Football Leaks: UEFA Investigation into Manchester City

PhlegmyMoses

Honestly not sure what point you are arguing here anymore mate. I have no issues with City in the abstract. I do not hate them and don't even know any City supporters.

My issue, is with City (or any other team's) fans arguing about FFP allowing a cabal to form of old money teams. The worm has turned here and City are now the elite who can outpace all other teams financially, whilst there are other restrictions placed on clubs in order to create a competitive league.

My whole point is that we either go down the route of no restrictions, or we accept that there are going to be restrictions to stop some teams from outstripping all others (FFP, collective deals etc).

UrbanFret

The ffp restrictions were a joke to begin with and it's backfired spectacularly as for today's leaks as I suspected its bayern and rumenigge who have been behind this witch hunt all along. The premier league is the attraction it is now because of the rise of city and Chelsea making it competitive . We had 20 years of utd dominance where only them and arsenal had a chance. How attractive was that?

PhlegmyMoses

UrbanFret wrote: »

The ffp restrictions were a joke to begin with and it's backfired spectacularly as for today's leaks as I suspected its bayern and rumenigge who have been behind this witch hunt all along. The premier league is the attraction it is now because of the rise of city and Chelsea making it competitive . We had 20 years of utd dominance where only them and arsenal had a chance. How attractive was that?

Can you acknowledge my point please? United and others are forced into collective deals that they agree to in order to ensure that the league remains competitive. Otherwise, United would be outstripping all other teams even more. How is FFP different? I'm all for a discussion on this, but let's stick to the facts.

UrbanFret

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Can you acknowledge my point please? United and others are forced into collective deals that they agree to in order to ensure that the league remains competitive. Otherwise, United would be outstripping all other teams even more. How is FFP different? I'm all for a discussion on this, but let's stick to the facts.

Utd voted for ffp to keep the status quo so did some of the other teams who will never get a chance to be competitive now, a bit like turkeys voting for Christmas. UTDs reign is over for now at least, no need for the bitterness.

terrydel

Harry Palmr wrote: »

https://twitter.com/iMiaSanMia/status/1058409438850224128



Alleged outline for the clubs, note Founders and Initial Guests!



Regardless of the potential oneupmanship (who's in/who's out), this notion has been floating around for years and the commercial logic is hard to argue against. Presumably it would replace the Champions League and as such wouldn't really impose that much more of a strain as you have to play half a season of matches to win that competition and presumably most teams who compete in it are set up to try to.

Good riddance to them.

TitianGerm

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Can you acknowledge my point please? United and others are forced into collective deals that they agree to in order to ensure that the league remains competitive. Otherwise, United would be outstripping all other teams even more. How is FFP different? I'm all for a discussion on this, but let's stick to the facts.

They wouldn't because the City owners would get their version of RTE to pay ridiculous amounts for the rights to broadcast their games that is well in excess of what the open market would offer them.

PhlegmyMoses

UrbanFret wrote: »

Utd voted for ffp to keep the status quo so did some of the other teams who will never get a chance to be competitive now, a bit like turkeys voting for Christmas. UTDs reign is over for now at least, no need for the bitterness.

Jesus wept. There is no bitterness.

PhlegmyMoses

TitianGerm wrote: »

They wouldn't because the City owners would get their version of RTE to pay ridiculous amounts for the rights to broadcast their games that is well in excess of what the open market would offer them.

So no different from now really. So I am happy for them to be taken to task over FFP.

ozzy jr

Remember when city fans used to come out with, "United are ruining football with all the money". Jeez they've changed their tune now.

"Local club for local fans"

Johnmb

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The premier league is a breakaway league.

It broke away from the Football League, it never broke away from the Football Association. This new proposed league would involve breaking away from both to participate in.

IncognitoMan

Chapter 4: A Global Empire:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/manchester-city-exposed-chapter-4-a-global-empire-a-1236622.html

IncognitoMan

So now two questions must be answered. Just how much did UEFA know about City's financial doping and what are the punishments going to be.

I don't feel confident we'll see a satisfactory result all the same but at least the information is out there now.

UrbanFret

IncognitoMan wrote: »

So now two questions must be answered. Just how much did UEFA know about City's financial doping and what are the punishments going to be.

I don't feel confident we'll see a satisfactory result all the same but at least the information is out there now.

Punishments for what exactly ? Taking advantage of the rules as they were? This is all old news that City have answered and got punished for already. Todays exclusive = City were willing to pay more than Bayern for KDB and rumenigge didn't like it. Boo Fukn Hoo Load of bollox the lot of it.


MEN

IncognitoMan

I think we're going round in circles here but I'll say it again. City weren't punished that's part of the problem. It was in the leak.

The "punishment" they faced suggests that either UEFA didn't know the extend with which they broke the rules or they are corrupt. Take your pick. Part of the leak says they were allowed to pick their own punishment for feck sake. They got away with it, at least at the time.

Every other club played by the rules and ran within their means (an agreement city were happy with) while City gained an unfair advantage behind the scenes. Clubs have every right to be outraged, they lied and cheated their way to success.

Or is that OK?

ERG89

IncognitoMan wrote:

I think we're going round in circles here but I'll say it again. City weren't punished that's part of the problem. It was in the leak.

I haven't been looking but I don't think anything has happened in the last few days to look into it; all involved just want it to blow over before club's return from the International break.

UrbanFret

IncognitoMan wrote: »

I think we're going round in circles here but I'll say it again. City weren't punished that's part of the problem. It was in the leak.

The "punishment" they faced suggests that either UEFA didn't know the extend with which they broke the rules or they are corrupt. Take your pick. Part of the leak says they were allowed to pick their own punishment for feck sake. They got away with it, at least at the time.

Every other club played by the rules and ran within their means (an agreement city were happy with) while City gained an unfair advantage behind the scenes. Clubs have every right to be outraged, they lied and cheated their way to success.

Or is that OK?

Lied and cheated to success. This has nothing to do with the premier league, this is the corrupt organisation that is uefa. The whole FFP mallarkey would have been ripped apart in court had City really wanted to. Any retrospective action by uefa will be challenged this time. Let's see who blinks first.

IncognitoMan

UrbanFret wrote: »

Lied and cheated to success. This has nothing to do with the premier league,

Have City been taking part and gaining money from the Champions League?

UrbanFret wrote: »

this is the corrupt organisation that is uefa.

So you agree that the investigation/punishment likely wasn't right the first time? UEFA are corrupt.

UrbanFret wrote: »

The whole FFP mallarkey would have been ripped apart in court had City really wanted to. Any retrospective action by uefa will be challenged this time. Let's see who blinks first.

Not when they signed up to it. They signed up and went we're too rich to play by the same rules as everyone else. All UEFA has to do is remove the invite to the Champions League and City will soon fall in line. That's if UEFA would act without corruption though.

ozzy jr

Amnesty International on the case now,

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/10/manchester-city-amnesty-international-football-leaks

How embarrassing.

IncognitoMan

More dodgy Man City practices it seems.

Fifa is investigating allegations Manchester City broke rules banning third-party ownership in their links with Danish club FC Nordsjaelland.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46159075?ns_linkname=sport&ns_source=facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_sport

UrbanFret

IncognitoMan wrote: »

More dodgy Man City practices it seems.



https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46159075?ns_linkname=sport&ns_source=facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_sport

More ****e!

ozzy jr

UrbanFret wrote: »

The whole FFP mallarkey would have been ripped apart in court had City really wanted to.

If city were so sure they could have ripped FFP apart in court, why didn't they? Surely it was the better option than cheating?

Drumpot

ozzy jr wrote: »

If city were so sure they could have ripped FFP apart in court, why didn't they? Surely it was the better option than cheating?

When the powers that be don't bother their arse properly enforcing something this is what happens. Lets be honest, nobody is surprised at what is coming out, the only surprise is that anybody is surprised. .

Since these financial practises were effectively endorsed by zero action or investigation, its why people think there shouldn't be any sanctions and actually think City have done nothing wrong. Its like the way dodgy Politicians cant understand people seeing their corrupt morals as an issue. As far as they are concerned its just all part and parcel of the game, the old "don't blame the players, blame the game" defence . .

Its funny actually seeing people compare Chelsea or City's (any Arab owned club) spending with clubs like United or Liverpool who built their clubs on their successes. And then try to legitimise it more by mentioning rich fans like Jake Walker who were fans of the club with no other motive then to see their clubs thrive. Chalk and cheese, but understandable as to why they wouldn't want to acknowledge the seedy reasons the owners bought the respective clubs . .

eagle eye

Personally as somebody who has no agenda, I'm not a fan of any current Premier league club, I don't see any issue with what City are doing.

I think anybody who has the money should be allowed spend it and try and make their club a superpower in football. Just because some clubs have a long history of being successful doesn't mean that somebody else should be stopped from spending to try and outdo them imo.

If City remain at the top for over a decade and win a couple of Champion's league then their profile will grow enormously worldwide and they will become a huge club. They will then be able to compete at the top table without their owners deep pockets.

Spending big money isn't cheating in my book. That is just sour grapes from fans of big clubs who haven't had success for a while.

Drumpot

eagle eye wrote: »

Personally as somebody who has no agenda, I'm not a fan of any current Premier league club, I don't see any issue with what City are doing.

I think anybody who has the money should be allowed spend it and try and make their club a superpower in football. Just because some clubs have a long history of being successful doesn't mean that somebody else should be stopped from spending to try and outdo them imo.

If City remain at the top for over a decade and win a couple of Champion's league then their profile will grow enormously worldwide and they will become a huge club. They will then be able to compete at the top table without their owners deep pockets.

Spending big money isn't cheating in my book. That is just sour grapes from fans of big clubs who haven't had success for a while.

Who said Spending money is cheating ?

Cheating is agreeing to rules (FPP) and then covertly trying to circumvent them. That's cheating .

Buying a football club to in essence make yourself look legitimate is different from a football club being run to build on success.

Being bitter doesn't invalidate the point. .

UrbanFret

eagle eye wrote: »

Personally as somebody who has no agenda, I'm not a fan of any current Premier league club, I don't see any issue with what City are doing.

I think anybody who has the money should be allowed spend it and try and make their club a superpower in football. Just because some clubs have a long history of being successful doesn't mean that somebody else should be stopped from spending to try and outdo them imo.

If City remain at the top for over a decade and win a couple of Champion's league then their profile will grow enormously worldwide and they will become a huge club. They will then be able to compete at the top table without their owners deep pockets.

Spending big money isn't cheating in my book. That is just sour grapes from fans of big clubs who haven't had success for a while.

They get more bitter by the week. Utds reign is over. No more bullying teams into selling them their best players and managers licking fergies arse season after season and their teams bending over to get dicked year after year. Bayern who were behind the leaks are fading too. I don't know of a shop on earth that stops you from spending what you like. I feel sorry for clubs like villa, Newcastle, Leeds etc who can never compete again because of ffp. Only 5 or 6 teams are competive anymore. you will never see another "leicester" again. Thats what ffp has done.

PhlegmyMoses

eagle eye wrote: »

Personally as somebody who has no agenda, I'm not a fan of any current Premier league club, I don't see any issue with what City are doing.

I think anybody who has the money should be allowed spend it and try and make their club a superpower in football. Just because some clubs have a long history of being successful doesn't mean that somebody else should be stopped from spending to try and outdo them imo.

If City remain at the top for over a decade and win a couple of Champion's league then their profile will grow enormously worldwide and they will become a huge club. They will then be able to compete at the top table without their owners deep pockets.

Spending big money isn't cheating in my book. That is just sour grapes from fans of big clubs who haven't had success for a while.

So get rid of collective TV deal? Because it basically achieves the same thing in trying to ensure the league remains competitive.

PhlegmyMoses

UrbanFret wrote: »

They get more bitter by the week. Utds reign is over. No more bullying teams into selling them their best players and managers licking fergies arse season after season and their teams bending over to get dicked year after year. Bayern who were behind the leaks are fading too. I don't know of a shop on earth that stops you from spending what you like. I feel sorry for clubs like villa, Newcastle, Leeds etc who can never compete again because of ffp. Only 5 or 6 teams are competive anymore. you will see another "leicester" again. Thats what ffp has done.

Honestly mate, it is you who has come across as incredibly bitter in this thread, nobody else.

ozzy jr

UrbanFret wrote: »

I feel sorry for clubs like villa, Newcastle, Leeds etc who can never compete again because of ffp.

Do you feel sorry for Everton, Tottenham or any other team who has missed out on the CL because of citys cheating? Or how about Liverpool who have missed out on a possible title or 2 because of citys cheating?

If anything Leicester have shown that you don't need to be backed by an Arab to win the league.

UrbanFret

ozzy jr wrote: »

Do you feel sorry for Everton, Tottenham or any other team who has missed out on the CL because of citys cheating? Or how about Liverpool who have missed out on a possible title or 2 because of citys cheating?

If anything Leicester have shown that you don't need to be backed by an Arab to win the league.

No those clubs voted for it. They can reap what they sowed .

ozzy jr

Good article on the cheating here,

http://www.punditarena.com/features/emackenna/mackenna-monday-class-one-thing-man-city-cannot-buy/

UrbanFret

ozzy jr wrote: »

Good article on the cheating here,

http://www.punditarena.com/features/emackenna/mackenna-monday-class-one-thing-man-city-cannot-buy/

Ha ha! must be a competion to see who can print the most bull**** in one article.

ozzy jr

UrbanFret wrote: »

Ha ha! must be a competion to see who can print the most bull**** in one article.

You're not taking this very well, are you?

Unearthly

UrbanFret wrote: »

They get more bitter by the week. Utds reign is over. No more bullying teams into selling them their best players and managers licking fergies arse season after season and their teams bending over to get dicked year after year. Bayern who were behind the leaks are fading too. I don't know of a shop on earth that stops you from spending what you like. I feel sorry for clubs like villa, Newcastle, Leeds etc who can never compete again because of ffp. Only 5 or 6 teams are competive anymore. you will never see another "leicester" again. Thats what ffp has done.

Leicester happened during ffp years. What on earth are you talking about

eagle eye

Gotta laugh at how nearly every post has the word cheating in it.
You'd swear every other club was completely above board in all areas.

~Rebel~

When it comes down to it, the FFP rules were in place, so regardless of anyones thoughts on those rules, there should be an appropriate response to breaking them.

Personally, I hate the idea of clubs being able to just buy success with money external to their own club-generated income - but I can concede that the gap, for the most part, is too large between the historical superpowers and the rest, so it's really about the only way to break into contention.

The bigger issue though is the risk to the club if one of these deals goes wrong - where the investor backs out, leaving the club to default on massive loans, unable to pay exorbitant player wages, and ultimately going bust. So there should be a middle ground of some sort... if an organization/person wants to fund the club with external money above and beyond the clubs natural income, they should have to put up a personal guarantee against all contracts signed under their watch (effectively guaranteeing, say, 5 years of solvency regardless what happens). This way they can't dump responsibility on the club itself, wash their hands of the whole endeavor, and walk off into the sunset themselves without any liability. When the clubs income rises to cover the entire cost of its outgoings, the personal guarantee can be lifted.

citytillidie

eagle eye wrote: »

Gotta laugh at how nearly every post has the word cheating in it.
You'd swear every other club was completely above board in all areas.

That is because the club you support did it and when the wallet closed they fell back down the divisions

UrbanFret

Unearthly wrote: »

Leicester happened during ffp years. What on earth are you talking about

I'm saying that a leicester will never happen again.

theoneeyedman

UrbanFret wrote: »

I'm saying that a leicester will never happen again.

Didn't Leicester cheat on the FFP when getting promoted to the EPL from the Championship?

The main point is being missed here, in that the owners of City are using hundred of millions of laundered cash to whitewash the reputation of their despotic regime in UAE. The City club is just a pawn really in this. One would have some sympathy for the fans who have followed City all their lives, and now see this evil regime take their club over and use it to look like nice guys. I'd have less sympathy for the idiots who can't/won't see what is happening, and go on social media and the likes to defend the UAE rulers.

~Rebel~

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Didn't Leicester cheat on the FFP when getting promoted to the EPL from the Championship?

The main point is being missed here, in that the owners of City are using hundred of millions of laundered cash to whitewash the reputation of their despotic regime in UAE. The City club is just a pawn really in this. One would have some sympathy for the fans who have followed City all their lives, and now see this evil regime take their club over and use it to look like nice guys. I'd have less sympathy for the idiots who can't/won't see what is happening, and go on social media and the likes to defend the UAE rulers.

Yes, but what can you really do about that? I mean, there is the "fit and proper persons test", but considering some of the tolks that have passed it, I've no idea what you have to do to fail!

Ideally, that test would be properly implemented and actually be used as some sort of 'moral barrier' to stop the worst of the worst from doing that, but once they're in, what can ya really do?

theoneeyedman

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yes, but what can you really do about that? I mean, there is the "fit and proper persons test", but considering some of the tolks that have passed it, I've no idea what you have to do to fail!

Ideally, that test would be properly implemented and actually be used as some sort of 'moral barrier' to stop the worst of the worst from doing that, but once they're in, what can ya really do?

Yea, probably SFA you can do. There are many owners in the EPL who are dodgy characters.... I won't pick up a yellow card here by naming any of them, but some wild have criminal links and shady pasts, while others of major clubs take or have taken many millions OUT of the clubs for their own uses/own business uses. Maybe the ship has sailed, and many don't give a sh1t. Certainly looks like the UAE/Man City project is working well off the field as well as on it, given how vociferous many City fans are in defending their Arab overlords.

ozzy jr

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Certainly looks like the UAE/Man City project is working well off the field as well as on it, given how vociferous many City fans are in defending their Arab overlords.

This is the saddest part in the whole sorry tale. Dangle a bit of silverware in front of most football fans and all morals go out the window.

UrbanFret

ozzy jr wrote: »

This is the saddest part in the whole sorry tale. Dangle a bit of silverware in front of most football fans and all morals go out the window.

So it wasn't ffp that was annoying you at all, why didn't you say it was a human rights issue.

Guy:Incognito

UrbanFret wrote: »

I'm saying that a leicester will never happen again.

3 years ago you'd have said it'd never happen once.

It did. And it could happen again. It's unlikely but theres not impossible.

Agent Coulson

Nothing will come of this as UEFA & FIFA are as corrupt as any organization in the world and will take another pay off from Qatar to make it go away.

eagle eye

citytillidie wrote:

That is because the club you support did it and when the wallet closed they fell back down the divisions

It's got nothing to do with who I support. I'm saying that there is no innocent club in the Premier league. They all have their secrets.
Either through naivety or just plain jealously there are people on here using the word cheat when we will find if we look hard enough that there is some form of cheating going on at every club.

~Rebel~

eagle eye wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with who I support. I'm saying that there is no innocent club in the Premier league. They all have their secrets.
Either through naivety or just plain jealously there are people on here using the word cheat when we will find if we look hard enough that there is some form of cheating going on at every club.

I'm sure you're right, but I'm not sure what the one thing has to do with the other...

Yes other clubs might well be doing things wrong too, but that doesn't make what City have done any less of a cheat. There are rules. They broke those rules to gain a sporting advantage. Cheat seems a valid description. It's sort of irrelevant that it could also describe other clubs actions in other scenarios...

ozzy jr

UrbanFret wrote: »

So it wasn't ffp that was annoying you at all, why didn't you say it was a human rights issue.

There's different levels of sh!t in this story.

PhlegmyMoses

eagle eye wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with who I support. I'm saying that there is no innocent club in the Premier league. They all have their secrets.
Either through naivety or just plain jealously there are people on here using the word cheat when we will find if we look hard enough that there is some form of cheating going on at every club.

Then investigate those clubs too??? Who is advocating against that? I hate this type of whataboutery. I am happy for all clubs to be compliant with all rules and laws thanks.

rob316

No way is every club compliant especially the top clubs. City are an easy target imo, they've spent a lot but done it well.

Other clubs can't compete with them not because of resources but how well run man city are. They played a mid term game of installing pep and putting a structure in place around him so he couldn't fail. The manager knows exactly how he wants them to play and what players needed to execute it.
They are an absolute joy to watch and have brought some super footballers to the premier league adding value to it.

Drumpot

eagle eye wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with who I support. I'm saying that there is no innocent club in the Premier league. They all have their secrets.
Either through naivety or just plain jealously there are people on here using the word cheat when we will find if we look hard enough that there is some form of cheating going on at every club.

I think I get what you are saying..

We have all had impure or corrupted thoughts at one time in our lives so in many ways we are all as guilty as each other.