Cost-Effective, High-Functionality, User-Friendly Replacement for Pay TV

The high horse brigade

Do you have a link to the dongle?

Johnboy1951

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Do you have a link to the dongle?

It has an Afatech 9015/9013 chipset ...... and those dongles are old.
It was the first one I bought many years ago, and continues to work to this day.
I doubt there are any new ones made currently.

NewClareman

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It has an Afatech 9015/9013 chipset ...... and those dongles are old.

Well spotted! It is at least 8 years old and doesn't even have windows 10 drivers. Cost a couple of euro.

There are plenty of Realtek ones on Amazon, for around a tenner.

Johnboy1951

NewClareman wrote: »

Well spotted! It is at least 8 years old and doesn't even have windows 10 drivers. Cost a couple of euro.

There are plenty of Realtek ones on Amazon, for around a tenner.

If memory serves it was one of the first dongles to be supported on Linux - I recall waiting for about 18 months for support to reach the kernel.

I have since used the Realtek dongles ..... great fun if you have a radio aerial.
There is even a radio app for them (browser related) which includes full band use (depending on the dongle) .... SW, LW, MW, FM, SSB etc etc




https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/radio-receiver/miieomcelenidlleokajkghmifldohpo?hl=en

Tony

I use a play tv tuner, it allow you to record both Saorview Muxes at the same time, appears as two tuners in the set up menu of my current image.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/ps3-PLAY-TV-Disc-Tuner-Freeview-TV-on-your-PS3-Watch-Pause-Record-View/192747393620?hash=item2ce0a3d254:g:GJAAAOSwg-tcBou9:rk:2:pf:0

trabpc

So how many channels can you now record on saorview at once?

Johnboy1951

trabpc wrote: »

So how many channels can you now record on saorview at once?

With two tuners the limitation would be hardware ...... can the components of the device handle all that data concurrently? HDD writing speed for instance.
So theoretically all broadcast channels could be recorded concurrently, while watching any one of them.

NewClareman

trabpc wrote: »

So how many channels can you now record on saorview at once?

I recorded 4 terrestrial channels, 3 satellite, and watched a 5th terrestrial. I use a PVR grade internal HDD, and recorded each channel for over an hour. I skimmed through the recordings last night, and all seemed grand.

Funny enough, PIP using the second terrestrial tuner is very jittery, particularly on sports.

Johnboy1951

NewClareman wrote: »

I recorded 4 terrestrial channels, 3 satellite, and watched a 5th terrestrial. I use a PVR grade internal HDD, and recorded each channel for over an hour. I skimmed through the recordings last night, and all seemed grand.

Funny enough, PIP using the second terrestrial tuner is very jittery, particularly on sports.

It might also affect things if the channels are all (or most) in full HD ... bigger data rates.

I wonder if that affects PIP also?

Tipsy McSwagger

Got one of these boxes today and a bit lost now. I did a full channel scan and now have loads of sky channels that can’t be viewed. Is there an easy way just to get the free to air channels in a nice little set up.

The high horse brigade

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Got one of these boxes today and a bit lost now. I did a full channel scan and now have loads of sky channels that can’t be viewed. Is there an easy way just to get the free to air channels in a nice little set up.

It's much easier for us to support and troubleshoot if you flash one of the members images to your box. See the first post of this thread and my own image and flashing guide is here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057827739/11/#post106783394

cuculainn

The high horse brigade wrote: »

It's much easier for us to support and troubleshoot if you flash one of the members images to your box. See the first post of this thread and my own image and flashing guide is here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057827739/11/#post106783394

Hi,

I have one of these boxes waiting for me at home. hoping to have it set up for the Christmas. I am waiting for a HDD to arrive.
Am i better to wait and flash it when i have the HDD installed or can i do the flash now and add the HDD when it arrives?

Also whose image would you recommend, THHBs or NCMs?
Obviously i expect ye to be biased in one direction or another!!

NewClareman

cuculainn wrote: »

Hi,

I have one of these boxes waiting for me at home. hoping to have it set up for the Christmas. I am waiting for a HDD to arrive.
Am i better to wait and flash it when i have the HDD installed or can i do the flash now and add the HDD when it arrives?

Also whose image would you recommend, THHBs or NCMs?
Obviously i expect ye to be biased in one direction or another!!

There’s no harm in flashing immediately, to start getting familiar with it. In regard to which image,that really depends on what you want to achieve. THHB’s image is a great general purpose image and is where I started. If you want to dig under the bonnet and get to know all about enigma2, it’s a brilliant starting point. My image is specifically designed for general family use. It has been made as easy to use as possible, for users with high expectations for ease of use. It is heavily customized, based on extensive feedback from family and other users. Most settings are locked down and it would probably frustrate technically proficient “twiddlers”.

cuculainn

NewClareman wrote: »

There’s no harm in flashing immediately, to start getting familiar with it. In regard to which image,that really depends on what you want to achieve. THHB’s image is a great general purpose image and is where I started. If you want to dig under the bonnet and get to know all about enigma2, it’s a brilliant starting point. My image is specifically designed for general family use. It has been made as easy to use as possible, for users with high expectations for ease of use. It is heavily customized, based on extensive feedback from family and other users. Most settings are locked down and it would probably frustrate technically proficient “twiddlers”.

Thanks NCM, I suppose there's nothing stopping me from flashing one and trying it and then flashing another?

I am a definite twiddler, but might not have the time for it at the moment!!

SportsJess

Hi,
I am new to Boards and this thread, but have been reading for few days – NCM, THHB and GW you guys have done great job. I have one of these boxes from WOS and comes with OpenATV 6.2 and no int HDD. I already started twiddling with it, but results so far are not great: lots of channels not easy to browse and can only view ‘Last Scanned’ for some reason. I now would like to use NCM or THHB custom build/image and would appreciate your help in this, starting with:

1. To install one of the builds, do I always start with the flashing process described by NCM ? Would you recommend another way given I already have OpenATV 6.2?

2. I am about to install a 500GB internal HDD; would you recommend doing this before or after flashing?

3. Do I need the box connected to the internet for the installation? Currently I don’t have a network cable, only a WiFi connectivity using a mini 150Mbps USB-WiFi dongle but, as you flagged, not very stable.

4. Do I have to do a new scan (satellite and terrestrial) once installation is complete? if so, would you recommend auto/manual scan – only have one cable from dish to Tuner A (LNB1 IN), feedthrough cable from LNB1 OUT to LNB2 IN, and aerial cable to ANT IN.

Sorry for the long list of Qs, I am really hoping to get it sorted for Christmas with your kind help – thanks.

swoofer

1. Yes, when you flash the high horse image it overwrites the existing and its a very good image for beginners, read the thread if you can find the time as all your questions that you may have will have been answered. There is no other way unless you want to build an image yourself.

2. yes put in hdd first and for best results you should use a usb stick as well, about 8gb for picons etc.

3. NO. If you want to use a dongle get a good one ie this one vu+ wireless look on amazon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VU-300-Mbps-Wireless-Adapter-Adaptors-black/dp/B00AFX847S/ref=sr_1_2?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1544705154&sr=8-2&keywords=vu%2B+wireless

4. No all the channels will be there. All you scan is the DTT ones as you may be in a different area from THB.

5. I would not do a loop through yet as my understanding of loop through is that its for another sat box. I'll ask a separate question as you must have seen it somewhere!! NB dont use loop through!!

One final tip if you read the thread carefully and make a few notes it will help you no end. Once you have image working do a backup and it will give you options to save to usb or HDD. Save to a USB as in time the reason willl be obivious. You can aslo save to HDD and if you do make a c...k up you can revert back so do a backup fairly frequently.

SportsJess

swoofer wrote: »

1. Yes, when you flash the high horse image it overwrites the existing and its a very good image for beginners, read the thread if you can find the time as all your questions that you may have will have been answered. There is no other way unless you want to build an image yourself.

2. yes put in hdd first and for best results you should use a usb stick as well, about 8gb for picons etc.

3. NO. If you want to sue a dongle get a good one ie this one vu+ wireless look on amazon


4. No all the channels will be there. All you scan is the DTT ones as you may be in a different area from THB.

5. I would not do a loop through yet as my understanding of loop through is that its for another sat box. I'll ask a separate question as you must have seen it somewhere!! NB dont use loop through!!

One final tip if you read the thread carefully and make a few notes it will help you no end. Once you have image working do a backup and it will give you options to save to usb or HDD. Save to a USB as in time the reason willl be obivious. You can aslo save to HDD and if you do make a c...k up you can revert back so do a backup fairly frequently.

===================
Thanks for your kind reply swoofer and tips - much appreciated. Just to clarify:

3. Does your NO means no internet connection is needed to complete the full installation?

5. The box I am talking about is the Tiviar AlphaPlus triple-tuner receiver, and according to the original manual of the box (link posted by NewClareman previously), in 2.2 Satellite Dish Connection:

"Connect the cable from the satellite dish to LNB IN of TUNER 1. In most situations, connect LNB OUT of TUNER 1 to LNB IN of TUNER 2 using the loop-through cable. Only when two satellite dishes are available without any multi-dish switch, users should connect the cable from the other dish to LNB IN of TUNER 2." ??

swoofer

You dont need an internet connection to set up box. When you mentioned dongle I thought it a good idea to use one that actually works properly.

I know its the Tiviar alpha plus and when you load the THB image you must forget about that manual. This box was originally launched a few years ago with a proprietary operating system but never really took off. Some clever people devised a bootloader that would allow it to run on enigma 2 images, ie openatv etc. The instructions for enigma 2 wont be the same as that manual so ignore.

Out of curiousity I will try loop out on the tiviar and see what it does if anything and report back.

Gerry Wicklow

@swoofer As i tried to explain in your other thread, the output loop will be controlled by whatever band and polarity tuner 1 is watching. This means that you will only have a limited range of channels available on the loop which will change as tuner 1 changes channel. Trying to keep track of what would be available to tuner 2 at any particular moment would be a nightmare. That is why I reckon it is not worth the hassle.

@SportsJess If you only have one feed from the dish to the box it is essential to go into the tuner setup and disable tuner 2 otherwise you will get failed recordings and EPG download errors.

swoofer

I know but when you look in the original manual for the tiviar manual it makes a specific reference to loop through and after having another read it still makes no sense.

I tried that loop out and a waste of time.

SportsJess

Thanks again @swoofer, thanks @ Gerry Wicklow, this is going to be a steep learning curve so please bear with me a little more guys and I sure will get there.

When I asked about internet connection I really meant whether I need any wire/wireless network connection between the box and my LAN to install the picon folder on the HDD (having read ‘Connect to the box in your web browser using it's IP’ and use of ‘Webif’, ‘Samba’ and ‘Filezilla’ in @THHB’;s and @ NewClareman’s installation instructions, or is it my misunderstanding again) ?

I will remove the loop-through cable and disable tuner 2 or tuner B (and I guess I need a new scan), @Gerry Wicklow I guess that would not stop me watching one channel and recording 1-2 others at the same time?

Gerry Wicklow

SportsJess wrote: »

Thanks again @swoofer, thanks @ Gerry Wicklow, this is going to be a steep learning curve so please bear with me a little more guys and I sure will get there.

When I asked about internet connection I really meant whether I need any wire/wireless network connection between the box and my LAN to install the picon folder on the HDD (having read ‘Connect to the box in your web browser using it's IP’ and use of ‘Webif’, ‘Samba’ and ‘Filezilla’ in @THHB’;s and @ NewClareman’s installation instructions, or is it my misunderstanding again) ?

I will remove the loop-through cable and disable tuner 2 or tuner B (and I guess I need a new scan), @Gerry Wicklow I guess that would not stop me watching one channel and recording 1-2 others at the same time?

Having your box connected to your local network makes life an awful lot easier both in terms of set up but also updating. The main issue I found with wireless dongles is that they are erratic for demanding tasks such as streaming HD. For less demanding tasks like using Webif or transferring small picon files it's not so much of an issue. Although not essential for daily use, internet access also adds a lot more useful functions.
By default, if you are watching a channel on tuner A and a recording is due, the box tries to use tuner B for the recording. Likewise it prefers tuner B to download the EPG data. If it is not connected and disabled in the settings, the box knows to use tuner A for the above. If you are watching a conflicting channel it will warn you it needs to switch to the other channel to record. It will then switch automatically.
There shouldn't be any need to rescan if you disable tuner B. The normal setting for a two cable setup is the make "Tuner B = Tuner A". That way they share the same database of channel details and know the status of each other. (if that makes sense)

EDIT: Regarding multiple recordings at once. Using a single cable means you only ever have access to a quarter of the channels at any moment. For example, if you were watching/recording a Film 4 movie (low band Horizontal), you could not watch/record BBC2 (low band vertical) at the same time.

SportsJess

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Having your box connected to your local network makes life an awful lot easier both in terms of set up but also updating. The main issue I found with wireless dongles is that they are erratic for demanding tasks such as streaming HD. For less demanding tasks like using Webif or transferring small picon files it's not so much of an issue. Although not essential for daily use, internet access also adds a lot more useful functions.
By default, if you are watching a channel on tuner A and a recording is due, the box tries to use tuner B for the recording. Likewise it prefers tuner B to download the EPG data. If it is not connected and disabled in the settings, the box knows to use tuner A for the above. If you are watching a conflicting channel it will warn you it needs to switch to the other channel to record. It will then switch automatically.
There shouldn't be any need to rescan if you disable tuner B. The normal setting for a two cable setup is the make "Tuner B = Tuner A". That way they share the same database of channel details and know the status of each other. (if that makes sense)

EDIT: Regarding multiple recordings at once. Using a single cable means you only ever have access to a quarter of the channels at any moment. For example, if you were watching/recording a Film 4 movie (low band Horizontal), you could not watch/record BBC2 (low band vertical) at the same time.

============
Great help @ Gerry Wicklow.

I already have a quad LNB on my dish, so I guess I would be better off attaching another cable to connect to tuner B IN, and use the 'Tuner B = Tuner A' configuration, right.

Also, excuse my slow following: so I would still need a network connection to install the picon files to the HDD, right. Currently, I do not have one and it wont be easy to run one to the room where the Tiviar box is in.

Gerry Wicklow

The second LNB cable is always the best option.

Without a network connection you would need to unplug the HDD and connect it to a PC that understands the Linux ext4 file system. Windows PCs do not understand ext4 without extra software. I'm not sure about Apple.
If you can get the wireless network dongle to work you will be able to access the box using your PC and transfer files, settings etc. By using the network connection it doesn't matter what make of PC / laptop / tablet you have as you are using web protocols instead. Another option for a network connection is by using home network plugs that use your house wiring for the network. They work almost as well as a direct cable and far better than wireless. The Argos one is purely an example of what I mean, you might get better elsewhere.

Gerry Wicklow

BTW once connected to your network you would be able to watch live or recorded content on anything with a web browser anywhere on your home network. Webif also allows you to view / search the EPG. Set timers and lots more.
Don't lose too much sleep over picons. They are not essential and are merely pretty pictures of the channel logos to make the EPG look nicer.

MenloPete

SportsJess wrote: »

============

Also, excuse my slow following: so I would still need a network connection to install the picon files to the HDD, right. Currently, I do not have one and it wont be easy to run one to the room where the Tiviar box is in.

Of course, if it's just a job like transferring picons, you could bring the Tiviar box to the modem location and establish a (temporary, short) wired connection to do that job.

SportsJess

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

BTW once connected to your network you would be able to watch live or recorded content on anything with a web browser anywhere on your home network. Webif also allows you to view / search the EPG. Set timers and lots more.
Don't lose too much sleep over picons. They are not essential and are merely pretty pictures of the channel logos to make the EPG look nicer.

=================
Great help GW – have not started anything yet, but will get things prepared to work on this weekend.

BTW, I know this question has been asked before, but what you think would be best build for me THHB or NCM: from the outset, I like NCM’s general family use build but a little bit worried about the settings being heavily customised and locked for future adjustments.

Also, the picture quality I get from the box at the moment is not great – nowhere close to that I used to get with the sky+ box, is this expected? Others on this thread indicated impressive quality and wonder whether some of my video settings of the box, for example, are not right for example? Is yours good, would you or any of the group mind sharing a view of your video setting? Thanks.

sligojoek

SportsJess wrote: »

=================
Great help GW – have not started anything yet, but will get things prepared to work on this weekend.

BTW, I know this question has been asked before, but what you think would be best build for me THHB or NCM: from the outset, I like NCM’s general family use build but a little bit worried about the settings being heavily customised and locked for future adjustments.

Also, the picture quality I get from the box at the moment is not great – nowhere close to that I used to get with the sky+ box, is this expected? Others on this thread indicated impressive quality and wonder whether some of my video settings of the box, for example, are not right for example? Is yours good, would you or any of the group mind sharing a view of your video setting? Thanks.

Have you the output set to 1080? The picture on mine is fantastic.

Gerry Wicklow

NCM has put a lot of work into that image to suit the family wants. I worry it has gone too far in customising to personal tastes. Maybe for someone with a bit of experience in enigma it would be worth a try as they would know how to tweak it again to their own tastes.
THHBs image seems to be nearer to defaults which I think is a far better starting point for a new user.
One of the greatest features of enigma is the ability to make backups of both your user settings and a full copy of your image. These are quickly and easily made and just as easy to restore. You could try THHBs image, tweak it to your location and personal taste, and then make a backup. Then give NCMs image a try. If you don't like it, you can go back to your version of THHBs within 5 minutes. Alternatively, you could try a clean default install and use your backed up settings to personalise your own image. In each case it only takes a few minutes to swap around or undo anything. Every time you make a backup of your settings or full image, the file names are date stamped so you would know which was which.

As for picture quality, I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between Sky and enigma. The best guess I could make is perhaps the box is not set to 1080P HD under MENU>SETUP>VIDEO

NewClareman

SportsJess wrote: »

Hi,
I am new to Boards and this thread, but have been reading for few days – NCM, THHB and GW you guys have done great job. I have one of these boxes from WOS and comes with OpenATV 6.2 and no int HDD. I already started twiddling with it, but results so far are not great: lots of channels not easy to browse and can only view ‘Last Scanned’ for some reason. I now would like to use NCM or THHB custom build/image and would appreciate your help in this, starting with:

Welcome to Boards. It is an amazing community with a large community of, often very opinionated, users. Don't take everything you read as gospel, on this, or any other, thread. Contributors are posting on a personal capacity, based on their individual experience.

SportsJess wrote: »

Hi,

1. To install one of the builds, do I always start with the flashing process described by NCM ? Would you recommend another way given I already have OpenATV 6.2?

This is currently the only way of flashing the THHB and NCM custom builds. (Either could be made available on a custom feed, for downloading directly, but that is well beyond the scope of what I set out to do.)

SportsJess wrote: »

2. I am about to install a 500GB internal HDD; would you recommend doing this before or after flashing?

Absolutely, install the internal HDD, first. I see no reason to install the picons on an external USB drive. (The only exception is if you cannot connect the box to a network, during the setup phase.) I have used the picons on the internal HDD for a number of months, without issue. This is also the approach taken by all commercial builds.

SportsJess wrote: »

Hi,
3. Do I need the box connected to the internet for the installation? Currently I don’t have a network cable, only a WiFi connectivity using a mini 150Mbps USB-WiFi dongle but, as you flagged, not very stable.

SportsJess wrote: »

============
Also, excuse my slow following: so I would still need a network connection to install the picon files to the HDD, right. Currently, I do not have one and it wont be easy to run one to the room where the Tiviar box is in.

That WiFi connection will suffice to transfer the picons, as per post 11. I used it myself, for that very purpose, without issue.

For regular use I would recommend a wired connection, or Home Network Plugs, as suggested by GerryWicklow.

If you must use WiFi, I would suggest using a Vonets VAP11G-300 Wireless Bridge. The link is only a suggestion, a google search gives cheaper suppliers. I used the previous generation of this for a number of years, with the Humax Foxsat Freesat box.

(There is a stability issue with recent versions of Enigma2, on the Tiviar AlphaPlus, with Wireless dongles. I have evaluated three versions, on three differnet enigma builds, all exhibit the same behaviour. It does not appear to be related to heat, or signal strength. Based on this, I couldn't recommend their use, for streaming content.)

SportsJess wrote: »

Hi,
4. Do I have to do a new scan (satellite and terrestrial) once installation is complete? if so, would you recommend auto/manual scan – only have one cable from dish to Tuner A (LNB1 IN), feedthrough cable from LNB1 OUT to LNB2 IN, and aerial cable to ANT IN.

SportsJess wrote: »

I will remove the loop-through cable and disable tuner 2 or tuner B (and I guess I need a new scan), @Gerry Wicklow I guess that would not stop me watching one channel and recording 1-2 others at the same time?

You may need to do a Terrestrial Scan, if the Terrestrial Stations are not visible. The process is outlined in post 108.

You have the correct connection for single cable operation - i.e. feedthrough cable from LNB1 OUT to LNB2 IN. It will not cause any problems with my image and tuner 2 does not need to be disabled. However, with legacy LNB's it does limit what you can watch, as per post 142.

With only one tuner connected to a legacy LNB, you will be able to watch/record two satellite channels, on the same transponder. With the loop connected (LNB1 OUT => LNB 2) you will be able to watch/record three satellite channels, on any two transponders, within the same satellite band. With the current channel allocations on satellite, you can watch/record BB1/BBC2 and UTV.*

If you've got decent satellite cable run in, youve got a number of options, as outlined in post 154. Personally, I wouldnt run in a second cable, unless it was a trival task. I'd either replace the legacy LNB with a Unicable one or feed the existing LNB to a multiswitch, with a Unicable output. The simplest solution is simply to switch your legacy LNB for a Unicable one.

*In general the use of a legacy LNB, with one cable is very restrictive. Satellite channels are hosted on transponders on satellites, each transponder being identified by a specific frequency and polarization. Without the loop cable, you will be able to watch channels on one transponder only, at a time. Look at Transponder 41 (10714 H), on this chart. If tuner 1 is set to that transponder, the only channels that can be watched/recorded are two of: Channel 4, Film 4, More 4+1, E4. With the loop cable, the second tuner can access any transponder within the same satellite band as that of tuner A. That means the same polarity, in this case Horizontal (H). It also means the same frequency band, LO or High, with a breakpoint of 11700. In this case you are restricted to the LO Band, as 10714 falls within this.

SportsJess wrote: »

BTW, I know this question has been asked before, but what you think would be best build for me THHB or NCM: from the outset, I like NCM’s general family use build but a little bit worried about the settings being heavily customised and locked for future adjustments.

The build settings are only locked for the causal, or family, user. They are all accessible via the pin.

As per post 60; My image is best suited for people who want a replacement TV box, with a low learning curve. Note that the low learning curve applies equally to the installer and the user. This custom build is in use in multiple homes, with excellent feedback. I printed out the remote guides, in colour, and laminated them. It makes the transition as painless as possible.

(In my opinion, the usability of any general build is very poor as a general purpose family device. Not only is the usability curve steep, but many technical functions, some of which could be problematic to adjust, are available on a single button press. The feedback I got from family and friends was pretty straight, they wanted it out and go back to pay TV. The developers, rightly, gave the ability to address issues such as these, via configuration. Using that capability, I have tried to create a custom build that is closer to normal commercial products for consumers.)