Glanbia's new winter milk ,liquid contract Scheme

Mortelaro

From what I've read current liquid contracts end forever from the end of March 19
Next winter,you can enter the new scheme on a 5 year liquid MSA with a year 3 review
Premium price is around 8c a litre for 4 mths so no premium in October or march
There's also no premium for the other 8 month's

All winter milk suppliers are eligible it seems for this one new unified scheme
Min Supply into it is 650 litres a day
Its not clear whether there's an upper limit or if all milk supplied in those 4 months gets the premium

For current liquid suppliers,there's an exit scheme of compensation based on the litres in your current contract
For a 500 litre contract, the figure is about €11000 with a gradual transition period where you get around 6c a litre in nov Dec of 19 and Jan feb of 20 and again in Nov Dec of 20 but it ends there if it's the option to exit liquid as opposed to entering the new scheme you've chosen
That's to ease the transition for those going to spring milk

From my understanding this is a done deal but no one seems to be talking about it
I presume it must be discussed soon at local fmp meetings as current liquid lads would start bulling for Autumn next month
This is very short notice with a big decision to be made
Its frankly crazy that suppliers have not been notified

I'm sure there's more I haven't thought of so if anyone knows more about this,discussion would be useful
We've always done liquid here but it's important to remember a cow should produce the same amount of milk in 9 months,No matter when that 9 months is
But she'll do it a lot cheaper off grass (that's if you don't have a summer like this past one) So its decision time

whelan2

Where did you get this information. We should have been notified of this month's ago. Was going to start breeding here in 10 days. Straws bought etc. As usual supplier is last to know

Mortelaro

I got it from another liquid farmer,it's doing the rounds privately but nothing sent officially about it even from FMP which makes me wonder whether it's agreed
I'd first heard about the 4 month contract a few months ago but at that stage not much else
I hear ya on the 'last to know' element ,its wierd

Timmaay

I got something here on the post last week about the new 4month winter scheme, but it did not mention anything about liquid milk. It did however state that you would need to supply 20% of your years supply in them 4months, not a hope of me hitting that here, at 16% last year and will be less this year (that is despite me not actually taking the piss haha, I still always have supplied my daily liquid contract of 370l/day, but I made sure any expansion I did was with spring calved cows because zero point me supplying extra winter milk with no bonus). If I'm pushed outa Glanbias liquid milk it makes the leap to Strathroy even more tempting as I'll be up approximately 12k a yr with their spring only milk supply.

whelan2

Where did you get the letter from? I got nothing and anyone I've asked got nothing either. Time is ticking on now for serving cows for next year

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

Where did you get the letter from? I got nothing and anyone I've asked got nothing either. Time is ticking on now for serving cows for next year

Glanbia, I was just looking for it there now, but I think I might of thrown it in the bin because I knew I wouldnt be going for it haha

stretch film

It seems core liquid quota will be retained at a 6 mth premium which wont be far off current levels.
also there is scope for anyone with some scheme milk to expand or enter the new autumn calving scheme.

thats the positives , some negatives are
the new liquid msa is for 5 yrs .
there is a minimum volume to be supplied by end yr 2 as said earlier.
while the restructuring exit deal is attractive its only available until feb and it closes then.

glanbia have no desire to pay full winter premium on the current pool and this stick/carrot approach is the attempt at taking this high value milk out of farmers hands .

Sacrolyte

8 Cent premium is very weak at present day winter costs. Suppliers should be looking for a far better deal.
They obviously don’t care if suppliers pull the plug on winter milk. I reckon they think they will get all the milk they need from bigger spring suppliers milking on through the winter.

simx

Sacrolyte wrote: »

8 Cent premium is very weak at present day winter costs. Suppliers should be looking for a far better deal.
They obviously don’t care if suppliers pull the plug on winter milk. I reckon they think they will get all the milk they need from bigger spring suppliers milking on through the winter.

Reckon you’re right, I personally know of 6 or 7 lads that are milking through now that used to always have a dry period

Keepgrowing

OP is confusing the Winter milk scheme “Bailey’s contract” with Liquid supply.

The rules as outlined are for the new winter scheme not liquid.

This is why liquid only farmers wouldn’t have gotten any correspondence

whelan2

Keepgrowing wrote: »

OP is confusing the Winter milk scheme “Bailey’s contract” with Liquid supply.

The rules as outlined are for the new winter scheme not liquid.

This is why liquid only farmers wouldn’t have gotten any correspondence

Is it not running a bit late tjhough to be letting liquid farmers know the score before starting orgainising breeding for autumn 2019?

Keepgrowing

whelan2 wrote: »

Is it not running a bit late tjhough to be letting liquid farmers know the score before starting orgainising breeding for autumn 2019?

It’s not for the liquid suppliers, it’s the new winter scheme and it’s well known for 5-6 months now. Old news

whelan2

Keepgrowing wrote: »

It’s not for the liquid suppliers, it’s the new winter scheme and it’s well known for 5-6 months now. Old news

text message from fmp on 18/10 new agreement reached on liquid milk to start 1st oct 2019 contains new restructuring scheme . All local FMP groups will hold info meetings asap . Considering it's about 2 years since our last loacl fmp meeting i wont hold my breath

Keepgrowing

whelan2 wrote: »

text message from fmp on 18/10 new agreement reached on liquid milk to start 1st oct 2019 contains new restructuring scheme . All local FMP groups will hold info meetings asap . Considering it's about 2 years since our last loacl fmp meeting i wont hold my breath

I thought FMP met very regularly?

whelan2

Keepgrowing wrote: »

I thought FMP met very regularly?

Not locally. I complained a few years ago was going to stop my subs. There were a few meetings after that. Tbh I'm too busy to be going to every meeting for every cause but if there was an fmp meeting I'd go.

Mortelaro

Keepgrowing wrote: »

OP is confusing the Winter milk scheme “Bailey’s contract” with Liquid supply.

The rules as outlined are for the new winter scheme not liquid.

This is why liquid only farmers wouldn’t have gotten any correspondence

The document I have in front of me is an agreement between FMP and Glanbia
Afaik FMP do not represent Bailey's contract
It clearly mentions the liquid deal currently in place
Nowhere does it mention Bailey's contract so you are incorrect
Further a text has gone out tonight to liquid contract suppliers to attend their next fmp meeting where it's to be explained
I'm presuming you're not a member of FMP ?

Keepgrowing

Mortelaro wrote: »

The document I have in front of me is an agreement between FMP and Glanbia
Afaik FMP do not represent Bailey's contract
It clearly mentions the liquid deal currently in place
Nowhere does it mention Bailey's contract so you are incorrect
Further a text has gone out tonight to liquid contract suppliers to attend their next fmp meeting where it's to be explained
I'm presuming you're not a member of FMP ?

Thanks for that. It’s the same as our Baileys one so I thought you were confusing the two. Thanks for the clarification

Edit: you’re correct FMP not involved in winter contract

whelan2

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Thanks for that. It’s the same as our Baileys one so I thought you were confusing the two. Thanks for the clarification

Edit: you’re correct FMP not involved in winter contract

If new agreement on liquid milk is starting on 1st October 2019 should suppliers not have been informed before this of any changes? It's a while since I got that text on 18/10. Anyway I'm off to my leaba liquid quota to fill in the morning

Mortelaro

whelan2 wrote: »

Not locally. I complained a few years ago was going to stop my subs. There were a few meetings after that. Tbh I'm too busy to be going to every meeting for every cause but if there was an fmp meeting I'd go.

You'd really need to contact the FMP chairman to complain and the IFA
Our meetings are very regular and well attended
However nothing discussed in this thread has been discussed at mine yet,just speculated on
They just hadn't agreed anything
That's been almost detrimental because anyone thinking it worthwhile to switch to spring needs to take decisions on bulling now
I guess that didn't occur to anyone because the expectation was not many if any would
It's a big oversight but being a last minute deal because of hard ball a nuisance but understandable

whelan2

We will have a local fmp meeting next week. Each supplier needs to get a letter stating what their liquid quota is and what their options are ASAP.

Mortelaro

I've been informed that the payment is for 6 months to existing liquid contract holders ie they get paid the 8c in Oct and march and get upped to the min 650 litres if their current contract is less
On a 450 litre contract (100 gals a day) that's worth 18 euro's a day (less obviously if your old contract is larger)
18 times 180 days in the 450 litre example is worth around 3.5k
Subtract from that the loss of your .75 bonus on the other 6 month's apr to September and you'd be marginally better off

Unknown to me is allocation
Its not mentioned at all other than the assumption that there's a min of 650 a day

Also there's a 1c deduction on the 8c for 3 years to pay for lads to switch to spring that decide to

Haven't done maths there
Too busy today :O

stretch film

Mortelaro wrote: »

I've been informed that the payment is for 6 months to existing liquid contract holders ie they get paid the 8c in Oct and march and get upped to the min 650 litres if their current contract is less
On a 450 litre contract (100 gals a day) that's worth 18 euro's a day (less obviously if your old contract is larger)
18 times 180 days in the 450 litre example is worth around 3.5k
Subtract from that the loss of your .75 bonus on the other 6 month's apr to September and you'd be marginally better off

Unknown to me is allocation
Its not mentioned at all other than the assumption that there's a min of 650 a day

Also there's a 1c deduction on the 8c for 3 years to pay for lads to switch to spring that decide to

Haven't done maths there
Too busy today :O

Explain to me how lads that are less than 650l are to be upped to the minimum.

Buford T. Justice XIX

stretch film wrote: »

Explain to me how lads that are less than 650l are to be upped to the minimum.

Their payments get increased to the 650l level if lower than 650 litres, their contracts stay the same?

Mortelaro

stretch film wrote: »

Explain to me how lads that are less than 650l are to be upped to the minimum.

To be honest it's as clear as mud
Min supply is 650 litres but it is not clear if you're below that now,that you get paid the 8c(actually 7c for 3 years when the restructuring levy is off) on the balance or on all the milk you supply

I took it if in the new scheme that everything you supply is paid liquid as long as you do a min 650 litres a day

But it's not even clear in what I'm reading if that 650 applies to legacy lads

Will know more after our local fmp meeting

Timmaay

I hear teagasc have approved funding for a research PhD study on how to bloody understand the glanbia milk price structure

Mooooo

Not glanbia but sounds like the minimum they want is 650 a day from each supplier, and possibly then any amount over the agreed winter volume will just get standard price. ? You'd think the summer was the time for the info to be put out there

GrasstoMilk

Mooooo wrote: »

Not glanbia but sounds like the minimum they want is 650 a day from each supplier, and possibly then any amount over the agreed winter volume will just get standard price. ? You'd think the summer was the time for the info to be put out there

The exact same thing happened last year with winter milk and the Bailey's contract. Christmas week letters were sent out saying that the contracts were changing. My folks knew I wasn't interested in a split calving hers for a long time and we didn't sign up to the new scheme but a bit of notice would have been welcome really. I was going to stick at it for another year or 2 but when you had to sign up for 5 years it didn't suit me.
The transition this year will be tough, but were sending out more milk than this time last year atm so that's a help. Calving is starting around Jan 20th so hopefully we'll get milk out the gate fairly promptly

mahoney_j

I must be the only fool considering/in the process of going calving and milking for liquid milk ......not with glanbia mind I hear lots talking about getting out of it ,some actually do but lots stuck at it for various reasons .on a bad milk price year an argument I often hear is that a good liquid/winter contract is the difference beteween an ok year and poteintal disaster ..

Mooooo

Only 2 left in our group at winter milk, 4 of us exited in the last year or two, not just dairygold one other was in a clona scheme which would have been better paying. Depends on the prices offered etc or if you find your buying in feed anyway the cost differential reduces. Mj perhaps with your fragmentation it may work out but one of the other issues is different groups of stock and managing them. If I was going continuing in winter milk I would have 4 weeks calving in Oct and 8 weeks in spring and keep it at that.
Edit just on the bad milk price year, 23 or 24 base, the extra feed, work, time etc will still have winter milk under the break even point.

mahoney_j

Mooooo wrote: »

Only 2 left in our group at winter milk, 4 of us exited in the last year or two, not just dairygold one other was in a clona scheme which would have been better paying. Depends on the prices offered etc or if you find your buying in feed anyway the cost differential reduces. Mj perhaps with your fragmentation it may work out but one of the other issues is different groups of stock and managing them. If I was going continuing in winter milk I would have 4 weeks calving in Oct and 8 weeks in spring and keep it at that.
Edit just on the bad milk price year, 23 or 24 base, the extra feed, work, time etc will still have winter milk under the break even point.

My main reasons are to spread workload and provide more hours (and time off for me)for lad I currently have sheds ,parlour all in place

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

My main reasons are to spread workload and provide more hours (and time off for me)for lad I currently have sheds ,parlour all in place

Once you have 2 distinct calving groups you're flying. Calving interval of 371 here on latest report.

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

Once you have 2 distinct calving groups you're flying. Calving interval of 371 here on latest report.

369 here 90% 6 week calving ,100% just under 11 weeks .a 6/8 week calving season from early October would be plan with nothing only replacement heifer calves kept from autumn group .your 100% correct on 2 distinct calving blocks

degetme

mahoney_j wrote: »

369 here 90% 6 week calving ,100% just under 11 weeks .a 6/8 week calving season from early October would be plan with nothing only replacement heifer calves kept from autumn group .your 100% correct on 2 distinct calving blocks

I've been following your advice and ideas for a few years now and I think you have the perfect system. why change when what you have is going so well?

Timmaay

Mooooo wrote: »

Only 2 left in our group at winter milk, 4 of us exited in the last year or two, not just dairygold one other was in a clona scheme which would have been better paying. Depends on the prices offered etc or if you find your buying in feed anyway the cost differential reduces. Mj perhaps with your fragmentation it may work out but one of the other issues is different groups of stock and managing them. If I was going continuing in winter milk I would have 4 weeks calving in Oct and 8 weeks in spring and keep it at that.
Edit just on the bad milk price year, 23 or 24 base, the extra feed, work, time etc will still have winter milk under the break even point.

Similar change in our here, the only lads sticking out autumn calving are the older farmers who are happy enough with the extra workload once its spread out and doesn't put them under massive pressure compact spring calving. If someone told me they would pay me a no strings 20k bonus to go back split calving I probably would say no haha, calving in the spring and then milking tad rest the yr is well enough farming for me.

stretch film

Timmaay wrote: »

Similar change in our here, the only lads sticking out autumn calving are the older farmers who are happy enough with the extra workload once its spread out and doesn't put them under massive pressure compact spring calving. If someone told me they would pay me a no strings 20k bonus to go back split calving I probably would say no haha, calving in the spring and then milking tad rest the yr is well enough farming for me.

New scheme requires cow's calving in the autumn.

Panch18

mahoney_j wrote: »

I must be the only fool considering/in the process of going calving and milking for liquid milk ......not with glanbia mind I hear lots talking about getting out of it ,some actually do but lots stuck at it for various reasons .on a bad milk price year an argument I often hear is that a good liquid/winter contract is the difference beteween an ok year and poteintal disaster ..

Now there a post I didn’t expect to see coming from you Mahoney!!!

Coolfresian

mahoney_j wrote: »

I must be the only fool considering/in the process of going calving and milking for liquid milk ......not with glanbia mind I hear lots talking about getting out of it ,some actually do but lots stuck at it for various reasons .on a bad milk price year an argument I often hear is that a good liquid/winter contract is the difference beteween an ok year and poteintal disaster ..

I think it d be a great descion and u won't regret it. I've a winter contract with glanbia. Calving 35/40% of the herd from mid sept to late October every year. I'd be very very slow to give it up. Workload is spread out and calving outdoors in conditions like this sept/Oct was brilliant. The bonus does pay. Imo if doing it u need to do it in a reasonably large and committed way with 2 distinct groups within your herd.

GrasstoMilk

Coolfresian wrote: »

I think it d be a great descion and u won't regret it. I've a winter contract with glanbia. Calving 35/40% of the herd from mid sept to late October every year. I'd be very very slow to give it up. Workload is spread out and calving outdoors in conditions like this sept/Oct was brilliant. The bonus does pay. Imo if doing it u need to do it in a reasonably large and committed way with 2 distinct groups within your herd.

Yes I would agree. It needs to be a decent number of cows 40% I would say. Other wise it's just not worth it. Done it here and yeah the cash flow is great but it's the constant work load that I hated. If we were at it this year I would just find it tough going after the year just gone. No breaks at all. The plan is to milk on up till Christmas, start calving around Jan 20th and have a nice shot of milk going out by the first week of Feb. Work hard for the first 6 months of the year and be able to take it easier for the rest of the season.
Another thing I found was that I was down 2or 3 paddocks of grass due to dry cows. Grand if you're stocked low on the MP but if you're up over 3 you will miss those 3 paddocks when building grass or on the last round. You'd want land away from the parlour or else put them inside while dry = extra work.
You also have a group of cows at full tilt in the spring, you need lots of grass just to keep them going plus lots of quality feed in the yard

yewtree

A few lads around me doing liquid at a bit of scale and they seem to be doing alright. The big question going forward is will coops give suppliers sufficient contracts to make it worthwhile. There is an awful lot of uncontracted milk going in over winter months. And the coops know it's guaranteed supply as it is coming from herds with spread out calving.

whelan2

Has anyone been at any of these local meetings yet? There's 4 this week and 4 next week apparently. What's the thoughts on it all?

Mortelaro

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Yes I would agree. It needs to be a decent number of cows 40% I would say. Other wise it's just not worth it. Done it here and yeah the cash flow is great but it's the constant work load that I hated. If we were at it this year I would just find it tough going after the year just gone. No breaks at all. The plan is to milk on up till Christmas, start calving around Jan 20th and have a nice shot of milk going out by the first week of Feb. Work hard for the first 6 months of the year and be able to take it easier for the rest of the season.
Another thing I found was that I was down 2or 3 paddocks of grass due to dry cows. Grand if you're stocked low on the MP but if you're up over 3 you will miss those 3 paddocks when building grass or on the last round. You'd want land away from the parlour or else put them inside while dry = extra work.
You also have a group of cows at full tilt in the spring, you need lots of grass just to keep them going plus lots of quality feed in the yard

How is your turnover and costs since the shift,up or down?
Are you milking more cows now all spring?
Has the output from your winter number and overall number gone up or down or stayed the same since the switch?

Leaving aside the cost of this extreme year,would you think you are making more profit?
Do you cream off a few grand from April to August to cover the two dry months?

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Yes I would agree. It needs to be a decent number of cows 40% I would say. Other wise it's just not worth it. Done it here and yeah the cash flow is great but it's the constant work load that I hated. If we were at it this year I would just find it tough going after the year just gone. No breaks at all. The plan is to milk on up till Christmas, start calving around Jan 20th and have a nice shot of milk going out by the first week of Feb. Work hard for the first 6 months of the year and be able to take it easier for the rest of the season.
Another thing I found was that I was down 2or 3 paddocks of grass due to dry cows. Grand if you're stocked low on the MP but if you're up over 3 you will miss those 3 paddocks when building grass or on the last round. You'd want land away from the parlour or else put them inside while dry = extra work.
You also have a group of cows at full tilt in the spring, you need lots of grass just to keep them going plus lots of quality feed in the yard

If you get a repeat of spring 18 your up s**t creek though, calving no cows till early March this year given weather patterns and land type here it maddness calving cows in February when they in all likelyhood won’t see grass till late March...

blackdog1

mahoney_j wrote:

I must be the only fool considering/in the process of going calving and milking for liquid milk ......not with glanbia mind I hear lots talking about getting out of it ,some actually do but lots stuck at it for various reasons .on a bad milk price year an argument I often hear is that a good liquid/winter contract is the difference beteween an ok year and poteintal disaster ..

Has its ups and downs. Only thing I would strongly suggest is that you have a separate shed/area for putting autumn calves in January and you don't have spring calves in the same shed as it will increase disease risk. I'm currently coverting a bay in my straw shed into a pop up holding pen for autumn calves so that when the straw is out of that bay it's not going to waste. Also you'd want to be using the best teat dip, lime and have a good weekly cubicle disenfectant routine.

On the plus side you won't be in such a mad rush in the spring and autumn calves are the best calves you ever raised especially if your on a calf to beef system.

Oh and good luck

GrasstoMilk

Mortelaro wrote: »

How is your turnover and costs since the shift,up or down?
Are you milking more cows now all spring?
Has the output from your winter number and overall number gone up or down or stayed the same since the switch?

Leaving aside the cost of this extreme year,would you think you are making more profit?
Do you cream off a few grand from April to August to cover the two dry months?

Only leaving it this winter so I can't answer any of those yet.
Were going to be milking more cows yes so our turn over will be more and hoping to milk majority of the herd for 300 days as we were to get full potential from every cow
Protein and bf are better atm with no fresh cows dragging it down but it might be worse in the spring with a glut of fresh calving cows so might be no better off there

GrasstoMilk

jaymla627 wrote: »

If you get a repeat of spring 18 your up s**t creek though, calving no cows till early March this year given weather patterns and land type here it maddness calving cows in February when they in all likelyhood won’t see grass till late March...

Will you not have to milk those cows into January before dry off? You'll need good quality feed for what are effectively going to be stale cows? Would it not be better to calve in late Jan/early Feb and feed fresh cows and let them off to grass when ever you can

Timmaay

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Done it here and yeah the cash flow is great but it's the constant work load that I hated.

Even the cash flow argument I absolutely do not buy, once you are expanding away in an efficient manner (which the majority of grass based family farms who are adding numbers without having to employ any fulltime labour are), the extra profits from increased output will massively overshadow the less steady nature of your income (10big milk cheques definitely better than 12 average one), in any case getting paid across 10months of the yr is much much better than most tillage or beef farmers who have to rely on say just 3 big payments the back end of the year.

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Will you not have to milk those cows into January before dry off? You'll need good quality feed for what are effectively going to be stale cows? Would it not be better to calve in late Jan/early Feb and feed fresh cows and let them off to grass when ever you can

Still doing 1.95 kgs ms here at the minute, usually average 1.8kgs in December and 1.7kgs into January, a hell of a lot easier to keep “stale cows going indoors” then fresh calving cows

mahoney_j

degetme wrote: »

I've been following your advice and ideas for a few years now and I think you have the perfect system. why change when what you have is going so well?

No such thing as the perfect system !!!!!!,I think ....I’m pretty much stocked to max on milk block ,none or very little hope of getting more land next to milk block ,zero interest in long term z grazing .if I can get a decent enough size liquid quota and keep as diligent calving period in autumn as in spring I believe it will be profitable .my main feed will be high quality grass silage ,nuts fty in parlour , brewers/moist grain and beet .no plans to buy diet feeder even tho I’d like one ,only extra bit of kit will be beet bucket

Coolfresian

mahoney_j wrote: »

No such thing as the perfect system !!!!!!,I think ....I’m pretty much stocked to max on milk block ,none or very little hope of getting more land next to milk block ,zero interest in long term z grazing .if I can get a decent enough size liquid quota and keep as diligent calving period in autumn as in spring I believe it will be profitable .my main feed will be high quality grass silage ,nuts fty in parlour , brewers/moist grain and beet .no plans to buy diet feeder even tho I’d like one ,only extra bit of kit will be beet bucket

The big thing imo is being set up correctly to maximize the system and have a big volume. Are u getting a contract? I wouldn't do winter milk without the bonus myself. Have a feed to yield in parlour here and feed beet as well. Beet is great for driving up the milk solids. The early calves are a great bonus for the finishing side of the farm and worth extra if selling this time of year too. A big relief labour wise to have 40% of the herd calved before spring and nice milk cheques this time of year too.

Mooooo

See what winter bonus is available and work back from there. Keep it simple too. Other issues would be cow's bulling inside and having space for them to do so. As said above having extra calf space even over and above what you need to ensure disease risk is minimised as sheds have more pressure on. And while calving outside in a good autumn is ideal it is as likely they may be inside calving as out with the way weather comes. Drying off aut calvers can allow you to build cover in the autumn but increases demand in the spring significantly as they will have full appetites. In your situation with outside blocks it may well pay off. The other thing, dunno if it's an issue with your part of the country, is if there is a tb breakdown etc, and managing extra stock if it rolls into the calving periods etc. Milking thru Xmas as well on the home front, it's different when fresh calvers and calves are there as well, adds the extra bit of work.

farisfat

I don't think I could milk cows 365 days...I like my 4 or 5 weeks to put on a belly and spend lots of time with family.