What is your impression of Aspergers syndrome?

Zorya

Wibbs wrote: »

Thing is it's less about them and about easy engagement with the group. This babble is the social glue that has a major bonding effect in a group. Most people get this instinctively.

And some people can be so damn good at that small talk that glues life together, they make into an art form, life's gifted actors who play the small walk-on parts with beautiful perfection. Of course not all the small talk is interesting or remarkable but I love meeting people who have that ability to use ''babble'' to instantly make substance out of what was previously insubstantial. It has its own poetry.

CinemaGuy45

Believe it or not, we do have a sense of humour and I find the NT way of thinking hard to understand and times I know it works bolt ways but people on the spectrum are in the minority.

I find this video very funny it is very exaggerated but it gets across the point perfectly.

suicide_circus

Wibbs

wexie wrote: »

I get most of that at some level, I just don't quite understand how exchanging mindless facts about the weather or some news presenters outfit is supposed to help me establish that someone isn't a loonie, it's more likely to do the opposite to be honest.

I would say Wex it helps establish loony or normal precisely because it is mindless. You establish rapport on mutually and socially agreed safe inanities. If that works out you may go onto more useful stuff, or may not. There's no rule.

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Might have been helpful if this had have been explained to me and others years ago.

Of the two guys I mentioned earlier with Aspergers, the first lad never really got it, but wasn't as awkward. The second guy spotted this himself early on and worked on it and he nearly always came across as "normal". Funny enough among his friends he didn't bother with it and reverted to "odd" I think it was tiring for him TBH, what with having to concentrate to do what comes instinctively to most.

Zorya

On the subject of the medicalisation of conditions, I do think this is relevant with aspergers. Not all of course, or even most, but it is a fashionable diagnosis and if a child is functioning reasonably well overall it is probably best to leave them be themselves. As a child I was painfully shy, silent, overly imaginative and so sensitive emotionally and physically that it was distressing for me and I'm sure others. My Da used to say ''You were born with your bladder beside your eyeballs!'' Even ordinary physical sensations felt hugely magnified, at least my reaction to them seemed disproportionate compared to others. But between my Da and life gradually toughening me up I learned to adapt. My youngest child was somewhat similar and certainly had some ''asperger'' traits, but I let them be themselves. They are perfectly content being somewhat more sensitive and reserved as an adult than is considered socially acceptable, and even use their emotional perceptiveness to their advantage. Yes, there are people with autism that need help, but left alone to develop to be their own natural selves most people just range along a very broad spectrum called human.

HappyAsLarE

Back in my day, some kids were justa wee bit loose in the head, now they are diagnosed with a disorder.

Wanderer78

I asked for a super power such as x-ray vision, but all I got was aspergers, beggers can't be chosers I guess

CinemaGuy45

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I asked for a super power such as x-ray vision, but all I got was aspergers, beggers can't be chosers I guess

Did you not even get the webbed toes?

Calhoun

Zorya wrote: »

On the subject of the medicalisation of conditions, I do think this is relevant with aspergers. Not all of course, or even most, but it is a fashionable diagnosis and if a child is functioning reasonably well overall it is probably best to leave them be themselves. As a child I was painfully shy, silent, overly imaginative and so sensitive emotionally and physically that it was distressing for me and I'm sure others. My Da used to say ''You were born with your bladder beside your eyeballs!'' Even ordinary physical sensations felt hugely magnified, at least my reaction to them seemed disproportionate compared to others. But between my Da and life gradually toughening me up I learned to adapt. My youngest child was somewhat similar and certainly had some ''asperger'' traits, but I let them be themselves. They are perfectly content being somewhat more sensitive and reserved as an adult than is considered socially acceptable, and even use their emotional perceptiveness to their advantage. Yes, there are people with autism that need help, but left alone to develop to be their own natural selves most people just range along a very broad spectrum called human.

Who get's to decide or should decide if they are better to go it alone? Some parents legit put their children at a greater risk because they are afraid of a label.

Its a fine balance that we must walk on this one.

Wanderer78

CinemaGuy45 wrote:

Did you not even get the webbed toes?

Na, I got seriously shafted, they gave me bloody dyslexia to, can be a bit of crack I guess

CinemaGuy45

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Na, I got seriously shafted, they gave me bloody dyslexia to, can be a bit of crack I guess

Not to worry I got chronic heartburn as my extra special gift.:D

wexie

Calhoun wrote: »

Who get's to decide or should decide if they are better to go it alone? Some parents legit put their children at a greater risk because they are afraid of a label.

Its a fine balance that we must walk on this one.

I think ideally you should be able to turn to professionals for that question, as already pointed out though there seems to be more and more of a drive towards labeling and diagnosing which isn't always helpful. Add to that the fact you might be years going through the system before you get any actual useful help it's certainly not easy.

Zorya

Calhoun wrote: »

Who get's to decide or should decide if they are better to go it alone? Some parents legit put their children at a greater risk because they are afraid of a label.

Its a fine balance that we must walk on this one.

The opposite seems more true to me - people seek labels. Of course there are going to be outliers who neglect their children, but that is not what I am speaking about. I am not a fan of too much state intervention in the family though -or in the individual's life, for that matter. The state should usurp loco parentis only in very exceptional circumstances. But that's another story.

wexie

Zorya wrote: »

The opposite seems more true to me - people seek labels.

I don't know if that's all about the labels though, I think it might be more to do with the fact that people are uncomfortable with the unknown or different.

Once you can slap a label on something (or someone) it's no longer unknown, it's no a known quantity. Problem is many people end up with labels that are a poor fit or just plain wrong.

I think we (as a society) could do with focusing on just accepting 'different' and offering support where needed rather than putting labels on everything. And I do mean everything, everywhere you look it seems there are efforts being made to classify and quantify people, gender, politics, mental health etc. etc. etc.

mvl

Saw few "coming out" posts in here, this is good.
- might have guessed some, without getting into details... but maybe I have an online radar now, after my personal experiences .

Now ... I would be curious hearing some thoughts from NT partners/children: how is it to be married/in a partnership with someone with Asperger's; how are they as parents ?

Thanks,

Calhoun

Zorya wrote: »

The opposite seems more true to me - people seek labels. Of course there are going to be outliers who neglect their children, but that is not what I am speaking about. I am not a fan of too much state intervention in the family though -or in the individual's life, for that matter. The state should usurp loco parentis only in very exceptional circumstances. But that's another story.

I personally know of at least 2 cases where children are being left without the medical intervention they need because of the fear of labels and my wife who works in the field will tell you it happens allot.

Neglecting your children because you fear a label or state intervention should be seen on the same level as anti-vaxxers.

Sleeper12

Zorya wrote: »

On the subject of the medicalisation of conditions, I do think this is relevant with aspergers. Not all of course, or even most, but it is a fashionable diagnosis and if a child is functioning reasonably well overall it is probably best to leave them be themselves. As a child I was painfully shy, silent, overly imaginative and so sensitive emotionally and physically that it was distressing for me and I'm sure others. My Da used to say ''You were born with your bladder beside your eyeballs!'' Even ordinary physical sensations felt hugely magnified, at least my reaction to them seemed disproportionate compared to others. But between my Da and life gradually toughening me up I learned to adapt. My youngest child was somewhat similar and certainly had some ''asperger'' traits, but I let them be themselves. They are perfectly content being somewhat more sensitive and reserved as an adult than is considered socially acceptable, and even use their emotional perceptiveness to their advantage. Yes, there are people with autism that need help, but left alone to develop to be their own natural selves most people just range along a very broad spectrum called human.

When I was diagnosed as an adult in my 40s it wasn't to get counseling, grants or illness benefit. It was purely for myself. You can't believe the relief that comes with the diagnosis. It's like a jigsaw clicking into place. My life all of a sudden made sense.



I think you are very wrong. I think every person with suspected autism should be tested. Despite claims from other posters you won't be diagnosed with autism unless you are autistic. You can't "ask" or "buy" the diagnosis. It's a genuine standard test recognized worldwide.



Many autistic people have other issues inc depression, anxiety, A.D.D, Dyslexia & many, many more. Quite often it's only through one diagnosis that they pick up on others.

skepticalme

Autism diagnosis cannot be bought, really annoys me when people suggest it can or that parents want a diagnosis. In reality services are minimal to non existent and parents end up paying for as much private therapy as they can afford.
The common trait I think running through people with asd is anxiety which can affect them horrendously and if not helped can lead to depression, self harm etc.
I think people with no experience of dealing with asd don't realise that even 'mild' asd involves huge challenges for those affected.

One eyed Jack

Calhoun wrote: »

I personally know of at least 2 cases where children are being left without the medical intervention they need because of the fear of labels and my wife who works in the field will tell you it happens allot.

Neglecting your children because you fear a label or state intervention should be seen on the same level as anti-vaxxers.

While I do understand where you’re coming from, I think a loaded statement like that is quite frankly ludicrous, on a number of levels.

It’s not about neglecting children, it’s about rejecting the pathologisation of what the parents consider normal behaviours. If parents are considered to be neglecting their children because they don’t want their children being labelled with various conditions, then that does make way for the State to intervene and supplant the authority of the parents if they are successful in arguing that it is in the children’s best interests to do so (and they are indeed usually successful).

If for example, my mother had followed the advice she was given by experts at the time when I was diagnosed as a child with severe dyslexia, I imagine my life would have taken a very different path had my mother actually taken their advice and enrolled me in a ‘special’ school, instead of keeping me in a mainstream school. If the State had intervened and successfully argued that I should be taken into care and enrolled in a special school, that’s exactly where you’re heading when you would have determined that my parents were guilty of child neglect from your perspective.

They certainly weren’t, not from my perspective, and that’s why it was fairly annoying when I had my own child and plenty of clueless but well-meaning types pathologising his every behaviour, analysing his behaviours to the nth degree and suggesting all sorts of conditions, top of the list of course came aspergers and transgenderism. Still think neglecting your children because you don’t want them labelled should be regarded on the same level as people who refuse to vaccinate their children? I’ve no doubt Katherine Zappine for one will be only too happy to hear it.

wexie

skepticalme wrote: »

Autism diagnosis cannot be bought, really annoys me when people suggest it can or that parents want a diagnosis.

But, you can pay to see a private specialist in order to bypass the ludicrous waiting times in the public system.

Is that not what people were talking about?

ELM327

I've mentioned a few times on here I have asperger's co morbid with severe social anxiety.
Threads like this are great for the neurotypical folk to get an understanding of what it is like to live with a debilitating disorder that makes it feel like others communicating in "social norms" may as well be speaking martian!

wexie

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If for example, my mother had followed the advice she was given by experts at the time when I was diagnosed as a child with severe dyslexia, I imagine my life would have taken a very different path had my mother actually taken their advice and enrolled me in a ‘special’ school, instead of keeping me in a mainstream school.

Things have changed a little since whatever days you were in school though haven't they OEJ?

What if, in order for you to get the necessary supports to stay and succeed in a mainstream school it would have been necessary for you to have a diagnosis?

Cause that is the situation some parents find themselves in these days, child needs some extra help and support in school (for whatever reason that may be) and they're not likely to get it without a diagnosis.

While I believe that is not a good situation, I also think when that situation arises it's more important for the child to get those supports. Ideally of course that should be happening without a potentially harmful diagnosis being slapped on the child but sadly that's not really the current reality.

Sleeper12

wexie wrote:

But, you can pay to see a private specialist in order to bypass the ludicrous waiting times in the public system.

There are only a handful of people qualified to diagnosis autism in Ireland. Private or public. Your GP can't do this neither can most psychiatrists or psychologists. It is a very specialised field. Anyone willing to go private will tell you how difficult it is to actually find someone trained in diagnosing autism.

Anyone selling diagnosis would be ousted by the medical profession in no time

Buying a diagnosis is a myth usually spread by parents of a severely autistic child who can't get their head around that a high functioning autistic has the same diagnosis as a low functioning, inward & possibly valiant child. I base this opinion on talking to many parents and reading many threads here. It's usually parents who have been attacked by their own child who believes that a high functioning autistic shouldn't be classified as autistic

Sleeper12

ELM327 wrote:

I've mentioned a few times on here I have asperger's co morbid with severe social anxiety. Threads like this are great for the neurotypical folk to get an understanding of what it is like to live with a debilitating disorder that makes it feel like others communicating in "social norms" may as well be speaking martian!

Someone mentioned "Atypical" on Netflix. While it is a TV show it does (in a humorous way) what it is like for some autistic people & their families. Another good show where you can see what it is like for one particular autistic is "the good doctor"

ELM327

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Someone mentioned "Atypical" on Netflix. While it is a TV show it does (in a humorous way) what it is like for some autistic people & their families. Another good show where you can see what it is like for one particular autistic is "the good doctor"

Atypical is a great show and portrays very very well the problems faced due to ASD.

skepticalme

wexie wrote: »

But, you can pay to see a private specialist in order to bypass the ludicrous waiting times in the public system.

Is that not what people were talking about?

Yes if a child is on the ridiculous waiting hse waiting list for assessment, parents will go privately to get a diagnosis so the child can access services, the hse still do their own assessments on those children.
The implication earlier on the thread was that a certain psychiatrist hands out diagnosis for payment. He works privately but there is not the diagnosis for payment that was implied.

AndrewJRenko

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There are only a handful of people qualified to diagnosis autism in Ireland. Private or public. Your GP can't do this neither can most psychiatrists or psychologists. It is a very specialised field. Anyone willing to go private will tell you how difficult it is to actually find someone trained in diagnosing autism.

Anyone selling diagnosis would be ousted by the medical profession in no time

Buying a diagnosis is a myth usually spread by parents of a severely autistic child who can't get their head around that a high functioning autistic has the same diagnosis as a low functioning, inward & possibly valiant child. I base this opinion on talking to many parents and reading many threads here. It's usually parents who have been attacked by their own child who believes that a high functioning autistic shouldn't be classified as autistic

Wasn't there one particular consultant who was giving autism diagnoses for children after a telephone only consultation a few years back?

Gimme A Pound

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

The biggest autism Aspergers website and forum on the web is called Wrong Planet many including me feel we don't really fit into the world at all and we don't feel connected.

People tell us to be ourselves and that never goes well.:rolleyes:

Two people I've watched programmes about recently - The Unabomber and Vincent Van Gogh - apparently said this also: a feeling of being "outside" the standard social world, and trying to get in but encountering an impenetrable barrier.

El_Duderino 09

The OP is an odd one. Aspergers has a broad range of symptoms and can’t really be summed up by one single attitude.

My Mrs works with criminals and a good portion of them have sone form of Aspergers or autism. It changes the way a person understands the world so some people find it difficult to communicate with them.

Along with having a different understanding of the world, they also have people behave differently to them than other people. In fact they quite often require a different approach to get good 2way communication.

Life is complicated enough so it can’t be any easier if you don't get the things we take for granted like the subtleties of social interaction.

Hey rookie with autism are first and foremost people, so naturally they have a broad range of personality and predisposition. They range from people who can’t speak or perform basic tasks, to geniuses, to criminals to average people who might cone across as a bit odd in some circumstances.

The more awareness people have the more able we will be to accommodate people with Aspergers.

Sleeper12

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Wasn't there one particular consultant who was giving autism diagnoses for children after a telephone only consultation a few years back?

No.
It's not possible to diagnose over the phone. They need to see the patient. They look out for mannerisms, tics, eye contact etc.
There are standard tests that have to be done.

Even if someone gave a bogus diagnosis the health board carrys out their own tests eventually. The medical governing body would quickly weed out any giving false diagnosis for cash. They would treat this in the same way as a doctor selling valium to people who shouldn't have it.

AndrewJRenko

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No.
It's not possible to diagnose over the phone. They need to see the patient. They look out for mannerisms, tics, eye contact etc.
There are standard tests that have to be done.

Even if someone gave a bogus diagnosis the health board carrys out their own tests eventually. The medical governing body would quickly weed out any giving false diagnosis for cash. They would treat this in the same way as a doctor selling valium to people who shouldn't have it.

It was reported to me by people involved in the sector, maybe about five years ago. And yes, they were well aware of the need to see the patient in person, which was a major concern.

I think the NCSE and schools were obliged to accept the findings of the diagnosis in assessing provision of supports at the time.

Sleeper12

AndrewJRenko wrote:

It was reported to me by people involved in the sector, maybe about five years ago. And yes, they were well aware of the need to see the patient in person, which was a major concern.

I think you will find that they were wrong or simply made it up.

You'd have to have been through a diagnosis to understand that it's laughable to suggest that an over the phone is possible. It takes hours of face to face to be diagnosed.

tretorn

There is a film about living with Autism on in the IFI this Thursday (I think)

Mutant z

Sheldon Cooper.

Sleeper12

Mutant z wrote:

Sheldon Cooper.

Strange thing about Sheldons character is they have never come outright & said that he is autistic. They leave it up to the viewers to decide. Many watching this for over 10 years would be supprised to be told that he is autistic. They just see him as odd.

DublinWriter

Cutting a really, really long story short, my son was diagnosed as being on the spectrum aged three.

As a parent, you tend to blame yourself for everything. We tried to find out what happened - too much Aspartame? Not enough folic acid? Was it the 4D scan?

I took the Baron-Cohen AQ Test myself for a joke and scored really highly, meaning I'm effectively Aspergers myself.

It was only when my son started exhibiting certain traits that it unlocked memories of me doing the same things. From minor things such as running out of the room when the ads came on the TV, hand-washing, obsession with certain subjects, etc.

ABM (Advanced Behaviour Modification) was the key for him at that age.

I had a similar thing in the 70's - corporal punishment.

I 'script', i.e. watch people to see the ideal way to react in certain social circumstances and try and emulate myself. I find making eye contact almost to be physically painful, yet I've trained myself to do it over the years and sometimes I just need to pretend by looking at the speakers nose or mouth.

Zorya

wexie wrote: »

I don't know if that's all about the labels though, I think it might be more to do with the fact that people are uncomfortable with the unknown or different.

Once you can slap a label on something (or someone) it's no longer unknown, it's no a known quantity. Problem is many people end up with labels that are a poor fit or just plain wrong.

I think we (as a society) could do with focusing on just accepting 'different' and offering support where needed rather than putting labels on everything. And I do mean everything, everywhere you look it seems there are efforts being made to classify and quantify people, gender, politics, mental health etc. etc. etc.

I agree, wexie

Zorya

Mutant z wrote: »

Sheldon Cooper.

Bus pants. Surely you understand the need for bus pants?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbb66RM4NLs

begbysback

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Don't believe that for a second many stay single not a good way for breeding up their numbers.;)

The evolution angle of Aspergers is very interesting - my understanding is that those with some level of aspergers seem of a single nature given that they don't feel the social pressure of getting into a relationship for the sake of it, as many "normal" people would - not that they are incapable of it, far from the truth.

30 or 40+ years ago you could put forward the case that aspies were outcasts in society and therefore didn't appeal to the opposite sex, nowadays these are some of the most successful people in the world, and as such it could be argued that they are more appealing to the opposite sex, therefore increasing chances of passing on these genes.

Zorya

DublinWriter wrote: »

Cutting a really, really long story short, my son was diagnosed as being on the spectrum aged three.

As a parent, you tend to blame yourself for everything. We tried to find out what happened - too much Aspartame? Not enough folic acid? Was it the 4D scan?

I took the Baron-Cohen AQ Test myself for a joke and scored really highly, meaning I'm effectively Aspergers myself.

It was only when my son started exhibiting certain traits that it unlocked memories of me doing the same things. From minor things such as running out of the room when the ads came on the TV, hand-washing, obsession with certain subjects, etc.

ABM (Advanced Behaviour Modification) was the key for him at that age.

I had a similar thing in the 70's - corporal punishment.

I 'script', i.e. watch people to see the ideal way to react in certain social circumstances and try and emulate myself. I find making eye contact almost to be physically painful, yet I've trained myself to do it over the years and sometimes I just need to pretend by looking at the speakers nose or mouth.

Glad to hear your son is doing well.

I have this thing where I find that a lot of what is called aspergers (or other non-coping syndromes like ADHD etc) seems to me to be somehow quite a reasonable reaction to an abnormal situation. If you think about it the modern world as we know it is reasonably recent in evolutionary terms, and perhaps some people just feel inherently profoundly uncomfortable with certain modern aspects of life.

We evolved to be comfortable with small groups of well known, familiar people, and now in modern times we are thrust into large crowds regularly of people completely unknown to us, and we also have the constant awareness via media of the unimaginable press of other human beings on the planet - something of which few would have been aware through the whole time of our evolution.

We are surrounded by machinery and electronic devices, and the refresh rates on digital monitors can be very disconcerting to some, likewise TV stimulation is a reasonably new aspect of human life (in evolutionary terms). These make some people feel uncomfortable - and I do not specifically think this is abnormal - perhaps the people who are impervious to the hyper stimulation are the ones who have the problem, perhaps they are deficient in some areas of perception or vision etc?

We run our lives on ridiculous schedules regarding school and work, with little allowance made for human rhythms, natural cycles, the environment, our very existence as creatures bound intrinscially to a natural ecosystem. Some people find that stressful. Perhaps they are not the ones who have the problem? perhaps the people who can shut down enough to accommodate the basic fundamental insanity of modern life are the ones with the problem?

Our food is adulterated, our furniture, clothing, hygiene products, general purchases etc are often full of chemicals and weird stuff - maybe the people who react to this are the ones whose senses are working normally? Optimally even?

These are just some examples of a half maddened civilisation, which has little metaphysical grounding in the sense of a true quest for meaning and which almost has forgotten its raison d'etre, a civilisation based on mindless consumption, pleasure seeking, gauche materialism etc., and we wonder why we have more and more people who just feel like their electric circuits are fried from the inexplicable weirdness of it all.

Just a thought

ayux4rj6zql2ph

What are some of the obsessions/fixations that those diagnosed have?

Mine, numbers, anything to do with dates,times,reg numbers,phone numbers etc etc. I have been branded very very weird for it.

Sleeper12

Konnor Blue Gate wrote:

What are some of the obsessions/fixations that those diagnosed have?

I d have any myself but I throw myself 110 percent into things like my Business.

My son gets fixated on something for months or years and then drops that fixation & moves on to another one.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I d have any myself but I throw myself 110 percent into things like my Business.

My son gets fixated on something for months or years and then drops that fixation & moves on to another one.

I would be similar to your son in some areas.

Fair play on the business though

Sleeper12

Konnor Blue Gate wrote:

Fair play on the business though

If you are to be fixated on something why not something that tu a profit

god's toy

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I know your being sarcastic but the funny thing is your right.
Inane babbling about football scores and did ya see the state of ya man last night and so on.

Edit and they go on for ages talking a lot and saying very little.

Oh believe me. I know that only too well. But thankfully not all.

begbysback

Konnor Blue Gate wrote: »

What are some of the obsessions/fixations that those diagnosed have?

Mine, numbers, anything to do with dates,times,reg numbers,phone numbers etc etc. I have been branded very very weird for it.

Counting the duplicate posts

Seriously though, flags, numbers, avoiding cracks in the ground, games, punctuality, rules, generally how stuff works - apathy for locations, you will never find an aspie driving a taxi

One eyed Jack

wexie wrote: »

Things have changed a little since whatever days you were in school though haven't they OEJ?

What if, in order for you to get the necessary supports to stay and succeed in a mainstream school it would have been necessary for you to have a diagnosis?

Cause that is the situation some parents find themselves in these days, child needs some extra help and support in school (for whatever reason that may be) and they're not likely to get it without a diagnosis.

While I believe that is not a good situation, I also think when that situation arises it's more important for the child to get those supports. Ideally of course that should be happening without a potentially harmful diagnosis being slapped on the child but sadly that's not really the current reality.

While I believe that parents should receive every support necessary for their children to be educated in a mainstream school if that’s what the parents want, I find that State interventionist policies like the type that Calhoun was leaning towards are targeted almost exclusively at parents and their children on the lowest socioeconomic rungs of the social ladder.

I don’t believe that forcing diagnoses on children is spite of their parents is ever actually acting in the best interests of children. More often than not these policies are motivated by a political ideology than any genuine concern for children’s welfare.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

begbysback wrote: »

Counting the duplicate posts

Seriously though, flags, numbers, avoiding cracks in the ground, games, punctuality, rules, generally how stuff works - apathy for locations, you will never find an aspie driving a taxi

Very similar to myself there. You’re right I couldn’t be a taxi driver.

wexie

Zorya wrote: »

We run our lives on ridiculous schedules regarding school and work, with little allowance made for human rhythms, natural cycles, the environment, our very existence as creatures bound intrinscially to a natural ecosystem. Some people find that stressful. Perhaps they are not the ones who have the problem? perhaps the people who can shut down enough to accommodate the basic fundamental insanity of modern life are the ones with the problem?

Our food is adulterated, our furniture, clothing, hygiene products, general purchases etc are often full of chemicals and weird stuff - maybe the people who react to this are the ones whose senses are working normally? Optimally even?

While I personally think you may well be right in that assessment as it's largely how I feel about things, I'd also have to point out to you 'they' aren't the ones experiencing the problems are they?

Regardless of whether or not our societies and lives are structured in a completely bizarre way the fact remains that it is how they are structured.

It's not going to change so your options are essentially to either adjust and somehow learn to cope, or don't.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If you are to be fixated on something why not something that tu a profit

You’ll retire wealthy