Pakistan.

green shoots

I really love what they're planning to do with trees in Pakistan though, hopefully they follow through

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/pakistan-to-plant-10-billion-trees-in-bid-to-combat-climate-change-a3904961.html

wonder it be wonderful if we could do something similar here?

MadYaker

It always find it odd that their country is so messed up when most of the guys that are over here have a work ethic that would put the germans to shame. I think corruption is endemic at all levels of government and society and thats a big part of the problem. It worries me that they have nukes. Obama is on record saying that Pakistans nukes were the one thing that kept him up at night. I think the US government used to keep fairly close tabs on the nuclear program via spies but since they killed Bin Laden that has gotten a lot more diffcult.

Roger Hassenforder

Based and Red Pilled wrote: »

Sorry we only take Muslims and African economic migrants in Europe.

They look Muslimy though

Richard Hillman

Mooooo wrote: »

Like a lot of countries you'd wonder how they would have turned out if the colonial powers that invaded them didn't leave the place in ****e when when they left. A few years ago BBC news did a short piece on the conflict between India and Pakistan spanning 50+ years but conveniently didn't go back to when mountbatten pulled the troops out leaving people displaced all over the shop

Without colonialism, they'd still be chucking Spears at each other.

If the colonial powers didn't leave the way they did, it would have been years and years of false prophets running around telling everybody that everything will be great as soon as the colonisers are gone, there will be a million "Free <insert region> Protests", the colonisers will back off and they'll end up screwing the country up themselves.

There is a reason why these countries were colonised and they were not the colonisers

MadYaker

I wouldn't say it's a failed state though. They have a (poorly) functioning government, education system, Justice system etc etc. Somalia is an example of a true failed state.

Mooooo

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Without colonialism, they'd still be chucking Spears at each other.

If the colonial powers didn't leave the way they did, it would have been years and years of false prophets running around telling everybody that everything will be great as soon as the colonisers are gone, there will be a million "Free <insert region> Protests", the colonisers will back off and they'll end up screwing the country up themselves.

There is a reason why these countries were colonised and they were not the colonisers

Bollix to that last statement anyway. The colonisers went in to take what they could including people, for the good of the crown, empire etc. . Majority of countries were left in **** by the British, French, Spanish etc. Instead of a planned transition mountbatten pulled them out too quickly after fcuking up the continent in the first place. There were different religions then fighting for what the British took off them in the first place. All the colonial powers ended delaying those countries own internal affairs and has a lot of them in **** to this day.

FTA69

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Without colonialism, they'd still be chucking Spears at each other.

If the colonial powers didn't leave the way they did, it would have been years and years of false prophets running around telling everybody that everything will be great as soon as the colonisers are gone, there will be a million "Free <insert region> Protests", the colonisers will back off and they'll end up screwing the country up themselves.

There is a reason why these countries were colonised and they were not the colonisers

Jog on with that nonsense. Colonialism happened because some countries were strong enough to rob weaker countries blind (us included) and they did so solely to enrich the elites of Britain, France, Belgium et al. It didn’t happen because other countries were ‘in need of civilisation’ or other such bollix. Colonial forces often displayed a far greater inhumanity and savagery than the silly natives who were being conquered; British colonialism in India impoverished and dismantled and a prosperous place; in the Congo the Belgians systematically brutalised the country to the point the inhabitants were worked to death in the forests harvesting rubber so King Leopold could build palaces while masquerading as a good Christian missionary.

Colonialism wrecked our own country, the fact you’re an Irish fella seal clapping for it is evidence enough of the damage it did.

imme

The recent protests cost the country $1.2bn in damage.

The state agreed with religious groups that she cannot leave the country.

Her lawyer has fled Pakistan reportedly.

I won't be going to Pakistan on my holidays.

Odhinn

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Without colonialism, they'd still be chucking Spears at each other.

If the colonial powers didn't leave the way they did, it would have been years and years of false prophets running around telling everybody that everything will be great as soon as the colonisers are gone, there will be a million "Free <insert region> Protests", the colonisers will back off and they'll end up screwing the country up themselves.

There is a reason why these countries were colonised and they were not the colonisers

One of the most ignorant posts I've been unfortunate enough to read.

Richard Hillman

Why were countries, even smaller countries like Belgium, able to colonise much larger lands and populations? Why were they more powerful?

FTA69

On the topic of Pakistan, the type of mad Islam being advocated there is a very, very new thing and is markedly distinct from the Islam being practiced there for the past thousand years dating back to the Mughals.

On Netflix there’s a show called Amongst the Believers about how this Salafist sh*t took off there. Massive Saudi investment into education there in the form of Madrassahs (Islamic schools) facilitating extremism; they offered free school places to boys from families who couldn’t afford the state school fees. Such to the point hundreds of thousands of people came out of these institutions radicalised and ended up forming an insurrectionary subculture.

I’m forever saying it, but whether it’s to do without East London or Pakistan or Morocco it comes back to the same source - f*cking Gulf oil money and Erdogan’s Turkey. But yet our governments are utterly determined to kiss their arses. That’s the row that needs to be had.

Odhinn

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why were countries, even smaller countries like Belgium, able to colonise much larger lands and populations? Why were they more powerful?

...because they had advanced technology. Shooting men armed with sticks by way of a maxim machine gun is not the bravest or noblest of endeavours.

Richard Hillman

Odhinn wrote: »

...because they had advanced technology. Shooting men armed with sticks by way of a maxim machine gun is not the bravest or noblest of endeavours.

Why did they have more advanced technology?

FTA69

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why were countries, even smaller countries like Belgium, able to colonise much larger lands and populations? Why were they more powerful?

Because the Belgians were facilitated by other European countries who saw the colonisation of Africa as a handy number. Europe industrialised and developed rapidly for a variety of reasons, chief amongst of which was the massive capital injection from the wholesale looting of gold and silver from South America.

wexie

FTA69 wrote: »

Colonial forces often displayed a far greater inhumanity and savagery than the silly natives who were being conquered;

Ah but that's okay, it was inhumanity and savagery in the name of God, King and country so entirely excusable....

:rolleyes:

FTA69

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why were countries, even smaller countries like Belgium, able to colonise much larger lands and populations? Why were they more powerful?

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why were countries, even smaller countries like Belgium, able to colonise much larger lands and populations? Why were they more powerful?

Because the Belgians were facilitated by other European countries who saw the colonisation of Africa as a handy number. Europe industrialised and developed rapidly for a variety of reasons, chief amongst of which was the massive capital injection from the wholesale looting of gold and silver from South America.

FTA69

The usual charmers out with tropes about spear chuckers and black people being less intelligent.

Dopey sh*t if there ever was.

Richard Hillman

FTA69 wrote: »

Because the Belgians were facilitated by other European countries who saw the colonisation of Africa as a handy number. Europe industrialised and developed rapidly for a variety of reasons, chief amongst of which was the massive capital injection from the wholesale looting of gold and silver from South America.

And why didn't they do that to their own lands, Europe and South America? They didn't not do because they're sound.

goat2

imme wrote: »

The recent protests cost the country $1.2bn in damage.

The state agreed with religious groups that she cannot leave the country.

Her lawyer has fled Pakistan reportedly.

I won't be going to Pakistan on my holidays.

She is forever in danger of being murdered,
She has children and family there.
so very dangerous

Odhinn

Based and Red Pilled wrote: »

More intelligent, stronger people.

Wasn't belgium easily conquered by Germany in two world wars? That must mean the Germans are some sort of "superior race" by your logic. Whereever have I heard that notion before......

imme

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why were countries, even smaller countries like Belgium, able to colonise much larger lands and populations? Why were they more powerful?

Industrialisation, weapons technology, lack of knowledge on behalf of their victims about Belgium's comparative numerical inferiority.

Odhinn

Based and Red Pilled wrote: »

Yeah the Germans were miles ahead of them in WWII, no question there.

Why did no african kingdom construct a navy to match the English, French or Spanish? Is it racist to merely ask a question?

No, it just suggests and ignorant and lazy world view. Read the following and get back to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

Odhinn

imme wrote: »

Industrialisation, weapons technology, lack of knowledge on behalf of their victims about Belgium's comparative numerical inferiority.

And the notion that belgium conquered some other state called "the congo" is fundamentally wrong. They conquered an area with various peoples that was later to be named the congo and set within borders defined by colonial powers with no consultation with the population therein.

Danzy

Pakistan will blow one day and either descend into civil war or full blown Islamist State.

Either way it will be a horrendous mess, look at the way it is now, but orders of magnitude worse.

I expect it will be a globally significant problem, 200 million people and it will have an impact in England.

There is no positive showing up to suggest otherwise.

NIMAN

What was the video about with people battering cars?

Danzy

FTA69 wrote: »

On the topic of Pakistan, the type of mad Islam being advocated there is a very, very new thing and is markedly distinct from the Islam being practiced there for the past thousand years dating back to the Mughals.

On Netflix there’s a show called Amongst the Believers about how this Salafist sh*t took off there. Massive Saudi investment into education there in the form of Madrassahs (Islamic schools) facilitating extremism; they offered free school places to boys from families who couldn’t afford the state school fees. Such to the point hundreds of thousands of people came out of these institutions radicalised and ended up forming an insurrectionary subculture.

I’m forever saying it, but whether it’s to do without East London or Pakistan or Morocco it comes back to the same source - f*cking Gulf oil money and Erdogan’s Turkey. But yet our governments are utterly determined to kiss their arses. That’s the row that needs to be had.

The Mughals were very strict in religious practice yes, Islam, all over the world is reverting back to the form as Mohammed practiced once more and it is causing problems but the Islamic world was in nearly all places obscenely strict 100 years ago.

Richard Hillman

Anyway back to Pakistan


The main issue is how do we retrieve or disarm the nukes. I would imagine their outdated nuclear weapons can be disarmed or shot down if they got into the wrong hands but the materials are still the materials.

KungPao

NIMAN wrote: »

What was the video about with people battering cars?

Nissan Leaf owners I think.

Odhinn

Danzy wrote: »

The Mughals were very strict in religious practice yes, Islam, all over the world is reverting back to the firm as Mohammed practiced once more and it is causing problems but the Islamic world was in nearly all places obscenely strict 100 years ago.

Not at all. The drive towards strict conservative sunni islam is largely the work of the Saudi state promoting their wahabbi sect.

Danzy

Odhinn wrote: »

Not at all. The drive towards strict conservative sunni islam is largely the work of the Saudi state promoting their wahabbi sect.

In Pakistan and India it was/is down to deobandism, who have spent near 80 years returning Islam to its principals.

Saudi Arabia added to this granted

BattleCorp

NIMAN wrote: »

What was the video about with people battering cars?

The cars committed blasphemy.

old_aussie

Odhinn wrote: »

...because they had advanced technology. Shooting men armed with sticks by way of a maxim machine gun is not the bravest or noblest of endeavours.

Unlike the Pakistani muslim men calling for/demanding the hanging of an innocent Christian girl...….where that certainly is a noble endeavour of muslims!

Odhinn

old_aussie wrote: »

Unlike the Pakistani muslim men calling for/demanding the hanging of an innocent Christian girl...….where that certainly is a noble endeavour of muslims!

You realise that there can be a multiple of evils, not just a simplistic dichotomy? No, probably not.

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Anyway back to Pakistan


The main issue is how do we retrieve or disarm the nukes. I would imagine their outdated nuclear weapons can be disarmed or shot down if they got into the wrong hands but the materials are still the materials.

I'd hardly call them 'outdated'. Appears they are developing a number of different delivery systems as well as battlefield nukes whose security is considered not the best by outside observers.

In the Worldwide Threat Assessment for 2018, US Director of National Intelligence Daniel R. Coats said, “Pakistan continues to produce nuclear weapons and develop new types of nuclear weapons, including short-range tactical weapons, sea-based cruise missiles, air-launched cruise missiles, and longer-range ballistic missiles. These new types of nuclear weapons will introduce new risks for escalation dynamics and security in the region”

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00963402.2018.1507796

JohnCleary

FTA69 wrote: »

On the topic of Pakistan, the type of mad Islam being advocated there is a very, very new thing and is markedly distinct from the Islam being practiced there for the past thousand years dating back to the Mughals.

On Netflix there’s a show called Amongst the Believers about how this Salafist sh*t took off there. Massive Saudi investment into education there in the form of Madrassahs (Islamic schools) facilitating extremism; they offered free school places to boys from families who couldn’t afford the state school fees. Such to the point hundreds of thousands of people came out of these institutions radicalised and ended up forming an insurrectionary subculture.

I’m forever saying it, but whether it’s to do without East London or Pakistan or Morocco it comes back to the same source - f*cking Gulf oil money and Erdogan’s Turkey. But yet our governments are utterly determined to kiss their arses. That’s the row that needs to be had.

Just watched this, thanks for sharing.

A MUST WATCH, imho.

JupiterKid

Pakistan is an utterly backward sh*thole that is gradually descending into another Islamofascist theocratic state.

The Islamic world is going backwards, it is regressing. It is obvious for all to see.

Danzy

JupiterKid wrote: »

Pakistan is an utterly backward sh*thole that is gradually descending into another Islamofascist theocratic state.

The Islamic world is going backwards, it is regressing. It is obvious for all to see.

A blunt but accurate assessment.

nlrkjos

I've worked in Pakistan back in the 90's and found the people I worked with to be the most horrible, bad mannered, arrogant people ever. But I've worked with Pakistani's outside of Pakistan and find them to be absolutely fantastic guys/gals to work with! Maybe that country puts too much pressure on them too conform to their "social norms".

Danzy

DChancer wrote: »

The world would be a better place without Religion.
Like most organized religions Islam has many sects/divisions, some are extreme and very dangerous, some are quite the opposite.

Two atheist societies, The USSR and People's Republic of China were the most murderous societies in a long time, Genghis khan, who let people believe or practice without fear or favour, killed up to 2 in every 100 alive at the time globally.

It is more complex than blaming it on religion or one thing.

BattleCorp

Danzy wrote: »

Two atheist societies, The USSR and People's Republic of China were the most murderous societies in a long time, Genghis khan, who let people believe or practice without fear or favour, killed up to 2 in every 100 alive at the time globally.

It is more complex than blaming it on religion or one thing.

When dealing with complex issues, start by chipping away at the problem. Getting rid of the religious fanatics is a pretty good place to start.

Shenshen

Shenshen wrote: »

It shines a light on the current culture of one country.
That says little enough about how Kaveh Billal from Iran is integrating into German society when he's attending his daughter's civil union ceremony where she's getting married to her long-term girlfriend (he's a friend of my mother's).

Congratulations to all concerned, I hope they are happy together and have a wonderful life for many many years to come. However I notice you say integrating to German society. Will they not be integrating into Iranian society anytime soon too?

donaghs

Danzy wrote: »

Two atheist societies, The USSR and People's Republic of China were the most murderous societies in a long time, Genghis khan, who let people believe or practice without fear or favour, killed up to 2 in every 100 alive at the time globally.

It is more complex than blaming it on religion or one thing.

True, but in the case of Pakistan, from the slightly more secular and stable time of Jinnah and Ali Khan to the present day, its clear that overriding problem there is religion. It poisons all attempts at modernity and tolerance.

FTA69

We need to be secular, sometimes aggressively so. That means restricting funding abroad going into certain mosques and madrassahs. A huge of amount of Islamic and Jewish faith schools are a total disaster educationally; there is no need for them - or Christian schools for that matter, if people want to instill religion into their kids they can do so on their own time.

Someone above was giving out about the Soviets but they had absolutely the correct position on state secularism. In fact many of the socialist-leaning Arab and Muslim states saw the need for modernisation and progressiveness and fought hard to achieve it. Islamism was actively funded and promoted in these places by countries such as the USA et al who wanted to undermine governments in places like Egypt and Afghanistan.

Shenshen

Deleted User wrote: »

Congratulations to all concerned, I hope they are happy together and have a wonderful life for many many years to come. However I notice you say integrating to German society. Will they not be integrating into Iranian society anytime soon too?

I was replying to someone saying "How anyone thinks that people of this belief can integrate into western culture is beyond me."
I'm not sure you'd classify Iran as a western culture?

But if you're asking if they've broken off all contact to family and friends in Iran, they haven't.

Mutant z

Its islamic thats all you need to know.

Danzy

donaghs wrote: »

True, but in the case of Pakistan, from the slightly more secular and stable time of Jinnah and Ali Khan to the present day, its clear that overriding problem there is religion. It poisons all attempts at modernity and tolerance.

Correct

Danzy

donaghs wrote: »

True, but in the case of Pakistan, from the slightly more secular and stable time of Jinnah and Ali Khan to the present day, its clear that overriding problem there is religion. It poisons all attempts at modernity and tolerance.

Correct

Ipso

FTA69 wrote: »

We need to be secular, sometimes aggressively so. That means restricting funding abroad going into certain mosques and madrassahs. A huge of amount of Islamic and Jewish faith schools are a total disaster educationally; there is no need for them - or Christian schools for that matter, if people want to instill religion into their kids they can do so on their own time.

Someone above was giving out about the Soviets but they had absolutely the correct position on state secularism. In fact many of the socialist-leaning Arab and Muslim states saw the need for modernisation and progressiveness and fought hard to achieve it. Islamism was actively funded and promoted in these places by countries such as the USA et al who wanted to undermine governments in places like Egypt and Afghanistan.

You mean that religion would distract them from being a good worker/robot?

milehip

It'll all fake news and for the op to suggest otherwise make them an islamaphobe, they probably think North Korea isn't a socialist paradise.

imme

milehip wrote: »

It'll all fake news and for the op to suggest otherwise make them an islamaphobe, they probably think North Korea isn't a socialist paradise.

What is fake news?

The photos of Pakistani men with posters saying "Hang the Asia".

If it wasn't so absolutely incredible it would be so so funny.
When you have a country where people value memorisation of religious texts over education you will have these problems.

Recent deals with China to promote development of ports in Pakistan might go some way to develop the country.
China won't be too worried about that as all they want are the raw materials.

Backward backward country.