yeah, silence the press. That's what the UAE like to do.

eagle eye

Benzino wrote:

Then clubs would just include the salary in the signing on fee.

Signing on bonuses would be included in the salary cap.

IncognitoMan wrote:

Like a spending cap based on the amount of money the club is able to self generate in an attempt to stop clubs spending themselves into huge debt they would never have a chance of paying off if the owner walked?

No, the same maximum salary cap for all teams.

eagle eye

Benzino wrote:

Then clubs would just include the salary in the signing on fee.

Signing on bonuses would be included in the salary cap.

IncognitoMan wrote:

Like a spending cap based on the amount of money the club is able to self generate in an attempt to stop clubs spending themselves into huge debt they would never have a chance of paying off if the owner walked?

No, the same maximum salary cap for all teams.

Mr.H

eagle eye wrote:

No, the same maximum salary cap for all teams.

So st. Patricks ath would have the same salary cap as real madrid? Or are we talking about same country? Meaning the bigger nations would stay bigger?

We could just throw the book at city. Fact is they lied and they hid their finances badly.

Sponsors paid them 10 million and they pretended it was 50. They bought players and loaned them to new york for free which bypassed that salary cap ffs. They paid mancini only 40% of his wages at city and had their parent group pay 60% to be a "sports advisor", to reduce their official spend. They claimed to pay less in wages than united liverpool and spurs..... spurs!!! You are in absolute denial if you think they are anyway innocent.

Dont even get me started about their warlord owners who should rot in a windowless cell or be tracked down as part of the war on terror

eagle eye

Mr.H wrote:

We could just throw the book at city. Fact is they lied and they hid their finances badly.

Do you remember the Bebe transfer to Manchester United?
Can you tell me why they signed a 36 year old backup goalkeeper from Stoke last season?

UrbanFret

ozzy jr wrote: »

Yeah, silence the press. That's what the UAE like to do.

No ones saying to silence the press. Just the knobs that are looking to score points with a certain fanbase. Seems to be working rather well too.

Agent Coulson

If I was those Journo's I'd be declining any interviews at UAE embassies.

eigrod

UrbanFret wrote: »

No ones saying to silence the press. Just the knobs that are looking to score points with a certain fanbase. Seems to be working rather well too.

Which fanbase?

Mitch Connor

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you remember the Bebe transfer to Manchester United?
Can you tell me why they signed a 36 year old backup goalkeeper from Stoke last season?

They signed grant so they could send Henderson on loan. What's your concern with united signing grant?

Bebe was dodgy as f though.

Mitch Connor

UrbanFret wrote: »

No ones saying to silence the press. Just the knobs that are looking to score points with a certain fanbase. Seems to be working rather well too.

You are, cause you don't like city being questioned.

You are saying city should be 'taking the gloves off' cause the journo asked about dodgy payments.

You're dressing it up as they are doing it to score points, but there are legit questions to be asked and they should be asked. If not at a press conference when do you think it should be?

UrbanFret

eigrod wrote: »

Which fanbase?

Id have thought it was obvious. Anyway any controversial posts and you get banned .so I'll leave it at that.

UrbanFret

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You are, cause you don't like city being questioned.

You are saying city should be 'taking the gloves off' cause the journo asked about dodgy payments.

You're dressing it up as they are doing it to score points, but there are legit questions to be asked and they should be asked. If not at a press conference when do you think it should be?

There has never been any suggestion Pep got dodgy payments so why did he ask that question, just another twisted fkr who cant help himself.

eigrod

UrbanFret wrote: »

Id have thought it was obvious. Anyway any controversial posts and you get banned .so I'll leave it at that.

Why would Rob Harris and Miguel Delaney be wanting to pander to the fanbase you have in mind? Or maybe they’re just doing their jobs as journalists? Harris has an excellent record in that regard, and I hope a corrupt UAE regime won’t change that.

UrbanFret

As for the yemen,maybe the yanks might stop supplying the Saudi led coalition with arms and munitions? Or do the think their playing cowboys and indians with them.

Agent Coulson

Ah it's all the American's fault defence now.

SlickRic

Correlating Fenway with Mansour is predictable and mental in equal measure.

eagle eye

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You are, cause you don't like city being questioned.

You are saying city should be 'taking the gloves off' cause the journo asked about dodgy payments.

You're dressing it up as they are doing it to score points, but there are legit questions to be asked and they should be asked. If not at a press conference when do you think it should be?

I'd like to see independent audits done on every club. I don't think any of them would come up clean.

Mr.H

UrbanFret wrote:

Id have thought it was obvious. Anyway any controversial posts and you get banned .so I'll leave it at that.

Haha so uefa fifa the fa and the premier league are all investigating man city just to appease liverpool fans....

It is in no way anything to do with man city being guilty?

eagle eye

Mr.H wrote: »

Haha so uefa fifa the fa and the premier league are all investigating man city just to appease liverpool fans....

It is in no way anything to do with man city being guilty?

Well UEFA and FIFA should be investigating themselves. Its hypocritical of them to ban anybody for anything dodgy.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Well UEFA and FIFA should be investigating themselves. Its hypocritical of them to ban anybody for anything dodgy.

They definitely shouldn't investigate themselves!

ozzy jr

UrbanFret wrote: »

There has never been any suggestion Pep got dodgy payments so why did he ask that question, just another twisted fkr who cant help himself.

There was never any suggestion Mancini got dodgy payments either, but he did.

eagle eye

Do you remember all the stuff about Alex Ferguson, panorama did a show iirc. Nothing ever came of any of that stuff. Harry Redknapp and his dog is another one I remember well.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you remember all the stuff about Alex Ferguson, panorama did a show iirc. Nothing ever came of any of that stuff. Harry Redknapp and his dog is another one I remember well.

Don't know if there was any suggestion that either was at the instigation of their clubs though. I'm sure if any action was taken against a club in either case it would simply point out that they are not liable for all any every action taken by employees.

The allegations against City are wholly different...save insofar as that is all they are at this stage, allegations. Serious allegations...

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

Don't know if there was any suggestion that either was at the instigation of their clubs though. I'm sure if any action was taken against a club in either case it would simply point out that they are not liable for all any every action taken by employees.

The allegations against City are wholly different...save insofar as that is all they are at this stage, allegations. Serious allegations...

I remember as part of one of the Ferguson things that the club did an investigation and cleared everybody including themselves.
There is no way that all the dodgy stuff that has gone on in the past happened without the knowledge of the owners of the clubs.

brinty

Wow another thread hijacked by Liverpool supporters and them shouting down anyone with an opinion.

Safe to say no need to follow this thread

Benzino

eagle eye wrote: »

I remember as part of one of the Ferguson things that the club did an investigation and cleared everybody including themselves.
There is no way that all the dodgy stuff that has gone on in the past happened without the knowledge of the owners of the clubs.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow what your point is. Are you saying that no investigation should be done because lots of other clubs are all breaking the rules? Or because FIFA/UEFA are corrupt/dodgy?

While I agree that lots of other clubs are probably breaking the rules, there appears to be no real proof of that, and so I'm not sure what UEFA can do. There seems to be evidence to back up the allegations against City, so they should be investigated, otherwise what's the point in even having rules.

And of course UEFA and FIFA are dodgy, but they are hardly going to investigate themselves unless there is outside pressure to do so, which there isn't.

Benzino

brinty wrote: »

Wow another thread hijacked by Liverpool supporters and them shouting down anyone with an opinion.

Safe to say no need to follow this thread

With contributions like this, you will certainly be missed :P

eagle eye

Benzino wrote:

I'm sorry, but I don't follow what your point is. Are you saying that no investigation should be done because lots of other clubs are all breaking the rules? Or because FIFA/UEFA are corrupt/dodgy?

I'm saying it's all hogwash, corrupt people investigating means there'll be nothing done in the end. I'm saying that if they are indeed investigating then go and investigate every club.

Benzino

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm saying it's all hogwash, corrupt people investigating means there'll be nothing done in the end. I'm saying that if they are indeed investigating then go and investigate every club.

They are only investigating it due to the leaks. If there were similar leaks for other clubs, I'm sure they would investigate it too. This isn't a conspiracy against City.

I also believe nothing will be done, perhaps a fine but that's nothing to City.

Mr.H

The funny thing is city fans keep saying the club isnt guilty yet no no explanation is given to any of the stories. I mean are these stories all lies? Do you really think city did everything by the book? Or is it just the belief that every club does it so why are city being victimised?

Then of course there is the allegation that liverpool are obsessed with city...... how often have you heard liverpool fans sing about city? Certainly not every single game and definitely havent seen our players sing about ye. There is no conspiracy. City are being seen for what they are.

eagle eye

Well I don't support any of the big clubs. I'm around long enough to have seen a lot of shady things, and not just with the big clubs either.
I suppose because there are media stories that the powers that be are obliged to investigate. I'm quite confident they will find nothing, well officially anyway.
Then we go back to how it was and we all move on but you'll have idiots throwing it at City fans every now and then because they follow some other big corporation which is a rival to City.

dmigsy

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I don't support any of the big clubs. I'm around long enough to have seen a lot of shady things, and not just with the big clubs either.
I suppose because there are media stories that the powers that be are obliged to investigate. I'm quite confident they will find nothing, well officially anyway.
Then we go back to how it was and we all move on but you'll have idiots throwing it at City fans every now and then because they follow some other big corporation which is a rival to City.

Trump-esque. Say no more. No more evidence or supporting arguments required.

Pure waffle.

givyjoe

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I don't support any of the big clubs. I'm around long enough to have seen a lot of shady things, and not just with the big clubs either.
I suppose because there are media stories that the powers that be are obliged to investigate. I'm quite confident they will find nothing, well officially anyway.
Then we go back to how it was and we all move on but you'll have idiots throwing it at City fans every now and then because they follow some other big corporation which is a rival to City.

They've already found 'something', they're now just deciding on the appropriate punishment.

eigrod

Very good piece from Ken Early

Ken Early: City’s domination has been bought – and they’re paying the price
via The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-city-s-domination-has-been-bought-and-they-re-paying-the-price-1.3897613

citytillidie

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I don't support any of the big clubs. I'm around long enough to have seen a lot of shady things, and not just with the big clubs either.
I suppose because there are media stories that the powers that be are obliged to investigate. I'm quite confident they will find nothing, well officially anyway.
Then we go back to how it was and we all move on but you'll have idiots throwing it at City fans every now and then because they follow some other big corporation which is a rival to City.

They did find something and city have already been punished for that. However UEFA are investigating how much the evidence Man City did provide was true which is what this current investigation is about

LuckyLloyd

eigrod wrote: »

Very good piece from Ken Early

Ken Early: City’s domination has been bought – and they’re paying the price
via The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-city-s-domination-has-been-bought-and-they-re-paying-the-price-1.3897613

He covers all of the aspects well - he could have been writing about the reactions on board.ie specifically when he was talking about counter arguments on social media.

If you’re trying to deflect from this story right now you’re in the wrong camp. Anyone who really loves the game should be shining a light on this.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

...you'll have idiots throwing it at City fans every now and then because they follow some other big corporation which is a rival to City.

Not sure which big rival corporation Der Spiegel follows, maybe use the line about the Germans starting the war...;)

eagle eye

dmigsy wrote:

Trump-esque. Say no more. No more evidence or supporting arguments required.

Your response is one that doesn't want to ask just accuse. I've already mentioned the panorama thing with Ferguson, Harry and his dog.
Wasn't there one done about the current United owners as well? Panorama show that is.

Utopia Parkway

eigrod wrote: »

Very good piece from Ken Early

Ken Early: City’s domination has been bought – and they’re paying the price
via The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-city-s-domination-has-been-bought-and-they-re-paying-the-price-1.3897613

I mean I know City have spent a ton of money. It's well documented. But this part still managed to astound me.

At Wembley, City brought on three substitutes – Kevin de Bruyne, Leroy Sané and John Stones – each of whom would have been the best player in Watford’s team. There’s no magic or mystery about why their squad is so strong. They have a net transfer spend of more than £1.2 billion over the 11 seasons since the 2008 takeover. That’s almost 50 per cent more than their closest rival over that period – the Qatar-funded PSG – and half a billion pounds more than the team in third place, Manchester United.

Football has not seen anything like this before. The closest comparison is with Chelsea after the 2003 Abramovich takeover, but their spending was nowhere near as sustained or comprehensive. Yes, in the 11 seasons from 2003-4 to 2014-15 Chelsea were football’s biggest spenders, but their net outlay of £751 million was only 10 per cent more than City’s in the same period, even though City spent very little between 2003 and 2007. Chelsea’s net spend in those 11 seasons was 64 per cent of the total combined net outlay of Real Madrid and Barcelona, whereas City’s since 2008 is more than Real Madrid’s and Barcelona’s put together.

SlickRic

The complaints around the timing of this are beyond stupid.

1. It's at a press conference. When the fúck else is Rob Harris supposed to ask the question? He can't ring Pep on the fúcking Pep-phone.

2. The concerns around City's finances have been long documented, but don't seem to be hitting home properly with the public. Winning a domestic treble in a farce of a final seems to represent the natural culmination of £1.2bn of net spend over an 11 year period - money which has question marks over it. i would argue that if a journalist wants to make his point and ask a pertinent question about Mansour, then he couldn't have picked a better time. Rob Harris asked about this in November. Anyone remember? Exactly.

Also, Pep didn't answer the question, nor did anyone from City.

For what it's worth, I actually feel sorry for Pep here. There is no reason to believe he has actually received a payment (apart from his terribly angry retort), and he is having to be the one asked these questions because the ownership won't put themselves in a position to be asked the relevant questions.

There are questions to answer. City have used the unlimited wealth at their disposal brilliantly. there's no denying that. none of this is a stain on the players, and how good Pep is at his job. Liverpool aren't winning a title as a result of this, nor would it be welcome at this stage, so for Liverpool fans, it's actually meaningless in terms of last season as to whether City are found guilty. Meh.

but the club is potentially breaking the rules. that's it. and after months, maybe years, of getting no answer to those questions, journalists have felt as though a farcical FA Cup final, confirming City's ridiculous domestic dominance, as the best time to try and get an answer, or at least get a public debate going.

LuckyLloyd

But net spend doesn’t matter, or something.

The reality is that City’s season is another grand catastrophic failure for the one competition they *really* want once again could not be bought. Two years in a row undone by lower table English sides assembled on a relatively humble budget.

eagle eye

The whole ffp thing is nonsense anyway. It's designed to maintain the status quo, keeping the biggest clubs ahead of the rest.
City spend like crazy and dominate and the traditional big clubs are not happy.
If City do it for few more years they will have a huge fan base and be able to compete within the ffp structure.
They'll probably then join the rest and try to stop the next rich owner.

Rob Harris, the journo that dared ask Pep the FFP related question

“The City fans are excessively tribalist in defending their ownership”, Harris said, continuing: “particularly any reporting on Financial Fair Play they see as an agenda or an attack against the club when actually we are doing our job.”

“They think we, as journalists, should deny the public the context around the club and that we should only acclaim performances on the pitch, which of course has been an incredible achievement by the players.”

“[The press are] just providing what is necessary context by saying that these investigations are going on into the club and to not mention that would be a disservice to the context.

Sounds like he's just doing his job.

LuckyLloyd

You’re right in many ways, FFP is about pulling up the drawbridge.

That said, the tyrannical and evil nature of City’s owners make me happy for football to try and bring them to account. If they were forced out of football it would be good for football. Qatar, etc has happened: but no time like the present. We don’t want people responsible for subjugation and pillage of a populace to be using dirty money to fill the trophy cabinets of a football club do we?

bucketybuck

eagle eye wrote: »

If City do it for few more years they will have a huge fan base and be able to compete within the ffp structure.

I don't think so, their fan base will never be anything worth talking about. There is a reason nobody cared about City winning the title but didn't want Liverpool to do it, and buying more trophies won't change that much in my opinion.

Its been ten years now and City still can't sell out their games, they are setting record points totals and doing trebles and still nobody cares because they are all hollow victories.

Thats not just being bitter, thats just reality. It would take decades for City to build the sort of huge fan base that the likes of United, Barca, Liverpool etc have, and trophies alone won't do it, there needs to be some sort of romance there, a romance you don't get from buying your way to success.

rob316

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't think so, their fan base will never be anything worth talking about. There is a reason nobody cared about City winning the title but didn't want Liverpool to do it, and buying more trophies won't change that much in my opinion.

Its been ten years now and City still can't sell out their games, they are setting record points totals and doing trebles and still nobody cares because they are all hollow victories.

Thats not just being bitter, thats just reality. It would take decades for City to build the sort of huge fan base that the likes of United, Barca, Liverpool etc have, and trophies alone won't do it, there needs to be some sort of romance there, a romance you don't get from buying your way to success.

According to their "finances" having a small international fan base has done them no harm. They have commercial revenue similar to United :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Pep has done a fantastic job no doubt, but there is no emotion to the whole thing. No one really cares that City won a treble, I felt numb watching them win the league, that final Saturday was a foregone conclusion it would be 3 or 4 nil atleast. That Amazon doc they did was a good watch but it was so manufactured, flawless and a real PR exercise.

There is just no way possible they are able to attract shirt deals, sponsorship deals as big as the traditional clubs legitimately.

SlickRic

rob316 wrote: »

Pep has done a fantastic job no doubt, but there is no emotion to the whole thing. No one really cares that City won a treble, I felt numb watching them win the league, that final Saturday was a foregone conclusion it would be 3 or 4 nil atleast. That Amazon doc they did was a good watch but it was so manufactured, flawless and a real PR exercise.

There is just no way possible they are able to attract shirt deals, sponsorship deals as big as the traditional clubs legitimately.

nailed it.

i know barely anyone who isn't in awe of what Pep has done, and what those players have done. it's astounding. no matter how the team was put together, it still takes a level of discipline, skill and a little luck in the right places, to do what they've done. and it's exceptional. it is the sport played as brilliantly as you can hope to see it played.

but it's soulless. and the fans know it. just look at that fan who went viral for yelling about Mo Salah as his club garnered more success. you can be impressed all you like, and there's no denying their brilliance. but there is no emotion to any of it. it is a systematic takeover of the game.

and that's why everyone forgot that they won the Premier League the day after they won it.

Morzadec

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't think so, their fan base will never be anything worth talking about. There is a reason nobody cared about City winning the title but didn't want Liverpool to do it, and buying more trophies won't change that much in my opinion.

Its been ten years now and City still can't sell out their games, they are setting record points totals and doing trebles and still nobody cares because they are all hollow victories.

Thats not just being bitter, thats just reality. It would take decades for City to build the sort of huge fan base that the likes of United, Barca, Liverpool etc have, and trophies alone won't do it, there needs to be some sort of romance there, a romance you don't get from buying your way to success.

Interesting perspective to understand why rival fans (you're a United fan I believe?) would have rather had City win the league despite them being the dominant force / the team with everything going for them. Usually it's the underdog, the one "up against it" that gets the neutrals backing, but I can understand this reasoning, the kind of idea that City wins "don't count" or are hollow (and therefore preferable).

I just wonder, how many "hollow" victories will it take before a fan's love of football starts to supersede their tribal rivalries? If City win the next 5 Premier Leagues at a canter (which I think is reasonably possible - 95-100 points will likely be the norm for them under Pep and Liverpool's effort this season was unprecedented), will we all start routing for anyone to break this dominance, regardless of old rivalries, based on the total dominance and inevitability becoming boring, and based on it being on values (artificial money pumped into the club, poor fan culture / atmosphere, lack of history etc...) that don't resonate with those fans, and maybe threaten many of the things we love about the game?

TLDR: How big of a domestic Goliath do City have to become before we all start cheering for David, even if David is our biggest historic rival?

Agent Coulson

In the same length of time City have spent nearly twice as much as PSG a team everyone agrees is as corrupt as it gets.


They have also in that length of time spent twice as much as Man U a club that spend the last 30 years building itself up to be the most self-sufficient money generating team in the world.



Lots of head in sand going on.

See any oil or the buried dead bodies while your down there.

Dr. Bre

Wonder how long until pep gets bored . He must know city don’t compare to Barca and Bayern in terms of history and support but maybe he don’t care. Will he be around as long as Fergie and Wenger?